OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
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State of the O-line
- Thread starter jradMIT
- Start date
If you read my post I never said they should not go after any FA O-linemen. I said "I don't agree that LT has to be addressed in FA." I never said they couldn't go after a FA Guard or RT if they want. I also said that I thought Davenport is being groomed for the LT spot. That doesn't mean sitting him on the bench all next season. It means he will work on building his strength and develop his technique this off season (January 2018 through Training Camp 2018) and then start at LT in game one 2018!
I also never said they had to use 2 of their 3rd rd picks to move up to the 2nd rd. I said "since they will probably have three 3rd rd picks and probably some extra comp picks in later rounds, they have the means to move up to the 2nd rd in the draft and get a good OT that they can play at RT." I also said "Is it an ideal situation? No, but it is another option."
So, to put it all together, there are many options the Texans could choose in regards to putting the O-line together next season. Here is one option:
LT - Davenport, Clark as Swing OT
LG - FA or Mancz
OC- Martin, Fuller as backup
RG- Mancz or Allen
RT- 2nd rd pick or FA
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
My Mock OL 2018
LT- Robinson (FA- DET- 1-2 YR Deal)
LG- Martin
OC- Ragnow (R- Arkansas)
RG- Mancz
RT- Jones (R- Ohio St)
OT- Davenport, Clark (FA), Spain (R- North Carolina)
OC/OG- Allen, Fuller, Mahon (R- Penn St)
Robinson would be on a prove it contract. If Martin could be a projected Day 1 starter in his 1st season, I'd say Ragnow could do the same thing. Jamarcus Jones is a LT who could learn on the right side until he's ready for the move. Bentley Spain and Davenport can compete for playing time since all 3 would have time at RT but all 3 are solid LT's. Every LT on this list could play RT and every G could play C or vice versa.
Also, throw Gesicki (TE- Penn St) into this mix since he is a capable blocker and route runner with good hands.
It's a young group but in all honesty, they wouldn't be any worse than the crew the team ran onto the field this season. At least with good coaching the potential for a good young OL with quality depth could exist for a more than few seasons.
LT- Robinson (FA- DET- 1-2 YR Deal)
LG- Martin
OC- Ragnow (R- Arkansas)
RG- Mancz
RT- Jones (R- Ohio St)
OT- Davenport, Clark (FA), Spain (R- North Carolina)
OC/OG- Allen, Fuller, Mahon (R- Penn St)
Robinson would be on a prove it contract. If Martin could be a projected Day 1 starter in his 1st season, I'd say Ragnow could do the same thing. Jamarcus Jones is a LT who could learn on the right side until he's ready for the move. Bentley Spain and Davenport can compete for playing time since all 3 would have time at RT but all 3 are solid LT's. Every LT on this list could play RT and every G could play C or vice versa.
Also, throw Gesicki (TE- Penn St) into this mix since he is a capable blocker and route runner with good hands.
It's a young group but in all honesty, they wouldn't be any worse than the crew the team ran onto the field this season. At least with good coaching the potential for a good young OL with quality depth could exist for a more than few seasons.
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I agree, he's a value at those numbers, he can still play and he's a good football player, a competent CB.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
O'Brien says he can see Allen playing LT the rest of the season.
You know when I first saw Allen was playing LT I thought it would be a dumpster fire, BUT, other than the 3 consecutive FS at the end, he held up fairly well. I was in favor of cutting him at the end of the season now I’m wondering how he’d do at LG.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
That was his natural position before he came here from the Chiefs. I've been pointing that out that he has been playing out of position from the beginning when he was placed at RG.
Good point. When the Texans signed Allen, I thought they were getting a very strong LG with good footwork who was still improving. As fans, we tend to minimize position changes. We propose moving a CB to S or moving a lineman from the right side to the left and expect immediate success. I read where players mention moving from one side to the next and having to adjust their stance and footwork is like watching yourself in a mirror. Some adapt, but many more fail to adjust. I guess we can add Allen to the long list who were not effective moving from one side to the next.
I don't know if due to injuries or the move, but we have not seen plays like these from him:
https://twitter.com/RealMNchiefsfan/status/704827950831566848
https://twitter.com/RealMNchiefsfan/status/705540771517063169
Yep, I don't think BOB has much choice. They are already at the bottom of the barrel and BOB is doing what he can to make it to the end of the season by "reshuffling the deck." Or, maybe he's just "reshuffling the deckchairs on the Titanic!"
Yep, I don't think BOB has much choice. They are already at the bottom of the barrel and BOB is doing what he can to make it to the end of the season by "reshuffling the deck." Or, maybe he's just "reshuffling the deckchairs on the Titanic!"
