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Replacement GM thread

RAC's and McDaniel's, you will find BOB is far from the worst HC from the BB tree.

Because there's no other football person on earth as good as Kubiak in your mind, so he should be the next GM, Am I right?

Read what you quoted - O'Brien being basically the only Patriots coach without a ring. I think RAC and McDaniels have 8 between them.

No, but since he fits this quote tier, I guess his 5 rings, lifetime of experience, and building an offensive line (I thought you liked that) wouldn't hurt.
 
A read that should make you more informed.

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2018 NFL General Manager Candidate Study
December 28, 2017Leave a commentFront Office, Long-Form & EditorialBy Dan Hatman


Recently, Albert Breer of MMQB released his annual list of GM candidates. He (or maybe the editors) labeled it “the definitive list of future NFL GMs”, which led a few people to ask me who my top candidates are.

I love studying the process of how owners decide who they want to lead their football operations, but I say again (in my annual tradition), I do not speak with owners (or agents for that matter) regarding the list below. This is NOT “my list.” This is the outcome of years of studying which candidates have actually interviewed for the position and my attempt to highlight what I have learned in that process. I have dear friends that I believe should be in consideration for GM opportunities that will be on the list below and others that will not. This is because this study is not about who I believe in, but who seems to have the attention of ownership groups.

I still believe we do not put enough time and attention into understanding all the things that can end up on the desk of the General Manager and the variations in organizational design that can allow for delegation of these tasks. The organizational structure of Ted Thompson and the Green Bay Packers does not look like the organizational structure of Bill Belichick and the New England Patriots and the same would be said for Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Denver, Seattle, New Orleans, or any other team that has won the Super Bowl in the last 15 years.

If you want to learn more about what the duties and responsibilities of the General Manager position include, or what the backgrounds have been of those who have held the role, I wrote my Masters thesis on the topics and that work can be found in the Villanova Law Journal.

What have I learned since we published last year’s list:

  • General Manager hiring cycles are shifting. While historically most teams fire their GMs immediately after the season (see San Francisco last year), we’ve seen Indianapolis, Washington, Buffalo, Kansas City, Carolina, the New York Giants, and Cleveland all relieve their GMs of their duties in a different part of the calendar. Indianapolis and Washington made their moves prior to the draft, forcing their new decision makers to operate with even less time. Buffalo announced their move immediately after the draft, giving their new GM the entire calendar year to prepare for his first draft. Kansas City and Carolina made their moves during the summer and New York and Cleveland made their moves in-season. The conclusion: owners are not waiting until the end of Week 17 to make a move.
  • The two biggest paths to GM are internal promotion or executive from a successful team with a college area scouting background. Those with a pro scouting background need not apply; dating back to 2010 only Dave Gettleman and Bob Quinn had a primarily pro scouting background. So, sorry Trent Kirchner, George Paton, and Louis Riddick. To try to understand this better, I offer the thoughts of former Seahawks and Panthers area scout Bucky Brooks:
  • There are more candidates labeled as a “good candidate for GM,” than there will ever be spots. In asking friends in the business and reading pieces from reporters like Breer, a few common names come up, but everyone has three or four names that do not overlap. These differences account for the great variance in the hiring process. Much like no two teams have the same draft boards, no two owners have the same top five list of GM candidates.
So, without further ado, I present a list of General Manager candidates, clustered by background, and ordered alphabetically. There are links to their bios and quick one-liners on them below:

The guys on everyone’s list that no one thinks will move:

  • Nick Caserio – director of player personnel – New England Patriots
  • Eric DeCosta – assistant general manager – Baltimore Ravens
  • Will McClay – vice president of player personnel – Dallas Cowboys
  • Duke Tobin – director of player personnel – Cincinnati Bengals
The only name you hear might actually listen is Nick Caserio, who has interviewed for a GM position once (Miami – 2014) and pulled his name out of the mix. There are rumors of a Caserio/Josh McDaniels pairing as they share an agent.

The guys on everyone’s list that have been taking interviews:

  • Brian Gaine – vice president of player personnel – Buffalo Bills
    • Known interviews: 2012: STL / 2013: NYJ / 2014: MIA / 2015: CHI, PHI / 2017: BUF
  • Brian Gutekunst – director of player personnel – Green Bay Packers
    • Known interviews: 2017: SF, BUF
  • Trent Kirchner – co-director of player personnel – Seattle Seahawks
    • Known interviews: 2015: NYJ / 2016: DET / 2017:SF, IND
  • Terry McDonough – vice president of player personnel – Arizona Cardinals
    • Known interviews: 2017: SF
  • George Paton – assistant general manager – Minnesota Vikings
    • Known interviews: 2012: STL / 2013: CAR / 2017: SF, IND
  • Eliot Wolf – director of football operations – Green Bay Packers
    • Known interviews: 2017: SF, IND
Last year, Paton and Wolf made the list of those who people did not expect to move on, but both were involved in the GM searches in SF and IND. The candidates above have worked the GM circuit, which only increases their chances.

