I'm not quite sure what you mean by "opening up the offense", but the lack of a running game combined with inadequate protection pretty much dictates the options on offense. The OL was getting mauled. That can't be over emphasized.
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- Thread starter PockyAF
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I'm not quite sure what you mean by "opening up the offense", but the lack of a running game combined with inadequate protection pretty much dictates the options on offense. The OL was getting mauled. That can't be over emphasized.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
He has been in OB's system three years but there is no substitute for game time.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Of course you want to fix the OL and where ever else you have needs. You don't have just one pick in a draft.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
I agree about the OL. The right side of the OL is 2-14 bad. The left side is avg, hence the offense struggling in the red zone. BOB is doing a decent (Not great) job of compensating for this crappy OL enough to get his team into the redzone in the 1st place.
7 passes 2 of which were dropped didn't give Savage a chance to get into a rhythm.
I would lay as much blame on the OL for the crappy QB play as I would the QB. Savage is "thriving" moreso than Os because he has 3 years in the system and a much quicker release than Os. The OL has improved on run blocking since Brown returned, but even he is struggling a bit in pass pro due to rust and injury recovery.
I wouldn't draft a QB until 2018 because Os and Savage aren't going anywhere and I'd rather have Weeden as the 3rd rather than a mid-late round rookie.
Not scoring TDs deep on goal to go almost cost the Texans the game, imo
And for the first half, actually most of the game, the offensive play calling was going right into the strength of the Bengal defense. They have a stout middle and we did nothing to challenge the LB'ers
Agreed
This has been a season long problem and will continue to be until some new OL are added. Unfortunately we are stuck with what we've got for this yr. Expect more of the same.
Have we ever tried a Green Bay sweep in a goal to go situation? Have we ever done anything creative at all down there?
When the OL cant hold their blocks on simple off tackle plays, how do you think they are going to do on a sweep at the goal line?
Example: the reverses they've run never work and that's in the middle of the field. The reason the OL cant hold their blocks long enough to let the play develop.
The left side has been doing pretty good at that... speaking of which, why did we keep trying to run to the right side?
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
We haven't had a decent RT since Eric Winston. I got so sick of pointing it out that I gave up on the position. But at least we drafted Tyler Ervin to add to our RB collection.
Every guy we put in there was as good as Winston. Dude wasn't very good. I don't know why fans loved him so much.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
You think Newton was better than Winston overall?
Because he was here when there was still hope in the land
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Two of the sacks were Savage holding onto the ball looking for an open receiver. Two of the sacks were Allen and Clark getting destroyed and Savage not having time to throw.
OTOH, Savage was either taking his time to make his reads OR he was waiting for guys to get open throughout the game, and was completing some amazing passes with guys hitting him or in his face.
Yes.
Absolutely.
Winston was a road grader & a turn style. Newton may never approached Winston's feral run blocking but overall a better tackle.
Newton got to be pretty good in the run game. & even though he isn't a great pass protector, he was better than Winston.
Number19
Hall of Fame
This year's most significant injury
I've noticed recently; pregame shows, news media, this forum; when significant injuries which have had an impact this year, Newton is never mentioned. The loss of Watt is usually mentioned as the injury which has most impacted the team, but here we are with the top ranked defense - without Watt in the lineup. And here we are with a porous OL and the right side is always mentioned as the biggest problem. And the loss of Newton is never mentioned.
Even with his limitations, I would say that the loss of Newton has had the most significant impact on our team this season. Even more so than Watt.
I've noticed recently; pregame shows, news media, this forum; when significant injuries which have had an impact this year, Newton is never mentioned. The loss of Watt is usually mentioned as the injury which has most impacted the team, but here we are with the top ranked defense - without Watt in the lineup. And here we are with a porous OL and the right side is always mentioned as the biggest problem. And the loss of Newton is never mentioned.
