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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

PapaL said:
A facemask penalty in the first quarter cost the team a game? LoL. That's a reach.
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Considering it helped to put our inept team in a bigger hole early, yeah it did. 14-0 is basically insurmountable as the team is right now.

Unless you also think Jacoby Jones' fumble in 2012 against the Ravens didn't kill the team because it happened in the first quarter and for some reason things that happen in the first quarter don't matter as much as what happens later in the game, then whatever.

But whatever, no use rehashing THAT old song.
 
TheMatrix31 said:
Considering it helped to put our inept team in a bigger hole early, yeah it did. 14-0 is basically insurmountable as the team is right now.

Unless you also think Jacoby Jones' fumble in 2012 against the Ravens didn't kill the team because it happened in the first quarter and for some reason things that happen in the first quarter don't matter as much as what happens later in the game, then whatever.

But whatever, no use rehashing THAT old song.
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Mentally weak.

I can see it.
 
Yeah, the team is absolutely mentally weak. That's exactly what I mean. Can't withstand dumb mistakes putting them in big holes early.
 
TheMatrix31 said:
Unless you also think Jacoby Jones' fumble in 2012 against the Ravens didn't kill the team because it happened in the first quarter and for some reason things that happen in the first quarter don't matter as much as what happens later in the game, then whatever.

But whatever, no use rehashing THAT old song.
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I didn't then and still don't now. if you have 3-1/2 qtrs to overcome a fumble and your TEAM can't do it; it's just sorry to blame that one play
ESPECIALLY when T.J. Yates threw THREE picks and NO TDs but nobody talks about that sorry performance.

Edit: You're right, no need to revisit that "discussion".
 
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ObsiWan said:
I didn't then and still don't now. if you have 3-1/2 qtrs to overcome a fumble and your TEAM can't do it; it's just sorry to blame that one play
ESPECIALLY when T.J. Yates threw THREE picks and NO TDs but nobody talks about that sorry performance.
Wonder why?
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Because he was a rookie & his coach shouldn't have abandoned a damn good running game being down 14 so early in the 1st qtr.
 
What's ClownCars physical status today?

I can't find any news about the hit to the knee that had him in trouble at the end of the game being an issue.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
What's ClownCars physical status today?

I can't find any news about the hit to the knee that had him in trouble at the end of the game being an issue.
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During the game, I posted my concern over that play. I held my breath when I saw Clowney fall down and hit hard on the front of his surgically-repaired knee.....then watched as a Colts player fell on top of the knee while he was down.........then watched him limp after he got up and at other times later in the game. I said a little prayer for him at that time, that his knee was not further injured. As much as some here feel that I am down on Clowney, I very much respect the great effort and hard work that he has put into coming back from a potentially devastating injury. He has played well in many respects and has remained relatively healthy in the first 6 weeks. This does not remove my concern re. his long-term outlook as I still believe that the odds of the microfracture knee holding up while he tries to avoid compensatory injuries will be a week-to-week challenge for the remainder of his career. But for now, count me in as one that is pulling hard for a person/player that has "proven" himself more than just on the field.
 
I've got to agree, JDC has worked really hard to keep coming back form the physical setbacks he's had.

Glad that people are giving him props for the impact he is having on our defense (the national media more than our fans to be fair)
 
thetexanator said:
imagine if clowney had some, any technique. hes just streghnt and speed. reminds me of fat boy warren sapp
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I see flashes of it. There might be more to Clowney if he can stay healthy and continue to be coached up. He's ridiculously strong with great length, and every once in a while you'll see him knock the lineman's hands down and progress into a move. He's spent the past 2 seasons worried about his legs, and is just now getting better with his hands. He'll never bend like Ware coming around the corner, but add a few more rips and swim moves to his abilities and Clowney might actually turn out to be a VERY good player.
 
Scooter said:
I see flashes of it. There might be more to Clowney if he can stay healthy and continue to be coached up. He's ridiculously strong with great length, and every once in a while you'll see him knock the lineman's hands down and progress into a move. He's spent the past 2 seasons worried about his legs, and is just now getting better with his hands. He'll never bend like Ware coming around the corner, but add a few more rips and swim moves to his abilities and Clowney might actually turn out to be a VERY good player.
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The guy already leads the NFL in Tackles behind the los. He's an insane run stopper. I think he is already a very good player
 
As I stated before, he's a 3-4 de. His strength and striking ability makes him ideal. He's a good football player. He will never be a good pass rusher because of his stiffness. Thats ok though.
 
leebigeztx said:
As I stated before, he's a 3-4 de. His strength and striking ability makes him ideal. He's a good football player. He will never be a good pass rusher because of his stiffness. Thats ok though.
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Yes his ideal or natural position is as a DE, but in the 4-3 not in the 3-4.
 
IDEXAN said:
Yes his ideal or natural position is as a DE, but in the 4-3 not in the 3-4.
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I think we've moved way beyond 4-3 & 3-4.

we've had Jd outside, hand on the ground rushing like a 4-3 end. We've had him play a 3-4 5 tech. We've had him at UT. We've had him at ILB, OLB... & over the last six weeks he's made an impact play from each position... right side, left side... don't matter.

