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Replacement GM thread

Mr teX said:
You guys are something else honestly. For 6-7 years alot of you bitched and moaned about how horrible Smith was & just knew without a shadow of a doubt that McNair was never going to relieve this dude of his duties. Of course McNair shits on all of you and does just that....& already ya'll are dooming the hire a fail before the guy has even undertaken his 1st order of business as a GM here b/c:

a. He was here as a scout when we made bad draft picks under the Smith regime.
b. He wasn't a splashy pick or the guy you wanted.
c. He was a guy that figured to have the upperhand on the job from the get go...."we need a true outsider!!!!!"....b/c yeah, that's full proof.
d. He's "the guy" of a HC that you wanted fired.
e. you didn't like the process & how it was undertaken

I blame sports media in this town. All these clowns on 610, 790 and 97.5 whom can't remain objective & continue to put all this drivel out there about this or that has alot of you in full conspiracy theory mode around here.....especially guys like Granato, Jason Braddock, Adam Clanton & Paul Gallant whom are just utter trash. & just based on how much of a surprise to everyone (including the media here) it was that Smith was stepping down due to his wife's situation, it's clear, none of those jackasses have a clue of what's going on over there on kirby. The only guys remotely worth listening to are basically all the former players...ND, Seth, DT & Sean Jones b/c many of them can give legit insights into what's going on, what's the thinking of coaches/players in terms of who really messed up on that 1 play that cost us the game, & who just flat out sucks. Those guys also tend to stay away from speculating & putting trash out there about what's going ...........like that clown Jerome Solomon likes to do.
Click to expand...

For the record I'm not against the Gaine hire.

Glad to see you are listening to Houston sports talk radio up in Austin. BTW, Jones /Johnson /Koch have been critical of the Texans organization. Does that make them dumba** reporters too?
 
Shishkabob said:
the only way I can really make sense of this is they are going all in on Obrien. bow if that's a smart move is yet to be determined. But they wanted to get the gm search done quickly to get Obriens contract extension done quickly so he can fill out his coaching staff. Mcnair wanted someone to be aligned with Obrien, obrien was really close with Gaine so that familiarity was there. the only other candidate with a close relation with Obrien was Caserio, they are close friends. Maybe mcnair just didn't want to wait a month to get his guy, maybe obriens said he wanted Gaine, maybe Obrien being close friends with caserio knows he wouldn't leave his job in NE which is similar to what McClay is in Dallas to come here so why wait? anyways it is all on Obrien now like it or not. hope it works
Click to expand...

This is my interpretation as well.

All in on OBrien.


Will be interesting to see what excuses he leaks now.
 
Max said:
Feel free to move this if a new thread gets started. My 2 cents on what our offseason focus should be: Have a 2 year plan on turning the team around – there’s enough holes that 1 offseason minus a 1st and 2nd round pick probably aren’t enough to address everything. Focus on offense this year and D the following year. Commit to a blocking scheme and find O-lineman that will succeed in it. My thoughts are to retain Martin, Davenport, Manz and Lamm and find 2 starting OG’s and an OT. Other priorities for this year is a backup qb that is able to work the same O if Watson goes down and a contributing TE. More likely to find starting caliber players in the draft 3rd round and later at OG and TE than T so get your T in FA and a developmental QB and DB later in the draft. There should be enough $ to find a starting DB in FA this year as well.

Draft priority: OG, OG, TE, QB, DB.

FA: T, CB (possibly backup QB)

This nets us a young OL on rookie contracts (save the T in FA) that can grow w/ Watson and hopefully be a foundation for the offense for 5 years +. It’s hard to imagine we couldn’t do better in the draft than Allen and Su’a-WhatTheF.

In theory, our O will be putting up points next year and maybe it’s good enough to make a run. If JJ and Mercilus are their old self (and KJ turns it around) – maybe the D is closer to 2016 than 2017 and we’re a playoff team that can score points and make a run. If not, work on D the following year by overhauling the DB’s and look for another pass rusher.
Click to expand...

OT/OG/OG/TE/ 2 CB's/S/RB/Edge

That about covers the needs section.

Man, Ricky was bad at his job.

What I would do is get the best FA gunner in FA that I could sign and draft a guy like Shaqueem Griffin. The ST's would be instantly improved and is a very cost effective way to put a better product on the field.
 
DocBar said:
I enjoy the intellectual energy I put into this. I've just learned to be like DB and not get overly passionate about it. I used to be Bulls on Parade and Jam Tex on steroids, Xs 10 before 35-3. The Oilers winning or losing would determine if I had a good or bad week. Now, it's engage in good conversation, learn something new, have your mind changed about something but never let it determine your happiness.
Click to expand...

35-3 broke me. And when I rebuilt myself into a happy, shiny Texans fan, I never forgot how lousy I felt for weeks after that loss.

And I just remember Seinfeld's line in response to a fan yelling "we won! we won!". His reply: "no, they won, and you watched". :fingergun:

ArlingtonTexan said:
Outside when life is too busy, if I get too emotional about these conversations, I will go way in some manner only posting if there some mod duty or news type article that needs posting.
Click to expand...

yep, I do the same with social media, forums, and the internet in general. tbh, I rarely get on the web on weekends. I enjoy my kids and home life and rarely get near a computer.

infantrycak said:
Uh-huh. Or everything was totally innocent. Y'all know that happens.

