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What's your plan for QB next season?

infantrycak said:
Not OB should not get the same leeway. He has no track record of success with QBs at this point.

And by my recollection most people thought we paid to much for Schaub at the time

I'd like to see them make a run. Just think Kubiak did it is a poor argument.
Click to expand...

But our current situation is all that we need to legitimize a run at a QB, as you put it.

I'm curious as to your stance on the acquisition of a QB this offseason. I assume you've written BO off. Would you be more in favor of drafting one, if so what round, or making a run at someone like Jimmy G? Or do you agree with some who think we should just ride next season out with the same guys we've already got?
 
infantrycak said:
Not OB should not get the same leeway. He has no track record of success with QBs at this point.

And by my recollection most people thought we paid to much for Schaub at the time

I'd like to see them make a run. Just think Kubiak did it is a poor argument.
Click to expand...

I'm going yo start a thread on this, teams that go all in on the Patriots way are in the SB. (Looks like trading up for Julio was a brilliant move as was signing Mack in FA.) It takes a while to get there but it works. If your not going to let BOB get his QB then you might as well go ahead and fire him. (Maybe this is why he wanted out.) BOB was hire as a QB guru/offense oriented HC. If you're McNair you either trust him or you dont. Both Kubiak/BOB were/are 1st time HC's looking for a QB to build an offense around.

If you dont let BOB pick his QB then who picks the QB? Bob/Ricky McNair? Se how well that has worked out with signing Os?
 
steelbtexan said:
The two 2's for Schaub is essentially the equivalent of a 1st rd pick. You had no problem giving up a 1 for Schaub because Kubiak knew Schaub was his QB.

You do have a problem giving up say a 2 and a 4 this yr and a 2 next yr for Jimmy G because you dont think BOB knows Jimmy G is his guy? BOB should get the same leeway as Kubiak got in getting the QB he wanted. But he wont get that because Bob/Ricky McNair have saddled this franchise with the colossal failure that is Os.
Click to expand...
Wait, you've said yourself - many times - that Osweiler will be the starter per McNair's orders because of the financial investment he's already made.

Now you want me to give up a 2nd (either our new starting RT or Bouye replacement CB) and a 4th (depth or S/T help) this year and ANOTHER 2nd next year (could be used to trade up for a QB since the 2018 QB class is supposed to be better) for a guy that's going to be holding a clipboard for most of the upcoming season?

No, I can't sign on for that.

 
steelbtexan said:
The two 2's for Schaub is essentially the equivalent of a 1st rd pick. You had no problem giving up a 1 for Schaub because Kubiak knew Schaub was his QB.

You do have a problem giving up say a 2 and a 4 this yr and a 2 next yr for Jimmy G because you dont think BOB knows Jimmy G is his guy? BOB should get the same leeway as Kubiak got in getting the QB he wanted. But he wont get that because Bob/Ricky McNair have saddled this franchise with the colossal failure that is Os.
Click to expand...
Wait, you've said yourself - many times - that Osweiler will be the starter per McNair's orders because of the financial investment he's already made.

Now you want me to give up a 2nd (either our new starting RT or Bouye replacement CB) and a 4th (depth or S/T help) this year and ANOTHER 2nd next year (could be used to trade up for a QB since the 2018 QB class is supposed to be better) for a guy that's going to be holding a clipboard for most of next year?

No, I can't sign on for that. We wait until next year to make a move for Garoppolo; if he's still available AND Osweiler flops. Next year Belichick HAS to trade him, re-sign him, or let him walk. That way Belichick is painted into a corner. I like it better when WE have the leverage.
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm going yo start a thread on this, teams that go all in on the Patriots way are in the SB. (Looks like trading up for Julio was a brilliant move as was signing Mack in FA.) It takes a while to get there but it works. If your not going to let BOB get his QB then you might as well go ahead and fire him. (Maybe this is why he wanted out.) BOB was hire as a QB guru/offense oriented HC. If you're McNair you either trust him or you dont. Both Kubiak/BOB were/are 1st time HC's looking for a QB to build an offense around.