Even with his limitations, I would say that the loss of Newton has had the most significant impact on our team this season. Even more so than Watt.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Put an inferior Clark next to an over valued Jeff Allen and we all should miss Newton. I doubt he returns next season.
There was hope in the land because we could score points ! It was the very height of the ZBS system. Until lately, we avoided drafting linemen until the third round or later .... with the exception of Chester Pitts, (2nd rd). You can find talented, lean, athletic linemen who are nimble and can run very well in the 3rd rd and later, who will flourish in zone systems, but defensive schemes and defensive linemen who are very big and very strong and very athletic have made it really difficult in obvious run situations, especially the Red Zone. Hence, if you want an elite, or simply productive offense, you've got to be willing to get the studs in the 1st and 2nd rounds. No, I'm not a pro scout, but since last night was Christmas, I did stay in a Holiday Inn !!
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
While that may be true, it's like saying the loss of Hoyer has had a significant impact. Derek Newton may be light years better than Chris Clark, which of course will make an impact, but he's still Derek Newton.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Having the top ranked D doesn't mean JJ's loss isn't significant. With JJ maybe they knock another 3 ppg off.
Our OL problems overall have affected the passing game more, not a Newton strength. IMO our rushing problems are primarily scheme/coaching related
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
Savage confirmed to start against the Titans.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Last year we had Brandon Brooks too - when he was healthy he was very good.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
Yeah, I rewatched the offensive plays. I would say it it was about a 50/50 split. The O-Line wasn't holding up for long but Savage has got to get rid of the ball quicker. O'Brien even mentioned it at the half. Savage had a terrible 1st half but he did rebound nicely in the 2nd half. Still, he has to play a hell of a lot better if we expect to win a playoff game. We got lucky to win this one.
With JJ we most likely get another turn over per game, hopefully a short field which would lead to an extra field goal per game... so at least 3 ppg.
We may also force more punts before the 30 yard line, again shortening the field for our offense.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
As superficial it may seem, at least the coach and player were able to make and execute on half time adjustment's. Which is surprising to me more about the coach than player. Only because they continue to run Lamar Miller up the middle for small gains over, and over and over....
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Brock had 21 total games to show he didn't have it, surely Savage deserves more than 1.5 ?
Im curious why you think our rushing problems are scheme/coaching related? Not saying your wrong, however I see it as a lack of talent issue. The rt side of the line is bad, Clark is really, really bad in particular. I also think Miller causes some of our issues too. While he clearly has some talent/skill, his vision isn't great. Spending the season watching Miller made me appreciate how good Foster was. It's a shame his body gave out on him. His vision was outstanding. There have been games where Miller has looked very mediocre, seeming to have trouble finding running lanes. In those same games Blue has looked much better, and I think Blue is just an average at best NFL RB.
bigmck
Rookie
It appears to me that next year we either will start Savage or Os. We pretty much know what Os has and I don't see any greater downside by playing Savage next year and find out what he can do.
Speaking of our running "attack"; I have to wonder how is it Green Bay makes their running game viable - not great but viable enough that the defense has to account for it - using a damned TE?? And we cannot get ours going with guys paid to be RBs? Are defenses THAT afraid of Aaron Rodgers that they're so scared of the pass that GB's occasional runs actually work??
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
You've figured that out after 6 1/2 quarters of football?
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Lol - it amuses me when I see people kick players to the curb after 61/2 quarters of football. Smh.
Give Savage a line and a good running game and he will ping that pellet all over the paddock.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
OB is just muddled on what he wants. Each year he has been here we have moved further from the successful ZBS team we used to be. But look at our RBs - it's not an up the gut crew, it's a ZBS crew. Traditionally ZBS teams get away with less investment in the OL, but as we have gotten away from ZBS we have not made the investment to match the change. Then the play calling - what OB can't see the right side sucks? Almost entirely inside the tackles where our shaky OL is all cluttered up. How about taking some runs outside which suits our RBs and lets the OL seal instead of power? Yeah there are pieces which are weak for our play calling. Maybe the coaches should scheme for what they have instead of what they imagine they'd like to have.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
I like it. He needs the reps.
