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Injury Thread

CloakNNNdagger said:
Will Fuller's exit reported as a generic "leg injury," as I suspected is actually a re-injury of his hamstring..........he initially only missed 1 game and had since not participated in a contact practice up to this last game.
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For you and Otisbean, are there any studies of sprinters' ham strings in track ? Olympic performers would be interesting. Also basketball players and tennis players who do more high bursts with cuts and stops.

Any info on Big Wilfork's groin tear?
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Very interesting and timely......thanks for posting. I first became aware of the SAID principle around the time of the new CBA. The fact is that before this CBA, these type of injuries were not as prevalent..........and certainly so for recurrent strains. The SAID principle would not ignore the need for an adequate rest period following injury. Some teams arbitrarily gloss over this important phase of rehab. An acutely torn hamstring muscle does not tolerate too early applied stress. This goes along with what I've been saying forever.........you can't stress/rehab the hamstrings safely by less than a handful of "limited" practices during the week .............then throw the player into a real time game where the hamstring is exposed to closer to maximal stresses...........and not expect that something bad is more likely to happen on Sundays.

One last thought, as you've noted above, sprinting indeed seems to be an excellent tool for accelerated rehab of a hamstring. However, sprinting "protection" of the hamstring in football does not account for all the forceful intermittent and unequal forces applied to the hamstring when the player is required to repeatedly stop and accelerate and change direction..................and many times against great resistant loads. This is the same reason that when fans see players sprinting full out on the sidelines after severe knee injuries and get so excited about the player almost being ready to hit the field again, they don't understand how far away that player may be from returning to game play.......or even realistically ever returning.
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There are so many considerations for hamstrings, and its a huge topic in track and field. Here are a couple of other things that were discussed:

Retraining of hamstrings - once the injury calms down a bit, start sprinting again, BUT use very short distances (like 10yds), full recovery between reps and there can be no pain The acceleration position isn't as stressful to the hamstring complex because of the range of motion/trunk position, and the velocities in acceleration are actually fairly low. Derek discussed building a lot volume in the sort sprints and gradually increasing the distances to allow the velocities to build tissue tolerance

Teaching proper technique- Loren Landow was at the conference as well, and he and Derek both stressed the importance of proper technique. When technique breaks down its easy for the muscles to get into stressful positions

IMG_0020.JPG

The foot should strike the ground and then lift off in the blue area. If the foot strikes in the orange area in front there will be excessive stress to the hamstrings, and if you let the foot get into the orange area in the rear there will be excessive stress to the hip flexor/groin. If you get athletes excessively fatigued, its easier to have form break downs which equals higher risk of injuries

Ive heard other coaches discuss hip firing patterns being an issue. The hip should fire 1) glute 2)hamstring 3)opposite side low back. There's a common situation where the order is off and the hamstring fires first. This would over stress the hamstring predisposing it to injury

They also dicussed excessive reliance on weight training causing issues. Of course you want strong athletes but you get to a point where you're strong enough, and chasing more strength can cause issues. On a side note i see this when i watch John Simon, he's supposed to be a beast in the weight room, squatting like 700lbs. When I watch him play, he's not particularly fast, and he looks stiff in his movement.
 
Strong is in a boot with a severe ankle sprain. His MRI results delineating the extent of his injury has not yet been reported.

Wilfork is reported to be walking around pretty well after sustained a groin strain. A groin strain can many times become a nagging chronic problem.......easily re-injured. O'Brien has said he will be "OK." The problem is that walking around OK is much different than knowing how his injury will respond to game play.............as an NT.......as a 350 pounder.......against constant extreme Oline resistance............which many times requires holding off multiple mammoths.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The problem is that walking around OK is much different than knowing how his injury will respond to game play.............as an NT.......as a 350 pounder.......against constant extreme Oline resistance............which many times requires holding off multiple mammoths.
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C'mon Doc, we all know better than that.
 
Scooter said:
C'mon Doc, we all know better than that.
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I was actually being generous with the "underestimate." He is listed at 325 lbs. What's interesting is that as a Hurricane, he was listed a 344 lbs and he looked heavier than that at the time. Today, he certainly doesn't look like he's LOST 19. In fact, he looks like he has GAINED more than 19 pounds since his Hurricane days.

a4f360eb89ec674033151168017137da.jpg





And this pic is without pads.:

9393272_vince-wilfork-wears-giant-overalls-to-j_c2a1eac9_m.jpg
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Yes.
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Apologies CND - Work pulled me away and I posted what I had written....

