infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Now how does that jive with the "leak" that OB saw Watson in the 1st preseason game and that made him want to start Watson but RS talked him out of it?
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All encompassing Bill O'Brien thread
- Thread starter False Start
- Start date
Now how does that jive with the "leak" that OB saw Watson in the 1st preseason game and that made him want to start Watson but RS talked him out of it?
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Don't remember asking you to do anything.
Just told you what I was going to do.
Hang on to your pessimism it suits you.
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
Oh ya as we all know preseason matters a lot.
houstonhurricane
Veteran
Don't remember asking you to do anything.
Just told you what I was going to do.
Hang on to your pessimism it suits you.
Typical Irish fan - always next year!
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Catholics vs criminals
banned1976
sleeper mode
No, you can whine and moan until your days end. Really constructive use of your time, uh-huh.
zshawn10
All Pro
YaDigg.. i digg(Coach OB voice) https://t.co/fvSG8J3x7q
— Deshaun Watson (@deshaunwatson) January 13, 2018
— Deshaun Watson (@deshaunwatson) January 13, 2018
TripleTap
Dead Wood
Times 2 for me. Not an O'B fan so far but hope that this change at GM and the obvious support for O'B brings about the overall change in this team and its fortunes. Let's get on to the off season. I want to see some wheeling and dealing outta the new GM/Coach duo.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Let's hope they don't push things trying to justify change.
Have a link showing that?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
If Smith actually pulled rank on Billy and instructed him to start a QB who was not the coachs preference then I can sure believe all the stories out there about how bad their relationship was.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Far more likely is the conflict was OB wanting to start his boy Savage without giving Watson a shot.
Rick has no power to instruct him to do that. Starting Savage is on OBrien.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
You can be a fan of your team/s and look forward to the next year, or be houstonhurricane.
I look forward.... and it seems that you would rather wallow in self imposed misery. Life's too short for me to do that.
Number19
Hall of Fame
This is all for the good - continuity and change. O'Brien and Smith had a strained relationship and one had to go.
It is almost unanimous on this board that the Texans lack overall talent at starting positions and depth, particularly on offense. By contract, this is on the GM.
The organization has now delt with this by hiring Gaine. Only time will tell if he can do the job, but by all accounts, he will have a better working relationship with O'Brien.
Having elected to go with change at the GM position, the organization has elected to go with continuity at the coaching position. With Smith as GM, I'm not at all certain that O'Brien had the players that he would have liked to have, and never had the opportunity to fully show what kind of offense he could put on the field.
Now, with the QB position settled (assuming Watson can come back near his past performance, and this is still in doubt) O'Brien is in the driver's seat.
This off season will be interesting, to see how O'Brien and Gaine address our deficencies. I'm hoping they take an aggressive approach.
It is almost unanimous on this board that the Texans lack overall talent at starting positions and depth, particularly on offense. By contract, this is on the GM.
The organization has now delt with this by hiring Gaine. Only time will tell if he can do the job, but by all accounts, he will have a better working relationship with O'Brien.
Having elected to go with change at the GM position, the organization has elected to go with continuity at the coaching position. With Smith as GM, I'm not at all certain that O'Brien had the players that he would have liked to have, and never had the opportunity to fully show what kind of offense he could put on the field.
Now, with the QB position settled (assuming Watson can come back near his past performance, and this is still in doubt) O'Brien is in the driver's seat.
This off season will be interesting, to see how O'Brien and Gaine address our deficencies. I'm hoping they take an aggressive approach.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
I think we found out last offseason that sitting idly by was not a good thing.
Let hope that all the experience Gaine had with some pretty good football minds pays off for the Texans.
I think the underlying issue to the Texans not being successful has left the building.
He may have tried to insert Watson as the starter by pointing out to Billy that the organization had made a major investment in the rookie (2 first round picks) and they needed to develop that investment ASAP.
Now we do know there's been a story that O'Brien once was so PO-d at former QB Mallet for over sleeping/missing a flight that he wanted him cut outright, but Smith stepped in and prevailed to keep Mallet
reminding Billy he needed Mallet for depth.
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
So was nutting over him from pre-draft evaluations to actually drafting him to holding onto him for years to holding onto him for years while other quarterbacks including Case Keenum came and went for years to propping him up during last offseason to propping him up during last training camp to propping him up during last preseason and inexplicably starting him over Watson in Week 1 despite the obvious talent gap and then finally pulling him after just one half because he's an incompetent ***** ass ***** who was so scared to be fired after Week 1 and his team was a complete ******* embarrassment in front of the home crowd which had been devastated by a monster storm just two weeks earlier
Of all the things that infuriate me about the continued unjustified fellating of this overrated **** stick, the notion that he's not responsible for the quarterbacks we had is perhaps the most infuriating.