Allen looked better at LT than he has at RG. Except for the false starts on the last drive.
adama51
Walk-on
That coaching part is what I'm not too confident about. Maybe its the fact that he has to make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t with injuries and poor talent but last years line was more stable and wasn't much better than this current line. DB was really the only saving grace.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
You mean the trifecta?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Yeah that along with all the injuries in that game was our season in a nutshell.
Neglected
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Probably could have started this thread with this in the OP and closed it. Best description.
Did I hear that Lamm went out of the game due to a concussion? I know they had Slade in there for some plays and he was just brought up from the Practice Squad to take Clark's roster spot. If Lamm is out now I'm wondering if they will finally bring up DQ from the PS. If they don't, I wonder if that's a sign they just don't think he will ever be good enough to play at this level again.
This has been a very bad year for the O-line and now they may have lost Martin, their only good lineman, for the last 2 games. Saw this in the chron.com: http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/...ck-Martin-suffers-pretty-serious-12437472.php. Nothing about surgery in the article. I guess if there is a silver lining in all of this it's that Davenport and Fuller will get to play more and hopefully gain much needed experience for next season. Also, on the bright side, the O-line only gave up 4 sacks yesterday instead of 10 like they did in their 1st meeting with "Sacksonville!" 
Did the rookie olinemen, especially Davenport, show us anything yesterday that could be construed as grounds for optimism ? Anything ?This has been a very bad year for the O-line and now they may have lost Martin, their only good lineman, for the last 2 games. Saw this in the chron.com: http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/...ck-Martin-suffers-pretty-serious-12437472.php. Nothing about surgery in the article. I guess if there is a silver lining in all of this it's that Davenport and Fuller will get to play more and hopefully gain much needed experience for next season. Also, on the bright side, the O-line only gave up 4 sacks yesterday instead of 10 like they did in their 1st meeting with "Sacksonville!"
Yep, Ricky has done a great job with 3rd rd picks in the last decade.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Here is the complete list of Texans 3rd round picks (last decade):-
2007 - Jacoby Jones
2008 - Antwuan Molden
2009 - Antoine Caldwell
2010 - Earl Mitchell
2011 - No pick
2012 - Brennan Williams, Sam Montgomery (drugs)
2013 - CJ Fido, Loius NixIII
2014 - Jaelen Strong
2015 - Braxton Miller
2016 - Donta Foreman.
Some misses in there but some good ones too - as long as you aren't expecting first round talent, but starters.
Show me a team that did better.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
Lol who the hell on that list was good? Just because they started for our sorry team doesn’t make them good.
The only player who started for 3 yrs is Mitchell
I'm not going to look but I would assume that many teams have done better. Look at how many of these guys are out of the NFL. Pretty pathetic if you ask me, no wonder depth is lacking.
How somebody could think this list is good simply amazes me. Looks like Ricky should use the 3rds and future 3rds to trade up into 2nd and get a couple of OL
2018 two 3rds for a 2018 2nd.
2018 3rd and 2019 3rd for a 2018 2nd.
Take the best 2 OL available and try to pick up an OL in FA seems like a great plan after looking at that decade of 3rd rd failures list.
Ricky needs to trade up badly.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
So pick shy with plenty of holes the solution is trade away more picks. Don't think so.
Better to get 2 guys that can play, rather than hope Ricky can improve on his sh!tty 3rd rd record.
Looking at that list of players Ricky has drafted in the 3rd rd what do you think the odds are Ricky can find 2 quality starters in the 3rd rd?
I would say it's more likely he will pick busts that will be cut in a couple of yrs after the only reason they hung around as long as they did was because they were Ricky's draft picks. Ateast that's what Ricky's draft history in the 3rd rd would objectively tell you.
Is his record in the 2nd any better?
They were both Casserly
2 out of 10 years ain't stellar... I think it's about on par with the 3rd rnd...
And yep to the bolded, throw in the miserable 4th and 5th explains why depth and special teams have sucked for the entire time
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Neither. Kubiak ran the 2006 draft. After the draft in talking about OD he said he was looking at a S but Casserly convinced him to take OD.
As to RS's horrid 3rd round record I think people just don't look around for perspective. Pulled up one of the teams steelbtexan used to laud, the Seahawks. 2007 on, 13 picks, 2 starters - Russell Wilson & Tyler Lockett.
You also need to take a look at quality depth and ST players. Historically, the Texans have been bad in both areas, including prior to RS.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
I can see two who have started with other teams wi th out even checking.
Like I said at the end of my post, they are fine as long as you dont expect first round talent from the third round.
Go ahead, find me 5 teams that have done better over the last decade.
