You're right, but the only competent QB they've had in 15 yrs is Schaub. Why should this yr be any different?
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Sellout for Deshaun Watson
- Thread starter amazing80
- Start date
You're right, but the only competent QB they've had in 15 yrs is Schaub. Why should this yr be any different?
Thank you. The draftnik who can walk on water poo was getting a little deep.
No water to walk on when it comes to finding a QB, but to get one you have to atleast try to draft one high occasionally.
Yeah, even though XSF is finally showing promise on a sadly neglected OL, I wanted Rick to use that pick for Garoppolo. Then we wouldn't be talking about trading 2 #1s for him, like I've been reading.
I know you wanted Garoppolo at 2-1, and I did too. But IIRC, we all thought that was a good pick and were surprised he fell to there
If I remember correctly. At the time, the thought of taking JimmyG at 2-1 was about as popular as taking Tom Savage at 2-1. It's only now, looking back... in what feels like either Savage was never a major part of their QB plan, or he hasn't lived up to their grade, that we bring out the "would've, could've, should've" talk.
Things happened between the 2014 draft & now. Things no one could have predicted. Had things happened the way we thought their plan would play out, we may not be in the position we're in now. If Jd & Jj were wrecking havoc on opposing offenses, if Fiedo was at least playing at Od level, if our OL dominated in the run game, if Arian didn't tear his achilles (that's at least 10 rushing TDs a year)... if Bill O'brien were an offensive guru... Rick, Bob, & us fans can only control so much of that.
Like you said, sometimes, things don't work out. & imo, more of the blame falls on O'b than it does Rick Smith or Bob McNair. Remember back when you said we need speed & lots of it? Well, Rick got it. Lots of it & O'b hasn't done anything with it. But you've heard whispers & rumors that O'brien's hand is being forced.
Still, I believe if his hand were being forced he'd have elected to walk away & find another job, rather than give up his "power" & responsibilities to manage the offense.
The Texans were sitting in the perfect positon in the 2014 Draft after taking the top player with their #1 overall pick and then they had the #1 pick of the second sound with QBs Grarrapalo, Derrick Carr on their Board and they did need a young QB to develop and then they inexplicably drafted an interior OLineman with their #33 overall. They screwed up, it was the perfect opportunity. It's now ancient history, so just forget about it.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
And that was 100% OB. Brand new offensive minded HC putting a new system in to a team with no QB is getting his way on QB.
1st of all this isn't hindsight I wanted Jimmy G at that time. (Apparently if you believe the rumors so did BOB) Kinda like you wanted McCarron. That's a game changer, you would have your QB in place and be filling in holes instead of spending 72 mil on giraffes like Os.
2nd you're right things happen, but the Texans aren't winning crap with Os at QB. Where we differ is that you think BOB is responsible for the Os choice/contrct. I believe fully that was on Bob/Ricky McNair. We've been over this over and over again and our minds aren't going to change.
3rd As long as Os is the QB this offense is going to look like crap. He's a historically bad QB and no amount of play calling/game planning is going to significantly change that,
4th BOB wanted out according to Schefter/Glazer etc... and McNair wouldn't let him out. BOB's no fool, he wasn't going to quit and leave millions on the table. (Neither would either of us) How do we know this, BOB saying things he's never said before at his season ending press conference, basically saying Os stinks and Ricky is in charge of the draft/FA. Things he's never said before. In short he was telling McNair you can make me stay but I'm not playing your games anymore. I'm letting the media know who calls the shots down on Kirby.
I know we will always disagree with most of this post.
Not according to media reports and this yrs BOB season ending press conference.
Ricky McNair is in charge of the draft/FA according to BOB.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You just don't get it. Paper and reality don't always match. Yes on paper Rick in typical GM fashion has final say on that. Reality is OB says 'I want or don't want him' in those circumstances and Rick is rubber stamping. The analysis/desire was OB's although the authority exercised was Rick's. Now in a buck stops here analysis sure it's on Rick, but if the question is desire, that was on OB.
There is zero chance OB said I want Garoppolo and Rick said you can't have him. Although come to think of it that is the autocratic GM model you and Texian espouse.
I just know what BOB's reported desire was by the media and Ricky said Jimmy G will be there in the 3rd. That decision set this team back for atleast 5 yrs.