It has been discussed multiple times, but I don't remember seeing a strong opinion on what could be done (otisbean may also have some insights here). The CBA is in place and this is how teams have to prepare and practice now, and while it doesn't seem to have really limited the number of severe injuries that occur in practice (season ending type injuries) there do seem to be more soft tissue injuries now.

Can anything be done, new training habits adopted etc. to reduce soft tissue injuries, or is this just our new "norm" for football?
 
Lol yeah I love that he's listed at 325.

CloakNNNdagger said:
And this pic is without pads.:

9393272_vince-wilfork-wears-giant-overalls-to-j_c2a1eac9_m.jpg
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There is no chance that man is under 385lbs, and I'm being generous because I don't see how he's under 400lbs. This pic doesn't have another 300+lb player to show the difference in size between Wilfork and other giants ... unless Wilfork already ate him.
 
I actually remember a discussion about Wilfork on this Board (or maybe its predecessor) in the context of the 2004 NFL Draft, the year we took D-Rob. But one of the posters said a man as big and heavy as Wilfork would have a relative short shelf life in the NFL, said fat men don't last in the league very long.
So anyway ole fat-guy Vince Wilfork has hung in there pretty well all things considered this being his 13th year in the NFL..
 
IDEXAN said:
I actually remember a discussion about Wilfork on this Board (or maybe its predecessor) in the context of the 2004 NFL Draft, the year we took D-Rob. But one of the posters said a man as big and heavy as Wilfork would have a relative short shelf life in the NFL, said fat men don't last in the league very long.
So anyway ole fat-guy Vince Wilfork has hung in there pretty well all things considered this being his 13th year in the NFL..
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There have been a number of giants with long careers. My favorite is probably Mt Washington who played 17 years and generously listed at 375lbs. There's also Pat Williams who played 15 years, and was nowhere near his listed weight of 317lbs.
 
FuzzyLogic said:
Apologies CND - Work pulled me away and I posted what I had written....

It has been discussed multiple times, but I don't remember seeing a strong opinion on what could be done (otisbean may also have some insights here). The CBA is in place and this is how teams have to prepare and practice now, and while it doesn't seem to have really limited the number of severe injuries that occur in practice (season ending type injuries) there do seem to be more soft tissue injuries now.

Can anything be done, new training habits adopted etc. to reduce soft tissue injuries, or is this just our new "norm" for football?
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I have posted many thoughts on many aspects of this subject. I'm sorry, but at this time I do not have time to go back and collect them. You should have luck if you do a search of the subject with my avatar. BTW, I am of the school that believes that no techniques in prevention will neutralize the harm that the new CBA has produced
 
IDEXAN said:
I actually remember a discussion about Wilfork on this Board (or maybe its predecessor) in the context of the 2004 NFL Draft, the year we took D-Rob. But one of the posters said a man as big and heavy as Wilfork would have a relative short shelf life in the NFL, said fat men don't last in the league very long.
So anyway ole fat-guy Vince Wilfork has hung in there pretty well all things considered this being his 13th year in the NFL..
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Re-reading this, I'm almost certain that it was on the previous board. I was arguing with fire coming from my fingertips to trade up for Sean Taylor (to this day I have never been so singular on a draft pick), and once that wasn't an option I begged to trade down for Wilfork.
 
Scooter said:
Re-reading this, I'm almost certain that it was on the previous board. I was arguing with fire coming from my fingertips to trade up for Sean Taylor (to this day I have never been so singular on a draft pick), and once that wasn't an option I begged to trade down for Wilfork.
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Sean Taylor was one of my highest rated players coming out of college ever. It was absolutely amazing what that guy could do on a football field. It was like combining Ed Reed with Ronnie Lott. It is a still a shame that his life and career was cut short. I would like your post 1000 times if possible. I was also high on Wilfork but never thought he would become what he did.

Edit: Sorry to Derail didn't realize this was the injury thread.
 