Jd Clowney won't be pigeon holed.
 
As much as everyone wanted to make JD a 4-3 defensive end (myself included) he is running an Elephant role in the 3-4 package or Leo in the newer 4-3 models of Seattle and Atlanta. This position is an utility position that lines up in multiple techniques along the front 7 to wreak pass rushing havoc as well as reroute TE's and disrupt passing lanes which we have seen JD do. Willie Mcginest is the epitome of this position an honestly if JD becomes that level for our defense then we will not only survive Watt's leave, we will be sitting up a very scary defense next year. Some other notable players of this hybrid role is Julius Peppers with Green Bay 3-4, Jason Taylor with Miami 4-3, and Charles Haley in the 80s and 90s.
 
JWLCASPER said:
As much as everyone wanted to make JD a 4-3 defensive end (myself included) he is running an Elephant role in the 3-4 package or Leo in the newer 4-3 models of Seattle and Atlanta. This position is an utility position that lines up in multiple techniques along the front 7 to wreak pass rushing havoc as well as reroute TE's and disrupt passing lanes which we have seen JD do. Willie Mcginest is the epitome of this position an honestly if JD becomes that level for our defense then we will not only survive Watt's leave, we will be sitting up a very scary defense next year. Some other notable players of this hybrid role is Julius Peppers with Green Bay 3-4, Jason Taylor with Miami 4-3, and Charles Haley in the 80s and 90s.
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When I think of the "elephant," I think of a player that can be moved around and can successfully 1) pass rush from the inside, 2) pass rush from the outside and 3) play pass coverage. So far, I have only seen Clowney as the former.
 
thunderkyss said:
I think we've moved way beyond 4-3 & 3-4.

we've had Jd outside, hand on the ground rushing like a 4-3 end. We've had him play a 3-4 5 tech. We've had him at UT. We've had him at ILB, OLB... & over the last six weeks he's made an impact play from each position... right side, left side... don't matter.

Jd Clowney won't be pigeon holed.
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I realize Crennel as did/does Wade Phillips both run all kinds of variations of the 3-4 and 4-3 but I'm just saying JDs natural position is not as a 3-4 defensive end, that's a waste of a special talent who's a rush 4-3 DE. Prototype 3-4 DEs play DT in a 4-3 and that's not JD.
But sure more and more of the traditional defensive schemes are mutating into something else.
 
Teams have figured out to run at JD. He's great at chasing down the run away from him but he is overpowered at the point of attack. It's not his fault as he's playing out of position and outweighed by 40-50 lbs. Our run defense is in a lot of trouble if we can't get more beef in the middle and JD back to his true position. It would have been nice to have used our 4th round pick on a DE -- hell, we could even have used him as a punt returner. It doesn't take a very special talent to fair catch punts with no one within 15 yards.
 
IDEXAN said:
I realize Crennel as did/does Wade Phillips both run all kinds of variations of the 3-4 and 4-3 but I'm just saying JDs natural position is not as a 3-4 defensive end, that's a waste of a special talent who's a rush 4-3 DE. Prototype 3-4 DEs play DT in a 4-3 and that's not JD.
But sure more and more of the traditional defensive schemes are mutating into something else.
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What percentage of the time does he run 3-4 DE? I actually agree he is not a traditional 3-4 DE. But he only runs it a few plays a game and those the most part those aren't base set traditional 3-4 DE. He plays more as a 4-3 DE or 5-2 OLB/DE.
 
infantrycak said:
What percentage of the time does he run 3-4 DE? I actually agree he is not a traditional 3-4 DE. But he only runs it a few plays a game and those the most part those aren't base set traditional 3-4 DE. He plays more as a 4-3 DE or 5-2 OLB/DE.
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With Simon playing over 82% of the snaps and Mercilus over 91%, I dare to say that Clowney has been playing much more on the inside than you thought.
 
infantrycak said:
What percentage of the time does he run 3-4 DE? I actually agree he is not a traditional 3-4 DE. But he only runs it a few plays a game and those the most part those aren't base set traditional 3-4 DE. He plays more as a 4-3 DE or 5-2 OLB/DE.
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Not sure on percentage but I saw him line up inside of OT, B gap the majority of the game. Run plays away, he pursued tonight as usual and looked great. He did not hold up when the ball was run at him.
 
Add to this, Simon not containing several times and Cush not getting off of blocks as usual, and you've got a recipe for the type of run defense displayed tonight.
 
76Texan said:
With Simon playing over 82% of the snaps and Mercilus over 91%, I dare to say that Clowney has been playing much more on the inside than you thought.
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Which doesn't translate to traditional 3-4 DE. Have you noticed we have done all sorts of bizarre stuff this year like playing half a game with 0 DL and 5 LBs on the LOS?

A traditional 3-4 DE is a between the G-T 2 gap guy. That is not how Clowney is beimg used.
 
infantrycak said:
Which doesn't translate to traditional 3-4 DE. Have you noticed we have done all sorts of bizarre stuff this year like playing half a game with 0 DL and 5 LBs on the LOS?