Just be careful out there. The Titans aren't going to be in a good mood this week.
When you say TE, do you mean Ty Montgomery? He's a beast, and he's always been a tweener RB/WR type player. I think you are right in that defenses have to account for the pass against GB so it's harder to load the box with 8 guys.
I see some of your points. I think OB's desire to be multiple has hurt us a bit. I like the concept but we need more talent on the OL to be able to run the power game, and I'm not sure why we don't run outside more. Maybe it's tough to seal the edge with Clark? With regards to play calling and the right side (and the running game in general), I think defenses can effect what we do quite a bit. I'm sure it's obvious to every team our right side is significantly weaker than our left, so it's easy to load up against the LT side. It creates one on ones on the right side and our guys don't win enough. Because for most of the season our passing game has been pedestrian at best and non-existent at worst, we are constantly facing 8 man boxes and a lot of single high safety looks. When you lack the talent to beat the guy in front of you one on one, and you can't make teams pay for loading the box, running the ball can be tough. With Brock at QB you almost had to run the ball to limit his chances of making errors. Hopefully Savage develops quickly so he can start making teams pay for loading up against the run. I liked the way we played in the second half, spreading the field creating some space. Given the improvement we had in the second half, I'm hopeful we'll start spreading teams out a bit more.
I'm also hopeful we'll invest some picks towards improving the OL so that we can be more multiple on offense. I'm also hopeful that we replace Godsey as OC
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
We got a glimpse of what Savage can be against the Jags - by all means draft a new qb but in this complicated offense he had better sit his ass on the bench for a year and try to learn it.
In the meantime, we had better address our oline issues or NO qb is gonna be any good here.
I would also like to see a mean downhill runner to help Miller out as well.
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Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
The bolded is the most frustrating part. Every draft I expect this to be a priority, but we've only drafted two guys for four O-line positions of need (I'm excluding Duane Brown), and those two guys have missed months to an entire season.
Wasn't this the problem with Capers and Casserly? Casserly was drafting guys that didn't fit what Capers needed?
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
This stands out:
"Savage did have to deal with being under pressure on half of his 34 dropbacks, and had an adjusted completion percentage of 80.0 percent when under duress."
That is the inverse of Osweiler.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
The stat that stands out to me his that he plays best when blitzed. If our offense can contain a 4 man rush we should be good. When teams blitz Savage (2 weeks in a row now) he has a great completion %, strong YPA and avoids sacks. I bet he has a fast release time too. The problem is when the OL is a sieve and there is pressure with only 4 rushers. He takes too many sacks and has a lower completion %.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
patrick d. starr @PatDStat
Tom Savage has made some throws in 6.5 quarters that Brock Osweiler hasn’t made all season.
Tom Savage has made some throws in 6.5 quarters that Brock Osweiler hasn’t made all season.
Porky
Hall of Fame
Frankly, I don't think Savage or even Staubach can save us from the craptitude that is BOB and his right hand man Godsey and their stinky offense.
Granted, the line isn't good - especially on the right side. We need to draft a RT capable of moving to LT if needed in the first round or at worst 2nd. We also need a guard in the 2nd or 3rd. Assuming (big assumption) that Martin comes back and takes the C spot, we could potentially have 3 new starters there - all first or 2nd rounders.
But part of me says totally blaming the line is a crock. Yes, it's a contributing factor, but the whole offense just reeks from the overall design and concept down to the individual play calls. Vanilla called and wants it's playbook back.