Teams take different approaches to injury reporting
Posted November 7, 2016

This season, the “probable” category for pregame injury reporting was removed. Now players need to be either eliminated entirely from the report and deemed ready to play, or placed in the “questionable” category.

With the help of followers, I have gathered new injury reporting statistics. This season, approximately three out of every four (~75%) players listed as “questionable” are active league-wide, compared to just over half (~55%) in the previous year.

At the halfway mark, it has become clear that teams take different approaches to injury reporting. I am not accusing any teams of manipulation or cheating; however, the numbers lead to stark contrasts. Over 90% of the “questionables” suit up for the Bengals, Panthers and Redskins. In contrast, under 50% of the same category are active for teams like the Titans, Jaguars and Seahawks.

Here is a full list of teams and the percentage of “questionable” players that are ultimately activated each week through the first half of this season.

RANK TEAM PERCENTAGE

  1. Bengals 100%
  2. Panthers 95%
  3. Redskins 91%
  4. Chargers 90%
  5. Bears 86%
  6. Buccaneers 84%
  7. Colts 84%
  8. Dolphins 80%
  9. Lions 79%
  10. Texans 79%
  11. Rams 77%
  12. Cardinals 76%
  13. Bills 76%
  14. Jets 75%
  15. Steelers 75%
  16. Raiders 72%
  17. Giants 71%
  18. Patriots 70%
  19. Cowboys 69%
  20. Ravens 66%
  21. Saints 65%
  22. Packers 64%
  23. Chiefs 64%
  24. Eagles 64%
  25. Falcons 60%
  26. Browns 59%
  27. 49ers 58%
  28. Broncos 54%
  29. Vikings 50%
  30. Seahawks 47%
  31. Jaguars 41%
  32. Titans 38%
Microanalysis will show many reasons for the differences. For example, the Bengals average only one player listed as “questionable” weekly but every player (a league low total of eight thru eight weeks) has been active. Some teams use the “doubtful” and “out” categories more liberally and thus have a higher percentage of “questionable” suit up.
 
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Post Jags game.

Sarah Barshop, ESPN Staff Writer
Lamar Miller said he still feels the injury to his shoulder, especially when he gets hit, but that it was feeling better than it did against Detroit in Week 7. He has been limited in the past two games with the injury.
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Would have expected it to "feel better" after basically a 2 week rest with no significant trauma even in practice. The question now is how will he be affected after this recent game trauma.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Post Jags game.



Would have expected it to "feel better" after basically a 2 week rest with no significant trauma even in practice. The question now is how will he be affected after this recent game trauma.
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He seemed to get hit solidly on left side and shoulder on one of his rushes. I remember cringing and thinking "uh oh." Doc if you find any good news on either Fuller or Strong please post.
 
When Grimes reportedly fractured his fibula the very end of Sept and the Texans announced that he would be out for a month, I said that 6-8 weeks was much more realistic. As I posted in the Texans vs Jags Injury Report thread, I believed that Grimes' fractured fibula injury was what actually would keep him out of the game if he did not play.......not specifically his 'Illness." This impression continues by the fact the Texans have already just reported him OUT for the upcoming Raiders game, even though the explanation is more due to illness.
 
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Simon sustained an undefined chest injury that did not allow him to return to play.

Ervin did exactly what I was concerned prior to the game (posted at the beginning of the Game Day thread)...............in high altitude conditions, he caught the rock hard ball in his chest, not his hands. The higher the altitude the lower the air pressure is. So the air inside the football feels less pressure at a higher elevation and can expand out to make the football look more inflated and feel much much firmer. Ervin, of course, managed to have the ball bounce off of this chest, not before causing what he will now be listed with a significant injury to his ribs.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Simon sustained an undefined chest injury that did not allow him to return to play.

Ervin did exactly what I was concerned prior to the game (posted at the beginning of the Game Day thread)...............in high altitude conditions, he caught the rock hard ball in his chest, not his hands. The higher the altitude the lower the air pressure is. So the air inside the football feels less pressure at a higher elevation and can expand out to make the football look more inflated and feel much much firmer. Ervin, of course, managed to have the ball bounce off of this chest, not before causing what he will now be listed with a significant injury to his ribs.
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Ervin's injury came after the fumble. He and a Raider went sliding for the ball and collided really hard into Ervin's chest, followed by being trapped under the pile. There was a replay from behind the play (shown later in the game) where you can see the collision and Ervin's reaction.
 
