I don't think the Texans get any com pick since Bouye was an UDFA signee.Look at this table:
Anything jumping out at you? Look at the penalties per snap. He got away with a ton as well, he won't be so lucky in the future.
Letting Bouye go is actually beneficial not only in that we don't get locked into a horrible contract, but we'll get a nice comp pick. The opportunity here is in letting him walk.
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2017 Texans Free Agents/Salary Cap Situation: Where do we stand?
- Thread starter TheRealJoker
- Start date
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I don't see how that really addresses what I'm pointing out. Most of his play came this year, the furthest along in his development, and he was committing penalties at a rate significantly higher than most if not all of the players who are being paid what he will potentially be paid.
Bouye is not upper echelon. The Texans are actually quite lucky that they can turn this coaching win into a draft win by gaining a comp pick. Take it, all the work has already been done. You sign him and you'll be paying for that mistake for years.
You'll also have to pay Kevin Johnson and make a move on Kareem Jackson at the end of 2017. Jackson is far more worth paying at this point. He's actually proven to be able to stay on field and produce for extended periods of time. He gets beat, sure, but he's not grabbing his receiver everytime someone targets his man 10 yards downfield. You sign Bouye and after re-signing Johnson, it won't make sense to keep Jackson. So, in turn, you get worse CB play and pay more long-term. Jackson is paid less, $9m per, than what Bouye is projected to be paid.
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The new rule that allows the "bang bang" play works in Bouye's favor.
How long that will last, we don't know.
They change the rules all the time.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
He was signed as a 3 year FA to a one year contract. Even if he weren't, I don't know that it matters.
Number19
Hall of Fame
I knew about this but don't know what it is. Can you explain?
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
What you'll find is that the NFL is awarding DPI at an increasing rate.
76 is referring to a play in which a DB breaks on the ball, but gets there early, which is actually not being called less than before. It doesn't matter anyway, because Bouye isn't big on that. Bouye is big on grabbing guys that are running downfield to a spot to make a catch, which is the easiest type of DPI to call. It's also the easiest to exploit. All teams have to do is throw it up for grabs along the sideline downfield.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I should restate the comp pick scenario. I had forgotten that comp picks are for last year's FA signings. Even still, this is the better option by a long shot.
this is the point to review compensatory rules (as we can understand them)
The pick would not be awarded until the 2018 draft is based on
-More Texans qualifying FA sign with another team than the Texans sign from other teams
- the amount the player signs for
- how well the player and team he signs with performs.
The earliest compensatory picks occur after last regular pick in the 3rd round (usually pick 97)
The pick would not be awarded until the 2018 draft is based on
-More Texans qualifying FA sign with another team than the Texans sign from other teams
- the amount the player signs for
- how well the player and team he signs with performs.
The earliest compensatory picks occur after last regular pick in the 3rd round (usually pick 97)
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
What I see is that we will have Bouye, Simon, and Aboushi at least be pursued by other teams. I'd like to keep Simon and Aboushi, but I doubt their salary together will equal what Bouye gets. What do those 3 moves alone, assuming they go as I've said, do in regards to comp picks?
I'm sure we will let guys go that also sign with other teams. My main question is, is it based on # of FAs as well as contracts? In other words, do contracts add up and is the total difference in salary used or is it a combination of salary and number of players signed?
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My understanding (not guarantee) is that the first and most important element is number of players lost (not amount they are paid)
I think it depends on the contract he signs.
All you did not want to read about compensatory picks from Over the cap
http://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks/
http://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks/
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
That has been my understanding every year that it comes up, but I don't know for sure either.
Either way, if we can maintain a negative number of FAs acquired, we'll gain from Bouye's departure. If we have only 1 net loss of a FA, the salary used in the calculation of comp picks is the highest, right?
According to overthecap it's a combination of FA lost vs FA signed & the monies involved. Since it appears we were able to replace the FAs we lost with comparable FAs (based on the money) we won't be getting any compensatory picks.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
From last year.