The Bills process was unusual last season. It was like the 2006 Texans. Doug Whaley stayed thru the draft with new HC Sean McDermott. After the draft he was fired and Brandon Beane was brought in as GM on 5/9. He brought in Jim Schoen who he worked with in Carolina as Asst. GM on 5/12. They then brought in Brian Gaine who Schoen had worked with in Miami on 5/14. Pretty convenient albeit odd time to get fired (and for all the reporter sources to go mute).

This move also brought Gaine back to the east coast where his family are and he has lived his life other than 2 years in Dallas and 3 in Houston.

Now I know reporters are infallible to some, even the ones who said OB was gone.

Oh and it's damned unusual to promote someone 7 mos. after firing them.
Click to expand...

I figure it's Occam's razor. Gaine was let go for [insert reason here - I'll speculate it was creative differences with Smith], but he knew the Texans way and had previously worked well - i.e. alignment - with O'Brien. NFLN has reported that Gaine was the favorite all along, so it only makes sense to bring it to the simplest and most logical explanation.
 
michaelm said:
It would be interesting to me to read a post of yours that didn't include a comment about O'Brien leaking information
I'm sure you've made posts that don't include that, but your deluge of O'Brien leak references makes it difficult to recall a single one
Click to expand...

It would be interesting for Bill O'Brien to take responsibility rather than to blame Rick for who he starts at QB.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
I am not local and with Gaine there is "nothing wrong" with the hire.and that standard is kinda the problem.



I have no anxiety about Gaine taking over the Texans. He is safe, professional, and connected from what I have gathered. I doubt he will be awful from what I can see about his background. The issues with process that appears to have been in place;

1) There does not seem to be anyway that the Texans could know if there was someone better to do the job versus you could do worse.

2) While I am content that the Texans are run this way, this was the safest possible answer to the GM problem, especially of you were wanting to act quickly over thoroughly.

3) There was not even the chance to really hear how someone else might view the situation, and how this person might attack the issue. If nothing else, actually interviewing people might give some honest, different perspective, even if you hire your guy anyway.
Click to expand...
That's the important point to me. Interview away and see who really catches your eye with some astute observations, whether pro or con. I would want a candidate who is honest, straightforward and willing to speak his mind, in the face of opposition, over a "yes man" who will say whatever it takes to get the job. Especially at a position like GM that is subject to so much scrutiny. The wheat separates from the chaff much more quickly with those guys.
 
Double Barrel said:
.
I figure it's Occam's razor. Gaine was let go for [insert reason here - I'll speculate it was creative differences with Smith], but he knew the Texans way and had previously worked well - i.e. alignment - with O'Brien. NFLN has reported that Gaine was the favorite all along, so it only makes sense to bring it to the simplest and most logical explanation.
Click to expand...

How is 'he was fired and it was covered up just when coincidentally a job with friends was open' simpler than 'he went home to work with friends and be near family?'
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
I am not local and with Gaine there is "nothing wrong" with the hire.and that standard is kinda the problem.



I have no anxiety about Gaine taking over the Texans. He is safe, professional, and connected from what I have gathered. I doubt he will be awful from what I can see about his background. The issues with process that appears to have been in place;

1) There does not seem to be anyway that the Texans could know if there was someone better to do the job versus you could do worse.

2) While I am content that the Texans are run this way, this was the safest possible answer to the GM problem, especially of you were wanting to act quickly over thoroughly.

3) There was not even the chance to really hear how someone else might view the situation, and how this person might attack the issue. If nothing else, actually interviewing people might give some honest, different perspective, even if you hire your guy anyway.
Click to expand...

I wish I could like this post 1,000 times. These are exactly my thoughts. I too have no anxiety the hire is what it is. A hire that was rushed and not thought out, all so the staff would be in place with the Sr Bowl coming up. I just hope they get lucky with the Gaine hire. It will be luck if it works out. It really could work out though because Gaine is really good at the pro player personnel job.
 
michaelm said:
Do you have any links detailing O'Briens leaks? I'm dying to read them
Click to expand...

Many articles have covered this. It's been ongoing since Obrien got here.

Bill O’Brien, Rick Smith Subtly Argue Through Media Who Loved Deshaun Watson More
No one wants to admit they didn’t always know how brilliant the Texans’ rookie quarterback would be.
  • By Tim
  • on October 4, 2017 10:46 am
Texans fans know that rumors of a clash between Rick Smith and Bill O’Brien are nothing new. They date back at least two years to the handling of Ryan Mallett in the aftermath of Mallett missing the team flight to Miami. Shortly before the Texans hosted the Raiders in the NFL Playoffs back in January, there was talk that O’Brien could leave Houston for another job, with speculation about a possible trade and that Kyle Shanahan could succeed O’Brien here. Despite the gossip, nothing happened.


Then the Texans traded up to acquire the twelfth pick of the 2017 NFL Draft and selected Deshaun Watson. After an offseason of telling anyone who’d listen that Tom Savage was his starting quarterback and trotting Savage out against the Jaguars in Week One, Bill O’Brien quickly abandoned his plan after the first half of the first game of the regular season, and the rookie from Clemson has been Houston’s QB1 since. It appears to have been a wise decision, as Deshaun Watson has led the Texans to a 2-1 record as the starter, with the sole loss being one in which Watson played exceptionally well before coming up short to the defending champs at Gillette Stadium, thanks to last minute heroics by Tom Brady.

