ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Yeah, cuz remember back after they'd been in the league for a few years and we all agreed on exactly how good Matt Schaub, and Mario Williams were? Yeah, me neither.
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Brock Osweiler agrees to 4 year 72 million
- Thread starter DBCooper
- Start date
- Status
I dunno. 50-50 right now. He really seems to fit what Kubiak likes to do. Like I said, it's going to be interesting to see how it unfolds. I said they might struggle to go 8-8, not that they would.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I dunno. 50-50 right now. He really seems to fit what Kubiak likes to do. Like I said, it's going to be interesting to see how it unfolds. I said they might struggle to go 8-8, not that they would.
Wasn't talking about team record. Meant Sanchez' play (if he ends up starter). Given his record with Griese, Plummer, Schaub, Flacco, I'd say he's got better than 50/50.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
Wade Phillips' track record suggests the Broncos defense will be nowhere near ranked #1 in 2016, and beyond... His defenses go south in a hurry after that first year he's the defensive coordinator. With all the talent the Broncos have lost on the defensive side of the ball this off-season, I'm not doubting an epic collapse for their defense this season. Von Miller better stay healthy or else they could stumble many rankings in 2016.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
You're basically implying an interesting question. Can he regain his early-career success, when a solid defense and running game, carried him to two straight AFC Championship games with Rex Ryan and the New York Jets?
The answer is a simple no. Because the Broncos' overall talent level has gone way down. Although they did match C.J. Anderson's offer sheet yesterday.
I'd have maybe said yes if they still had the same team that just won Super Bowl 50 (minus the quarterbacks obviously). They lost too much talent on defense.
Those odds would have to be low for me. 15 % to 20 % at best. They didn't even keep Owen Daniels at tight end did they? He had glue-like hands for them in the past playoffs. A good security blanket to throw to over the middle of the field.
I dunno. 50-50 right now. He really seems to fit what Kubiak likes to do. Like I said, it's going to be interesting to see how it unfolds. I said they might struggle to go 8-8, not that they would.
Good point. I think the fact that Os has essentially a two year deal, whether he gets a new contract with the Texans, or not, will tell the tale on half of the argument.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
Broncos will go 5-11 or 6-10 (at best) in 2016 if Mark Sanchez is their starter for all 16 games, IMO. Gary Kubiak may be a good play caller but nobody can call plays that succeed for a mediocre quarterback with less talent around him than what they had last year. 8-8 is being way too nice. They will win 5 or 6 games at best.
I would argue that Mark Sanchez is the worst QB in the NFL right now not named Brian Hoyer. He's that horrible!!!!!! He's a backup, period. A starter he no longer is.
Ironically, Mark Sanchez parties just like Johnny Manziel.
He just doesn't have the cameras or media attention on him.
I'm shocked he's still in the league to be honest...
Kudos to Mark Sanchez for playing this long.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Nope. Not what I was talking about at all. Didn't ask how the Broncos were going to do.
Try typing a little less and reading more closely.
Some might get the feeling that Elway has been panicking since Osweiler jilted him & Kaepernick decided Cleveland might be a better fit.
I don't believe his team is being decimated, but there are enough changes that to bring a lot of distractions to the organization. If it weren't hard enough to repeat as Super Bowl Champs, I can't imagine anyone not named Von Miller not looking over his shoulder & I imagine every 2017 FA will be thinking about their options, their value, & their future.
Wade's track record says the D should still be formidable in year two. That's what makes football my favorite sport, though. It's so rare and difficult for one single player to make a huge impact on the game. It's the ultimate team sport.
I think Kaepernick is going to be kicking himself in the nether regions before the season is over.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
I read everything you say. What are you trying to imply? You're talking about his overall play aren't you? What better way to judge his performance than how successful the team ultimately is? Isn't that how we typically judge all quarterbacks? If it's all about putting up nice stats and losing games then Blake Bortles is one of the best QBs in the game right now.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
He could still end up being traded to Denver.
Mark Sanchez isn't their ideal plan to start.
After signing Okung they're short on cash again. Kaep can stay in San Francisco & collect $12M
DX-TEX
#TomSavageDontCare
yep they had pretty much the same space as us before signing Okung at 5 million guaranteed this season. They are hovering around 5 right now though they can save 8.9 million by releasing Clady
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
This song came to my mind when reading your posts. We just need to enjoy the Houston Texans winning some Super Bowls in the near future. We don't have time to be worrying about all of that other "hypothetical stuff!"
Brandon420tx
Flounder
So, I put together a list of starting and potential starting QBs (not including yet to be drafted rookies) and split them into 5 levels which were "Clearly better than Osweiler, Better than Osweiler, Unproven with potential, Meh, and Hoyerable" I'm going to post the list below.