If you dont let BOB pick his QB then who picks the QB? Bob/Ricky McNair? Se how well that has worked out with signing Os?
Click to expand...
O'Brien is on record as being good with the Osweiler signing.

"We didn't just study the seven games," O'Brien told NFL Network's Steve Wyche on Sunday. "We studied all of the snaps he had. He is tough. He is an accurate passer. I like his leadership. Of all the people who have coached him, everybody spoke highly of him."

Said O'Brien: "We are really happy with our decision to sign him."​
LINK
​
You really need to get off that "McNair forced O'Brien to start Osweiler" kick. O'Brien, in his own words, said he was good with it.
...Unless you believe O'Brien to be a liar.
 
Ok ok I will play alone.

Big Ben is contemplating retirement. He's still a top notch QB. So how about contacting the Steelers to see if we could change his mind. We give them our 1st, Savage, Joseph ( since they need help in the secondary) and maybe a 4th rounder as well.

Make it happen Rick Smith.

Also see if they would take Brock as well.

Haha
 
ObsiWan said:
Wait, you've said yourself - many times - that Osweiler will be the starter per McNair's orders because of the financial investment he's already made.

Now you want me to give up a 2nd (either our new starting RT or Bouye replacement CB) and a 4th (depth or S/T help) this year and ANOTHER 2nd next year (could be used to trade up for a QB since the 2018 QB class is supposed to be better) for a guy that's going to be holding a clipboard for most of the upcoming season?

No, I can't sign on for that.
Click to expand...

If Ricky traded for Jimmy G he would be the starter and Os would be the backup. Which is the reason a trade for Jimmy G will never happen.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Ok ok I will play alone.

Big Ben is contemplating retirement. He's still a top notch QB. So how about contacting the Steelers to see if we could change his mind. We give them our 1st, Savage, Joseph ( since they need help in the secondary) and maybe a 4th rounder as well.

Make it happen Rick Smith.

Also see if they would take Brock as well.

Haha
Click to expand...

Haha...

No
 
ObsiWan said:
O'Brien is on record as being good with the Osweiler signing.

"We didn't just study the seven games," O'Brien told NFL Network's Steve Wyche on Sunday. "We studied all of the snaps he had. He is tough. He is an accurate passer. I like his leadership. Of all the people who have coached him, everybody spoke highly of him."

Said O'Brien: "We are really happy with our decision to sign him."​
LINK
​
You really need to get off that "McNair forced O'Brien to start Osweiler" kick. O'Brien, in his own words, said he was good with it.
...Unless you believe O'Brien to be a liar.
Click to expand...

I believe BOB was a good company man towing the line.

When BOB benched Os is when all of these rumors of BOB being unhappy started. Coencidence?

Or BOB was flat out lying. I heard Ricky on the NFL channel with Kirwin selling the Os was a rookie last yr and he will improve. I guess it's kinda hard to watch the games with your nose up Bob/Cal's butt. So I will give Ricky a break.
 
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TexansSeminole said:
But our current situation is all that we need to legitimize a run at a QB, as you put it.

I'm curious as to your stance on the acquisition of a QB this offseason. I assume you've written BO off. Would you be more in favor of drafting one, if so what round, or making a run at someone like Jimmy G? Or do you agree with some who think we should just ride next season out with the same guys we've already got?
Click to expand...

Don't see any vets worth pursuing.

Make a run at Jimmy G. If not, draft a QB in the top 3 rds.
 
ObsiWan said:
So some of you want to see a fourth QB in four years try to learn O'Brien's system.

I know this won't be popular
....but maaaaybe it's not the QBs
Click to expand...

Or maybe it is.

Fitz did a good job and I believe BOB wanted Mallett to be his QB the next ye. BOB saw Mallett as a talent upgrade. Hoyer was insurance, it didn't work out not due to BOB's offense but because Mallett flaked out and Hoyer wasn't good enough to be a starting QB. You know my thoughts on Os.

So this all has very little to do with BOB's offense. I'm on board for bringing on Cutler for a couple of yrs. He's smart (Vandy) and has shown he can pick up a new offense quickly. I also want Ricky to draft a QB in the 1st 3 rds.

