Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

All encompassing Bill O'Brien thread

TxnsJuggernaut said:
I think the loss of the second round pick is strictly on BO'b. Which was due to the fight BO'b and Os got into. BO'b should have tried to work past that and kept Os one more season. To now lose both first and second round picks on the same season to the same sorry team is inexcusable. I am not sure of the scenario in regards to Garoppolo and Bridgewater but I would venture to say that both coach and GM could not come together and so to me the blame is on both.
Click to expand...

That trade of the second round pick was right around the same time the Texans were gunning for Romo. Jerry Jones saw it happened and that we were in the race and stopped his release.

OB and Os didn’t get along but everyone knew Os was not a solution at QB. He was another Hoyer with worse accuracy and touch.

I don’t know how that’s all on OB. He doesn’t make the decision to trade draft picks.
 
infantrycak said:
Then let him leave. You don't promote your best coach into gopher.



I think so. The playcalling problems we're plain to see. OB had already taken playcalling away of his own accord. I see no reason to interject outside command without evidence.



I'd prefer RS be fired along with OB. But I don't believe he is responsible for all ills either. Eg everyone going off on the OL. We built a damn fine OL while RS was GM. One of the best. What he woke up one day and decided not to give a fu@k? - the day after OB arrived. And I don't believe he is some evil plotter trying to get OB fired
Click to expand...

Being the fact that Romeo Crennels contract was due to expire the week after he was promoted to Assistant HC I still believe the decision to promote him and give him more money was Rick Smith's. I have yet to understand what the hell it is that RAC does these days for a living. All I know is his title. I don't know what he actually does. What ever it is, it's not making the team better.
 
There are plenty of AHC/OC or DCs out there. Give him the title and money to keep him but leave him in charge of the D.

Coaching staff is almost 100% on the HC barring a stupid budget dispute.
 
TexansBull said:
That trade of the second round pick was right around the same time the Texans were gunning for Romo. Jerry Jones saw it happened and that we were in the race and stopped his release.

OB and Os didn’t get along but everyone knew Os was not a solution at QB. He was another Hoyer with worse accuracy and touch.

I don’t know how that’s all on OB. He doesn’t make the decision to trade draft picks.
Click to expand...
I am sure BO'b and RS discussed the situation thoroughly and when it came to brass tax the trading of Os for such a steep price was determined by a whole lot more than his lack of skills. It boiled down to BO'b telling RS he wanted no part in having that cancer "Os" on his team.

As I said before BO'b is not alone on an island left out of any trades or draft choices. I am sure final say is with RS but it is an accepted part of the relationship that RS works with BO'b and I have no doubts that BO'b has had an influence on the team beyond just being head coach and OC.

For all the money the team paid Os you would think that Bob McNair and RS would have rather let Os remain on the team. Be it he plays or sits. Giving up a high draft choice to get rid of a player is unheard of. The player that lost pick turns into ought to be interesting to find out for sure. I know I wish we still had that pick. I could care less if Os had to stew on the sidelines as long as we did not have to give up so much to get rid of him. Heck we could have just cut him and lost nothing in return.
 
Last edited:
infantrycak said:
There are plenty of AHC/OC or DCs out there. Give him the title and money to keep him but leave him in charge of the D.

Coaching staff is almost 100% on the HC barring a stupid budget dispute.
Click to expand...


That would be my move.

So do we give Vrable another year? Move him to ST coach? Send him to SF?

I saw nothing to suggest that Vrable added anything positive to our defense, quite the contrary.

It would be interesting to know whether or not Obrien wanted to make the change in D coordinator last year.

Personally I believe McNuggett and the godfather interfered. JMO.

:coffee:
 
TxnsJuggernaut said:
I am sure BO'b and RS discussed the situation thoroughly and when it came to brass tax the trading of Os for such a steep price was determined by a whole lot more than his lack of skills. It boiled down to BO'b telling RS he wanted no part in having that cancer "Os" on his team.

As I said before BO'b is not alone on an island left out of any trades or draft choices. I am sure final say is with RS but it is an accepted part of the relationship that RS works with BO'b and I have no doubts that BO'b has had an influence on the team beyond just being head coach and OC.