Note: Not in order of overall ranking
Note: Not in order of overall ranking
Clearly better than Osweiler: Osweiler would need to have a phenominal season to join these guys
Aaron Rodgers
Cam Newton
Tom Brady
Russell Wilson
Drew Brees (Although he's starting to taper off)
Better than Osweiler: but he could join these ranks this season with good play
Matt Ryan
Big Ben
Phillip Rivers (I view him as inconsistent)
Carson Palmer
Andrew Luck (Thank god they refuse to give him pass protection)
Eli Manning
Matt Stafford
Kirk Cousins
Joe Flacco
Jay Cutler
Alex Smith (This is what a game manager is, instead of the term used to define subpar QBs)
Unproven with potential: This is where I currently view Osweiler
Brock Osweiler
Tyrod Taylor
Ryan Tannehill (I blame the coaching staff for his current struggles)
Teddy Bridgewater (until they let him take the team on his back and not just hand off to AP every play he'll be stuck here)
Case Keenum (if he starts the season for the Rams, plays through the whole season, and does well, he jumps straight to the above section)
Derek Carr
Jameis Winstons (likely to move down to the below section, but giving him another season or two)
Mike Glennon
EJ Manual (needs a new team imo)
Meh: Guys who are consistently starters, but I wouldn't get warm fuzzies about them if they were my team's QB. Not necessarily better or worse than above group but are more known quantities at this point. Os can be put here if he consistently plays just average or has a few hoyerable games.
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Jay Cutler
Andy Dalton
Nick Foles
Hoyerable: Guys I would currently hate to have as my top option at QB. Os would have to be abysmal to reach this level
Brian Hoyer
Tony Romo (Choke artist)
Sam Bradford (Gets injured every time the wind blows)
Colin Kaepernick
Brian Hoyer
Mark "Butt Fumble" Sanchez (although I'd still say he's somewhat salvageable)
Josh McCown
Blaine Gabbert
RGIII (Broken by Shanahan, brings his own drama baggage)
Blake Bortles (He should be in the Unproven with potential section, but he gets the division rivals biased treatment so he's stuck here instead)
Marcus Mariota (See notes on Blake Bortles)
Brian Hoyer
... ... ... Brian Hoyer
Aaron Rodgers
Cam Newton
Tom Brady
Russell Wilson
Drew Brees (Although he's starting to taper off)
Better than Osweiler: but he could join these ranks this season with good play
Matt Ryan
Big Ben
Phillip Rivers (I view him as inconsistent)
Carson Palmer
Andrew Luck (Thank god they refuse to give him pass protection)
Eli Manning
Matt Stafford
Kirk Cousins
Joe Flacco
Jay Cutler
Alex Smith (This is what a game manager is, instead of the term used to define subpar QBs)
Unproven with potential: This is where I currently view Osweiler
Brock Osweiler
Tyrod Taylor
Ryan Tannehill (I blame the coaching staff for his current struggles)
Teddy Bridgewater (until they let him take the team on his back and not just hand off to AP every play he'll be stuck here)
Case Keenum (if he starts the season for the Rams, plays through the whole season, and does well, he jumps straight to the above section)
Derek Carr
Jameis Winstons (likely to move down to the below section, but giving him another season or two)
Mike Glennon
EJ Manual (needs a new team imo)
Meh: Guys who are consistently starters, but I wouldn't get warm fuzzies about them if they were my team's QB. Not necessarily better or worse than above group but are more known quantities at this point. Os can be put here if he consistently plays just average or has a few hoyerable games.
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Jay Cutler
Andy Dalton
Nick Foles
Hoyerable: Guys I would currently hate to have as my top option at QB. Os would have to be abysmal to reach this level
Brian Hoyer
Tony Romo (Choke artist)
Sam Bradford (Gets injured every time the wind blows)
Colin Kaepernick
Brian Hoyer
Mark "Butt Fumble" Sanchez (although I'd still say he's somewhat salvageable)
Josh McCown
Blaine Gabbert
RGIII (Broken by Shanahan, brings his own drama baggage)
Blake Bortles (He should be in the Unproven with potential section, but he gets the division rivals biased treatment so he's stuck here instead)
Marcus Mariota (See notes on Blake Bortles)
Brian Hoyer
... ... ... Brian Hoyer
Fred
Veteran
Since an expansion franchise had a losing record that proves the owner is no good.
How about the last 5 years which you claim proves your point? Texans .525 winning percentage, 4 winning seasons, 3 division championships; the franchise that has the best QB in history (I still don't understand why you haven't changed your name to Jagian) .237, 0, and 0.
