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2016 Offensive Line thread

76Texan said:
For some reason, Prescott was a guy that I didn't get to study.
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Nobody including the team that drafted him had a clue about Prescott. The Cowboys sat on their hands as three complete rounds went befor their eyes with nobody taking the
MS QB. But wait it gets better, when the Cowboys "first" draft pick of the 4th round came up they took somebody named Charles Tapper, a DE out Oklahoma with that pick (third pick in the 4th round). They also had the 37th pick of the 4th round which they used to draft Prescott. In other words Dallas was incredibly lucky because they got a starting caliber QB who could start and succeeded in his rookie year with a late 4th round pick.
I'm only telling you this because obviously all of those teams and scouts who get paid to study Prescott totally missed his potential.
 
IDEXAN said:
Nobody including the team that drafted him had a clue about Prescott. The Cowboys sat on their hands as three complete rounds went befor their eyes with nobody taking the
MS QB. But wait it gets better, when the Cowboys "first" draft pick of the 4th round came up they took somebody named Charles Tapper, a DE out Oklahoma with that pick (third pick in the 4th round). They also had the 37th pick of the 4th round which they used to draft Prescott. In other words Dallas was incredibly lucky because they got a starting caliber QB who could start and succeeded in his rookie year with a late 4th round pick.
I'm only telling you this because obviously all of those teams and scouts who get paid to study Prescott totally missed his potential.
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I agree, but I think we should only count the teams that need a QB or need to groom a QB (teams that have older QBs) or a team that have a shaky QB situation in general.
 
Hervoyel said:
....and that was when I had the idea for the flux capacitor which is what makes time travel possible.

As soon as I can buy a DeLorean and find some plutonium I'm going back in time to stop the drafting of David Carr.
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So great, now Joey Harrington is the failed QB of the first pick in the 2002 draft of the Houston Texans. ;)
 
JB said:
Until they do... ain't you jealous




I wanted both Elliot and Prescott bad! See there, listen to me next time RS!
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I like both but knowing what we have in Fuller would make it difficult for me to take Elliott over him. As you know to get #4 pick would have been too costly.
 
JB said:
No, I'm gonna ride with Herv and pull a Tonya Harding on Harrington
so we will be left with no choice but take Peppers
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Now, now.... no need for that level of violence. Just lock McNair in the closet until the draft is over and let the football people make that pick.
I'll go too if you need someone to sit on him and keep him away from the draft.
 
ObsiWan said:
He still has to make the throws. When Osweiler has good protection (check out the Colts game), his throws are off or late or both. Top flight O-line or not, he STILL has to execute.
Then there's the fact that Prescott can run effectively should the pocket protection break down.
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When a QB has had spotty protection, it can become hard for him to trust it when he does have time. I think that is contributing to a degree to Brock's problems. Hopefully it is something he can shake quickly. He was playing really tight at the beginning of the Colts game and I was getting some negative vibes from his body language. With the hype about the confrontation between him and OB, I was really concerned we had a serious problem. That he was able to settle himself down and turn it around that game was a good sign - not all players can do that. I am eager to see how he fares in Denver. I anticipate a lot of heat coming his way.
 
ObsiWan said:
Now, now.... no need for that level of violence. Just lock McNair in the closet until the draft is over and let the football people make that pick.
I'll go too if you need someone to sit on him and keep him away from the draft.
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Even with hindsight you still trust Casserly?
 
JB said:
:hankpalm:
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I am satisfied with L. Miller. Elliot is a great back (he also has a great OL in front of him), but the cost of 22 to 4 is just too high a price to pay for him. The problem with trading up that high for a RB is with the pounding they take, you never know how many quality years you are going to get out of them.
 