For all the money the team paid Os you would think that Bob McNair and RS would have rather let Os remain on the team. Be it he plays or sits. Giving up a high draft choice to get rid of a player is unheard of. The player that lost pick turns into ought to be interesting to find out for sure. I know I wish we still had that pick. I could care less if Os had to stew on the sidelines as long as we did not have to give up so much to get rid of him. Heck we could have just cut him and lost nothing in return.
Click to expand...

Why couldn't it just be that Oz was that terrible & needed to be done away with right away?

Your assumptions are faulty in thinking the FO/HC knew going into this season they were going to be bad. #1, Teams don't think like that..especially those coming off a playoff appearance. 2, this assumption that Ricky was going to make something out of that 2nd rounder we gave Cleveland has to at least be somewhat silly given the track record in the draft outside of the 1st round. 3rd....i mean Oz was that bad & BoB wouldn't have to really say anything to push him out the door. He was pretty much the worst starting qb in the league last year.................................. like literally.

bottoms in # of TD's thrown amongst starters with 15....
bottoms in total yardage thrown for amongst starters ................not even cracking 3000 yds
bottoms in QBR rating amongst starters @ 72
He was also in the top 5 for INT's thrown at 16.

Dude was booed unmercifully at NRG last year....best believe McNair heard that along with him watch as Oz raped his eyes with garbage play.


Finally, the money was less of a factor once Cleveland decided to take on 10 of the 12 million he was guaranteed in his 2nd year. the 2nd rounder was neccessary to throw in to entice the Browns b/c even they wanted no parts of him. In any event, that 10 million we recouped has the potential to help us in FA this year with Seattle's whole secondary in play.
 
zshawn10 said:
John Clayton thinks that BOB and the Texans will part ways; around the 4:00 minute mark:

http://sports.mynorthwest.com/category/podcast_player/?a=10025936&sid=1141&n=John+Clayton
Click to expand...

Interesting that he does this with Sean Salisbury. I still remember their on-air blowups on ESPN and when Salisbury called Clayton the Crypt Keeper. Maybe they just had that kind of rapport.

Clayton says that this may be the blackest of black Mondays, but Salisbury thinks it'll be around eight coaches, which we've seen in not-too-distant history. Clayton says that O'Brien would cause the biggest ripple effect since he'd be at the top of the candidate list, primarily Arizona.
 
Aaron Wilson@AaronWilson_NFL

Texans in turmoil: Relationship between coach Bill O'Brien, GM Rick Smith called 'toxic' http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-in-turmoil-Relationship-between-coach-12462052.php?utm_campaign=twitter-premium&utm_source=CMS%20Sharing%20Button&utm_medium=social … via @HoustonChron

1:17 PM - Dec 29, 2017

While the four-year partnership between O'Brien and Smith has produced two AFC South division titles, the relationship between the two is characterized as problematic and could lead to an either-or-situation going forward, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation but not authorized to speak publicly.

"It's toxic," one source said. "It's dysfunctional."

Another source speculated that Smith and O'Brien could keep working together but that it would be an "uneasy alliance" that's somewhat untenable.

A third source with knowledge of the situation said he would be "kind of surprised" if the Texans don't make a change.

While O'Brien has always described his relationship with Smith as good, this has been a time of serious uncertainty with a fair amount of anxiety at Kirby Drive as McNair, who likes continuity, contemplates how he'll proceed. Should McNair decide to punt and put off the decision until O'Brien's contract expires next year, sources say the Texans could be maintaining a difficult work environment.

O'Brien is entering the final year of his contract in 2018. If O'Brien becomes available through a firing - O'Brien has stated he won't quit - or via a trade, which would be a complicated scenario that would involve a hefty amount of draft-pick compensation, he would arguably become the top free agent coach on the marketplace with several franchises interested in acquiring the former New England Patriots offensive coordinator and Penn State coach.

Among the many potential destinations for O'Brien, if he becomes available, and jobs become open: Tampa Bay with general manager Jason Licht, who worked for the Patriots previously, Detroit with general manager Bob Quinn, who also worked in New England, Arizona with general manager Steve Keim and Tennessee with general manager Jon Robinson, who also has a New England background.

It would be an ideal time for O'Brien to become a free agent because industry sources predict so many head-coaching positions will be available in this hiring cycle.

