Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

Hopkins Production. Scheme, Quarterback, or Contract.

JWLCASPER

JWLCASPER

Waterboy
I have been doing my normal Texans weekly questioning and this crossed my mind this morning for the first time all season. Hopkins has definitely been less productive this year, partly due to the emergence or Fuller V, partly due to Osweiler, partly due to Godsey and OB "gameplans." The Patriots used 2 high safety looks which obviously presented help for Hopkins each play. My question to the board is this, is Hopkins "lazy" route running, less aggression, and disinterest stemming directly from the contract dispute this offseason. I have enjoyed Hopkins as much as anyone and hope we retain him and for the most part he has been the utmost professional, but could that contract issue and him getting paid peanuts severely alter his effort, especially with less looks his way.

Money talks.
 
I personally don't agree with this premise and find it silly (no offense) as this will hurt Hopkins the most. Playing poorly affects not only his reputation but his contract negotiation as well. There are a few reasons for his performance this season, but money is NOT one of them.
 
So far, Hopkins only saw 33 targets; that's 8 per game.

Last year, he was targeted 192 times;
that's nearly 12 per game.

Big difference.
 
Marcus said:
I find that question highly offensive, and TBH, not worth the dignity of an answer.
Click to expand...

I didn't say it was the case nor do I believe he is dogging it. However it crossed my mind because the aggression just hasn't been there. It may simply be the lack of looks but his contract status definitely is on his mind. Not one of us works without thinking of compensation. Appreciate the non response response though.
 
JWLCASPER said:
I didn't say it was the case nor do I believe he is dogging it. However it crossed my mind because the aggression just hasn't been there. It may simply be the lack of looks but his contract status definitely is on his mind. Not one of us works without thinking of compensation. Appreciate the non response response though.
Click to expand...

your op came off as if he was thinking " I don't get paid much so I'm not gonna work much" and that premise is just ridiculous
 
IMO, and this has been commented on in other threads, Os' accuracy has been partly the problem. Also commented on, I see evidence that Fuller is developing into Os' go-to receiver. I think this may be addressed in game planning, but it seems that Hopkins should see better routes designed to get him open. It appears from my perspective that there is a lot of blame to go around with little on Hopkins.
 
I think it comes down to simple chemistry between Nuk and Brock. When you step back and think about it, Brock is still very early in his career as a starter. He's got to learn how to trust his receivers, learn their tendencies, and just get more time with them to develop the trust and confidence in each other. Brock is certainly trying to get Nuk the ball, almost trying too hard sometimes.

I'm still a little skeptical of this so-called "gameplan offense" that O'Brien talks about. Seems to me that it lacks identity and is trying to be too many things at once.
 
I guess I should have elaborated a bit more or used slightly different wording. I believe it's a culmination of all these things leading to a frustration of sorts. He kissed the ball after his one catch yesterday so obviously he is frustrated. It is a contract year, his targets have diminished, and he and his quarterback haven't been on the same page. Not the start to a contract year he would want.
 
Hopkins is a difference maker. NUK is one of the few WRs who can put a team on his back and literally win the game. This was evident in the Peach Bowl when he beat LSU. This has been evident the last two years. It should come as no surprise why Belichick and other DCs are now double teaming NUK. It should come as no surprise why teams are game planning to take NUK out of the equation and making the Texans beat them without their #1 offensive weapon. It should come as no surprise that opposing team's BEST CB is assigned to guard NUK. In addition it should come as no surprise that the BEST CB also is getting help from a safety guarding NUK. It should come as no surprise that because of Osweiler's propensity to stare down his WR and telegraph his passes that the opposing teams BEST DBs are having good success at intercepting Osweiler passes. It should come as no surprise that the Texans TEs had success yesterday because the Titan LBs were mostly inept in pass coverage.

The same thing happened to Julio Jones in his first three games this year. Yesterday Carolina decided to use single coverage on Jones and Jones responded with 300 yards receiving.
 