Texas Jake said:
I am satisfied with L. Miller. Elliot is a great back (he also has a great OL in front of him), but the cost of 22 to 4 is just too high a price to pay for him. The problem with trading up that high for a RB is with the pounding they take, you never know how many quality years you are going to get out of them.
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I don't think anyone ever suggested moving up to 4 to get him... I made a simple comment that I would have liked both him & Prescott
 
JB said:
Even with hindsight you still trust Casserly?
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Yes actually. As long as he stays away from QBs.
Check the history

2002 - Fred Weary, Chester Pitts, Jonathan Wells
2003 - Dominick Williams, Andre Johnson
2004 - Dunta Robinson, Glenn Earl, Jason Babin
2005 - Got nuthin'. Missed on Frank Gore, Justin Tuck, and Darren Sproles. Aaron Rodgers was in this draft but, again, I don't want Casserly picking QBs. :D
2006 - Mario, DeMeco, OD, Winston

If you're fair about it, Casserly actually hit on a couple of solid-to-good players every draft except for '05.
Nobody bats 1.000.
 
ObsiWan said:
Yes actually. As long as he stays away from QBs.
Check the history

2002 - Fred Weary, Chester Pitts, Jonathan Wells
2003 - Dominick Williams, Andre Johnson
2004 - Dunta Robinson, Glenn Earl, Jason Babin
2005 - Got nuthin'. Missed on Frank Gore, Justin Tuck, and Darren Sproles. Aaron Rodgers was in this draft but, again, I don't want Casserly picking QBs. :D
2006 - Mario, DeMeco, OD, Winston

If you're fair about it, Casserly actually hit on a couple of solid-to-good players every draft except for '05.
Nobody bats 1.000.
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Just curious but do you not want Casserly picking QB's just because of David Carr or because of the complete package on him as a GM? I kind of think Carr was a Bob McNair rookie call that any GM working for the Texans at the time would have had to be OK with. Most of the rest of his QB's here were late round swing-and-a-miss picks I don't hold against him.

Now Dave Ragone. I got no answer for that one. No idea what he was thinking on that one.
 
Hervoyel said:
Just curious but do you not want Casserly picking QB's just because of David Carr or because of the complete package on him as a GM? I kind of think Carr was a Bob McNair rookie call that any GM working for the Texans at the time would have had to be OK with.
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I understand McNair is the boss. But especially back then, he knew he didn't know what he didn't know.


But even in hindsight, I don't have a problem with drafting David Carr. I don't even have a problem starting him as early as we did. My problem is with the decision to leave him out there as long as we did. I think it was obvious midway through the third season that he was not a starting calibre QB.

Benching him at that time might have been the thing to get him back on track.

Instead, it appeared the Texans were putting blame on everyone else.
 
thunderkyss said:
I understand McNair is the boss. But especially back then, he knew he didn't know what he didn't know.


But even in hindsight, I don't have a problem with drafting David Carr. I don't even have a problem starting him as early as we did. My problem is with the decision to leave him out there as long as we did. I think it was obvious midway through the third season that he was not a starting calibre QB.

Benching him at that time might have been the thing to get him back on track.

Instead, it appeared the Texans were putting blame on everyone else.
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I'm inclined to agree with you for the most part but not at 1-1. I think McNair fell in love with the idea of having that good looking, clean-cut family man with the canon arm as the face of his franchise from the very start and that was going to happen.

I also don't really hold it against Bob either. What first time NFL owner isn't going to get his way at 1-1 in his first draft? That was his to do with as he wished and I think he did.
 
Hervoyel said:
I'm inclined to agree with you for the most part but not at 1-1. I think McNair fell in love with the idea of having that good looking, clean-cut family man with the canon arm as the face of his franchise from the very start and that was going to happen.

I also don't really hold it against Bob either. What first time NFL owner isn't going to get his way at 1-1 in his first draft? That was his to do with as he wished and I think he did.
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I dont blame McNair for drafting Carr.

I do blame McNair for not telling Casserly to do whatever it takes to get an OL to protect Carr.

History is repeating its self this yr.
 
Because the Texans have shown to be an organization that is reactive instead of proactive they usually wait until a situation presents itself and creates, desperation, a time to panic, rush to judgement and an overreaction at a time when the FIX and long term solution is usually at it's weakest. The 2017 NFL Draft is a case in point. The Texans weakest link is clearly one of the worst OL in the league. While the 2016 NFL Draft had a banner year for OTs, 2017 looks like it could be one of the leanest.
 