Do I think this will happen, no. You know my thoughts on why Os will be the starting QB regardless of what happens in TC.
 
ObsiWan said:
So some of you want to see a fourth QB in four years try to learn O'Brien's system.

I know this won't be popular
....but maaaaybe it's not the QBs
Click to expand...


That's what it looks like bud. We have to keep on trying until we finally get it right. Now it might take 10 more years or so.
 
Texansballer74 said:
That's what it looks like bud. We have to keep on trying until we finally get it right. Now it might take 10 more years or so.
Click to expand...

It takes time and a lotta luck. And sometimes the worst QB can turn it around. A couple HOF'ers and probably more had terrible first year(s)


And a few required coaching changes
 
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-index-the-2017-trade-marketfree-agency-guide

I'm just going drop this bag of snacks right here for you good people to pick through....,....

Trade Candidates:

1. Jimmy Garoppolo
2. Tony Romo
3. Tyrod Taylor
4. AJ McCarron

Candidates for release:

1. Jay Cutler
2. Colin Kaepernick
3. Robert Griffin III
4. Nick Foles

Free Agents:

1. Kirk Cousins
2. Mike Glennon
3. Brian Hoyer
4. Geno Smith
5. Ryan Mallett
6. Ryan Fitzpatrick
7. Matt Barkley
8. Case Keenum
9. Matt McGloin
10. Mark Sanchez
11. EJ Manuel
12. Blaine Gabbert
13. Matt Cassel
14. Landry Jones
15. Shaun Hill
16. Ryan Nassib


Have at it my Texans buddies!!!!!!
 
JB said:
It takes time and a lotta luck. And sometimes the worst QB can turn it around. A couple HOF'ers and probably more had terrible first year(s)


And a few required coaching changes
Click to expand...


Agreed

Steve Young comes to mind. He wasn't all that good in Tampa.

Peyton Manning first year was horrible as well.
 
Some of you pointed out that it took more than one year for some pretty successful QBs to find their stride.
Okay, point taken.

Soooo why haven't we given any of these guys more than one year?

orrrrr, and at the risk of thinking they may have had an actual "plan", maybe that's why O'Brien/Smith/McNair gave Osweiler a deal that financially built in a two-year 'trial period'.



....naaah that can't be right.
:)
 
ObsiWan said:
Some of you pointed out that it took more than one year for some pretty successful QBs to find their stride.
Okay, point taken.

Soooo why haven't we given any of these guys more than one year?

orrrrr, and at the risk of thinking they may have had an actual "plan", maybe that's why O'Brien/Smith/McNair gave Osweiler a deal that financially built in a two-year 'trial period'.



....naaah that can't be right.
:)
Click to expand...
Patience is a rare quality in a fan forum. We see pretty much eye to eye on this subject.
 
ObsiWan said:
Some of you pointed out that it took more than one year for some pretty successful QBs to find their stride.
Okay, point taken.

Soooo why haven't we given any of these guys more than one year?

orrrrr, and at the risk of thinking they may have had an actual "plan", maybe that's why O'Brien/Smith/McNair gave Osweiler a deal that financially built in a two-year 'trial period'.



....naaah that can't be right.
:)
Click to expand...
I think I have more patience than many on this forum. But, while only playing high school QB, many many many years ago, Oz's throwing mechanics goes against everything I've ever looked for in a QB.

If this showed up in the Denver film that the organization used to evaluate Oz, I never would have signed him in the first place. I don't think his mechanics can be changed or improved upon at this point in his career. At best he might improve his stats, as an unorthodox passer.

So, as an exception, I have little patience with Oz. Just like everyone, I'm frustrated with the QB situation. This off season can't move along fast enough in anticipation of how this will shake out.
 
ObsiWan said:
Some of you pointed out that it took more than one year for some pretty successful QBs to find their stride.
Okay, point taken.

Soooo why haven't we given any of these guys more than one year?

orrrrr, and at the risk of thinking they may have had an actual "plan", maybe that's why O'Brien/Smith/McNair gave Osweiler a deal that financially built in a two-year 'trial period'.