I still say McNair is a good owner, I have never said he is the best owner and I don't remember anyone else saying that. But since you claim "most" people here said that it should be easy for you to quote 10 or 15 posts claiming that.
I also don't see anyone clearing a spot in Canton for a bust of Os, just you doing that for Bortles, Goff, and Wentz. (How many QBs are named All-Pro each year?) Most people are thinking Os will be an improvement over the Texans QB play of the last 3 years, not a Hall of Famer.
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sandman
Brexit Advisor
Some people won't be happy until McNair fires Rick Smith then sells the team. Preferably in the same afternoon.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Feel Better?
I'm more of a morning guy
sandman
Brexit Advisor
OK, I laughed at that one.
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
Mangler
Toro de España
Just picked up a Brock Osweiler jersey at the Go Texan Store before I head to Denver tonight, as I know the Broncos' fans are salty about him signing with the Texans, so I figure that'll add salt to the wound, lol. Now, before anyone starts calling me immature/troublemaker, I assure you that I'm not doing it to go around starting trouble. I'm just going to take a picture in front of their stadium while wearing my jersey in case Brock ends up being our guy! Would be nice to stick it to the "Defending Super Bowl Champs!"
Now, I also wanted to share something that the cashier and the Go Texans Store staff told me. As I was looking for my size, one of the associates approached me and said, "It sure is nice to finally be able to buy a Texans' QB jersey, ain't it?" So I said, "Yes, I just hope he turns out to be what we expect/hope for!" As we talked about Brock, two other guys that work there including what seemed like a security guard jumped in and said that Brock and his family have been in the building everyday, and Brock has been working out here everyday since signing to the Texans. They also talked about how cool he is with everyone and how excited he is to prove himself. They said how he thinks this was fate and he is ready to break out and work his way up to be mentioned in the same sentence as all the greats. Sure made me feel a lot better about spending $151.54 on a Texans QB jersey.
Anyway, the weather is awesome. Be safe out there mother yuckers. That's all I got. Thanks for reading!
Now, I also wanted to share something that the cashier and the Go Texans Store staff told me. As I was looking for my size, one of the associates approached me and said, "It sure is nice to finally be able to buy a Texans' QB jersey, ain't it?" So I said, "Yes, I just hope he turns out to be what we expect/hope for!" As we talked about Brock, two other guys that work there including what seemed like a security guard jumped in and said that Brock and his family have been in the building everyday, and Brock has been working out here everyday since signing to the Texans. They also talked about how cool he is with everyone and how excited he is to prove himself. They said how he thinks this was fate and he is ready to break out and work his way up to be mentioned in the same sentence as all the greats. Sure made me feel a lot better about spending $151.54 on a Texans QB jersey.
Anyway, the weather is awesome. Be safe out there mother yuckers. That's all I got. Thanks for reading!
Os comes from good stock, by all accounts. I'm sure he will be just as respectful to the Janitor as he is the CEO. That's just being raised right.
I'd be shocked to hear that Os was anywhere but Reliant stadium every day. I'm sure there are all kinds of CBA violations going on between Os and the coaching staff. I'm sure because that's what I'd be doing if I were Os.
I'd be shocked to hear that Os was anywhere but Reliant stadium every day. I'm sure there are all kinds of CBA violations going on between Os and the coaching staff. I'm sure because that's what I'd be doing if I were Os.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I'd say 75% he ends up having his best season as a pro. The other percent I'd chalk up to potential injury and because Butt Fumble.
I can't imagine the coaches would take the risk. It would make more sense for him to be going over everything with Hoyer or Savage. If I were Savage I wouldn't be to eager about it, but I'd probably do it anyway. If I were Hoyer, I'd be all about ot, trying to secure a spot on the roster.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
His best season so far is 2011 where he had a 78.2 QBR. I don't know what the odds are that he tops that, but the bar isn't set very high.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
That's rating not QBR. His best rating was 88.4 in 2014 and 59.4 QBR same season. Slightly higher bar.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Passer rating then, whatever. And '14 was just 9 games. You can extrapolate that to 16 but that doesn't mean much. He had a 9 game stretch in that '11 season with a passer rating of 86 and ended at 78.2 for the season. So no guarantees he finishes at 88.4 in 14 with a full season.
But either way, the bar still isn't very high.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Chicken and egg. Yes the Sanchez bar is low. But continuing the trend of squeaking the best out is kind of high. Just going to be interesting to watch. Kubiak has 3rd, 4th, 5th choice and OB has 1st choice over 3 years. Who eeks out better?