ColeThornton
Waterboy
Congratulations to the Jacksonville Jaguars for proving once again the more common route to an AFC or NFC championship game is by hiring a new head coach instead of sticking with someone who has had 4 seasons and shown he can't get the job done. And for all the excuse makers, how ironic it was done out of the AFC South, with a good defensive team and a "trash" quarterback... you know, all the ingredients OB also had, when he was getting embarrassed in the playoffs. But take great comfort in the fact that the genius football owner that is Bob McNair has a five year plan to stay the course of mediocrity. Sad too, because with Smith leaving we had an opportunity for a clean sweep to change the anything is good enough culture that so many lap dog fans readily embrace.
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Maybe, but all of this really doesn't matter, all Watson missed was the 1st half of the 1st game. Then played historically well until he got injured playing behind a worse OL than Carr did. (Shocking that Watson would get hurt playing behind that OL.)
didn't Watson get hurt IN PRACTICE??
He took a shot in the the Seattle game that injured his knee and it completely tore in practice. CnD pointed out the hit in another thread but i cant remember which one
Dishman
Miss Ya Blue
Thanks! Watson isn't running all over the field evading pressure, but has some bad luck come his way.
I'd like to see that video.
Tejas Tom posted it above.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Yes. Non-contact practice. Watson and Kareem Jackson deny the fan diagnosis (no offense Doc) of in-game injury. But choosing in-game facllitates beotching about RS.
And now, if you missed, the 2017 OL was worse than the 2002 OL.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Yeah, b/c that 10 years span in between playoff appearances where they had top 10 draft picks every single frickin' year has nothing to do with their success now. All they did was hired Mike Mularkey....err.......Gus Bradley....err.....Doug Marrone & that put them over the top....yep, you got it all figured out you genius you!
Thanks Tejas.
from the referenced article....
Don't know how the O-line can be blamed when it was a RB - picking up a blitzer - involved in the play. Folks blaming the O-line for this hit have lost all credibility if they can't tell a RB from a OT or OG.
TejasTom
All Pro
Actually what I quoted above is the play the Texans' put out as possible injury. I spent some time looking for the play CND thought it could have been. Here are 2 posts where he discussed a different play than the Texans.
This was the play. Brown and Giacomini both lost their man
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banned1976
sleeper mode
I don't know the complete details of his contract extension. I don't know how much is guaranteed. And I can only guess why they gave him a 5 rather than 1 or 2 but it might of been because they have so many position coaching spots to fill. Not many coaches would quit their current jobs to work in environment where they could be fired within a year or 2. So this would give any coaching prospect a little piece of mind. Just a guess.
But McNair has given his comments on extending O'Brien for public consumption.
I will Doc's opinion over Jackson's.
Give me a link to Watson saying he wasn't injured in the Seattle game.
And YES the 2017 OL was the worst I've seen in a long time, worse than 2002.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...uth-of-firing-season-odds-against-no-1-seeds/
The same goes with GMs..
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Yeah, I don't play your fetch the negative game.
Tell you what, trying backing your crap with links. Then you can demand one from me.
And that exposes you as an opera queen.
Very mobile Carr took 76. Sir-sacks-a-lot and the wrecking crew took 54. 4.1 ypc v. 3.2 ypc.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Yeah, I don't play your fetch the negative game.
Tell you what, trying backing your crap with links. Then you can demand one from me.
And that exposes you as an opera queen.
Very mobile Carr took 76. Sir-sacks-a-lot and the wrecking crew took 54. 4.1 ypc v. 3.2 ypc.
who's sir sacks-a-lot? Savage lol.
Yeah, I don't play your fetch the negative game.
Tell you what, trying backing your crap with links. Then you can demand one from me.
And that exposes you as an opera queen.
Very mobile Carr took 76. Sir-sacks-a-lot and the wrecking crew took 54. 4.1 ypc v. 3.2 ypc.
Hey stats guy,
Tell me how many of those sacks were Carr running out of bounds behind the LOS? I can guarantee you it was more than 10. I remember me pulling my hair out when he did it 3 times in ONE game.
BTW, Doc's link backs me up, is it unreasonable to ask you for a link to backup what you're asserting?
It probably is, since most likely that link doesn't exist.