Last edited:
JWLCASPER said:
I guess I should have elaborated a bit more or used slightly different wording. I believe it's a culmination of all these things leading to a frustration of sorts. He kissed the ball after his one catch yesterday so obviously he is frustrated. It is a contract year, his targets have diminished, and he and his quarterback haven't been on the same page. Not the start to a contract year he would want.
Click to expand...

His contract should not have anything to do with this. He knows he will get paid. All of our franchise core players have been paid. Again, money is NOT the issue here.
 
Marcus said:
Your 'question' questioned his integrity. Nuf said.
Click to expand...

Man I was one of the first people on the Hopkins bandwagon when we drafted him, was really high on him after he abused LSU. I never want to believe a player "takes plays off" or "relaxes" but when you are getting schemed out of the offense by the defense AND offense in a contract year, you have to pause. I hope we lock him up, long term, Atlanta:Julio/ Cincinatti:AJ him and throw him the ball 18 times a game, but that's not what OB, Godsey, and most importantly Osweiler have been doing. That happening in a contract year plays on a man's psyche.
 
Double Barrel said:
I think it comes down to simple chemistry between Nuk and Brock. When you step back and think about it, Brock is still very early in his career as a starter. He's got to learn how to trust his receivers, learn their tendencies, and just get more time with them to develop the trust and confidence in each other. Brock is certainly trying to get Nuk the ball, almost trying too hard sometimes.

I'm still a little skeptical of this so-called "gameplan offense" that O'Brien talks about. Seems to me that it lacks identity and is trying to be too many things at once.
Click to expand...

My interpretation is that our gameplan offense is purposely supposed to not have an identity. You can gameplan against an identity. You can have mismatches with an identity. The point of our offense is supposed to be that it is free of a set identity and therefore able to adjust to whatever type of defense we run into. That said, I have yet to see this actually succeed with tangible results.
 
JWLCASPER said:
I guess I should have elaborated a bit more or used slightly different wording. I believe it's a culmination of all these things leading to a frustration of sorts. He kissed the ball after his one catch yesterday so obviously he is frustrated. It is a contract year, his targets have diminished, and he and his quarterback haven't been on the same page. Not the start to a contract year he would want.
Click to expand...

This doesn't address your question tho

JWLCASPER said:
My question to the board is this, is Hopkins "lazy" route running, less aggression, and disinterest stemming directly from the contract dispute this offseason.
Money talks.
Click to expand...

If you're gonna change the "question", add a poll or start a new thread because your first question was insulting and degrading to Nuk which belies your later statements

:kitten:
 
chenjy9 said:
My interpretation is that our gameplan offense is purposely supposed to not have an identity. You can gameplan against an identity. You can have mismatches with an identity. The point of our offense is supposed to be that it is free of a set identity and therefore able to adjust to whatever type of defense we run into. That said, I have yet to see this actually succeed with tangible results.
Click to expand...

I get that, and appreciate O'Brien's metaphor about tools in a toolbox (i.e. they learn different "tools", basically packages, sets, plays, in the off-season and then pull out different tools from the toolbox every week based upon the opposition).

However, this principle is based on what he learned in NE, and while they do the "gameplan offense", as well, they also have some things that they always do well. And this is what we've get to see with the Texans. What do they do consistently well?

Maybe it's just the case of a young, inexperienced QB in a very complicated offense. Does he have all the tools he needs? Or is this something they have to develop over time, through the season and beyond?
 
JB said:
This doesn't address your question tho



If you're gonna change the "question", add a poll or start a new thread because your first question was insulting and degrading to Nuk which belies your later statements

:kitten:
Click to expand...

The question stands. OB told Andre he would only get 40 catches in his multiple offense. OB is a Belichick disciple meaning he doesn't believe in massive contracts or necessarily massive production from one player. The sum is greater than the parts. A combination of OB's vision, Osweiler's preference, and Hopkin's self perceived value. These things aren't matching up. Not the sole reason, but it definitely is on Hopkins mind. I've worked directly with a few NFL players on marketing projects and I promise you they think about their paycheck. We all do when it comes to our work.
 