I'll have to do some research on this. Like I said, either way, if we can keep our net FA losses in the positive, we'll get a 3-5 round 2018 comp pick for Bouye.
If the texans qualify then yes the amount of the salary is the largest factor in determining the round of the pick...although playing time and quality of play factor there also.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
That is my understanding.
The biggest question now is at what salary number do they count? Is it all FAs that are signed, regardless of salary number or is there some cutoff.
I'm never good at that; not quite interested more like it.
In the end, you hope that the players in the Texans uniform play well.
You could be right.
It just looks to me that Bouye was benefiting from more "non-calls" closer to the LOS.
jradMIT
Veteran
Looking at things closer the Texans aren't in that bad of a position. sure they can't go crazy, but they've got enough flexibility to keep the team together and add a few pieces. Newton, Bergstrom, Clark ~3 mil a piece, Weeden 2mil, not to mention JJo and Cush, also with 54 players under contract, for each player added you get to subtract ~500k because only the first 51 players count, so essentially the flexibility if need be is there.
I like Bouye but I think the priority should be to get a RT first, there a few guys who will cost 10-11 mil a year, but are proven much more so than Bouye. I doubt Bouye will sign for less than 10 mil a year, so it might be best to solidify the Oline, try to draft and/or sign a lesser FA for the secondary. Also throwing it out there, Romo's contract is 14 million, you have room to bring him in via trade, if you make some of the lesser cuts (not Cush or jjo).
Also the cap situation in the next few years looks good as well.
I like Bouye but I think the priority should be to get a RT first, there a few guys who will cost 10-11 mil a year, but are proven much more so than Bouye. I doubt Bouye will sign for less than 10 mil a year, so it might be best to solidify the Oline, try to draft and/or sign a lesser FA for the secondary. Also throwing it out there, Romo's contract is 14 million, you have room to bring him in via trade, if you make some of the lesser cuts (not Cush or jjo).
Also the cap situation in the next few years looks good as well.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Which is not a factor at all. It doesn't matter if he was a 1st round pick or a UDFA. His contract is up and we have to decide what to do.
This is actually a potential turning point for our franchise. We've got a lot of contracts that we need to take dead money on this or next year, adding overpaid FAs will only exacerbate the issue. This is an issue created by Rick Smith.
If we re-sign Bouye, while having ignored Quin, I'll know for sure that Rick Smith is worthless.
I've been saying it for months. It's about building the roster as a whole. You don't just sign a guy for $10M because he played half way decent for 10 games, while also ignoring a guy that played his ass off for years and actually provided something that we needed and couldn't get from any other player on the roster.
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It is a factor to JB's point, which I was responding to.
Paying Bouye is not the same as overpaying FAs. I doubt we're going to make him the highest paid corner in the league. Kareem turned down money to stay here. Bouye should probably get as much... if not more. The Texans seem to appreciate his skills on the outside more than Kjax which was probably why they were willing to let him go.
I think we should have kept Quin & let Manning go. Manning was on the back end of his career & he was playing like it. Quin was an up & coming stud. I'd hate to see Smith make that same mistake again, keeping Jjo & letting Bouye go.
We can cut Joseph & save $6.5M. We should be able to structure a deal for Bouye with a 7~9 million dollar cap hit.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
There is so much to respond to here.
We had this discussion about Quin in what, 2013? I think you were one of the few who actually agreed with me that Quin was an extremely important piece of the puzzle in Wade's scheme. If you look up my username and Quin, you'll find a good synopsis of the debate at that time. I was one of the only people arguing strongly for his return. I identified Quin as almost irreplaceable in the short term. You'll see my reasoning if you look it up. It was maybe the most important FA decision that Rick Smith had seen here, atleast in regards to retaining a player. Brooks is also up there.