Texian said:
Because the Texans have shown to be an organization that is reactive instead of proactive they usually wait until a situation presents itself and creates, desperation, a time to panic, rush to judgement and an overreaction at a time when the FIX and long term solution is usually at it's weakest.
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I don't have a big issue with what you've said here. I think there is a strong possibility this may be true.

Texian said:
The 2017 NFL Draft is a case in point.
The Texans weakest link is clearly one of the worst OL in the league. While the 2016 NFL Draft had a banner year for OTs, 2017 looks like it could be one of the leanest.
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I think it's too early to say this... the weakest link... blah, blah... I have no problem drafting OL. Still before the 2016 draft I thought our biggest issues were safety, RB, & TE. I still don't like what I see at the safety position & our deep CB position has gotten awful thin. So I don't know what issues will need to be addressed when the season is over.

And... we're six weeks in. We have a top 5 rusher, a top 10 rushing attack. Only 11 teams have allowed less sacks than the Houston Texans.

Yeah, eyeballing it, Brock Osweiler is being pressured. But no more than any other QB in the league.

They clearly like Derek Newton. I don't know why, but they do. Soon as he's healthy, he'll be the starting RT. They clearly like Duane Brown & believe he's got several years left in him. They got their LG. & frankly I think the kid has been playing pretty well this season. They drafted a center, they brought in a LG.

Things don't work & I would understand if we're criticizing the Texans for making moves that don't work, but to say that they're late to the party in 2017... you're pretty much saying they did not address the issue at all in 2014 or 2015, when clearly they did.

People want to complain about depth issues, but.... Greg Mancz is playing well, imo... he is the back up. Aboushi was graded high this preseason by PFF... he's the back up. Clark, I think he filled in well for a back up & should be challenging for our RT spot. Then there's Kendall Lamm(sp), no probably not a starter on any roster, but he's getting a lot of snaps & looks good.

We may not be winning any OL awards anytime soon, but as long as we're in the top half (third) of the league in rushing & protecting our QB... c'mon guys. Give it a break.
 
Texian said:
Because the Texans have shown to be an organization that is reactive instead of proactive they usually wait until a situation presents itself and creates, desperation, a time to panic, rush to judgement and an overreaction at a time when the FIX and long term solution is usually at it's weakest. The 2017 NFL Draft is a case in point. The Texans weakest link is clearly one of the worst OL in the league. While the 2016 NFL Draft had a banner year for OTs, 2017 looks like it could be one of the leanest.
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Look at Dallas . The Cowboys turn around was Stephen tying Jerry up so he couldn't draft Johnny Football . They drafted Zack Martin to go along with Smith and Fredrick . They then stole Collins and drafted Elliott and Dak who were plug and play and doing really well . They have four 1st round talents on the OL and can get five yards even if you know the play . The Texans have invested a 1st round pick and two 2nds . One may be a bust and the other is hurt . Scheme teams believe that with their complicated playbook they can out smart their opponent and give less attention to the OL . This works if you have Brady .
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
Look at Dallas . The Cowboys turn around was Stephen tying Jerry up so he couldn't draft Johnny Football . They drafted Zack Martin to go along with Smith and Fredrick . They then stole Collins and drafted Elliott and Dak who were plug and play and doing really well . They have four 1st round talents on the OL and can get five yards even if you know the play . The Texans have invested a 1st round pick and two 2nds . One may be a bust and the other is hurt . Scheme teams believe that with their complicated playbook they can out smart their opponent and give less attention to the OL . This works if you have Brady .
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Again, offensively we pretty much ended up very similar to Dallas last season, with the same QB issue..... except our QB issues started week 1.

They gave up 36 sacks, we gave up 33.

They ran for 118 ypg, we ran for 110 ypg.

We both went out & got a new starting RB. We also drafted a Center & brought in a LG.

If nothing else, I think we need to stop using Dallas as an example.
 