A traditional 3-4 DE is a between the G-T 2 gap guy. That is not how Clowney is beimg used.
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I'm not sure how much "traditional" is left in the NFL to tell you the truth.

Maybe a big guy mostly at the nose and some guys more often as edge rushers.

But really, I can't say anything for sure.
 
76Texan said:
I'm not sure how much "traditional" is left in the NFL to tell you the truth.

Maybe a big guy mostly at the nose and some guys more often as edge rushers.

But really, I can't say anything for sure.
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Not to toot my own horn, but since I can't toot the Texans horn today... I said that last week.

we're seeing defenses adjust to today's offenses & "traditional" has been tossed out the window.
 
thunderkyss said:
Not to toot my own horn, but since I can't toot the Texans horn today... I said that last week.

we're seeing defenses adjust to today's offenses & "traditional" has been tossed out the window.
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Good on you.
But I think the game has always been evolving.
I had noted some changes when I did the study in Wade Phillips defense beginning with his early days. Then he came to learn Buddy Ryan's 46 defense.
How he moved Bruce Smith all over the place, to every position on the line, and even to ILB.
That means other guys had to change positions, too; at times.
I had also noted a Jets-Texans game, where Rex Ryan did a lot of wacky things. Some Pouha was lining up everywhere. He came in on a blitz from the MLB position to nail down one of our QB.
Rex could have anywhere from zero to five down linemen on a certain play.

I'm sure the Buddy defense has been studied and modified/adapted to many schemes of other teams throughout the years, as we know this league is a copy cat.
Other coaches are certain to come up with things on their own as well.
 
Very interesting...

I know, I know. Stupid list, means nothing. They got JD listed as a OLB, when we all know he's been playing 3-4 DE.

Source: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2673471-nfl1000-ranking-the-top-1000-players-at-midseason
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dream_team said:
Very interesting...

I know, I know. Stupid list, means nothing. They got JD listed as a OLB, when we all know he's been playing 3-4 DE.

Source: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2673471-nfl1000-ranking-the-top-1000-players-at-midseason
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I'd guess OLB was/is his official position. Regardless, the light seems to be getting brighter and brighter for him. Hasn't made big splashy plays but he has been solid for us in what we ask him to do. Look forward to seeing him grow more as a professional.
 
Last night was perhaps JDs best game here in Houston. No he got no sacks but he was dominant vs the run and against what's been rated an excellent Oline and made several tackles behind the los.
Clowney is clearly best playing as a hand in the dirt DE, not a standup LB. And he may never be the kind of pass rusher we had hoped for but he's a versatile NFL downlineman.
.
 
IDEXAN said:
Last night was perhaps JDs best game here in Houston. No he got no sacks but he was dominant vs the run and against what's been rated an excellent Oline and made several tackles behind the los.
Clowney is clearly best playing as a hand in the dirt DE, not a standup LB. And he may never be the kind of pass rusher we had hoped for but he's a versatile NFL downlineman.
.
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Very unfortunate outcome. If Texans win, I think one of the headlines would have been how Clowney outplayed Mack. The Simon injury hurt, because it forced JD & Whit to play every snap. Those guys were noticeably gassed in the 4th.
 
Redtexans said:
We gave up 30 yards rushing to a top 10 rushing offense...... Sounds like a good recipe to me. You need to find something else to complain about.
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You got me, I'm Mr. Complainer. The one who didn't join the chorus of complaints about the refs after the game and half of who's posts advocate for patience w/ Brock. Sorry for pointing out a few observations about our run defense on the week that we gave up 190 yards rushing to the 22nd ranked rushing offense. I'll do my best to be 100% positive from here on out. I'm also pretty sure John Simon didn't play this week. But I'm not going to complain that you brought it up -- just pointing something out germane to the subject at the time the subject is being discussed.
 
I just know that in a world where we get J.J. Watt back (Please, please, please, please, please....) and have a DC who can figure out how best to utilize him on the same field as Clowney and Mercilus we are in for a treat next season.

I sure hope that (finally) happens.

IF Watt returns and is even half of the player he was before his injury...
IF Clowney continues to play this way...
IF Mercilus continues to play this way...

THEN IF we can just hit on an ILB who can cover in the draft
 
Last night Clowney had his best game as a Texan. By far.

I'd still rather have Mack but games like that will comfort me about Clowney.
 
thunderkyss said:
Remember when Jj started coming into his own at the end of his rookie season? When he started taking over games?

Wouldn't it be sweet if Jd has reached that point?
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If JJ could come back at even 80% of what he's been, and Jd can stay healthy this defensive line will be scary good
 
JB said:
If JJ could come back at even 80% of what he's been, and Jd can stay healthy this defensive line will be scary good
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A lot of JJ's sacks/pressure come from pure determination -- he'll have nothing left in the tank but still dial it up somehow and bring it. I'm not saying that you're wrong, but it'll be something to watch to see if his body allows him to push himself to the exhaustion levels he did in the past which is what separated him from the pack.
 
Another strong game by JD even though they had him in a 2-point stance @ LB for much of the game.
 
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