Keep on throwing crap against the wall and see what sticks. It's a good exercise and will help keep your mind sharp.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
12
Not sure if you don't get disproving a negative or just play it. There are a million links he got hurt in a non-contact practice session. You've seen them. This time all the reporters are wrong. How very convenient. They're infalilble if you can spin it as against RS and suck goat gonads if you can't.
This is going nowhere fast. I'm out
BTW, where did you come up with that number? I really want to know, because these are the types of stats that interest me.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I get all that, but Coughlin was just 1 move in a series of moves that the Jags made to get them where they are now; not the least of which is having top 10 picks every year & having 60 million dollars in cap space b/c you sucked for the last 10 years. You & your cronies ignore this though. & act like it just boils down to this 1 move, or that 1 move which is idiotic.
bOODRO87
Time Consumer
When you pick in the top 10 for around a decade and have oodles of money to spend in FA, you're bound to have success with a competent coach.
Congrats to the Jags. They had one of the best Free Agency signings I can think of. They're finally not a laughing stock.
It's about putting the right person in charge and letting him do his job. Taking risks in FA Bouye/Campbell were signed to huge contracts. Taking chances in the draft (Getting Jack in the 2nd rd with questions about his knee) Drafting guys like Hurns/Telvin Smith/Arby Jones late.
The Jags did a great job in the draft and decided to spend big $$$$ in FA and look at where they are now, even with Bortles at QB. Hopefully the Texans new GM will be willing to put in the work to find guys that can be impact players in rds 3-5 (That has certainly been lacking in the Texans org. You should checkout Doc's post on the Texans drafts.) and the owner lets the new GM take the risks in FA to add ELITE talent to the roster.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Casserly so take it FWIW.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Just for reference: The jags last 3 drafts. I see 13 key contributors on this year's team on that list...6 of those on the defense. All their others major difference makers they bought with that 60 million in cap space (Calais Campbell, Gipson, Buoye & Dareus). You can get that kind of talent when you're at the front of the draft every year. Law of averages you're going to be able to put something together at that point........unless you're the Browns & the Lions.
2017 1 Leonard Fournette 4 RB 2017 0 0 1 8 13 268 1040 9 36 302 1 LSU
2017 2 Cam Robinson 34 T 2017 0 0 1 8 15 Alabama
2017 3 Dawuane Smoot 68 DE 2017 0 0 0 2 16 Illinois
2017 4 Dede Westbrook 110 WR 2017 0 0 0 3 7 27 339 1 Oklahoma
2017 5 Blair Brown 148 LB 2017 0 0 0 2 13 0.5 Ohio
2017 7 Jalen Myrick 222 CB 2017 0 0 0 0 5 Minnesota
2017 7 Marquez Williams 240 FB 2017 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 Miami (FL)
2016 1 Jalen Ramsey 5 CB 2017 1 1 2 23 32 6 Florida St.
2016 2 Myles Jack 36 OLB 2017 0 0 1 14 32 2.5 UCLA
2016 3 Yannick Ngakoue 69 DE 2017 0 0 2 17 32 1 20.0 Maryland
2016 4 Sheldon Day 103 DT 2017 0 0 0 3 28 3.0 Notre Dame
2016 6 Tyrone Holmes 181 OLB 2017 0 0 0 1 15 1.0 Montana
2016 6 Brandon Allen 201 QB 0 0 0 Arkansas
2016 7 Jonathan Woodard 226 DE 0 0 0 Central Arkansas
2015 1 Dante Fowler 3 OLB 2017 0 0 0 6 32 12.0 Florida
2015 2 T.J. Yeldon 36 RB 2017 0 0 2 14 37 361 1458 5 116 815 2 Alabama
2015 3 A.J. Cann 67 G 2017 0 0 3 19 45 South Carolina
2015 4 James Sample 104 SS 2015 0 0 0 1 4 Louisville
2015 5 Rashad Greene 139 WR 2016 0 0 0 2 17 24 125 2 Florida St.
2015 6 Michael Bennett 180 DT 2017 0 0 0 1 14 0.5 Ohio St.
2015 7 Neal Sterling 220 WR 2017 0 0 0 2 30 18 192 0 Monmouth
2015 7 Ben Koyack 229 TE 2017 0 0 0 1 30 24 199 1 Notre Dame
2014 1 Blake Bortles 3 QB 2017 0 0 4 40 62 1318 2229 14928 90 64 223 1410 7 1 20 1 Central Florida
2014 2 Marqise Lee 39 WR 2017 0 0 2 17 53 1 2 20 1 0 15 99 0 171 2166 8 USC
2014 2 Allen Robinson 61 WR 2017 0 1 3 19 43 202 2848 22 Penn St.