One last thing on that, we didn't need to cut Manning. We could have kept them both easily. That was the biggest mistake Rick has ever made IMO. Quin was better in Wade's scheme than in Detroit and he's actually still been good in Detroit. We lost huge value on that non-deal.
Anyway, paying Bouye is the same as paying anyone. He's got more familiarity, but new contracts are long term and people can catch up to scheme and style or coaching pretty quickly, if they are worth signing.
The exception is JJo. He's already respected as a leader and he's only recently begun falling off. Funny thing is, he's still better than Bouye is right now and I'd be willing to cut Joseph to save some money for a FA safety or tackle.
Great Post
These were my thoughts exactly at the time. (Quin) and now. Bouye/JoJo.
Gotta do whatever it takes to fix the OL.
So you're saying we should let Bouye go, regardless the cost & keep Jjo at his current 2017 cap number?
Then sign someone to replace Bouye?
texanhead08
All Pro
I think Cushing is gone and I have been saying this all season. The rest is up in the air I could see Bouye staying and I could see Jonathan Joseph back next year too. I would like to see Kareem moved to safety.
Scooter
Funky
Not the first time I've seen this mentioned. Kareem while a solid tackler and delivered a few good hits, has proven himself much too fragile to take the action required at safety. He and Joseph both take the brunt of their tackles. Kareem finished the season with at least hamstring and neck issues that I'm aware of, and spends most of most seasons on the injury report because of his tackles. He's a slot corner, and a much better one than given credit for. He doesn't have the frame to play safety, especially across from an already smaller Hal.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I tend to agree with that. I think out of all our corners Jackson may be able to make it work, but I wouldn't be pushing for it.
Scooter
Funky
I absolutely understand why, he has the Glover Quin skillset. Reads, range, jack of all trades ability, and most importantly a both willing and safe tackler. He physically can't do it though. He barely has the frame to deliver shots on receivers, Jackson would be broken in half attempting to be the man to man and interior option across from Hal. Kareem is already getting crushed with his slot/run duties.
Unfortunately this is correct. Jackson is an above avg slot CB and an avg boundary CB. Terrible wide side CB.
Scooter
Funky
Truth. However ('healthy' seems to be my word of the day) he has proven capable in ridiculous situations. He asked Wade at halftime to single both Megatron and Wes Welker, the most impossible assignments in football ... and crushed both. He has it in him. I took notice of his game against the Pats and Kareem looked to be playing on one leg ... he skipped in his backpedal, lunged to create contact instead of basic turns, and couldn't close on easy targets. THAT wasn't Kareem, I would like to get Doc's opinion on the tape because IMO he shouldn't have been out there.
There was a time when KJax' arrow was pointing up, but that was so long ago. His arrow has flattened & imo gone down a bit.
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
Jaguars are expected to release Julius Thomas this offseason.
If OB decides to run a primarily two TE offense like he did with Gronk/Hernandez in New England I think Thomas would be one heck of a compliment to Fido.
If OB decides to run a primarily two TE offense like he did with Gronk/Hernandez in New England I think Thomas would be one heck of a compliment to Fido.
Brandon420tx
Flounder
I would love this, especially if we keep developing Stephen Anderson as the 3rd TE and let Griffen hit FA.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Interesting that the playoff teams and most of the better half of the league are all pretty much around $5M or less and the gawdawful teams are what really skew the curve upwards to $9M. GB being the only team above the $5M mark.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
We need to keep Bouye to complement Kevin Johnson........... and switch Karim Jackson to safety.
And Oakland. Miami and Washington were right there
Kareem needs to play full time slot corner. Johnson would make a helluva Safety
That depends on how you want to take the cap hit .... all of it now , or spread over multiple seasons ....
I'm down with cutting him too ... but I am not down with Savage , Weeden and a random draft pick.
We know Weeden isn't the answer .... and I seriously doubt that Savage is either , I'm almost completely convinced he isn't the long term solution .... and its not just the injuries , I don't see him as being much more than the same JAG's we've had at the spot over the last 3 years .... Fitz and Hoyer at best.