Hervoyel said:
Just curious but do you not want Casserly picking QB's just because of David Carr or because of the complete package on him as a GM? I kind of think Carr was a Bob McNair rookie call that any GM working for the Texans at the time would have had to be OK with. Most of the rest of his QB's here were late round swing-and-a-miss picks I don't hold against him.

Now Dave Ragone. I got no answer for that one. No idea what he was thinking on that one.
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His history at picking QBs leaves a lot to be desired.
2002 - Carr. He might have been good had our HC been someone like today's Kubiak or Holmgren who are pretty good at grooming QBs. We had Capers. idonno:
2003 - Dave Ragone (Louisville) AND Drew Henson (Michigan) --- Why two when you already spent your franchise's very first pick on a QB? Makes no sense.
2004 - B. J. Symons (Texas Tech) --- Here's your 7th rd "swing & miss".

But why not bundle that late pick with a 3rd (we had two in '03) or 4th or 5th and get someone that might have been good depth? Especially when you know the boss (McNair) is smitten with the guy he picked in '02.

It's all water under the bridge now anyway.
 
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I see some blaming Casserly for the Carr pick. There shouldn't be any doubt that it was McNair who pulled the trigger on Carr, he wanted him to be the face of the franchise. McNair had Carr spending a lot of his time on the catwalk.

 
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ObsiWan said:
His history at picking QBs leaves a lot to be desired.
2002 - Carr. He might have been good had our HC been someone like today's Kubiak or Holmgren who are pretty good at grooming QBs. We had Capers. idonno:
2003 - Dave Ragone (Louisville) AND Drew Henson (Michigan) --- Why two when you already spent your franchise's very first pick on a QB? Makes no sense.
2004 - B. J. Symons (Texas Tech) --- Here's your 7th rd "swing & miss".

But why not bundle that late pick with a 3rd (we had two in '03) or 4th or 5th and get someone that might have been good depth? Especially when you know the boss (McNair) is smitten with the guy he picked in '02.

It's all water under the bridge now anyway.
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Henson became a 3rd round pick when we traded him to the Cowboys. That was a good investment of a 6th rounder IMO.

Carr was McNair, Symons was a 7 and I don't really hold those against anyone.

Ragone is the only "QB WTF?" in Casserly's wheelhouse while he was here. IMO of course.
 
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thunderkyss said:
Again, offensively we pretty much ended up very similar to Dallas last season, with the same QB issue..... except our QB issues started week 1.

They gave up 36 sacks, we gave up 33.

They ran for 118 ypg, we ran for 110 ypg.

We both went out & got a new starting RB. We also drafted a Center & brought in a LG.

If nothing else, I think we need to stop using Dallas as an example.
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Dallas ended up with a journeyman back and Weeden who was benched .
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
To bad Dallas didn't play the Titans or Colts .
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I'm just saying offensively we finished 2015 very similar to Dallas struggling with the same issues... journeymen QBs, a need to upgrade the RB position... & we didn't have to spend the three 1st round draft picks on the OL (even though late first, early second gets you the same calibre player). & Brandon Weeden happen to play for both teams.
 
thunderkyss said:
I don't have a big issue with what you've said here. I think there is a strong possibility this may be true.



I think it's too early to say this... the weakest link... blah, blah... I have no problem drafting OL. Still before the 2016 draft I thought our biggest issues were safety, RB, & TE. I still don't like what I see at the safety position & our deep CB position has gotten awful thin. So I don't know what issues will need to be addressed when the season is over.

And... we're six weeks in. We have a top 5 rusher, a top 10 rushing attack. Only 11 teams have allowed less sacks than the Houston Texans.

Yeah, eyeballing it, Brock Osweiler is being pressured. But no more than any other QB in the league.

They clearly like Derek Newton. I don't know why, but they do. Soon as he's healthy, he'll be the starting RT. They clearly like Duane Brown & believe he's got several years left in him. They got their LG. & frankly I think the kid has been playing pretty well this season. They drafted a center, they brought in a LG.

Things don't work & I would understand if we're criticizing the Texans for making moves that don't work, but to say that they're late to the party in 2017... you're pretty much saying they did not address the issue at all in 2014 or 2015, when clearly they did.