2014 3 Brandon Linder 93 OL 2017 0 0 3 18 45 Miami (FL)
2014 4 Aaron Colvin 114 DB 2017 0 0 1 10 48 5.0 Oklahoma
2014 5 Telvin Smith 144 LB 2017 0 0 4 35 60 7 6.5 Florida St.
2014 5 Chris Smith 159 DE 2017 0 0 0 5 35 7.5 Arkansas
2014 6 Luke Bowanko 205 C 2017 0 0 1 7 39 Virginia
2014 7 Storm Johnson 222 RB 2014 0 0 0 0 6
2017 1 Leonard Fournette 4 RB 2017 0 0 1 8 13 268 1040 9 36 302 1 LSU
2017 2 Cam Robinson 34 T 2017 0 0 1 8 15 Alabama
2017 3 Dawuane Smoot 68 DE 2017 0 0 0 2 16 Illinois
2017 4 Dede Westbrook 110 WR 2017 0 0 0 3 7 27 339 1 Oklahoma
2017 5 Blair Brown 148 LB 2017 0 0 0 2 13 0.5 Ohio
2017 7 Jalen Myrick 222 CB 2017 0 0 0 0 5 Minnesota
2017 7 Marquez Williams 240 FB 2017 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 Miami (FL)
2016 1 Jalen Ramsey 5 CB 2017 1 1 2 23 32 6 Florida St.
2016 2 Myles Jack 36 OLB 2017 0 0 1 14 32 2.5 UCLA
2016 3 Yannick Ngakoue 69 DE 2017 0 0 2 17 32 1 20.0 Maryland
2016 4 Sheldon Day 103 DT 2017 0 0 0 3 28 3.0 Notre Dame
2016 6 Tyrone Holmes 181 OLB 2017 0 0 0 1 15 1.0 Montana
2016 6 Brandon Allen 201 QB 0 0 0 Arkansas
2016 7 Jonathan Woodard 226 DE 0 0 0 Central Arkansas
2015 1 Dante Fowler 3 OLB 2017 0 0 0 6 32 12.0 Florida
2015 2 T.J. Yeldon 36 RB 2017 0 0 2 14 37 361 1458 5 116 815 2 Alabama
2015 3 A.J. Cann 67 G 2017 0 0 3 19 45 South Carolina
2015 4 James Sample 104 SS 2015 0 0 0 1 4 Louisville
2015 5 Rashad Greene 139 WR 2016 0 0 0 2 17 24 125 2 Florida St.
2015 6 Michael Bennett 180 DT 2017 0 0 0 1 14 0.5 Ohio St.
2015 7 Neal Sterling 220 WR 2017 0 0 0 2 30 18 192 0 Monmouth
2015 7 Ben Koyack 229 TE 2017 0 0 0 1 30 24 199 1 Notre Dame
2014 1 Blake Bortles 3 QB 2017 0 0 4 40 62 1318 2229 14928 90 64 223 1410 7 1 20 1 Central Florida
2014 2 Marqise Lee 39 WR 2017 0 0 2 17 53 1 2 20 1 0 15 99 0 171 2166 8 USC
2014 2 Allen Robinson 61 WR 2017 0 1 3 19 43 202 2848 22 Penn St.
2014 3 Brandon Linder 93 OL 2017 0 0 3 18 45 Miami (FL)
2014 4 Aaron Colvin 114 DB 2017 0 0 1 10 48 5.0 Oklahoma
2014 5 Telvin Smith 144 LB 2017 0 0 4 35 60 7 6.5 Florida St.
2014 5 Chris Smith 159 DE 2017 0 0 0 5 35 7.5 Arkansas
2014 6 Luke Bowanko 205 C 2017 0 0 1 7 39 Virginia
2014 7 Storm Johnson 222 RB 2014 0 0 0 0 6
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Don't think its been a McNair restricting the GM & he has no problem signing off on spending money. The Watt, Ed Reed & Oz contracts show that. The issue has been with the GM himself & his moves/style..whatever you want to call it.
They also used Korn Ferry to help in their search (LINK). Coughlin was also among the - reported - candidates for the HC job (also in the link). Article doesn't say who made the hire and why. But I'm thinking [Speculation Alert -->] Coughlin had enough of the sidelines and preferred helping the GM put the team together.
Geez! Nine picks in 2014 and eight picks in 2015, and the usual seven picks in '16 and '17. Coughlin wasn't here until the 2017 season so somebody was doing a decent job in the FO before Tom C. got there