....naaah that can't be right.
:)
Click to expand...

I think O'Brien planned on bringing Hoyer in the whole time. That's why Fitz wasn't given more than a year, that's why we didn't think about drafting a QB before the 4th round in 2014. I don't have any links, but I remember several radio shows on 610 where McClain talked about it. O'b had a crazy, unexplainable crush on Brian Hoyer.

Then Hoyer was just so bad that he had to be let go. I think Fitz would have had a good year, the Texans would have had a much better year if he were here for a second year.

I'd really like to see Osweiler in year two. Not because I like Osweiler, I'm just curious to see a QB in year two of O'Briens "system." Savage would still be effectively in year one.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Nobody knows if the price for Garoppolo is a 1st & a 4th. That's nothing but wild ass speculation.

Could be more, could be less. Could just be more creative.
Click to expand...


I dunno what the price will be .... But I'd gladly give that first and fourth , might even sweeten the pot if it was required.

I really believe this team as currently constructed is a quarterback away from a Lombardi Trophy , assuming they can keep the defense intact this offseason.

I also believe that the window is kinda short because it will be damn difficult to keep all the key players beyond the next two seasons .... You need a guy who can win NOW , not three years from now.
 
76Texan said:
Of course, that would be the safe route.

I'm just thinking it's more enticing at the table with his agent.
Both sides have to be willing to make some sort of a deal.
Risk/reward in play.
Got to bang the table to see if something moves.
Click to expand...


I wont argue against extending his deal ... it makes sense long term , assuming he plays well.
 
thunderkyss said:
I think O'Brien planned on bringing Hoyer in the whole time. That's why Fitz wasn't given more than a year, that's why we didn't think about drafting a QB before the 4th round in 2014. I don't have any links, but I remember several radio shows on 610 where McClain talked about it. O'b had a crazy, unexplainable crush on Brian Hoyer.

Then Hoyer was just so bad that he had to be let go. I think Fitz would have had a good year, the Texans would have had a much better year if he were here for a second year.

I'd really like to see Osweiler in year two. Not because I like Osweiler, I'm just curious to see a QB in year two of O'Briens "system." Savage would still be effectively in year one.
Click to expand...

I don't believe Os will be much if any better in year two than he was in year one .... His problem isn't making reads or decision making , its his total lack of accuracy and the ability to put the ball where it needs to be .... its always 3 yards thisaway or thataway .... I don't believe this is something you can fix or dramatically improve.
 
ObsiWan said:
Some of you pointed out that it took more than one year for some pretty successful QBs to find their stride.
Okay, point taken.

Soooo why haven't we given any of these guys more than one year?

orrrrr, and at the risk of thinking they may have had an actual "plan", maybe that's why O'Brien/Smith/McNair gave Osweiler a deal that financially built in a two-year 'trial period'.



....naaah that can't be right.
:)
Click to expand...

When you say "we" you're actually talking about the team, right?

Because what "we" talk about here has little effect on what "they" do. Fans just want to see results.

As far as the hypothetical two year plan with Os; Even if that's the case, they couldn't have envisioned him being this bad in year one.

If they did, then they might as well had gotten an actual rookie instead of an alternative rookie.
 
Number19 said:
I think I have more patience than many on this forum. But, while only playing high school QB, many many many years ago, Oz's throwing mechanics goes against everything I've ever looked for in a QB.

If this showed up in the Denver film that the organization used to evaluate Oz, I never would have signed him in the first place. I don't think his mechanics can be changed or improved upon at this point in his career. At best he might improve his stats, as an unorthodox passer.

So, as an exception, I have little patience with Oz. Just like everyone, I'm frustrated with the QB situation. This off season can't move along fast enough in anticipation of how this will shake out.
Click to expand...