Now Deshaun Watson is the toast of the town, and the incredulity over how O’Brien could have ever thought Savage was a superior option to Watson has reached a critical mass.

Naturally, Rick Smith knew how special Deshaun Watson was all along. I mean, Smith not only traded up with the Browns to take Watson at No. 12; he even tried to trade with the Jets to acquire the sixth overall pick so he could take Watson there!


Oh, you’d never heard that before? Me neither. I learned about it this morning in this article by John McClain that was published last night. The money shot:

While the Texans prepare for the Chiefs, this is a good time to revisit the draft-day trade that brought Watson to Houston.

General manager Rick Smith, who had scouted Watson extensively, deserves credit for trading up from No. 25 to 12 to select Watson - the third quarterback taken behind Mitchell Trubisky (Chicago) and Patrick Mahomes (Kansas City).

Smith convinced Cleveland to swap first-round picks by offering the Texans' No. 1 draft choice in 2018.

Smith wanted Watson so badly he tried to trade with the New York Jets up to No. 6 but couldn't work out a deal that was suitable to both teams.

Now, at the quarter point of his rookie season, Watson is rewarding Smith's faith in him.

How’s that for timing? A few days after Deshaun Watson put up a performance so exquisite that the rookie was named AFC Offensive Player of the Week, we learn that the Texans’ general manager was so bullish on Watson that he tried to move up even more aggressively than originally thought to acquire Watson’s services.

But that’s not the end of the story. Because this morning, just hours after McClain’s story was published, we also learned that Bill O’Brien, for all his public posturing about how Tom Savage was the unquestioned starting quarterback, actually wanted to name Deshaun Watson the starter way back after the preseason opener against the Panthers. You know who talked him out of it? Rick Smith! The same dude who loved Deshaun so much that he moved heaven and earth to get him insisted that Watson stay on the sidelines! From Matt Hammond’s report (which was first brought to my attention by Wotan):


According to a source with knowledge of the situation, O’Brien wanted to promote Watson after his performance in Week 1 of the preseason against the Carolina Panthers, but was talked out of it by general manager Rick Smith.
...

But according to the source, when O’Brien approached Smith about his thinking, Smith said he should “give it time,” in part to ensure that Watson wasn’t being rushed.

“(O’Brien) knew what he had a long time ago,” the source said, adding that “it wasn’t a matter of if, but when” Watson would get the nod.

The decision to stick with Savage was collaborative, the source said, and one that O’Brien ultimately agreed to.

As the old chestnut goes, success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan. It’s funny how the possible discovery of a franchise quarterback has everyone rushing to claim credit mere months after the same parties did everything they possibly could to distance themselves from the disastrous Brock Osweiler signing.

It’s also worth noting that the Smith-O’Brien relationship, long believed to be a loggerheads, is now, according to Hammond’s source, “better than it used to be.” While it once seemed that Houston wasn’t big enough for the both of them, it’s now thought, at least by Hammond’s source, that Rick Smith and Bill O’Brien will find a way to work together and maintain their partnership as long as the team is winning.

Never underestimate the magic that is Deshaun Watson.
 
TheKDog said:
Many articles have covered this. It's been ongoing since Obrien got here.

Bill O’Brien, Rick Smith Subtly Argue Through Media Who Loved Deshaun Watson More
No one wants to admit they didn’t always know how brilliant the Texans’ rookie quarterback would be.
  • By Tim
  • on October 4, 2017 10:46 am
Texans fans know that rumors of a clash between Rick Smith and Bill O’Brien are nothing new. They date back at least two years to the handling of Ryan Mallett in the aftermath of Mallett missing the team flight to Miami. Shortly before the Texans hosted the Raiders in the NFL Playoffs back in January, there was talk that O’Brien could leave Houston for another job, with speculation about a possible trade and that Kyle Shanahan could succeed O’Brien here. Despite the gossip, nothing happened.


Then the Texans traded up to acquire the twelfth pick of the 2017 NFL Draft and selected Deshaun Watson. After an offseason of telling anyone who’d listen that Tom Savage was his starting quarterback and trotting Savage out against the Jaguars in Week One, Bill O’Brien quickly abandoned his plan after the first half of the first game of the regular season, and the rookie from Clemson has been Houston’s QB1 since. It appears to have been a wise decision, as Deshaun Watson has led the Texans to a 2-1 record as the starter, with the sole loss being one in which Watson played exceptionally well before coming up short to the defending champs at Gillette Stadium, thanks to last minute heroics by Tom Brady.

Now Deshaun Watson is the toast of the town, and the incredulity over how O’Brien could have ever thought Savage was a superior option to Watson has reached a critical mass.

Naturally, Rick Smith knew how special Deshaun Watson was all along. I mean, Smith not only traded up with the Browns to take Watson at No. 12; he even tried to trade with the Jets to acquire the sixth overall pick so he could take Watson there!


Oh, you’d never heard that before? Me neither. I learned about it this morning in this article by John McClain that was published last night. The money shot:

While the Texans prepare for the Chiefs, this is a good time to revisit the draft-day trade that brought Watson to Houston.