Double Barrel said:
I get that, and appreciate O'Brien's metaphor about tools in a toolbox (i.e. they learn different "tools", basically packages, sets, plays, in the off-season and then pull out different tools from the toolbox every week based upon the opposition).

However, this principle is based on what he learned in NE, and while they do the "gameplan offense", as well, they also have some things that they always do well. And this is what we've get to see with the Texans. What do they do consistently well?

Maybe it's just the case of a young, inexperienced QB in a very complicated offense. Does he have all the tools he needs? Or is this something they have to develop over time, through the season and beyond?
Click to expand...

I chalk it up to crappy "tools" at first and now "crappy/broken OL tools" and "very new, not broken-in tools" everywhere else on offense now. :) Then again, some accuse me of being an eternal optimist, so there is that.
 
JWLCASPER said:
The question stands. OB told Andre he would only get 40 catches in his multiple offense. OB is a Belichick disciple meaning he doesn't believe in massive contracts or necessarily massive production from one player. The sum is greater than the parts. A combination of OB's vision, Osweiler's preference, and Hopkin's self perceived value. These things aren't matching up. Not the sole reason, but it definitely is on Hopkins mind. I've worked directly with a few NFL players on marketing projects and I promise you they think about their paycheck. We all do when it comes to our work.
Click to expand...

This post is all over the place and addresses nothing... What does Andre ending his career have to do with Hopkins production year to date?
 
JB said:
This post is all over the place and addresses nothing... What does Andre ending his career have to do with Hopkins production year to date?
Click to expand...

That OB has a vision for the team and a receiver with 160 targets isn't part of it. That along with Hopkins being in a contract year and a QB who favors a rookie WR, adds up to Hopkins not being in his prime position for his maximum deal. I brought Andre up because OB has made it clear he wants a multiple, varied offense.
 
JWLCASPER said:
That OB has a vision for the team and a receiver with 160 targets isn't part of it. That along with Hopkins being in a contract year and a QB who favors a rookie WR, adds up to Hopkins not being in his prime position for his maximum deal. I brought Andre up because OB has made it clear he wants a multiple, varied offense.
Click to expand...

If I could figure out just which stance you are taking, I might agree... but you're more inconsistent than the Texans offense right now.
 
JB said:
If I could figure out just which stance you are taking, I might agree... but you're more inconsistent than the Texans offense right now.
Click to expand...

Haha JB I appreciate the discussion. My stance is this. Hopkins hasn't put forth 100% on every play and every route because he isn't the focal point of the offense. This is due to OB and Osweiler. This effort also could be directly related to Hopkins thinking about his contract and his dip in targets/production and how that could affect his upcoming contract leading to frustration. I hope this clarifies.
 
JWLCASPER said:
Haha JB I appreciate the discussion. My stance is this. Hopkins hasn't put forth 100% on every play and every route because he isn't the focal point of the offense. This is due to OB and Osweiler. This effort also could be directly related to Hopkins thinking about his contract and his dip in targets/production and how that could affect his upcoming contract leading to frustration. I hope this clarifies.
Click to expand...

I hear what you're saying, but I don't think there's anything abnormal about Hopkins' effort. He's out there blocking for whoever gets the ball.
 
I think his route running can be described at times as just a bit lazy. Rounding off corners and drifting at the top or out of routes at times. Don't think it's a bad attitude effort thing though as much as trading full driven concentration for relying so much on his physical ability to control his body in the air and use his terrific hand strength and range to bring the ball in from seemingly wherever. Now with a guy spraying the ball as much as Os can every little degree of angle and inches count, and being more broken down coming into and out of breaks appears more critical.
 
QB play and the Oline making it difficult for the QB to have enough time to get the ball out to Hopkins. They're trying to feed him, but those factors aren't playing well enough for Hopkins to have the stats people expect him to have the last two games.
 