It was there, if you looked for it. Considering the Texans didn't even interview the guy, I can't imagine they spent much time watching film of him. Love the pic below of Manning with the ball held high (correct), and Os holding it low (incorrect).

brock-osweiler.jpg
Broncos-30-7.jpg

usatsi_7671005.jpg
 
thunderkyss said:
I think O'Brien planned on bringing Hoyer in the whole time. That's why Fitz wasn't given more than a year, that's why we didn't think about drafting a QB before the 4th round in 2014. I don't have any links, but I remember several radio shows on 610 where McClain talked about it. O'b had a crazy, unexplainable crush on Brian Hoyer.

Then Hoyer was just so bad that he had to be let go. I think Fitz would have had a good year, the Texans would have had a much better year if he were here for a second year.

I'd really like to see Osweiler in year two. Not because I like Osweiler, I'm just curious to see a QB in year two of O'Briens "system." Savage would still be effectively in year one.
Click to expand...


I agree with all that except wanting to see Os again.

OB's crush on Hoyer derailed their ability to find a qb. When OB was on hard knocks giving the stirring speech about the "damn fine qb's" they had....he was talking about Hoyer.

I think the best thing to do would have been to fire OB. Make Shannahan an offer he couldn't refuse. Keep Vrabel as DC. And pick up a rookie QB in the draft.

So two things...I think Kyle could have gotten more out of Brock and the offense and you'd have a rookie ready to step in.

I remember Brees was terrible for his first few years. They drafted Rivers and if not for that shoulder injury they'd have had a tough decision on their hands.

I'm not saying OS is the next Brees. But I have not been impressed with what OB has brought to the table for the offense.

It alas, he's still the head coach here. So with him being the coach I don't think the Os thing has any shot at working out. Whatever the disconnect is its ugly.

So with everything we have I agree that garropolo should be the first option and then id look at the cap and trade scenarios to see if they can bring in a vet like Rivers...when that fails I'd look to draft a rookie in the first two rounds.
 
Corrosion said:
I don't believe Os will be much if any better in year two than he was in year one .... His problem isn't making reads or decision making , its his total lack of accuracy and the ability to put the ball where it needs to be .... its always 3 yards thisaway or thataway .... I don't believe this is something you can fix or dramatically improve.
Click to expand...
I think Os is pretty accurate when his footwork is good, but I think that's a learned behavior, so when he feels pressure (real or imagined) he reverts back to poor footwork and *poof* there goes his accuracy. Maybe with experience it can be improved on? I dunno.
There is no fixing that gawd-awful wind up he has.
 
Dutchrudder said:
It was there, if you looked for it. Considering the Texans didn't even interview the guy, I can't imagine they spent much time watching film of him. Love the pic below of Manning with the ball held high (correct), and Os holding it low (incorrect).

brock-osweiler.jpg
Broncos-30-7.jpg

usatsi_7671005.jpg
Click to expand...
This is silly. The two pics you mention are at different times in the throwing motion. Manning is looking for a place to throw (not even gripping the ball like he's about to start the throwing motion) and Os is already starting his wind up.
Your quote about OB not interviewing Os (NFL rules wouldn't let him before the start of FA) equating to not watching much film on Os is even sillier. OB has gone on record that he watched every single play Os had in the NFL and college. You're just flat out making stuff up.
 
Dutchrudder said:
It was there, if you looked for it. Considering the Texans didn't even interview the guy, I can't imagine they spent much time watching film of him.
Click to expand...
I posted a quote earlier from "O'Brien himself where he is on record as saying they watched every play Osweiler ever made, not just the seven games he started down that stretch for Denver's SB run.
"We didn't just study the seven games," O'Brien told NFL Network's Steve Wyche on Sunday. "We studied all of the snaps he had. He is tough. He is an accurate passer. I like his leadership. Of all the people who have coached him, everybody spoke highly of him."

Said O'Brien: "We are really happy with our decision to sign him."

The coach then went on to confirm that last year's starter, Brian Hoyer, still has a place as "our backup," but emphasized: "The best move in that position was to go get Brock." link​

So they looked. At least O'Brien said they did.
 
Number19 said:
I think I have more patience than many on this forum. But, while only playing high school QB, many many many years ago, Oz's throwing mechanics goes against everything I've ever looked for in a QB.