Won't pretend to know. But interesting.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Meh, I don't know. I posted in another thread about not having that wasted season feeling for the Texans this year. I'd probably feel that way right now if I were a Denver fan.
But you're right, we won't know until the games are played.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Don't get me wrong on an egg level - Oz* v. Sanchez I feel much better about Oz.
* I know it is spelled Os but my understanding is it is pronounced Oz and that looks/sounds better to me.
Mangler
Toro de España
As of right now, Osweiler has had a better career than Case Keenum will probably EVER have. Not sure how anyone would even put them in the same category. Case Keenum is not even on Hoyer's level, which should say all there is to say about him.
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michaelm
vox nihili
You're being completely disingenuous and you know it.
Osweiler's contract will not (actually cannot) ever be a $72 million flop.
If it's a flop, it's a two year flop, limited to only the guaranteed money.
Texian
Hall of Fame
disingenious, NO! Simple Math, YES! Assume OZ flops, that's 2 wasted years minimum, you're back at square one, it will take a minimum of 2 years to put a decent replacement on the field. Contrary to popular belief there is no difference in drafting a flop and signing a flop, both will set you back 4 to 5 years.
Texian
Hall of Fame
disingenious, NO! Simple Math, YES! Assume OZ flops, that's 2 wasted years minimum, you're back at square one, it will take a minimum of 2 years to put a decent replacement on the field. Contrary to popular belief there is no difference in drafting a flop and signing a flop, both will set you back 4 to 5 years.
Brandon420tx
Flounder
I tend to leave people in that middle section until they reach about 2.5-3 years of accumulated play time for me to move them up to competent or down to "Meh". Exceptions are made if they play consistently well or poorly during those 3 years, in which case they are moved early. Although Keenums been in the league a long time he's never really been looked at as a starter, even now the Rams might go another direction. That said this is Keenum's last year in this category. Brock would get 2 more seasons (although I'd probably decide by the beginning of his next season)
Brandon420tx
Flounder
I'll agree
Caveat: Both options are risky, but by signing Os we at least 100% guarantee we can take that risk now. If we tried to rely on the draft the chance of being able to make that risky move to get one of those potential elite QBs is less that 100%. Would you agree?
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Now, assume you trade up, giving away all those draft picks, and you draft Wentz and HE flops. Like you said, same thing. Except instead of just having this one player flop, you're out a bunch of other players you could have had.
Now, let's step back and consider this. Let's say you sign Os, that doesn't preclude you from drafting someone developmental at that same position, much the way the Seahawks did with Flynn and Wilson. It's harder, but still do-able, to trade up to get "the guy" and still draft a possible replacement... like the Skins did with RGIII + Cousins.
At this point, all we know about the Texans' strategy is that they nabbed the best FA QB on the market. They didn't kill their cap to do it, either. And if I remember correctly, you were on here a year or two ago claiming that we were going to be cap-strapped and incapable of making any FA moves or paying any players for years and years, because our FO should be more like the Colts and Jags.
GoCoogs
Waterboy
I think the Texans should still take a QB in the 3rd round that they like. That way the can groom that player for two years in case Osweiler doesn't work out.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Beginning the experiment earlier with a lesser talent under the the guise of a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. The trade out, (3) high draft picks vs $37MM GTD/4 YR $72MM contract. A rookie draft pick would command $20MM over 4 years. That's a difference of $52MM. $52MM that could be used to sign two or three above average free agents. Now, let's step back and consider this, odds are Luck, Mariota and Bortles will out perform Osweiller, Wentz achieves Mayock prediction of Luck's ceiling or Goff performs at his prediction of Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady ceiling. The risk for the greater reward is in favor of patience and trading for Wentz or Goff.
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In the last few days I've totaled up, according to posts around here, that we'll need roughly 194,773,908,239,843 draft picks to cover all our holes.
We should apparently take a QB, RB, WR, TE, OT, C, DE, DT, LB, and S. Maybe a couple of each. Maybe a K. And cuz depth.
Did I miss anyone?
Yikes.
Super Bowl LI!
We should apparently take a QB, RB, WR, TE, OT, C, DE, DT, LB, and S. Maybe a couple of each. Maybe a K. And cuz depth.
Did I miss anyone?
Yikes.
Super Bowl LI!
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
And that's a problem because why?
Wolf
100% Texan
In the Texans case we would have to give up multiple high picks to move up potentially draft a flop. Well depending on if we hit on the draft picks.
Fun game this is.
I might be looking at a wider picture. I am thinking more of how oz and say, this years number 1,next years number 1 and this years number 2 (i know it is impossible to know what we will have to give up to move up to "x" draft slot) will do compared to one rookie qb . Time will tell. Just in wait and see mode on our drafting strategy.
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