"I think Bill is an excellent football coach," said former Texans and Washington general manager Charley Casserly, an NFL Network analyst. "I think if he were a free agent, he would have a job before he left the building and got home."

The Texans have endured a rough year, including experiencing Hurricane Harvey.

"OB can flat-out coach," said an NFL executive, who asked not to be identified when speaking about another team's coach. "I would have him on a very short list of guys I would want to talk with right away if we were in the market for a coach. When Watson was healthy, they had it rolling. When he got hurt, they just weren't the same team.

"What he did with Watson this year and previously with Tom Brady is impressive and I've heard good things about him as a leader. It will be interesting to see what happens with them."

O'Brien said this week that he would be willing to coach the Texans next season, even without a contract extension. That would an unusual, but not unprecedented situation.
Click to expand...
 
Mr teX said:
Im having a hard time believing this many people have access to the Texans FO. Its looking more and more like folks are just throwing this out there based on the fact BoB hasn't signed an extension yet.
Click to expand...

I agree. We collectively follow the Texans FO since 2002 more than just about anyone else not named John McClain. And the best we can put together is a composite picture based on quotes and interviews from various former coaches and current management over the years. That composite picture is neither complete nor completely clear at this point.

Unless this is being leaked on purpose to advance an agenda, I agree that it is throwing crap at a wall to see what sticks. I do think the possibility exists of it being leaks, though, because Rick Smith basically did the same thing to Kubiak in 2013 in various ways.

Rick Smith is going to be the last man standing and that is just going to suck balls. <---that's me throwing crap at the wall ;)
 
Mr teX said:
Im having a hard time believing this many people have access to the Texans FO. Its looking more and more like folks are just throwing this out there based on the fact BoB hasn't signed an extension yet.
Click to expand...

Anonymous sources connected to members of this board and to the Chronicle have been accurate in years past. There has also been a history of "leaks" to the media that happened to benefit Rick Smith. Most of this stuff thrown at the wall tends to stick.

What disturbs me about this story is that their reason for firing O'Brien is a poor working relationship. Tell me he makes bad decisions, or that he's too loyal to under-performing coaches, but don't tell me it's because you don't get along. That's the reason SF said they fired Harbaugh, and that's not justifiable.
 
As bad as it is, i don't think Mcnair want to let him go, but he does know BoB wants changes to how things are done with how the roster is shaped and he knows that alot of those changes directly impede on what Smith has always done. I get the sense that this is strictly about football For BoB, whereas for Smith it's about his career within the organization. So in that regard i don't think he gives a flip about where he winds up in the organization as long as he's climbing that corporate ladder & staying in the organization.

Then too, These last few years have been rough on McNair Sr with his health & then the controversial comments he made earlier this year. Maybe all of the turmoil in the FO has to do with whether McNair Sr is weighing whether he wants to remain the face of Texans ownership or turn everything over to Cal. Either way, BoB's extension & Smith's place in the organization are directly affected by his decision.
 
Double Barrel said:
I agree. We collectively follow the Texans FO since 2002 more than just about anyone else not named John McClain. And the best we can put together is a composite picture based on quotes and interviews from various former coaches and current management over the years. That composite picture is neither complete nor completely clear at this point.

Unless this is being leaked on purpose to advance an agenda, I agree that it is throwing crap at a wall to see what sticks. I do think the possibility exists of it being leaks, though, because Rick Smith basically did the same thing to Kubiak in 2013 in various ways.

Rick Smith is going to be the last man standing and that is just going to suck balls. <---that's me throwing crap at the wall ;)
Click to expand...

Remember when I said BOB would be gone one way or the other at the end of the yr? I think we're just beginning to see why Gaine was willing to take a lateral job in Buffalo of all places.

Tricky Ricky with some of his finest work.
 
Mr teX said:
Im having a hard time believing this many people have access to the Texans FO. Its looking more and more like folks are just throwing this out there based on the fact BoB hasn't signed an extension yet.
Click to expand...
It's coming from Aaron Wilson which increases the credibility of it
 
zshawn10 said:
Aaron Wilson@AaronWilson_NFL

Texans in turmoil: Relationship between coach Bill O'Brien, GM Rick Smith called 'toxic' http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-in-turmoil-Relationship-between-coach-12462052.php?utm_campaign=twitter-premium&utm_source=CMS%20Sharing%20Button&utm_medium=social … via @HoustonChron

1:17 PM - Dec 29, 2017
Click to expand...