As to RS's horrid 3rd round record I think people just don't look around for perspective. Pulled up one of the teams steelbtexan used to laud, the Seahawks. 2007 on, 13 picks, 2 starters - Russell Wilson & Tyler Lockett.[/QUOTE]
Ok, I'm going to do the work for you and give you the Seahawks draft record in the 3rd rd and after during the Schnieder/Carroll yrs instead of skewing the record. You should put up the entire Seahawks draft record instead of skewing things to fit your narrative. Also dont just look at who made the team but the quailty of player drafted.
2017- 3rd Shaquille Griffin, starting CB. Nazir Jones DL- rotational contributor, very good player, Amara Darboh- Plays some WR/ST's contributor.
Rd. 4 Tedric Thompson- Backup S, has started since Chancellor got hurt, ST's contributor.
7th - Chris Carson- Starting RB until injured.
2016- 3rd- C.J.Prosiesse- 3rd down back/contributor, constantly injured, Nick Vannett- Backup TE, ST's, Rees Odhiambo- Starting LT got hurt, didn't play well.
4th Rd. Quinton Jefferson- Rotational DE, went into the stands after Jags game.
5th rd. Alex Collins- Starting RB for Baltimore, very good player.
6th Rd. Joey Hunt- Backup C.
2015- 3rd Lockett- You know all about him.
4th rd Mark Glowinski- Starting OG
2014- 3rd Caasius Marsh- Traded to the Pats
4th Kevin Pierre Louis- ST's/backup LB
2013- 5th Tharold Simon- Started playoff games, Luke Wilson, plays alot behind Jimmy Graham, ST's guy, very good player, Spencer ware- Starting RB for the Chiefs until blowing out his ACL.
7th rd- Micheal Bowie- Made team, cut went to Browns and drugged out of league.
2012- Practically their whole draft is playing in the NFL including 3rd rder Russell Wilson. Most are starters.
2011- 4th K.J. Wright - Starting LB
5th Richard Sherman- Best CB in NFL for many yrs.
6th Byron Maxwell- starting CB.
7th Rd Malcolm Smith- Former SB MVP, signed big FA contract with 49ers.
2010- 4th rd Walter Thurmond- Nickel CB signed FA contract with Philly.
5th rd. Kam Chancellor- Pro bowl safety- great player
6th Anthony McCoy- played a few yrs as backup TE and ST's guy.
This doesn't include higher rd picks like Wagner/Thomas/Okung etc... or UDFA's like Baldwin. This is a GM (Schnieder) who burns the midnight oil looking for sleeper picks and knows how to build a roster.
Trying to compare Scnieder's draft record to Ricky's is, well, laughable and you can see the difference between an org that has the philososhy of drafting the best players and letting them play regardless of $$$$. Compared to whatever philosophy it is that Bob/Ricky McNair have. Until their philosophy changes you can expect them to continue to trail orgs like the Seahawks.
Ok, I'm going to do the work for you and give you the Seahawks draft record in the 3rd rd and after during the Schnieder/Carroll yrs instead of skewing the record. You should put up the entire Seahawks draft record instead of skewing things to fit your narrative. Also dont just look at who made the team but the quailty of player drafted.
2017- 3rd Shaquille Griffin, starting CB. Nazir Jones DL- rotational contributor, very good player, Amara Darboh- Plays some WR/ST's contributor.
Rd. 4 Tedric Thompson- Backup S, has started since Chancellor got hurt, ST's contributor.
7th - Chris Carson- Starting RB until injured.
2016- 3rd- C.J.Prosiesse- 3rd down back/contributor, constantly injured, Nick Vannett- Backup TE, ST's, Rees Odhiambo- Starting LT got hurt, didn't play well.
4th Rd. Quinton Jefferson- Rotational DE, went into the stands after Jags game.
5th rd. Alex Collins- Starting RB for Baltimore, very good player.
6th Rd. Joey Hunt- Backup C.
2015- 3rd Lockett- You know all about him.
4th rd Mark Glowinski- Starting OG
2014- 3rd Caasius Marsh- Traded to the Pats
4th Kevin Pierre Louis- ST's/backup LB
2013- 5th Tharold Simon- Started playoff games, Luke Wilson, plays alot behind Jimmy Graham, ST's guy, very good player, Spencer ware- Starting RB for the Chiefs until blowing out his ACL.
7th rd- Micheal Bowie- Made team, cut went to Browns and drugged out of league.
2012- Practically their whole draft is playing in the NFL including 3rd rder Russell Wilson. Most are starters.
2011- 4th K.J. Wright - Starting LB
5th Richard Sherman- Best CB in NFL for many yrs.
6th Byron Maxwell- starting CB.