Cak also made a very good point about the line as well and I'd echo those thoughts as well. We're moving away from ZBS but we don't have the mauling line we need for straight up the gut power blocking. There must be all of 2 running plays in this play book. I swear that in 40+ years of NFL fandom, I have never seen a more dull, plodding, and predictable run game or pass offense for that matter, although perhaps we've found the cure for insomnia. And i H-A-T-E the pistol. Hate it with a passion. It totally limits what you can do in the run and pass game. Get under the damn center for crying out loud unless the down and distance call for shotgun.
Watching Dallas play and destroy the Lions last night reminded me of what a good NFL offense looks like. We're so far from that here that you couldn't find it with a telescope and a satellite.
As much as I think Billy Bob OB needs to go, reality says that's not going to happen. He won the division on the back of the defense and the OUTSTANDING job RAC and the assistants have done. However, (and this is miracle stuff here) I'm hoping McNair has a "come to Jesus" talk with BOB much like he did with Kubes a few years back. Kubes ended up tossing his DC and hiring Wade. I'm sure y'all remember that. And next year, viola, the D was legit. Why can't at the least, McNair tell BOB, Godsey has to go. I want an independent OC with a freaking track record of success and I want you to basically turn the offense and it's design over to him and you coach the big picture stuff and collaborate.
What I wouldn't give to have Baby Shanny back here. There are other good candidates as well. Question is would they come here since BOB has an offense that for some crazy reason he seems to think is worth a ****. It's not Billy Bob. It's terrible, it sucks, please for the love of God get someone in here that can change this offense and make it at least mediocre. 3 years of watching your offense suck is enough.
And for the record, I'll take prime health Winston over prime health Newton. I doubt Newt plays another down in the NFL, but it would be nice if he got back to the point of "depth".
Granted, the line isn't good - especially on the right side. We need to draft a RT capable of moving to LT if needed in the first round or at worst 2nd. We also need a guard in the 2nd or 3rd. Assuming (big assumption) that Martin comes back and takes the C spot, we could potentially have 3 new starters there - all first or 2nd rounders.
But part of me says totally blaming the line is a crock. Yes, it's a contributing factor, but the whole offense just reeks from the overall design and concept down to the individual play calls. Vanilla called and wants it's playbook back.
Cak also made a very good point about the line as well and I'd echo those thoughts as well. We're moving away from ZBS but we don't have the mauling line we need for straight up the gut power blocking. There must be all of 2 running plays in this play book. I swear that in 40+ years of NFL fandom, I have never seen a more dull, plodding, and predictable run game or pass offense for that matter, although perhaps we've found the cure for insomnia. And i H-A-T-E the pistol. Hate it with a passion. It totally limits what you can do in the run and pass game. Get under the damn center for crying out loud unless the down and distance call for shotgun.
Watching Dallas play and destroy the Lions last night reminded me of what a good NFL offense looks like. We're so far from that here that you couldn't find it with a telescope and a satellite.
As much as I think Billy Bob OB needs to go, reality says that's not going to happen. He won the division on the back of the defense and the OUTSTANDING job RAC and the assistants have done. However, (and this is miracle stuff here) I'm hoping McNair has a "come to Jesus" talk with BOB much like he did with Kubes a few years back. Kubes ended up tossing his DC and hiring Wade. I'm sure y'all remember that. And next year, viola, the D was legit. Why can't at the least, McNair tell BOB, Godsey has to go. I want an independent OC with a freaking track record of success and I want you to basically turn the offense and it's design over to him and you coach the big picture stuff and collaborate.
What I wouldn't give to have Baby Shanny back here. There are other good candidates as well. Question is would they come here since BOB has an offense that for some crazy reason he seems to think is worth a ****. It's not Billy Bob. It's terrible, it sucks, please for the love of God get someone in here that can change this offense and make it at least mediocre. 3 years of watching your offense suck is enough.
And for the record, I'll take prime health Winston over prime health Newton. I doubt Newt plays another down in the NFL, but it would be nice if he got back to the point of "depth".
Nice post. And very much agree on the bolded. Hell, I'd even like to see Norv Turner as OC here, and I don't particularly like him