General manager Rick Smith, who had scouted Watson extensively, deserves credit for trading up from No. 25 to 12 to select Watson - the third quarterback taken behind Mitchell Trubisky (Chicago) and Patrick Mahomes (Kansas City).

Smith convinced Cleveland to swap first-round picks by offering the Texans' No. 1 draft choice in 2018.

Smith wanted Watson so badly he tried to trade with the New York Jets up to No. 6 but couldn't work out a deal that was suitable to both teams.

Now, at the quarter point of his rookie season, Watson is rewarding Smith's faith in him.

How’s that for timing? A few days after Deshaun Watson put up a performance so exquisite that the rookie was named AFC Offensive Player of the Week, we learn that the Texans’ general manager was so bullish on Watson that he tried to move up even more aggressively than originally thought to acquire Watson’s services.

But that’s not the end of the story. Because this morning, just hours after McClain’s story was published, we also learned that Bill O’Brien, for all his public posturing about how Tom Savage was the unquestioned starting quarterback, actually wanted to name Deshaun Watson the starter way back after the preseason opener against the Panthers. You know who talked him out of it? Rick Smith! The same dude who loved Deshaun so much that he moved heaven and earth to get him insisted that Watson stay on the sidelines! From Matt Hammond’s report (which was first brought to my attention by Wotan):


According to a source with knowledge of the situation, O’Brien wanted to promote Watson after his performance in Week 1 of the preseason against the Carolina Panthers, but was talked out of it by general manager Rick Smith.
...

But according to the source, when O’Brien approached Smith about his thinking, Smith said he should “give it time,” in part to ensure that Watson wasn’t being rushed.

“(O’Brien) knew what he had a long time ago,” the source said, adding that “it wasn’t a matter of if, but when” Watson would get the nod.

The decision to stick with Savage was collaborative, the source said, and one that O’Brien ultimately agreed to.

As the old chestnut goes, success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan. It’s funny how the possible discovery of a franchise quarterback has everyone rushing to claim credit mere months after the same parties did everything they possibly could to distance themselves from the disastrous Brock Osweiler signing.

It’s also worth noting that the Smith-O’Brien relationship, long believed to be a loggerheads, is now, according to Hammond’s source, “better than it used to be.” While it once seemed that Houston wasn’t big enough for the both of them, it’s now thought, at least by Hammond’s source, that Rick Smith and Bill O’Brien will find a way to work together and maintain their partnership as long as the team is winning.

Never underestimate the magic that is Deshaun Watson.
Click to expand...

Atleast players/fans wont have to see this kind of crap next season.
 
TheKDog said:
Many articles have covered this. It's been ongoing since Obrien got here.

Bill O’Brien, Rick Smith Subtly Argue Through Media Who Loved Deshaun Watson More
No one wants to admit they didn’t always know how brilliant the Texans’ rookie quarterback would be.
  • By Tim
  • on October 4, 2017 10:46 am
Texans fans know that rumors of a clash between Rick Smith and Bill O’Brien are nothing new. They date back at least two years to the handling of Ryan Mallett in the aftermath of Mallett missing the team flight to Miami. Shortly before the Texans hosted the Raiders in the NFL Playoffs back in January, there was talk that O’Brien could leave Houston for another job, with speculation about a possible trade and that Kyle Shanahan could succeed O’Brien here. Despite the gossip, nothing happened.


Then the Texans traded up to acquire the twelfth pick of the 2017 NFL Draft and selected Deshaun Watson. After an offseason of telling anyone who’d listen that Tom Savage was his starting quarterback and trotting Savage out against the Jaguars in Week One, Bill O’Brien quickly abandoned his plan after the first half of the first game of the regular season, and the rookie from Clemson has been Houston’s QB1 since. It appears to have been a wise decision, as Deshaun Watson has led the Texans to a 2-1 record as the starter, with the sole loss being one in which Watson played exceptionally well before coming up short to the defending champs at Gillette Stadium, thanks to last minute heroics by Tom Brady.

Now Deshaun Watson is the toast of the town, and the incredulity over how O’Brien could have ever thought Savage was a superior option to Watson has reached a critical mass.

Naturally, Rick Smith knew how special Deshaun Watson was all along. I mean, Smith not only traded up with the Browns to take Watson at No. 12; he even tried to trade with the Jets to acquire the sixth overall pick so he could take Watson there!


Oh, you’d never heard that before? Me neither. I learned about it this morning in this article by John McClain that was published last night. The money shot:

While the Texans prepare for the Chiefs, this is a good time to revisit the draft-day trade that brought Watson to Houston.

General manager Rick Smith, who had scouted Watson extensively, deserves credit for trading up from No. 25 to 12 to select Watson - the third quarterback taken behind Mitchell Trubisky (Chicago) and Patrick Mahomes (Kansas City).

Smith convinced Cleveland to swap first-round picks by offering the Texans' No. 1 draft choice in 2018.

Smith wanted Watson so badly he tried to trade with the New York Jets up to No. 6 but couldn't work out a deal that was suitable to both teams.

Now, at the quarter point of his rookie season, Watson is rewarding Smith's faith in him.