JWLCASPER said:
I guess I should have elaborated a bit more or used slightly different wording. I believe it's a culmination of all these things leading to a frustration of sorts. He kissed the ball after his one catch yesterday so obviously he is frustrated. It is a contract year, his targets have diminished, and he and his quarterback haven't been on the same page. Not the start to a contract year he would want.
Click to expand...

Dumb thread is dumb..

First of all.. this is the second post where you mentioned that this is his "contract year".. this isn't even his contract year.. he isn't even in a contract year.. the Texans have a 5th year team option on him, they don't even have to negotiate with him next offseason if they don't want to. Also when he held out in camp he only did for like what..3 freaking hours so obviously he was told something and his concerns were resolved so money has nothing to do with anything.

Second he hasn't been doing anything lazy on the field..the chronicle did a whole piece on the extra work he does in camp/practice ..and this was even after his holdout. He hasn't been loafing at all..he's not that player.

Third he isn't worried about not being the focal point of the offense either, he was the first player to come out and tweet after the Fuller selection and praised it.. he isn't worried about getting his. It's just been 4 freaking games and don't know if you've noticed or not, but we have played against pretty good defenses.. the Titans defense is actually pretty good too. There's 12 games left and a lot of football left to be played, Hopkins will get his. However gone are the days of him being the most targeted WR in the league. We have a 1-2 punch now and we haven't had that since Hopkins was first drafted..and it still wasn't like this, because the other guy isn't on the downside. This is how it's going to go..Fuller has put enough on tape now where teams will now have to game plan for him and that will open things up for Hopkins..they'll feed off eachother and Brock is still learning the offense..be patient.
 
JWLCASPER said:
I have been doing my normal Texans weekly questioning and this crossed my mind this morning for the first time all season. Hopkins has definitely been less productive this year, partly due to the emergence or Fuller V, partly due to Osweiler, partly due to Godsey and OB "gameplans." The Patriots used 2 high safety looks which obviously presented help for Hopkins each play. My question to the board is this, is Hopkins "lazy" route running, less aggression, and disinterest stemming directly from the contract dispute this offseason. I have enjoyed Hopkins as much as anyone and hope we retain him and for the most part he has been the utmost professional, but could that contract issue and him getting paid peanuts severely alter his effort, especially with less looks his way.

Money talks.
Click to expand...
You start with an opinion stated as a fact that I do not accept.
 
Carr Bombed said:
He sounds like a poster who has Hopkins on his fantasy team and he's just not pleased with the numbers he's putting up.
Click to expand...
I am always open to discussion but it reminded me of "when did you stop beating your wife?" As critical as I have been and will continue to be, I cannot point to any Texan as being lazy.
 
badboy said:
I am always open to discussion but it reminded me of "when did you stop beating your wife?" As critical as I have been and will continue to be, I cannot point to any Texan as being lazy.
Click to expand...

Especially one who's extra work outside of scheduled drills/practice has already been reported on and even if this was a contract year (which it's not, don't know where he got that from).. players don't loaf or half ass it in contract years.. they get motivated to earn a big payday so that assumption was stupid as hell. Some players half ass and become fat and happy after the payday (Haynesworth), but even those lazy turds get after it when trying to earn a new deal.
 
Last edited:
The throws yesterday seemed forced every time we threw to Hopkins. The two picks should have never been thrown his way.
 
texanhead08 said:
The throws yesterday seemed forced every time we threw to Hopkins. The two picks should have never been thrown his way.
Click to expand...

I disagree. All three, including the one he prevented, should have been thrown better. the first should have been over his outside shoulder. the second & third should have been higher. The two over the middle probably were underthrown on purpose. if they were thrown too high, a safety might have come down with it. The first one though, I don't know any reason Osweiler would have thrown what looked like a back shoulder throw when Hopkins clearly got behind Cox & there was plenty of room to the sideline.