I think for the most part and assume that a lot of people would rather see Smith go vs OB given the choice between the two. Not because OB is great, but because Smith is the worse of the two and he will be much harder to get rid of. Everyone pretty much would rather see both go if that choice is on the table - but one goes and one stays is more likely than both going. And it is more likely OB goes than both going. There is a small chance he actually remains and a smaller chance of an extension. (I still think he will get an extension to 2020. Not because I like him but it would be a McNair type thing to do.)

However - if this guy must go - and he is so well respected around the league and will have a job immediately next year - why can’t we do a sign and trade for him to get a draft pick? It would dumb not to atleast not attempt it.

I am not expecting a Gruden type of haul, but a bag of chips would be nice.
 
Brisco_County said:
Anonymous sources connected to members of this board and to the Chronicle have been accurate in years past. There has also been a history of "leaks" to the media that happened to benefit Rick Smith. Most of this stuff thrown at the wall tends to stick.

What disturbs me about this story is that their reason for firing O'Brien is a poor working relationship. Tell me he makes bad decisions, or that he's too loyal to under-performing coaches, but don't tell me it's because you don't get along. That's the reason SF said they fired Harbaugh, and that's not justifiable.
Click to expand...

How long did it San Fran to recover from the Harbaugh break up? And they ended up getting rid of the GM any way.
 
Mr teX said:
We'll never really know what happened in 2014 with Garapolo and/or Bridgewater & what led to the Oz signing. Maybe Bob wanted either of those guys & Smith just committed a serious gaffe twice in trying to wait for those guys to fall so as to get those guys at the right value for the pick. Obviously we know what happened, we were jumped by Minny & NE. In that regard, it casts the Oz signing last year as a panic move by Smith when McNair & probably BoB started getting on Smith's ass for missing out in 2014 & not selecting a qb high in the draft for 2015. Which is in turn is what set the stage for Smith to do the complete opposite of what he'd done in the previous drafts when he moved up to make sure he got his hands on Watson.
Click to expand...

I think this was the first fork in the road. Sitting on your hands and letting Garapolo go to NE bad. When your new head coach wants a QB you make that happen. Yeah sure take Clowney, but you needed to trade up and get that QB. I personally wish if we have to have a new coach, it was Dabo Sweeney. All great QBs have a great coach attached to them. Brees and Peyton, Manning and Dungey, Hoodie and Brady, Montana and Walsh. There is a long list of this....Obrien and Watson seem to have that same chemistry. I wish Smith would go, but it will probably be Obrien
 
It's the good ol boy oil/gas system being employed by McNair. Hire a bunch of your buddies then blame the lowest level employees for failures. It's a cultural flap that isn't likely to go away with a 'good ol boy' owner.
 
If O'Brien is to be let go I suspect it will happen very soon as he would be in demand as a HC elsewhere and the owner would need to let him know quickly so he can begin the interview process else where because O'Brien is clearly not the kind of a guy who would be content to be idled an entire offseason. And I really think he'd accept nothing less than an extended term to his current contract if he's to remain which very well might be the show stopper for McNair.
 
Mr teX said:
Why couldn't it just be that Oz was that terrible & needed to be done away with right away?

Your assumptions are faulty in thinking the FO/HC knew going into this season they were going to be bad. #1, Teams don't think like that..especially those coming off a playoff appearance. 2, this assumption that Ricky was going to make something out of that 2nd rounder we gave Cleveland has to at least be somewhat silly given the track record in the draft outside of the 1st round. 3rd....i mean Oz was that bad & BoB wouldn't have to really say anything to push him out the door. He was pretty much the worst starting qb in the league last year.................................. like literally.

bottoms in # of TD's thrown amongst starters with 15....
bottoms in total yardage thrown for amongst starters ................not even cracking 3000 yds
bottoms in QBR rating amongst starters @ 72
He was also in the top 5 for INT's thrown at 16.

Dude was booed unmercifully at NRG last year....best believe McNair heard that along with him watch as Oz raped his eyes with garbage play.