How’s that for timing? A few days after Deshaun Watson put up a performance so exquisite that the rookie was named AFC Offensive Player of the Week, we learn that the Texans’ general manager was so bullish on Watson that he tried to move up even more aggressively than originally thought to acquire Watson’s services.

But that’s not the end of the story. Because this morning, just hours after McClain’s story was published, we also learned that Bill O’Brien, for all his public posturing about how Tom Savage was the unquestioned starting quarterback, actually wanted to name Deshaun Watson the starter way back after the preseason opener against the Panthers. You know who talked him out of it? Rick Smith! The same dude who loved Deshaun so much that he moved heaven and earth to get him insisted that Watson stay on the sidelines! From Matt Hammond’s report (which was first brought to my attention by Wotan):


According to a source with knowledge of the situation, O’Brien wanted to promote Watson after his performance in Week 1 of the preseason against the Carolina Panthers, but was talked out of it by general manager Rick Smith.
...

But according to the source, when O’Brien approached Smith about his thinking, Smith said he should “give it time,” in part to ensure that Watson wasn’t being rushed.

“(O’Brien) knew what he had a long time ago,” the source said, adding that “it wasn’t a matter of if, but when” Watson would get the nod.

The decision to stick with Savage was collaborative, the source said, and one that O’Brien ultimately agreed to.

As the old chestnut goes, success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan. It’s funny how the possible discovery of a franchise quarterback has everyone rushing to claim credit mere months after the same parties did everything they possibly could to distance themselves from the disastrous Brock Osweiler signing.

It’s also worth noting that the Smith-O’Brien relationship, long believed to be a loggerheads, is now, according to Hammond’s source, “better than it used to be.” While it once seemed that Houston wasn’t big enough for the both of them, it’s now thought, at least by Hammond’s source, that Rick Smith and Bill O’Brien will find a way to work together and maintain their partnership as long as the team is winning.

Never underestimate the magic that is Deshaun Watson.
Click to expand...


tldr;
Does any of that support your claim that O'Brien is the leaker? That's my issue.
You have been railing on and on and on and on that O'Brien is the one leaking stuff but I've never seen proof, just speculation such as yours.


I don't mind being corrected if what you posted above includes proof of your assertion. I've come to the hotel bar for some dinner and don't have my glasses. I can read without them but reading as much text as you posted is difficult without them
 
michaelm said:
tldr;
Does any of that support your claim that O'Brien is the leaker? That's my issue.
You have been railing on and on and on and on that O'Brien is the one leaking stuff but I've never seen proof, just speculation such as yours.


I don't mind being corrected if what you posted above includes proof of your assertion. I've come to the hotel bar for some dinner and don't have my glasses. I can read without them but reading as much text as you posted is difficult without them
Click to expand...

These stories are always based on anonymous sources.They are always "someone close to" Obrien or Rick or McNair.

I don't think it's actually O'Brien himself, just someone close to him
 
TheKDog said:
These stories are always based on anonymous sources.They are always "someone close to" Obrien or Rick or McNair.

I don't think it's actually O'Brien himself, just someone close to him
Click to expand...

I agree that most times where there's smoke there's fire, I just don't agree with stating it as if it's a fact the way you have when you could just as effectively state it as a strong opinion.
 
michaelm said:
I agree that most times where there's smoke there's fire, I just don't agree with stating it as if it's a fact the way you have when you could just as effectively state it as a strong opinion.
Click to expand...

You're correct a lot of opinion gets asserted as fact.

I don't feel like fully going thru it but in this particular instance timing lends support to kdog.

1st off, where are these infallible reporters with their minute by minute tweets based on anonymous sources during months of mundane news? Not one report of breast cancer. Not one report of Gaine being fired.

Back to something more specific, not one word of OB wanting to start Watson until after the trainwreck 1st game where OB not for the 1st time yanked his chosen starter in the 1st game. What middle of the game OB, shrinking violet that he is, suddenly gnadded up to defy RS and start Watson? That story screamed OB camp leak.
 
infantrycak said:
You're correct a lot of opinion gets asserted as fact.

I don't feel like fully going thru it but in this particular instance timing lends support to kdog.

1st off, where are these infallible reporters with their minute by minute tweets based on anonymous sources during months of mundane news? Not one report of breast cancer. Not one report of Gaine being fired.

Back to something more specific, not one word of OB wanting to start Watson until after the trainwreck 1st game where OB not for the 1st time yanked his chosen starter in the 1st game. What middle of the game OB, shrinking violet that he is, suddenly gnadded up to defy RS and start Watson? That story screamed OB camp leak.
Click to expand...

I would hope that the local media, under any circumstance, would have had enough respect for Tiffany and her family not to break her sensitive story before she was ready to reveal it.
 
infantrycak said:
You're correct a lot of opinion gets asserted as fact.

I don't feel like fully going thru it but in this particular instance timing lends support to kdog.

1st off, where are these infallible reporters with their minute by minute tweets based on anonymous sources during months of mundane news? Not one report of breast cancer. Not one report of Gaine being fired.

Back to something more specific, not one word of OB wanting to start Watson until after the trainwreck 1st game where OB not for the 1st time yanked his chosen starter in the 1st game. What middle of the game OB, shrinking violet that he is, suddenly gnadded up to defy RS and start Watson? That story screamed OB camp leak.
Click to expand...