People want to complain about depth issues, but.... Greg Mancz is playing well, imo... he is the back up. Aboushi was graded high this preseason by PFF... he's the back up. Clark, I think he filled in well for a back up & should be challenging for our RT spot. Then there's Kendall Lamm(sp), no probably not a starter on any roster, but he's getting a lot of snaps & looks good.

We may not be winning any OL awards anytime soon, but as long as we're in the top half (third) of the league in rushing & protecting our QB... c'mon guys. Give it a break.
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How many rushing TD's do the Texans have this season and where do they rank in the NFL in rushing TD's? That will tell you a lot about the OL play. In addition to would you consider Os to have had plenty of time to throw?
 
thunderkyss said:
Again, offensively we pretty much ended up very similar to Dallas last season, with the same QB issue..... except our QB issues started week 1.

They gave up 36 sacks, we gave up 33.

They ran for 118 ypg, we ran for 110 ypg.

We both went out & got a new starting RB. We also drafted a Center & brought in a LG.

If nothing else, I think we need to stop using Dallas as an example.
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Stats are tools users use to try to prove points.

I'm more of the if the ball is inside the 5 and it's 1st down can you run it in or do you hve to try to trick defenses because your OL isn't all that?
 
steelbtexan said:
How many rushing TD's do the Texans have this season and where do they rank in the NFL in rushing TD's? That will tell you a lot about the OL play. In addition to would you consider Os to have had plenty of time to throw?
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I think Osweiler has had room to work. That he's got two left feet won't be fixed with a new OT.

Rushing TDs... where do they rank in red zone opportunities?

Again, my issue is saying the Texans haven't addressed the issue. They have, just not the way the arguers would have... well, I think we were all happy when we drafted Sua-filo & that blocking TE. We were happy when we signed KC's Guard. I was happy they signed someone to compete at Center, we were all happy when they drafted a Center.

They've played six games.
 
steelbtexan said:
Stats are tools users use to try to prove points.

I'm more of the if the ball is inside the 5 and it's 1st down can you run it in or do you hve to try to trick defenses because your OL isn't all that?
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I'm with you. How many Rushing TDs did the Dallas Cowboys' best OL in the league score in their 4-12 season?

Stay focused, I'm not arguing that we're good. I'm arguing that Dallas & all that first round talent didn't do any better in 2015.

I'm sure we'd have two additional wins if we had Dak & Zeke
 
thunderkyss said:
I don't have a big issue with what you've said here. I think there is a strong possibility this may be true.



I think it's too early to say this... the weakest link... blah, blah... I have no problem drafting OL. Still before the 2016 draft I thought our biggest issues were safety, RB, & TE. I still don't like what I see at the safety position & our deep CB position has gotten awful thin. So I don't know what issues will need to be addressed when the season is over.

And... we're six weeks in. We have a top 5 rusher, a top 10 rushing attack. Only 11 teams have allowed less sacks than the Houston Texans.

Yeah, eyeballing it, Brock Osweiler is being pressured. But no more than any other QB in the league.

They clearly like Derek Newton. I don't know why, but they do. Soon as he's healthy, he'll be the starting RT. They clearly like Duane Brown & believe he's got several years left in him. They got their LG. & frankly I think the kid has been playing pretty well this season. They drafted a center, they brought in a LG.

Things don't work & I would understand if we're criticizing the Texans for making moves that don't work, but to say that they're late to the party in 2017... you're pretty much saying they did not address the issue at all in 2014 or 2015, when clearly they did.

People want to complain about depth issues, but.... Greg Mancz is playing well, imo... he is the back up. Aboushi was graded high this preseason by PFF... he's the back up. Clark, I think he filled in well for a back up & should be challenging for our RT spot. Then there's Kendall Lamm(sp), no probably not a starter on any roster, but he's getting a lot of snaps & looks good.

We may not be winning any OL awards anytime soon, but as long as we're in the top half (third) of the league in rushing & protecting our QB... c'mon guys. Give it a break.
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Excellent analysis.
 
powda said:
Maybe im caught up in 20-30 year tradition ,but i have a hard time calling a 220 lb guy a scat back.
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Lamar Miller's NFL Combine results say he's 5'11" weighs in at 212 and ran a 4.40 forty with 1.53 10 yd split. All says scatback to me.
 