There were a guy here or there saying they would take Garropolo at 2-1, I'm not saying different. You may have been one of them, I'm just saying it wasn't a popular opinion. Not here, not nationally. Taking Garoppolo at 2-1 would have been as much a shock as taking Bortles with the 3rd overall. It would have been considered an overdraft, unless it worked of course, but there would have been four months of talking about Garoppolo at 2-1 just like there was about Osweiler & $72M.
& that's the point. You can say all day long that's what you would have done. Just like Obama saying he was going to close Gitmo. When it's you, when it's your decision & you'll be held accountable, you don't do a lot of those, "Well I would have..." stuff.
I absolutely disagree with this. We've seen Osweiler look good, better than competent in spots. That's what you're going to get with inexperienced QBs. Whether you get them in the draft or FA. It's the OCs job to get more of those good strings together.
AFCSouth Champs... that's all that matters. Brock did just as much to win those games as anyone on our team. Our WRs weren't running amok through secondaries. Our RBs weren't scoring TDs. Our defense wasn't holding teams to 13 points. They all did what they needed to do to win.
More than anything, I'd like to see a QB in his second season with Bill O'brien. Well, I'd have loved to have seen Fitzpatrick or Mallett in year two with O'brien, but he saw to it that wasn't going to happen. Osweiler was the guy last season, so it would have to be him. It's not that I want to see Osweiler in year two, I want to see a QB in year two & it just happens to be Osweiler.
I'd still draft the best QB I could though.
I don't know that I heard him say Osweiler stinks. Seemed more like he didn't want to let everyone know what his opinion of Osweiler was.
I don't think the Texans have been as secretive as they have been protrayed. They've been pretty open, most people just don't like the answer they get. Rick Smith runs the draft. But he gets input from the coaches as well as the scouts. Rick's job is to get players that fit what O'brien (or Kubiak) is trying to do. Wade takes credit for Watt. Gibbs takes credit for DBrown. Will Fuller, Tom Savage, Aj Bouye have history with O'b or friends of O'b.
To me, when O'b says, "Rick controls the draft..." or "McNair's the boss, if he says we're going to draft a QB, that's what we're going to do..." just tells me he hasn't learned how to deal with the media yet. One of the things a HC has to be able to do.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You keep failing to cite any proof of this desire. Not even an anonymous insider.
No... that's only if the report is correct & if Jimmy Garoppolo works out. Which I seriously doubt.
I have no doubt that if O'b had pounded the table, we'd have drafted him with 2-1. But Bill O'brien said & it's been reported several times, there were six QBs in that draft that were about even. Why draft one at 2-1 if there were three (or four) of those six still available?
a little OT, but it was also reported that Bill O'brien said the city of Houston should be "damn proud" to have Hoyer & Mallett QB for the Houston Texans.
Damn proud.
I'm going to side with Rick on this one. If he told O'brien, "No you can't have Garoppolo." We're better off for it.
No to Jim for me. rather have rookie contract qb, so after this yr we can keep everyone for next 2 - 3 yrs while adding more pieces.
then after that 2 - 3 yrs our old high contract players will be start to going out for cap space. we got some old players i am sure we will get rid of with high paying contract or expire.
then after that 2 - 3 yrs our old high contract players will be start to going out for cap space. we got some old players i am sure we will get rid of with high paying contract or expire.
Doesn't this sound like the exact kind of coachspeak thing you'd expect to hear from a guy coming out of the draft with a ho-hum 4th rounder?
The only six QB's that are about even in any draft are the six that are going to be selling insurance in a few years you don't want.
Where would you rank Garoppolo right now if he were coming out in this draft?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I think people often read far too much into mundane comments.
Glazer reported it with his story about BOB wanting out. I believe that Glazer, you don't it's really simple
BOB said in his press conference that Rick was in charge of the draft/FA, I believe BOB apparently you don't.
I believe Ricky went out and got Os per McNair's orders (Which I agreed with at the time) you don't.
This is really simple, we just disagree on how we THINK the Texans org is being run.
#1 by a good margin.
With out a QB you've got nothing in today's NFL.
Cut Watt if you have to too get a franchise QB.
If Rick told O'Brien no then he should be fired. I think he did and you don't.
You sure are putting a lot of faith in Ricky's ability to find a QB, since he hasn't been able to draft a QB in a decade.
Except he was saying it before the draft. There were even rumors about taking Tom Savage with 2-1... I mean if we're going to be giving credit to rumors.