My source ( an infallible reporter) tells me that Gaine is only filling in for the godfather while he is on leave.

Brian Gaine, Houston Texans: The Texans are expected to hire Bills VP of player personnel Brian Gaine as their new GM, Rapoport reported, according to sources. He was their favorite all along, Rapoport added. He will take over for Rick Smith while he is on a leave of absence to tend to his wife, who was recently diagnosed with breast cancer.

I knew it I knew it.. Smith will reclaim his GM job. Damnit.

tongue in cheek

:coffee:
 
TheKDog said:
Many articles have covered this. It's been ongoing since Obrien got here.

Bill O’Brien, Rick Smith Subtly Argue Through Media Who Loved Deshaun Watson More
No one wants to admit they didn’t always know how brilliant the Texans’ rookie quarterback would be.
  • By Tim
  • on October 4, 2017 10:46 am
Texans fans know that rumors of a clash between Rick Smith and Bill O’Brien are nothing new. They date back at least two years to the handling of Ryan Mallett in the aftermath of Mallett missing the team flight to Miami. Shortly before the Texans hosted the Raiders in the NFL Playoffs back in January, there was talk that O’Brien could leave Houston for another job, with speculation about a possible trade and that Kyle Shanahan could succeed O’Brien here. Despite the gossip, nothing happened.


Then the Texans traded up to acquire the twelfth pick of the 2017 NFL Draft and selected Deshaun Watson. After an offseason of telling anyone who’d listen that Tom Savage was his starting quarterback and trotting Savage out against the Jaguars in Week One, Bill O’Brien quickly abandoned his plan after the first half of the first game of the regular season, and the rookie from Clemson has been Houston’s QB1 since. It appears to have been a wise decision, as Deshaun Watson has led the Texans to a 2-1 record as the starter, with the sole loss being one in which Watson played exceptionally well before coming up short to the defending champs at Gillette Stadium, thanks to last minute heroics by Tom Brady.

Now Deshaun Watson is the toast of the town, and the incredulity over how O’Brien could have ever thought Savage was a superior option to Watson has reached a critical mass.

Naturally, Rick Smith knew how special Deshaun Watson was all along. I mean, Smith not only traded up with the Browns to take Watson at No. 12; he even tried to trade with the Jets to acquire the sixth overall pick so he could take Watson there!


Oh, you’d never heard that before? Me neither. I learned about it this morning in this article by John McClain that was published last night. The money shot:

While the Texans prepare for the Chiefs, this is a good time to revisit the draft-day trade that brought Watson to Houston.

General manager Rick Smith, who had scouted Watson extensively, deserves credit for trading up from No. 25 to 12 to select Watson - the third quarterback taken behind Mitchell Trubisky (Chicago) and Patrick Mahomes (Kansas City).

Smith convinced Cleveland to swap first-round picks by offering the Texans' No. 1 draft choice in 2018.

Smith wanted Watson so badly he tried to trade with the New York Jets up to No. 6 but couldn't work out a deal that was suitable to both teams.

Now, at the quarter point of his rookie season, Watson is rewarding Smith's faith in him.

How’s that for timing? A few days after Deshaun Watson put up a performance so exquisite that the rookie was named AFC Offensive Player of the Week, we learn that the Texans’ general manager was so bullish on Watson that he tried to move up even more aggressively than originally thought to acquire Watson’s services.

But that’s not the end of the story. Because this morning, just hours after McClain’s story was published, we also learned that Bill O’Brien, for all his public posturing about how Tom Savage was the unquestioned starting quarterback, actually wanted to name Deshaun Watson the starter way back after the preseason opener against the Panthers. You know who talked him out of it? Rick Smith! The same dude who loved Deshaun so much that he moved heaven and earth to get him insisted that Watson stay on the sidelines! From Matt Hammond’s report (which was first brought to my attention by Wotan):


According to a source with knowledge of the situation, O’Brien wanted to promote Watson after his performance in Week 1 of the preseason against the Carolina Panthers, but was talked out of it by general manager Rick Smith.
...

But according to the source, when O’Brien approached Smith about his thinking, Smith said he should “give it time,” in part to ensure that Watson wasn’t being rushed.

“(O’Brien) knew what he had a long time ago,” the source said, adding that “it wasn’t a matter of if, but when” Watson would get the nod.

The decision to stick with Savage was collaborative, the source said, and one that O’Brien ultimately agreed to.

As the old chestnut goes, success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan. It’s funny how the possible discovery of a franchise quarterback has everyone rushing to claim credit mere months after the same parties did everything they possibly could to distance themselves from the disastrous Brock Osweiler signing.

It’s also worth noting that the Smith-O’Brien relationship, long believed to be a loggerheads, is now, according to Hammond’s source, “better than it used to be.” While it once seemed that Houston wasn’t big enough for the both of them, it’s now thought, at least by Hammond’s source, that Rick Smith and Bill O’Brien will find a way to work together and maintain their partnership as long as the team is winning.

Never underestimate the magic that is Deshaun Watson.
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Tim, whoever the hell he is didn't prove your point at all. Do you have any articles from Dave or Bob?