The guys on everyone’s list who have yet to interview for a GM position:

  • Joe Douglas – vice president of player personnel – Philadelphia Eagles
  • Alonzo Highsmith – senior personnel executive – Green Bay Packers
The rise of the Eagles this year has made Joe Douglas a very popular name in connection with GM positions after his tenures in Chicago (where he worked as college scouting director) and Baltimore (where he was an area scout and then national scout). Alonzo Highsmith has an extensive playing and scouting career and made the finalist list for the Fritz Pollard Alliance, which promotes diversity and equality in hiring.

The guys who have been taking interviews and clearly have ownership attention:

  • Kevin Abrams – interim general manager – New York Giants
    • Known interviews: 2007: NYG / 2016: DET / 2017: NYG
  • Joey Clinkscales – director of player personnel – Oakland Raiders
    • Known interviews: 2012: STL
  • Scott Fitterer – co-director of player personnel – Seattle Seahawks
    • Known interviews: 2017: SF / IND / KC
  • Chris Grier – general manager – Miami Dolphins
    • Known interviews: 2015: NYJ, PHI / 2016: MIA*
  • Louis Riddick – nfl analyst – ESPN
    • Known interviews: 2010: PHI / 2017: SF, NYG
  • Marc Ross – vice president of player evaluation – New York Giants
    • Known interviews: 2010: SEA / 2012: IND, CHI / 2013: JAX, NYJ, SD, CAR / 2014: MIA, TB / 2016: TEN / 2017: NYG
This is not a group to dismiss offhand. They all have strong advocates and extensive interview histories. Chris Grier makes the list, despite the GM title, as he does not have final say over the roster and from reports, is very much a candidate for a full GM position elsewhere.


THE REST OF THE STORY
 
Nick Caserio of the Pats would be the top of my list. No doubt he would be on the same page with his HC as far sharing the same mentality of how and with which type of players could build this franchise back up.

Is that true? He's on the same page as BB. But the Pats & Texans don't run E-P the same way. You see a lot of small quick receivers on slants, drags & crossing routes for the Texans?

They've run base 4-3 for years now.
 
Is that true? He's on the same page as BB. But the Pats & Texans don't run E-P the same way. You see a lot of small quick receivers on slants, drags & crossing routes for the Texans?

They've run base 4-3 for years now.
Likely to be on the same page is what I was referring to...........whatever the goal.
 
Likely to be on the same page is what I was referring to...........whatever the goal.

In my experience one of the easiest ways for people to be crosswise, even at loggerheads, is for them both to have experience in the same thing and different visions of how they should be accomplished/end results.

Just a concern.
 
Read what you quoted - O'Brien being basically the only Patriots coach without a ring. I think RAC and McDaniels have 8 between them.

No, but since he fits this quote tier, I guess his 5 rings, lifetime of experience, and building an offensive line (I thought you liked that) wouldn't hurt.

O'Brien was acting OC for one year in New England and couldn't hack it.

Somehow that got spun into him being a QB guru and offensive genius.

I truly think the guy is a fraud.
 
O'Brien was acting OC for one year in New England and couldn't hack it.

Don't know about couldn't hack it. They had a very good year.

I did think the decision to go to a disgraced & sanctioned college was odd. Couple more years as NE OC and he'd have been getting NFL HC offers. It worked out for him but 2 more years of NFL experience with BB would have been better imo.
 
The Patriots had a very good year? Tell me more.
Yeah, they had Randy Moss. :kitten:

I think it was also the first time Brady had a great receiver to throw to instead of the scrubs BB kept giving him.
 
Don't know about couldn't hack it. They had a very good year.

I did think the decision to go to a disgraced & sanctioned college was odd. Couple more years as NE OC and he'd have been getting NFL HC offers. It worked out for him but 2 more years of NFL experience with BB would have been better imo.

It wasn't up to O'Brien to stay as OC.

Josh McDaniels had already returned for the 2011-12 postseason.

Sure seems to me like OBrien left because he was gonna get demoted with McDaniels taking over as OC again.
 
It wasn't up to O'Brien to stay as OC.

Josh McDaniels had already returned for the 2011-12 postseason.

Sure seems to me like OBrien left because he was gonna get demoted with McDaniels taking over as OC again.

How about he wanted to be a HC so bad he took the worst job in the country to get his foot in the door .
 
It wasn't up to O'Brien to stay as OC.

Josh McDaniels had already returned for the 2011-12 postseason.

Sure seems to me like OBrien left because he was gonna get demoted with McDaniels taking over as OC again.

OB had accepted the Penn State job before McDaniels returned. OB's announcement was Jan. 7th, McDaniels joined the Pats Jan. 8th.
 
We already have the Patriot's least successful coach (anyone without a ring raise your hand) at Head Coach, Offensive Coordinator and GM. Is there any more damage he can do?

Least successful? C'mon man this stuff is easily googled. He was on NE's staff for 5 years in various roles working his way up to OC. You don't think BB would've kept this dude around & kept promoting him up the ranks if he didn't think he was a good coach do you?
 
Least successful? C'mon man this stuff is easily googled. He was on NE's staff for 5 years in various roles working his way up to OC. You don't think BB would've kept this dude around & kept promoting him up the ranks if he didn't think he was a good coach do you?