7th Rd Malcolm Smith- Former SB MVP, signed big FA contract with 49ers.
2010- 4th rd Walter Thurmond- Nickel CB signed FA contract with Philly.
5th rd. Kam Chancellor- Pro bowl safety- great player
6th Anthony McCoy- played a few yrs as backup TE and ST's guy.
This doesn't include higher rd picks like Wagner/Thomas/Okung etc... or UDFA's like Baldwin. This is a GM (Schnieder) who burns the midnight oil looking for sleeper picks and knows how to build a roster.
Trying to compare Scnieder's draft record to Ricky's is, well, laughable and you can see the difference between an org that has the philososhy of drafting the best players and letting them play regardless of $$$$. Compared to whatever philosophy it is that Bob/Ricky McNair have. Until their philosophy changes you can expect them to continue to trail orgs like the Seahawks.
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infantrycak
Hall of Fame
The comparison was apples to apples to the info above, 3rd round past 10 years. Stick your skewing up your wazoo.
The real skewed is your review. Anyone who touched the ball is a valuable pick for the Seahawks. Guy like Jacoby Jones who started games including playoffs, played STs and but for him the Ravens aren't wearing rings...that guy is a busted pick for Houston.
I will give you Jones. Jones isn't as good as the players i'm listing below. The Texans draft Alfred Blue late in the draft. The Seahawks draft Collins/Carson/ Ware if you cant see the difference I'm done here.
How many Wilson/Sherman/Chancellor's has Ricky found in the 3rd rd or later?
Starters/ Glowinski/Carson/Collins/Ware/Wilson/Wright/Sherman/Chancellor/Lane/Maxwell/Smith all drafted in the 3rd rd or later and who are true difference makers are far from guys who touch the ball. There are all pro's and SB MVP's in this group.
Compare and contrast that to Ricky's draft record.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Tired of the change the goalposts game. I respond on topic and then wham it's or later. When did the Seahawks find an Arian Foster UDFA? How about an AJ Bouye UDFA? See how that works.
LOL, I give you 10 examples you give me 2 and Ricky chose to let Bouye walk unlike the Seahawks who re-signed Sherman/Chancellor etc..
It works like this, the Seahawks are much better in the draft than Ricky is and it has shown on the field for a decade now. This truly is a apples to apples comparison.
See how that works.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Tend to agree with one exception - if there is a talented olineman we could nab with two of those 3rds, I would try it.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Hits and misses all over landscape between College & NFL departments.
Question how each is affected by management including coaches?
As with any mock draft, too much emphasis is given to first round selection, after that lesser and lesser front office meddling but maybe more coaching?
In exact science but a great GM should be able to pull them together into a cohesive unit.
Question how each is affected by management including coaches?
As with any mock draft, too much emphasis is given to first round selection, after that lesser and lesser front office meddling but maybe more coaching?
In exact science but a great GM should be able to pull them together into a cohesive unit.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I don't mind trading up. I disagree with it as a generic plan not based on the specifics of how the draft is falling.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
This draft will still hold some interest - with three 3rd rounders, we could still add some decent talent.
This draft is another very deep one for RBs - if a really good one of those were there for the taking, I say go.
Look what happened to this offense once we lost Foster.
Foreman could yet develop, but another dual threat back would add two positions for the price of one - runner, and receiver.
Lamar Miller has not particularly impressed me for his price.
I didn't get to see the whole game and only noticed he was in there one time, but I did see this article in the chron.com today: http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-offensive-line-in-flux-again-12439853.php Here's a quote from the article from BOB:
“He did OK," O'Brien said of Davenport. "He’s young. He’s been injured. He’s going to be good. He’s a great kid, very focused guy. It was some good, some not so good, and he was blocking on some real good guys. So, I think it’ll be a good experience for him.”
Yea when you play the Jags Dline, there's some stiff completion for the rookie for some real experience.
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The Texans have promoted offensive lineman David Quessenberry to the active roster from the practice squad, according to sources not authorized to speak publicly.
www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-promote-OL-David-Quessenberry-12442565.php
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Check it out ! Quess has been promoted to the active roster. Maye just a gesture, but still som real active duty for Quess.
Speaking of historically bad special teams:
On punt coverage, the Texans' gunners are routinely pushed out of bounds, they run out of control and then do not break down to tackle the PRs. They over run the PR, they don't easily disengage from blocks.
On punt returns, the Texans allow the other team's gunners to easily get to the PR. They rarely slow down the gunners. The blocking on returns are atrocious.
On kickoffs, they don't seem to have any concept of lane discipline.
In my opinion, none of these issues have anything to do with depth or even skill. It's simply a matter of coaching and player execution. Why that's always the case, I have no idea.