Whether you like it or not (and I know you don't) O'Brien is here to stay for a little while at least. He will get an extension if not just because he has about half a dozen coaches to hire and how in the hell will that happen with a HC on the last year of his contract? They'd be coming here with the understanding they'd likely be fired within 12 months. Hardly job security.
 
TheKDog said:
These stories are always based on anonymous sources.They are always "someone close to" Obrien or Rick or McNair.

I don't think it's actually O'Brien himself, just someone close to him
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You acknowledge that it could be someone close to BoB, Smith or McNair...yet you only tout it as it being BoB with the leaks and that shows your bias. But When u really sit back and think about it, truthfully the person who had the most to gain by leaking info is Smith.

Most of BoB’s work is seen and on display to be scrutinized by every texans fan each Sunday. And downplay it as much as u like, his body of work include those 2 playoff appearances and division crowns.That goes more on his track record, not Smith’s. And once the future of this franchise came out to support him staying, it was Smith’s move.

For all we know, Smith could’ve seen the writing on the wall with McNair after a series of failures that started with the trade to acquire Mallet and came to a head as everyone here watched him let Buoye walk away only to subsequently play at pro bowl level for a division rival. Dude may have leaked info out about how integral he was to the selection of Watson so as to keep himself in the good graces of McNair...especially after the disaster of this season began to reveal VERY clearly that the roster depth on this team is extra shitty. Which is the only real and most objective way to assess his main job duties.
 
infantrycak said:
You're correct a lot of opinion gets asserted as fact.

I don't feel like fully going thru it but in this particular instance timing lends support to kdog.

1st off, where are these infallible reporters with their minute by minute tweets based on anonymous sources during months of mundane news? Not one report of breast cancer. Not one report of Gaine being fired.

Back to something more specific, not one word of OB wanting to start Watson until after the trainwreck 1st game where OB not for the 1st time yanked his chosen starter in the 1st game. What middle of the game OB, shrinking violet that he is, suddenly gnadded up to defy RS and start Watson? That story screamed OB camp leak.
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Well u said it yourself, it wasn’t the 1st time Bob yanked his starter..Why would u be surprised that he did it again with the heir apparent 1st round pick that he reportedly already knew was gonna be his guy?

The other thing is, Savage was so bad in that 1st game, it kinda necessitated a change even if it would only be a temp thing...you just get caught up in trying to win a game that I’m sure many had penciled in as a win.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I would hope that the local media, under any circumstance, would have had enough respect for Tiffany and her family not to break her sensitive story before she was ready to reveal it.
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John Granato revealed that he HAD known about it during the season and respected the Smith family's wishes not to reveal it until after the season was over.

He revealed that in an article where he was making the argument that Smith still needed to be fired, so definitely no "Smith defender."
 
justtxyank said:
John Granato revealed that he HAD known about it during the season and respected the Smith family's wishes not to reveal it until after the season was over.

He revealed that in an article where he was making the argument that Smith still needed to be fired, so definitely no "Smith defender."
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It must suck to a reporter when find out info like this but u can’t really get out in front of it
 
infantrycak said:
You're correct a lot of opinion gets asserted as fact.

I don't feel like fully going thru it but in this particular instance timing lends support to kdog.

1st off, where are these infallible reporters with their minute by minute tweets based on anonymous sources during months of mundane news? Not one report of breast cancer. Not one report of Gaine being fired.

Back to something more specific, not one word of OB wanting to start Watson until after the trainwreck 1st game where OB not for the 1st time yanked his chosen starter in the 1st game. What middle of the game OB, shrinking violet that he is, suddenly gnadded up to defy RS and start Watson? That story screamed OB camp leak.
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I'm not debating where the leak came from. It's more of a procedural issue with the way he constantly states that O'Brien is the leaker as if it is known and accepted fact.
O'Brien might be leaking the stuff directly for all I know. But for all I know somebody might have bugged the Texans offices.

And honestly I wouldn't have commented on his post at all if he didn't drone on about it in virtually every post be makes
 
michaelm said:
And honestly I wouldn't have commented on his post at all if he didn't drone on about it in virtually every post be makes
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I sympathize. Jay is a friend and my eyes bleed at the redundancy.

Anyhoo...the spin is already on. Some saying 'see McNair's quote, it's on Gaine.'. Others saying Gaine is an OB hire so it's all on OB.

Without further evidence, I just want to see a kickback to at least our normal 9-7 with particular attention paid to how Watson is used.

Honestly the latter is key to me. If OB can become a Watson whisperer then sign him up for coterminous contracts. If he tries to exert "the system" I may be forced to drive back to Houston - OBs aren't native so there's no limit or season.
 
infantrycak said:
I sympathize. Jay is a friend and my eyes bleed at the redundancy.

Anyhoo...the spin is already on. Some saying 'see McNair's quote, it's on Gaine.'. Others saying Gaine is an OB hire so it's all on OB.

Without further evidence, I just want to see a kickback to at least our normal 9-7 with particular attention paid to how Watson is used.

Honestly the latter is key to me. If OB can become a Watson whisperer then sign him up for coterminous contracts. If he tries to exert "the system" I may be forced to drive back to Houston - but OBs aren't native so there's no limit or season.
Click to expand...

My hope is that OB will continue to run a Watson friendly offense (with similar success to this season) but slowly move back towards a more conventional, less knee endangering offense as Watson improves.
 
infantrycak said:
I sympathize. Jay is a friend and my eyes bleed at the redundancy.