Plus all of the praise BB uses when BOB's name is mentioned.
 
Very successful non-practicing lawyer. It's not you'll spin anything. It's you spin everything.

Not practicing anymore.

She gave up her career to take care of her handicapped child. Something you may be incapable of understanding.
 
Not practicing anymore.

She gave up her career to take care of her handicapped child. Something you may be incapable of understanding.

I said nothing negative about why she doesn't practice. My comment was about you making crap up. You just couldn't resist, had to bolster OB by proxy.

Inane conversation anyway. All NFL HCs & GMs are "smart enough."
 
I said nothing negative about why she doesn't practice. My comment was about you making crap up. You just couldn't resist, had to bolster OB by proxy.

Inane conversation anyway. All NFL HCs & GMs are "smart enough."

No need to bolster, just stating facts.

Agreed about inane conversation, lets move on.
 




Greaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!!!!!!!!!!! Very reassuring!:toropalm:

65899171.jpg
 
Seems like if Smith was out only for a year the ass't GM could fill that role til Smith returned. Also, I keep coming back to how well team did with Watson and how coach apparently changed offense to fit DW. Was it simply Watson doing what he does or did Obrien help? IMO, for now I want to see that combo again 2018. If OBrien will play final contract year without extension that is my choice; even with an extension he can be fired if 2017 games with Watson at helm was magic that cannot be found next season. OBrien should be confident enough to put all on line for one year & leaving a QB that DW appears to be should be tough on him.
 
Seems like if Smith was out only for a year the ass't GM could fill that role til Smith returned. Also, I keep coming back to how well team did with Watson and how coach apparently changed offense to fit DW. Was it simply Watson doing what he does or did Obrien help? IMO, for now I want to see that combo again 2018. If OBrien will play final contract year without extension that is my choice; even with an extension he can be fired if 2017 games with Watson at helm was magic that cannot be found next season. OBrien should be confident enough to put all on line for one year & leaving a QB that DW appears to be should be tough on him.

obviously with the praise Watson throws at Obrien, Watson doesn't believe it's all him. so I will take our qb's word for it. he likes working with OB, because OB ask his input on the game plans. ask him what he likes to run, and does a pretty good job of scheming for him. apparently his love of obrien hasnt declined since we drafted him, I remember being shocked at how him and Jordan Palmer were gushing over getting to work with OB
 
So why would I take a GM job where the previous GM is not retiring, has stated he plans to return, and will be an ominous dark cloud over possibly my only shot at this in my career?
 
Should he report to OBrien?

That would be different. Do you like the structure and results of (and from) the Texans organization so far? I'm going to go ahead and write it - the McNair's are football stupid. Bob has already proven he will circumnavigate the coaching staff and with bad results. Texian was right about one thing - the McNair's need to hire the right GM and get the **** out of his way. And I don't care if that means firing OB. Fine, I'm all for it. Just as long as Cal and Bob leave the football operations to the people who know what they're doing. Just sign the damn checks and shut the hell up during the ownership meetings. Simple.
 
I would think there's no saved seats but he does sit by Cal .

Ricky is out of the personnel business unless Raye is hired at GM and keeps the seat warm for Ricky. Otherwise the new GM will be calling the personnel shots. I know many don't want BOB here but if they hire a new GM from outside the org I hope he and BOB have the same philosophy when it comes to acquiring personnel and can get the McNair's on board, since most likely BOB will be receiving an extension.
 
That would be different. Do you like the structure and results of (and from) the Texans organization so far? I'm going to go ahead and write it - the McNair's are football stupid. Bob has already proven he will circumnavigate the coaching staff and with bad results. Texian was right about one thing - the McNair's need to hire the right GM and get the **** out of his way. And I don't care if that means firing OB. Fine, I'm all for it. Just as long as Cal and Bob leave the football operations to the people who know what they're doing. Just sign the damn checks and shut the hell up during the ownership meetings. Simple.

answering to the mcnairs doesn't mean he has to run decisions by them, doesn't mean they have a say in those decisions. it does mean when he messes up he deals with them, and not Obrien. obrien is getting personnel control, he doesn't want personnel control he just wants a gm who shares his vision and can acquire players to suit that vision.
 
OB had accepted the Penn State job before McDaniels returned. OB's announcement was Jan. 7th, McDaniels joined the Pats Jan. 8th.
....still.... that's an awwwful quick turnaround ain't.
...one day?! Was McDaniels at home sitting by the phone?
Negotiations had to have been going on behind the scenes before those announcements were made.
 
....still.... that's an awwwful quick turnaround ain't.
...one day?! Was McDaniels at home sitting by the phone?
Negotiations had to have been going on behind the scenes before those announcements were made.

McDaniels was OC for the Rams. His last game was Jan. 1st. Between the 1st and 8th the Rams gave permission for McDaniels to go work the post-season for NE. OB started talks with Penn State in late November.

If someone was under-performing it was McDaniels who was allowed to go after one season at OC - 32nd ranked O.

@steelbtexan see this is what objective looks like. An unfounded criticism was leveled at OB.
 
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