I really don't have a solution in mind at the moment .... but I just don't see any of the guys currently on the roster as a viable long term solution. You don't have to agree with me but that's where I'm at.
I think that Savage gives the Texans the best chance to win in 2017. I don't much care for this years draft class at QB, but if they choose one, I'm convinced he won't be ready to start in 2017.
Don't like the idea of overpaying for Bouye. Or anyone else for that matter (looking at YOU Brock).
I like even less the idea of letting one of the D's better players walk and not being sure that the guy who will take his spot won't result in loss of effectiveness. This is Vrabel's first year as DC. Now you want to weaken one of the better parts of our defense - his defense - to save a couple of bucks. Yeah, I know RAC is still around but I didn't see anything called "defense" in his new title.
I'd make him a team friendly offer say, 3 yrs, 8-9 mil with an option for a 4th. If he gets greedy and wants to test his mkt value, then we do that thing that gives us the option to match offers he gets if we so choose. So if someone (probably one of those sucky teams with lots of cap space) offers him stoopid money then we wish him well. If the other teams see what some of you say you've seen and don't think he's worth top CB money then we can match it.
I like even less the idea of letting one of the D's better players walk and not being sure that the guy who will take his spot won't result in loss of effectiveness. This is Vrabel's first year as DC. Now you want to weaken one of the better parts of our defense - his defense - to save a couple of bucks. Yeah, I know RAC is still around but I didn't see anything called "defense" in his new title.
I'd make him a team friendly offer say, 3 yrs, 8-9 mil with an option for a 4th. If he gets greedy and wants to test his mkt value, then we do that thing that gives us the option to match offers he gets if we so choose. So if someone (probably one of those sucky teams with lots of cap space) offers him stoopid money then we wish him well. If the other teams see what some of you say you've seen and don't think he's worth top CB money then we can match it.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
8-11M is not a couple of bucks. That's a lot of money for a guy who hasn't played much and when did was shaky.
Of the QB's currently on the roster , I tend to agree Savage is the best option.... I just don't see him as being that much better ... enough ?
This team is competent quarterback play away from a Lombardi Trophy .... I don't see Savage as "competent" .... even if he is better than Oz.
Number19
Hall of Fame
I've posted multiple times the direction I would take the team going into free agency and the draft, so I won't repeat.
But I believe we currently have about $25M in cap space. If I set aside $5M for signing draft picks and misc; and subtract $10M for signing Bouye, then I now have about $10M of available cap space. Just roughly, I calculate we need about $15M to resign our own FA's. I have to find approximately $5M in cuts, which is manageable.
So all in all, I think, going forward with my plan for the off season, I think I am in pretty good shape, cap wise.
However, I'm thinking I'd like to try and sign a veteran RT, and to do that I would likely need an additional $3-5M.
To do this, I would need to release one or two veterans currently on the roster that I would really like to keep. Either this, or find ways to renegotiate contracts.
I'm probably overly conservative in my numbers, so I feel pretty good about my plan being financially sound.
But I believe we currently have about $25M in cap space. If I set aside $5M for signing draft picks and misc; and subtract $10M for signing Bouye, then I now have about $10M of available cap space. Just roughly, I calculate we need about $15M to resign our own FA's. I have to find approximately $5M in cuts, which is manageable.
So all in all, I think, going forward with my plan for the off season, I think I am in pretty good shape, cap wise.
However, I'm thinking I'd like to try and sign a veteran RT, and to do that I would likely need an additional $3-5M.
To do this, I would need to release one or two veterans currently on the roster that I would really like to keep. Either this, or find ways to renegotiate contracts.
I'm probably overly conservative in my numbers, so I feel pretty good about my plan being financially sound.
I'd be surprised if we sign Bouye for much more than $9M/yr so I doubt his first year will be more than $6 or $7M against the cap.