Texian said:
Lamar Miller's NFL Combine results say he's 5'11" weighs in at 212 and ran a 4.40 forty with 1.53 10 yd split. All says scatback to me.
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He is a 15 touch back that should be used on screens, swings, draws, and OFF TACKLE/SWEEPS. He is not nor has he ever been a between the tackles workhorse. The Patriots utilize Blount and Lewis/White for a reason. It is one of the reasons I wanted to keep Hilliard on the roster, but Blue hasn't looked as bad this year. Lamar getting 30+ touches a game like he is Arian is laughable. This is where I feel B.OB fails. He knows the Patriots scouting/roster building principles somewhat yet he fails to put players in defined roles that they succeed in.
 
texan279 said:
I just read Joe Staley may be on the trading block...thoughts?
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Don't look for the Texans to swing a deal, it isn't really in Rick's nature and I see us giving Lamm backup duty and putting Clark at RT unless Brown gets reinjured. Not saying I agree with this line of thinking, but B.OB seems to like Lamm.
 
JWLCASPER said:
Don't look for the Texans to swing a deal, it isn't really in Rick's nature and I see us giving Lamm backup duty and putting Clark at RT unless Brown gets reinjured. Not saying I agree with this line of thinking, but B.OB seems to like Lamm.
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The other concern is his cap hit, McNair has already shot his wad for the next couple of years with GTD $ and contracts for Osweiler and Miller.
 
JWLCASPER said:
Don't look for the Texans to swing a deal, it isn't really in Rick's nature and I see us giving Lamm backup duty and putting Clark at RT unless Brown gets reinjured. Not saying I agree with this line of thinking, but B.OB seems to like Lamm.
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They have to do something. Right now only 3 T on the roster with Newton out. Brown, Clark and Lamm is it. Cheek on the PS.

No depth at Guard either...
 
I just read Joe Thomas and Joe Staley are on the trading block. Asking price for Thomas is a second round pick but he would have a $20 million cap hit over the next 2 seasons. Asking price for Staley would be a 1st round pick but his cap hit next year would be $7.7 mil next season.
 
Wait. We have an offensive line?

Yes, it's offensive.

Thanks.

No problem.

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What are the opinions on this? Crohn's disease is tough. That might keep folks away.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/h...l-team-should-make-before-the-nov-1-deadline/

A tip of the cap goes to CBSSports.com contributor and former NFL agent Joel Corry, who came up with this one:

The Texans lost longtime starting right tackle Derek Newton on Monday night against the Broncos. Newton tore the patellar tendons in both knees. Chris Clark is expected to replace him.

Henderson recently returned from a four-game suspension for violating the NFL's substance abuse policy and has been battling Crohn's disease. He has lost the starting job he has held for much of the last two seasons to Jordan Mills. Henderson is also behind Cyrus Kouandijo on the depth chart. The 2014 seventh-round pick should have more upside than Clark since he is six and half years younger. His rookie contract expires after the 2017 season.
 
JB said:
They have to do something. Right now only 3 T on the roster with Newton out. Brown, Clark and Lamm is it. Cheek on the PS.

No depth at Guard either...
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We resigned Jeff Adams who had a rough preseason this year however he has outplayed many of our starters in previous years. I am not a fan of paying big money for FA O-lineman. The line performance is all about chemistry and not making mistakes. IMO, we need to make it through this year and draft 2 low risk tackles (Guys who proved they can play mistake free consistent football, not the guys with great "potential" who just need coached up).
 
JMO, but I think XSF is one of those guys starting because of where he was drafted and/or the money he's being paid. If he sits on the bench it would be a black eye to the team/GM/coach for using a #33 draft pick on him, especially when decent-good QB's went #32 and #34. They're going to give XSF every chance possible to redeem himself in hopes that he can at least be serviceable. I don't look for him to be re-signed in the next couple years unless he gets much better soon.
 
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