Just to be clear, I'm only adding these mundane comment reported rumors because that is the main source of steelbtexans' argument. There's a rumor that O'b wanted to take Garropolo at 2-1 but Rick said no. There were also rumors that we were going to take Savage at 2-1. O'b specifically said, before the draft, there were 6 guys that he thought were about even (basically saying there isn't a special guy in this draft).
I'm like you & Mollywhopper. None of it means anything. We've got to go by what they did. I believe if O'b thought JimmyG was special, we'd have taken him at 2-1.
If anything, I think the conversation went like...
O'b: I know we already talked about this, just like we talk about everything... but tomorrow we have the first pick & I think we should take Garoppolo.
Rick: If that's what you want to do Bill. I'm just the yes man. Your wish is my command. But I'd be remissed not to at least go over our past conversations. You said none of these guys were "special" there are three that you'd really like to have, another two that you could work with. Two of those guys you really wanted are still on the board & I believe I can get one of them with 3-1. There's only one guard in this entire draft that you wanted. He's there, we can get him. But if you insist we take one of two guys you said you'd love to have... I'm down.
O'b: Thank you Rick. I remember that now. I guess I was just letting my emotions get the best of me. You're right. Let's get that versatile OL out of UCLA.
Rick: You sure? There's another OL we could probably trade up to get if we take the QB now.
O'b: No, no... my head's clear now. We'll go with our original plan.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
We have a link feature for a reason.
Do you really not get the idea of a GM being "in charge" and a HC saying "this is the best guy" in his area of expertise so the GM says "OK?" That just incomprehensible? Of course Smith is in charge of the draft. No reason to believe he'd overrule OB on a QB draft pick.
That's fair, about him saying it before hand.
Still just sounds like ambiguous coachspeak for having had no idea what he wanted to do at that time and was just trying to create a soft landing spot for wherever he was going to inevitably land. Or he truly just couldn't separate some pretty separatable QB's in that draft. And, ouch.
Or... he just didn't see what he was looking for. I think Tom Savage, Zakk Mettenberger were the closest, but not enough to invest a first or second round pick. I think they liked Bortles, but not at the expense of Clowney. They may have liked Garoppolo, but not as a year one starter.
PapaL
Loose Screw
More than a few of us wanted Teddy Texan errr Bridgewater at 2-1 that year. Sadly the Vikings did what they needed to do to get a franchise QB. Even sadder for them they may have to do it again in the near future.
Who's speculating now?
Apparently they didn't like any rookie as a day one starter.
You used the word GOOD and Os in the same sentence. LOL This team won in spite of him. He was historically bad and I cant believe you as a season ticketholder want to see more of the Wizard of OS. I too want to see the best QB possible drafted.
This just in, if a HC doesn't give you an oininion on his QB said HC would rather make a trip to the dentist than have Os as his QB again next yr.
As to the rest of the post I believe BOB knows exactly what he was doing. Making Bob/Cal/Ricky McNair uncomfortable because he knows this team has gone as far as it can with Os and he wants out before Ricky ruins BOB's career. Why do you think he told us how the Texans hierarchy works. He's not willing to play McNair's game anymore. Why? Because he wants out.
Unfortunately this will be BOB's last yr here. He's had enough. The only way this changes is if Romo/Cutler/Savage leads the team to a SB (Doubtful) and even then I think McNair will have to pay up and give BOB the power he wants or BOB will be gone.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I think that if OB can get a younger QB, such as Savage or a rookie, playing decent ball and showing a path to improvement and success, he's a lock to return, or he should be. I'm if he opinion that the QB has been the major issue, after rewatching games and focusing on the offensive scheme. If he can't find a QB to atleast run his scheme somewhat effectively, he should be gone.
And no, TK, Osweiler did not look good at times. He was really, really bad. I wish that there was a stat for yards left on field, Osweiler would crush that statistic.
And no, TK, Osweiler did not look good at times. He was really, really bad. I wish that there was a stat for yards left on field, Osweiler would crush that statistic.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Actually, he did look good at times. He looked good in the Oakland playoff game. Went 12/18 for 150 yards, 1 TD and a sweet deep ball to Nuk in the 1st half. Are you saying that wasn't "looking good"? The comeback win against Indy. Played pretty good.
No one is arguing that the season taken in whole wasn't a failure for him. But it's a disingenuous argument to say at no time in the entire season he did not play well.