If this showed up in the Denver film that the organization used to evaluate Oz, I never would have signed him in the first place. I don't think his mechanics can be changed or improved upon at this point in his career. At best he might improve his stats, as an unorthodox passer.

So, as an exception, I have little patience with Oz. Just like everyone, I'm frustrated with the QB situation. This off season can't move along fast enough in anticipation of how this will shake out.
Click to expand...


I think I am somewhat patient as well, but with OS its pretty clear that he is extremely limited. His upside isn't a top 10 starter, its a bottom third game manager. It would be one thing if he flashed something high level or elite at times, but he really didn't. I would add once teams figured out to just go into a Cover 2 deep zone, his play went downhill very fast. Look at his gamelog, he wasn't up and down he's consistently down. His best game was at GB, when the snow prevented a pass rush, even then he posted just a 97 rating. He didn't have one game where he was higher than 100. Look around the league, there probably weren't any other guys who started 10 games or more that didn't crack 100 once. Yet he had a WHOPPING 6 games at 60 or below!!!! That is historically bad.



He just has too many issues, many of which are very difficult to greatly improve. His mechanics, accuracy and footwork possibly can be improved, maybe?, however the decision making and anticipation will be much harder. He is terrible under pressure, stares down receivers, and his pocket movement is terrible. The part between the ears is what makes this so improbable. I know the offensive line is maligned in these parts, but many times he had more than enough time to find someone, yet he came up short repeatedly. His slow delivery, stare downs, and lack of anticipation make it extremely difficult for him to beat a zone. In a zone you have to throw guys open anticipate where the hole is going to be, if you wait till the guy is open the D will converge. It just seems like were forcing the issue because we payed him, when IMHO its much easier to move on.
 
Dutchrudder said:
It was there, if you looked for it. Considering the Texans didn't even interview the guy, I can't imagine they spent much time watching film of him. Love the pic below of Manning with the ball held high (correct), and Os holding it low (incorrect).

brock-osweiler.jpg
Broncos-30-7.jpg

usatsi_7671005.jpg
Click to expand...
Great pics.
 
ObsiWan said:
I posted a quote earlier from "O'Brien himself where he is on record as saying they watched every play Osweiler ever made, not just the seven games he started down that stretch for Denver's SB run.
"We didn't just study the seven games," O'Brien told NFL Network's Steve Wyche on Sunday. "We studied all of the snaps he had. He is tough. He is an accurate passer. I like his leadership. Of all the people who have coached him, everybody spoke highly of him."

Said O'Brien: "We are really happy with our decision to sign him."

The coach then went on to confirm that last year's starter, Brian Hoyer, still has a place as "our backup," but emphasized: "The best move in that position was to go get Brock." link​

So they looked. At least O'Brien said they did.
Click to expand...
We have a bat house on Kirby?
:ahhaha:
 
DocBar said:
I think Os is pretty accurate when his footwork is good, but I think that's a learned behavior, so when he feels pressure (real or imagined) he reverts back to poor footwork and *poof* there goes his accuracy. Maybe with experience it can be improved on? I dunno.
There is no fixing that gawd-awful wind up he has.
Click to expand...

I don't think he's accurate even when his footwork is good .... Maybe we are watching two different QB's ??

I don't think its something you can fix this late in his development process .... he's just like a pitcher who's all over the place.


Yeah , that windup .... ugh. Probably costs him a quarter of a second every time he throws and windows of opportunity close faster than you can blink.
 
DocBar said:
Patience is a rare quality in a fan forum. We see pretty much eye to eye on this subject.
Click to expand...

15 yrs and 10 yrs of Ricky McNair and $100,000 is enough patience.

How much more patience needs to be shown before the fanbase gets the idea that all they are is suckers in a $$$$ rigged league?
 
WolverineFan said:
Not a fan. Reminds me of Manziel. He's at his best when he's improvising but NFL coaches want guys who can stay on script. If you contain him in the pocket his efficiency goes way down.
Click to expand...
I see the manziel comparison because he is white, not real tall and has uncanny ability to escape pressure and make plays. The rest I totally disagree with. Off has him as the best QB overall last year. He has one of the highest completion % in the nation on his down field passing. When I watched him, his accuracy impressed the hell out of me. I haven't watched all his games yet but the ones I've watched I've been very impressed.