Anyhoo...the spin is already on. Some saying 'see McNair's quote, it's on Gaine.'. Others saying Gaine is an OB hire so it's all on OB.

Without further evidence, I just want to see a kickback to at least our normal 9-7 with particular attention paid to how Watson is used.

Honestly the latter is key to me. If OB can become a Watson whisperer then sign him up for coterminous contracts. If he tries to exert "the system" I may be forced to drive back to Houston - but OBs aren't native so there's no limit or season.
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I think this is all on O'Brien. If it works, great. If not, send both Gaine and O'Brien packing. After writing a month or so ago, when I believed O'Brien would be fired, that Smith should be the guy who hires the next HC so that if that HC failed it would all be on Smith I'd be a hypocrite to stay on board with O'Brien if he and Gaine fails.

Crennel, Vrabel and now Gaine, this is OB's team now. These guys and all the rest of the coaching staff is on O'Brien. And Bill has his own professional baggage, his own issues as a HC to iron out.

But yeah, if OB goes back to the QB must fit the system, that alone will sink him. I just don't think he'll do that. He would have to be the dumbest person on the planet to do that to Watson.
 
Wouldn't it be ironic the Texans sink in the 2018 season, both Gaine and O'Brien are fired and then Rick Smith comes back to pick up the pieces? How interesting would that be?
 
banned1976 said:
Wolf was hired by the Browns as Asst. GM. The Browns FO is looking strong. Who knows, maybe they'll win a game in 2018.
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Rick stepped down Dec 31. Wolf was hired yesterday and judging by the job change, clearly on the market.
 
michaelm said:
I'm not debating where the leak came from. It's more of a procedural issue with the way he constantly states that O'Brien is the leaker as if it is known and accepted fact.
O'Brien might be leaking the stuff directly for all I know. But for all I know somebody might have bugged the Texans offices.

And honestly I wouldn't have commented on his post at all if he didn't drone on about it in virtually every post be makes
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I was just using it as shorthand for someone close to Obrien.

I doubt it is actually OBrien himself though I suppose it could be him off the record.

In any case it's kind of embarrassing for the franchise. They happen to all teams from time to time but it's been every year with this Rick vs OB crap since he got here.
 
michaelm said:
My hope is that OB will continue to run a Watson friendly offense (with similar success to this season) but slowly move back towards a more conventional, less knee endangering offense as Watson improves.
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We ran his offense people. Watson made it better with his mobility. He did put some plays to utilze his feet. That was just the icing on the cake.

Side note: injuries happens in the pocket as well.
 
JB said:
Yeah but I thought we were taking about Houston... Nothing is traditional NFL there
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Might be the best Houston statement ever.

I could have flipped back to Cowboys 1st when I moved to Austin. Didn't do it. There is some sort of sadomasochist attraction.
 
DocBar said:
I straight up don't like the board room method. I'd rather see McNair release a statement that after reading years upon years of TT posts, the new Texans GM is SBT, assistant GM is Texian and director of scouting is beerlover. I'm not being overly facetious about that, either.
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There are a few more that deserve consideration for top spots. Wolverine Fan, all the other draft guys whom I'm too lazy and drunk to type out (sorry)
 
JB said:
There are a few more that deserve consideration for top spots. Wolverine Fan, all the other draft guys whom I'm too lazy and drunk to type out (sorry)
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I agree. That wasn't meant to be an exclusive list. I'm too lazy and drunk, also.
 
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infantrycak said:
How is 'he was fired and it was covered up just when coincidentally a job with friends was open' simpler than 'he went home to work with friends and be near family?'
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Well, you got a point there but it is simpler than the version where they dug up 9 hooker's bodies in the back yard of his former Houston residence and on weekends he flew small aircraft packed with cocaine over the border as a side gig. That version accounts for most of it (Left town when Rick threatened to expose him) but it's just never really stuck IMO.

I find the part about "Pancakes" riding shotgun on the drug flights implausible.
 
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cuppacoffee said:
My source ( an infallible reporter) tells me that Gaine is only filling in for the godfather while he is on leave.

Brian Gaine, Houston Texans: The Texans are expected to hire Bills VP of player personnel Brian Gaine as their new GM, Rapoport reported, according to sources. He was their favorite all along, Rapoport added. He will take over for Rick Smith while he is on a leave of absence to tend to his wife, who was recently diagnosed with breast cancer.

I knew it I knew it.. Smith will reclaim his GM job. Damnit.

tongue in cheek

:coffee:
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That's why I was so perplexed as to why everyone was so ecstatic about Rick leaveing. He didn't get fired or is stepping down. He's just taking emergency leave.
 
banned1976 said:
Wouldn't it be ironic the Texans sink in the 2018 season, both Gaine and O'Brien are fired and then Rick Smith comes back to pick up the pieces? How interesting would that be?
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I definitely could see this happening considering all of the holes on the roster.

Interesting like a hemorrhoid flare up.
 
HOU-TEX said:
It's a good thing we hired the search firm. They really earned their $. :rolleyes:
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This is my point

The GM search was a scam and probably the new GM will eventually be answering to Ricky after his leave of absence, even if Gaine doesn't realize that's what's happening.
 
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