Wait a minute. I can't let that go. O'Brien said that BEFORE the draft.
"I think the thing is, to me, there's not a lot of separation," O'Brien said when asked if any player was worth of the No. 1 overall pick. "And there are more quarterbacks than just three. Obviously the three guys that everybody talks about -- Blake (Bortles), Teddy (Bridgewater) and Johnny (Manziel). They're good players. They've had great college careers.
"But there are other guys out there. You've got (AJ) McCarron. You've got (Zach) Mettenberger. You've got Logan Thomas. You've got (Tom) Savage. You've got (Jimmy) Garoppolo. I mean, I can go right down the list. To me, you've got 10 to 12 guys you've got to do a great job of evaluating and make the best pick possible wherever you pick these guys.
"But there are other guys out there. You've got (AJ) McCarron. You've got (Zach) Mettenberger. You've got Logan Thomas. You've got (Tom) Savage. You've got (Jimmy) Garoppolo. I mean, I can go right down the list. To me, you've got 10 to 12 guys you've got to do a great job of evaluating and make the best pick possible wherever you pick these guys.
This was from an interview done by the NFL network with O'Brien on March 24, 2014, a full month before the draft. So this ain't just "coach speak" covering up for failing to use a high pick on one of the prospects available in that draft.
Oh and please note that Garoppolo was the LAST name that rolled off his tongue when listing who he (O'Brien) thought were top college QB prospects. And I've tried googling to find where O'Brien said - not some talking head doing baseless speculation - that HE wanted Garoppolo. I'm beginning to doubt there's any truth in that whole storyline.
Ok, tk and I covered that about 10 or so posts ago..
We had this discussion when that rumor came out. It wasn't two days later that both O'Brien and McNair said it was all bullsh!t. And actually Glazer reported that O'Brien might be FIRED, not that he wanted out of his contract. And was only IF the Texans were one-and-done in the playoffs.
Well, excuse me. It takes time to research what I post and provide links.
Also, I, too, am a bit worried that O'Brien couldn't differentiate between who was most desirable - or at least who best fit his offensive plans - among all those prospects he listed.
Now if he just didn't want to say, that's understandable. But that's not how he phrase it.
No worries, yo.
None at all, Milady.
I don't even..
O'Brien sure is acting like a man who doesn't want to be here under the current conditions.
Wouldn't you agree?
He was avg against Oakland.
Against the Colts he had a great 5 mins. For the rest of the game he stunk.
Even if Os gets better it still wont make him anymore than bad, instead of historically bad.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I can't say there was a single game where I came away thinking Osweiler looked good. Maybe a play or throw here and there, sure, but not a full game.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
OBrien probably realizes that he is a head coach in name only. McNair already has a plan in motion to replace him with RAC. All that is left is to identify a potential offensive co-ordinator for RAC. (Wes Welker?)
Nothing short of Oswieler becoming a good quarterback / deep playoff run next year will save OBriens job. What's the chances of that happening?
Too bad. I liked the OBrien hire at the time.
He took the long way around to do it, but the godfather will get what he wants.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Crenne
Crennell will be 70 in June.OBrien probably realizes that he is a head coach in name only. McNair already has a plan in motion to replace him with RAC. All that is left is to identify a potential offensive co-ordinator for RAC. (Wes Welker?)
Nothing short of Oswieler becoming a good quarterback / deep playoff run next year will save OBriens job. What's the chances of that happening?
Too bad. I liked the OBrien hire at the time.
He took the long way around to do it, but the godfather will get what he wants.
He needed a good OC that can be able to tell the difference between Carr, Savage, Bortles, McCarron, etc. I think OB's downfall is not being able to tell the difference between a good quarterback to a decent one to a horrible one.OBrien probably realizes that he is a head coach in name only. McNair already has a plan in motion to replace him with RAC. All that is left is to identify a potential offensive co-ordinator for RAC. (Wes Welker?)
Nothing short of Oswieler becoming a good quarterback / deep playoff run next year will save OBriens job. What's the chances of that happening?
Too bad. I liked the OBrien hire at the time.
He took the long way around to do it, but the godfather will get what he wants.
This is the same man that told the city of Houston that we should be proud of guys like Fitz and Hoyer. He really needed an OC that was able to evaluate qb's and can find plays that help the players like all the other good coordinators do.