Scooter said:
Ervin's injury came after the fumble. He and a Raider went sliding for the ball and collided really hard into Ervin's chest, followed by being trapped under the pile. There was a replay from behind the play (shown later in the game) where you can see the collision and Ervin's reaction.
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I saw that replay. And I know how it was characterized. But Ervin's reaction would have just as likely been to already injured ribs. I've played football in the Colorado mountains. Being directly hit by the ball in any part of the body is an extremely humbling in body experience.
 
JJo is having problems breathing after the "rib" injury that knocked him out of the game. He will be undergoing an MRI today.
 
Braxton Miller's shoulder injury was originally reported as leaving him in a condition that would allow him to return. As I posted in the Game Day thread, I believe he suffered a shoulder dislocation/subluxation of the same shoulder that side tracked his QB career. No further reports have cropped up. I am sure though that he will undergo an MRI today. However, I would be surprised if this injury does not result in another surgery.
 
The announcers said Savage was inactive because of an infection on his elbow. Makes me nervous after JJ's bout with Staph last year.
 
UKTexan said:
Any up-dates on Clowney's situation?
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O'Brien has said he doesn't know about Clowney's status against the Colts, and will not know until later in the week. If as I suspect, his main problem is a triceps tendon tendonitis/tear, I would not expect him to be out there Sunday.
 
Cushing playing with 2 fractures in his back. Thoughts, CnD?

"There's two fractures in my back, but those are things you have to push through," Cushing said after practice Wednesday. "Obviously, it's painful, and I'm not able to get as many reps as I want in practice right now, but I'll be out there Sunday with my team. I want the guys to know they can count on me, and that means the world to me.

"I've missed a number of games with season-ending injuries, and I don't want to miss any more time, so as long as I can walk, I'll be out there."

Cushing, announced Wednesday as the Texans' nominee for the Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year Award, added, "We're all dealing with one thing or another at this time of year, but you have to give everything you have, especially because the games are so important.

"It's a pride issue and the nature of the game, the physicality of the sport. We understand it when we start to play the game. I chose a long time ago to be a dedicated teammate who finished what was asked of me because this is what I signed up for. That's something instilled in me by my dad."
 
DocBar said:
Cushing playing with 2 fractures in his back. Thoughts, CnD?

"There's two fractures in my back, but those are things you have to push through," Cushing said after practice Wednesday. "Obviously, it's painful, and I'm not able to get as many reps as I want in practice right now, but I'll be out there Sunday with my team. I want the guys to know they can count on me, and that means the world to me.

"I've missed a number of games with season-ending injuries, and I don't want to miss any more time, so as long as I can walk, I'll be out there."

Cushing, announced Wednesday as the Texans' nominee for the Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year Award, added, "We're all dealing with one thing or another at this time of year, but you have to give everything you have, especially because the games are so important.

"It's a pride issue and the nature of the game, the physicality of the sport. We understand it when we start to play the game. I chose a long time ago to be a dedicated teammate who finished what was asked of me because this is what I signed up for. That's something instilled in me by my dad."
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I believe you already came across it, but my thoughts/explanation (including pics) are posted in the Wednesday TEXANS VS COLTS 2 INJURY REPORT
 
Texas Jake said:
http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/amp/Texans-rookie-Braxton-Miller-has-bruised-10780213.php

Here is an article that says Braxton's shoulder injury will not require surgery and he may be back for the Colts game.
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I saw that report yesterday...........I remain skeptical as to the "benign presentation" of his injury with the claim of "avoided structural damage". Labral tears are difficult to see on MRIs. MRIs even with contrast (as is the case with CT scans) can still be challenging in diagnosing shoulder labral tears, especially in an already postoperative shoulder. The only way to accurately rule out a labral tear is to have a direct look into the joint with arthroscopy........I suspect that if he does play, he will be compromised for the remainder of the season and will be a significant risk for subsequent subluxation/dislocation. I still would be surprised if he is able to avoid the need for surgery sometime in the future.
 
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