Reminds me a lot of a young Drew Brees.
 
DocBar said:
This is silly. The two pics you mention are at different times in the throwing motion. Manning is looking for a place to throw (not even gripping the ball like he's about to start the throwing motion) and Os is already starting his wind up.
Your quote about OB not interviewing Os (NFL rules wouldn't let him before the start of FA) equating to not watching much film on Os is even sillier. OB has gone on record that he watched every single play Os had in the NFL and college. You're just flat out making stuff up.
Click to expand...

Go watch some Texans tape then. He holds the ball low, which makes his release slightly slower. It may only amount to a .1 second difference in throwing, but that can make a difference when the entire throwing motion takes less than a second. The guy is going into his 6th year in the NFL, and hasn't picked up on the fact that QBs should hold the ball high to make a faster release. Little things add up in the NFL. Bright side is that is coachable.

Obviously the Texans did watch some tape, the point being tongue-in-cheek, that our team didn't do their job very well and must have ignored a lot of it. Brock is exactly the same person he was in Denver. He hasn't improved in any aspect of his game, his throwing motion is exactly the same. He was 27th in Completion % in 2016 with a 59%, and lead the 28th ranked offense in the league.

His mechanics are wonky though. He has a huge windmill type of windup that isn't very good for balance or speed, and when he speeds it up, he throws the ball in the dirt. His accuracy is all over the place and only got worse as the season progressed. Unless there is some injury that has gone undisclosed through the season, I don't see how he can improve much next year. In 2015 at Denver, he was the 20th best QB by QBR, and in 2016 with the Texans he was 22nd in QBR. Rookie 1st round pick Trevor Siemien finished with the 21st QBR. Not really surprising, but the problem is we committed 37 million for this guy for 2 years, and Denver committed about half that for 4 years of Trevor. We're stuck with him for another year, but he's going to need to make a big leap to even become an average QB.
 
Corrosion said:
I don't think he's accurate even when his footwork is good .... Maybe we are watching two different QB's ??

I don't think its something you can fix this late in his development process .... he's just like a pitcher who's all over the place.


Yeah , that windup .... ugh. Probably costs him a quarter of a second every time he throws and windows of opportunity close faster than you can blink.
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I think we might be seeing what we want to see to an extent. I don't mean that in an ugly way at all. It's just human nature.

I'm trying to figure where the WR's fall in with the accuracy issues. They didn't do a good job of getting separation in 2016. I guess I expect that from DHop. That's one of the main reasons he's made so many circus catches in previous years ( he made a lot of circus tips into INT's in 2017 that he's caught in years past) and with B. Miller and Fuller V being rookies, they're still learning to run proper routes and create separation. That leads me to the resurgence of the TE in 2016. Two good vets and a rookie caught quite a few passes this year. It was nice to see.
 
ObsiWan said:
I don't see how they're equivalent situations at all.

(a) The Vikes were seriously desperate. They thought they had a playoff-ready team with Teddy B. then he goes down right before the start of the season. The draft was way behind them and most free agency moves had been already made. They wanted the best, most experienced replacement they could get and were willing to submit to highway robbery (them being the victims) to get him.
(b) Bradford had several seasons of starting experience under his belt. To date, Garoppolo has all of two starts. Add to that he got hurt didn't even finish the second one (*cough-Savage-cough*). Bradford's years of experience (mixed results, I know) makes Bradford worth more than Garoppolo.

We gave two 2's for Schaub because Kubiak knew he had his starter. I wouldn't give a 1 and a 4 for a guy who, at best, will be part of a QB competition.

I don't see the situations being the same at all.
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You lost yourself completely when you blew off Garrapolo and then tried to use Schaub as an okay example. Schaub had barely more experience as a starter than Jimmy did, and didn't look as good as Jimmy has either. But that was okay then too? Coming right after you tried justifying the Bradford trade? Lol! Come on man. Vikings were morons for that, and they didn't get any better which is what several of us stated then too. The Vikings dealt with what teams deal with every season when their QB goes down for the season. THey don't all run out in total desperation mode and give up a 1st and a 4th for some guy that has a pretty poor history as a starter. Pretty much no logic in that at all.
 