But I wasn't in any of the meetings so I don't know what Osweiler's read was.
 
Carr Bombed said:
He sounds like a poster who has Hopkins on his fantasy team and he's just not pleased with the numbers he's putting up.
Click to expand...

That was my thinking, because I don't see Hopkins having a bad year. I just see mainly the offensive counter parts making it more difficult for Hop to make the big plays as consistently as people expect. Plus, we have another guy doing more of the leg work this year than what we had last season. Hop looks fine to me.
 
Texecutioner said:
That was my thinking, because I don't see Hopkins having a bad year. I just see mainly the offensive counter parts making it more difficult for Hop to make the big plays as consistently as people expect. Plus, we have another guy doing more of the leg work this year than what we had last season. Hop looks fine to me.
Click to expand...

He was one of the only players that showed up against the pats..(didn't put up great numbers, but there was a lot of tough catches and the effort was there) people who think he's doging it don't know what they're talking about. He's playing with a new QB and yes while he has played with new QBs in the past and produced..those QBs had experience in the offense previously and/or multiple years experience starting in this league.. this is a offense that's returning just 4 starters and one of those starters hasn't even played yet, it's a process and it's going to take time.. people need to be patient, but I did see signs yesterday in both the running game and passing game, the consistency isn't there yet though.. just need to be more consistent. Hopkins is not a lazy player though.
 
Last edited:
I'm 100% certain that in OB's scheme, he wants the open man targeted. If that's mostly to one player, I doubt OB will be upset.

Having said that, DHop has looked kinda lazy to me on drops/INT's this year that were catches the past two years. Maybe "not as aggressive" is better than lazy.
 
DocBar said:
I'm 100% certain that in OB's scheme, he wants the open man targeted. If that's mostly to one player, I doubt OB will be upset.

Having said that, DHop has looked kinda lazy to me on drops/INT's this year that were catches the past two years. Maybe "not as aggressive" is better than lazy.
Click to expand...

That's all I am saying. That's why I used the term less aggression. He's not completely dogging it ALA pissed off Randy Moss but certain plays I have watched Hopkins make for the past couple of years seems to be left on the field because he isn't going after it.

As far as me stating contract year I do understand we can pick up his fifth year option however it is widely known that the Texans and Hopkins will negotiate following the end of the season. If the Texans pick up that option with no intention of negotiating this offseason Hopkins will surely see what else is out there when the opportunity presents itself.
 
76Texan said:
So far, Hopkins only saw 33 targets; that's 8 per game.

Last year, he was targeted 192 times;
that's nearly 12 per game.

Big difference.
Click to expand...
Yeah and Fuller has been targeted 34 times so far this year, just one more. It's not like he's playing second fiddle to Fuller. So what's your point?

Just to support what others have pointed out, last year it was Hopkins and a bunch of JAGs. In fact Hopkins had more targets than the next two guys (N.Washington-95, C.Shorts-74) combined. Both of those guys have been replaced. By rookies.

This year we actually have a legit #2 option.
I would expect this offense to redistribute the targets.
...or this draft would have been a waste.
 
ObsiWan said:
Just to support what others have pointed out, last year it was Hopkins and a bunch of JAGs. In fact Hopkins had more targets than the next two guys (N.Washington-95, C.Shorts-74) combined. Both of those guys have been replaced. By rookies.
Click to expand...

Neither made an NFL roster this year either.
 
ObsiWan said:
Yeah and Fuller has been targeted 34 times so far this year, just one more. It's not like he's playing second fiddle to Fuller. So what's your point?

Just to support what others have pointed out, last year it was Hopkins and a bunch of JAGs. In fact Hopkins had more targets than the next two guys (N.Washington-95, C.Shorts-74) combined. Both of those guys have been replaced. By rookies.

This year we actually have a legit #2 option.
I would expect this offense to redistribute the targets.
...or this draft would have been a waste.
Click to expand...
Just to say that fewer targets = fewer catches; that's all.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top