Finally, the money was less of a factor once Cleveland decided to take on 10 of the 12 million he was guaranteed in his 2nd year. the 2nd rounder was neccessary to throw in to entice the Browns b/c even they wanted no parts of him. In any event, that 10 million we recouped has the potential to help us in FA this year with Seattle's whole secondary in play.
Click to expand...

Agree with all your points. Osweiler has been the only person able to slow Hopkins down. Hopkins' down year last year wasn't some anomaly in his career. Oz just sucked that bad.

Smith sold a 2nd round pick for cash to erase a mistake the organization made. Oz was/is a terrible QB and a liability for any team, including the Browns. Getting rid of him wasn't because OB didn't like him. That's just pure spin and BS.
 
gary said:
The owner is the overall problem with this team! Either by design or he just doesn't have enough football knowledge!
Click to expand...

He doesn't need football knowledge, he needs to hire a guy with knowledge.

McCloughan
Wolf
Polian

Etc... and let them do their jobs as best they can to put a more talented team on the field.
 
infantrycak said:
Great theory except neither RS nor OB were McNair buddies when hired.
Click to expand...

RS was buddies with Kubes and the McNair's gave Kubes who he wanted. Wonder if Kubes answers RS calls these days?

BTW, Do you still think the Glazer report about the Texans being a dysfunctional org and BOB wanting out was BS?
 
Last edited:
IDEXAN said:
If O'Brien is to be let go I suspect it will happen very soon as he would be in demand as a HC elsewhere and the owner would need to let him know quickly so he can begin the interview process else where because O'Brien is clearly not the kind of a guy who would be content to be idled an entire offseason. And I really think he'd accept nothing less than an extended term to his current contract if he's to remain which very well might be the show stopper for McNair.
Click to expand...

McNair is going to have to extend and give more power to BOB to get him to stay.

# Not gonna happen
 
Texan_fan_13 said:
I think this was the first fork in the road. Sitting on your hands and letting Garapolo go to NE bad. When your new head coach wants a QB you make that happen. Yeah sure take Clowney, but you needed to trade up and get that QB. I personally wish if we have to have a new coach, it was Dabo Sweeney. All great QBs have a great coach attached to them. Brees and Peyton, Manning and Dungey, Hoodie and Brady, Montana and Walsh. There is a long list of this....Obrien and Watson seem to have that same chemistry. I wish Smith would go, but it will probably be Obrien
Click to expand...

There is no evidence OBrien wanted those guys.

He wanted his new england retreads.

Even Texans fans were super excited for Mallet and Osweiler
 
When all the boos in the stadium came in during AJ's induction to the Ring of Honor when Rick's name was mentioned................Rick and McNair just looked at each other and giggled like two preteen girls. That tells me all I need to know about how much McNair especially feels about how the direction his team is being led.
 
zshawn10 said:
Matt Hammond

✔@MattHammondShow

Bill O’Brien:

- doubled the # of winning seasons
- doubled the # of division titles
- developed the franchise QB, who publicly vouched for him, twice

You fire that guy, because he doesn’t get along with the GM, no coach who’s worth a **** takes this job

4:48 PM - Dec 29, 2017
Click to expand...

Can anyone guess which teams in need of a new HC will not be interested in Bill O'Brien? My guess is the Colts and possibly the Titans. They know why these numbers are not impressive.

- doubled the # of winning seasons
- doubled the # of division titles
Click to expand...

Because of Romeo Crennel vs a hapless AFC South. Unless anyone actually credits an Osweiler/Hoyer/Mallet offense for 9-7 records.

- developed the franchise QB, who publicly vouched for him, twice
Click to expand...

"Developed" as in temporarily adopted a QB-familiar college-style system.

You fire that guy, because he doesn’t get along with the GM, no coach who’s worth a **** takes this job
Click to expand...

An overstatement, but halfway correct. The reason for the firing needs to reflect well on the franchise, and the "toxic relationship" narrative does not. Regardless, Houston is still a favorable destination for any head coach for now.