Mollywhopper said:
And I didn't argue with you on whether they'll trade him or not, I was just furthering my point that there are so many moving parts in a supposed trade, and with nothing sourced as of yet, no one in fact really knows what his trade price tag is.

Furthering that I never said they could or couldn't get any particular value for him. I didn't argue that one way or another once. I said what they could demand could be one thing or another that we don't know yet, because like I've been saying all along ... no one knows anything yet.
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The price tag would be the highest that they could get. They'd likely go out and make him available to other teams and see what is offered. Either that or they'd have their guys reach out to certain GM's that they'd likely want him to be traded to and see what type of value they can get. A 1st and a 4th at a minimum is a pretty easy marker to go by based on that last year's trade with Bradford, and they know it. Other teams know it. You know it. His value will be greater than what Bradford's would have been in any year if he becomes available. You keep making this so complex when it really isn't. Its actually very simple.
 
leebigeztx said:
Pretty much. If Cutler is on the roster making 15m and Os is on the roster too, so what! Cutler is such a huge upgrade to the qb and they could cut Oz after the season and they can still draft a qb in the 2nd or 3rd rd. Isn't that what New England did? As stated earlier, even if it cost bouye,jackson, jjo, simon, cushing,and them dudes, its worth it?
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We should roll with Cutler now? Lol!

:spit:
 
steelbtexan said:
15 yrs and 10 yrs of Ricky McNair and $100,000 is enough patience.

How much more patience needs to be shown before the fanbase gets the idea that all they are is suckers in a $$$$ rigged league?
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I hear you about about the bolded, but it begs the question: why are you still here? That's an honest question, not being snarky. If you feel that strongly about it why not pick a new team?

I'm specifically speaking of QB's. This team would be better served if they showed some patience with the QB's on the roster instead of getting Brady backups every off season in the hopes that the backup acquired Brady's talent through osmosis or something.

Unless you have a specific QB targeted in the draft and why you would target him, please spare me the "draft a QB in rounds 1-3" line. This draft is not a good draft for the position.
 
DocBar said:
I hear you about about the bolded, but it begs the question: why are you still here? That's an honest question, not being snarky. If you feel that strongly about it why not pick a new team?

I'm specifically speaking of QB's. This team would be better served if they showed some patience with the QB's on the roster instead of getting Brady backups every off season in the hopes that the backup acquired Brady's talent through osmosis or something.

Unless you have a specific QB targeted in the draft and why you would target him, please spare me the "draft a QB in rounds 1-3" line. This draft is not a good draft for the position.
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In your scenario this team should just totally handicap the coaching staff going into next season and tank for the year since anyone knows who has followed this team that they can't win with what they have right now. They have to make changes at the QB position. They have to get new guys in there to compete. They can't just totally ignore that position and make their players believe that they're trying to win a championship. If that were to be the plan, then we might as well trade Watt and Clowney both now and get a ton of picks and rebuild.
 
DocBar said:
I hear you about about the bolded, but it begs the question: why are you still here? That's an honest question, not being snarky. If you feel that strongly about it why not pick a new team?

I'm specifically speaking of QB's. This team would be better served if they showed some patience with the QB's on the roster instead of getting Brady backups every off season in the hopes that the backup acquired Brady's talent through osmosis or something.

Unless you have a specific QB targeted in the draft and why you would target him, please spare me the "draft a QB in rounds 1-3" line. This draft is not a good draft for the position.
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In your scenario this team should just totally handicap the coaching staff going into next season and tank for the year since anyone knows who has followed this team that they can't win with what they have right now. They have to make changes at the QB position. They have to get new guys in there to compete. They can't just totally ignore that position and make their players believe that they're trying to win a championship. If that were to be the plan, then we might as well trade Watt and Clowney both now and get a ton of picks and rebuild.
 
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