This tweet exemplifies national sports media -- A lazy reliance on herd sentiment and surface numbers rather than detached analysis. This specific approach is the reason why Charlie Weis, Rex Ryan, or Eric Mangini were crowned by the media as genius messiahs of the coaching carousels of their respective eras. Next in line will be Bill O'Brien, who never got a fair shot in the "toxic" (anyone sick of that buzzword, BTW?) environment of Houston, as the narrative will say. Funny how Bill Parcels and Tom Coughlin never received that crown when they were available, nor had any use for it.
 
infantrycak said:
Where do you get the idea OB has an option? If he doesn't show up for the Texans he can't work in the NFL.
Click to expand...

You're correct but if he doesn't want to be here and Ricky doesn't want him here BOB's gone.

If McNair doesn't extend BOB and he has a winning season then BOB will be a FA next offseason and in great demand. If BOB has a losing season and Watson gets hurt again BOB will be in demand. Either situation McNair will walk away before it comes to having to pay/give BOB more power and McNair doesn't want to take the chance of losing BOB and getting egg on his face.
 
Thanks for describing your decision making. Given how much you disagree with McNair I'm dubious of your predictive ability for his.

Remind me of the HCs who have redeemed themselves in the last year of a contract and then walked away?
 
ColeThornton said:
That's why so many of us keep beating the weak AFC South drum. At 9-7 in one of the weakest divisions of all time, I don't think we would even be having this conversation if he had coached in a good division. He would have never won a division and had a losing record going into this year. It's not his fault he was lucky but with all the games played outside the division, isn't it obvious he sucks against good teams. He's the master at taking out the trash and padding stats in garbage time but you are what your record says you are and he's 4-17 against better teams according to Wolf's post.
Click to expand...

Maybe the Texans talent level isn't good enough to hang with the good teams outside the division. People dont want to hear that though.
 
infantrycak said:
Thanks for describing your decision making. Given how much you disagree with McNair I'm dubious of your predictive ability for his.

Remind me of the HCs who have redeemed themselves in the last year of a contract and then walked away?
Click to expand...

Walsh for one.

You just cant stand that I was right about the dysfunction and that the Texans were going to have a bad season.
 
ColeThornton said:
LOL funny post! Sorry Cloak, your posts are priceless...
At least I don't think you get paid, like the authors of the articles found on Google.
But heck, maybe you do and they don't.
Click to expand...

He's probably written more articles in his field than those authors and certainly is more knowledgeable in his field.
 
steelbtexan said:
He doesn't need football knowledge, he needs to hire a guy with knowledge.

McCloughan
Wolf
Polian

Etc... and let them do their jobs as best they can to put a more talented team on the field.
Click to expand...
But football knowledge is needed in order to hire these people who you list! Either he just doesn't have it or he just doesn't care enough!
 
steelbtexan said:
He doesn't need football knowledge, he needs to hire a guy with knowledge.

McCloughan
Wolf
Polian

Etc... and let them do their jobs as best they can to put a more talented team on the field.
Click to expand...
But football knowledge is needed in order to hire these people who you list! Either he just doesn't have it or he just doesn't care enough!
 
steelbtexan said:
He went to Stanford.

Facts not Flattery and it wasn't even hard to see the chickens coming home to roost.
Click to expand...


He was the OC for the Bengals and then was the HC for Stanford . After that was hired by the 49ers and the rest is history . Well except he thought about trading Montana for Elway when Elway was drafted .
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
He was the OC for the Bengals and then was the HC for Stanford . After that was hired by the 49ers and the rest is history . Well except he thought about trading Montana for Elway when Elway was drafted .
Click to expand...

He won 3 SBs with the Niners including 1988 and then quit NFL coaching. After a 3 year hiatus from coaching he went back to Stanford for 3 years, then re-retired for good.

His situation had zilch to do with the question posed.
 
infantrycak said:
He won 3 SBs with the Niners including 1988 and then quit NFL coaching. After a 3 year hiatus from coaching he went back to Stanford for 3 years, then re-retired for good.

His situation had zilch to do with the question posed.
Click to expand...

I know that . Walsh said he loved coaching at Standford because they could learn the playbook .
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
He was the OC for the Bengals and then was the HC for Stanford . After that was hired by the 49ers and the rest is history . Well except he thought about trading Montana for Elway when Elway was drafted .
Click to expand...

Then he retired from the 49ers and went back to Stanford.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top