He gets like this when the Texans don't pick his latest boy toy.
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Brock Osweiler agrees to 4 year 72 million
- Thread starter DBCooper
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He gets like this when the Texans don't pick his latest boy toy.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Don't you just love those McNair .423 winning percentage boy toys????
(royalty, see what I mean here by snarky belligerent comments)
yes Brock WAS a backup, Aaron WAS a backup, Roger WAS a backup, Joe WAS a backup, Tom WAS a backup. Carson and Wentz HAVEN"T BEEN backups yet. They haven't done squat yet. What's cheaper, $37 million or the guaranteed money of 3 first round picks at the least? And as mentioned above, how about the performance differential between 4 players at that level vs 1?
For someone still bemoaning the fact that we lost ONE 6th round compensatory pick, you sure are strangely eager to give away 3 1st round picks.
No one knows for sure how the players are going to turn out, but I'm willing to gamble that Brocks overall value over the next 2 years will be greater than that of either Goff or Wentz. After 2 years if I'm not happy I can lose Brock, Goff or Wentz would be safe for 4 years unless they pulled a JFF or got injured like a RG3. And then it would suck really bad
Texian
Hall of Fame
Note to DX, when wooing a player that you're trying to sign there is a strong tendency to blow smoke up his hiney and say things that are not necessarily true.
Need to update your shtick.....it's .433 as of the end of last season.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
And it continues to be stupid to deal in ancient history. Capers hung a .281 anchor to start the franchise. That has zero bearing on the current Texans.
Right. That really is a tired, sad little argument.
Capers - .281
Kubiak - .488
O'Brien - .563
Because these aren't all the same teams.
And in Mitchell's first full year with The Wayne Fontes led Detroit Lions (oh please we can't sink that low), Mitchell threw for over 4300 yards with 32 touchdowns to 12 interceptions and a passer rating of 92.3. He took the Lions ( the freaking Detroit Lions ) to the playoffs 2 of his first 3 seasons. Detroit made the problem of not cutting him when he started to tail off. He stayed there a year or two too long and then fell apart.
I don't think Os will fall off to that level, but if he pulls a Hoyer or Mallett, he won't be here 4 years as a failed Wentz or Goff would be
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ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
Put on record that the texans made the best move possible given the situation.
That can't be right. Progress?
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
And you don't take anyone to task with your condescending drinking the kool-aid remarks?
You don't like Osweiler after 7 games but LOVE Goff and Wentz with 0 games. Makes perfect sense. We get it already. If that's your opinion, fine. But don't act like you're some guru that knows better than anybody else.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
It's been getting better all the time!
Although Capers left Houston to win a Super Bowl as defensive coordinator with the Packers. Kubiak left Houston to win a Super Bowl as head coach for the Broncos after a brief stint as offensive coordinator with the Ravens.
Capers and Kubiak probably aren't complaining. Their careers turned out pretty good after leaving Houston. Or as Larry David would say, pretty... pretty... pretty good!
I want our Super Bowl rings engraved in those awesome diamonds etched onto that shiny Texans logo. Still waiting here, it's going to happen sooner or later!
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Which one was my post snarky or belligerent? Wasn't meant to come off that way.
I was simply asking if you had any actual analysis of his play on the field?
Like...is his footwork bad? Inaccurate? Doesn't work the pocket well? Arm strength? Feel for the game? ???
I'm honestly asking because when I see a guy I like or don't like or have no opinion about, and people point out a contrasting view and point to things I can go observe I actually like to go and look at that. I mean this is a football board. Who knows maybe if you were to point out something you actually see with his play people would say, hey Texian you're right...or hey I don't think that's an issue because....
So is there something about his actual game you don't like? Or is it just because he was a back up, has similar numbers as some other guy and Elway didn't get the signing done?
I'm just saying....you're using a broad brush and describing people who disagree with you as optimist and homers and you're the self described realist. But when I ask what's your actual analysis of his play, you say it's belligerent snark? come on.
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The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Also, I've seen some comparisons of Osweiler's and Hoyer's stats and how they rank to about the same place. But if you look at common opponents (Chiefs, Pats, and Bengals), the stats are more like this:
Hoyer: 56/112, 650 yards, 1TD, 6INT, 50% completion, 5.8 ypa
Osweiler: 64/105, 715 yards, 3TD, 2 INT, 61% completion, 6.8 ypa
(I didn't have fumbles and sacks handy so I didn't go looking for them, but they should probably be included.)
Although, if you exclude the playoff game, it becomes:
Hoyer: 41/78, 514 yards, 1TD, 2 INT, 52% completion, 6.6 ypa
To me, after having watched every play Hoyer made this season and watching Osweiler against the Chargers (2nd game), Bengals, Patriots, Steelers, and Bears, I don't see how people could think these two players were similar. Osweiler goes through his progressions (although he probably needs to do it more quickly), he throws with anticipation, he fits the ball into tight windows, and he hits guys in stride. I've seen him make some really great, exciting throws. He's got a problem recognizing corner blitzes, he will frequently take a sack instead of throwing the ball away, and I can't tell if his problem with screen passes is because of the design of the plays or because of something he's doing wrong.
Hoyer: 56/112, 650 yards, 1TD, 6INT, 50% completion, 5.8 ypa
Osweiler: 64/105, 715 yards, 3TD, 2 INT, 61% completion, 6.8 ypa
(I didn't have fumbles and sacks handy so I didn't go looking for them, but they should probably be included.)
Although, if you exclude the playoff game, it becomes:
Hoyer: 41/78, 514 yards, 1TD, 2 INT, 52% completion, 6.6 ypa
To me, after having watched every play Hoyer made this season and watching Osweiler against the Chargers (2nd game), Bengals, Patriots, Steelers, and Bears, I don't see how people could think these two players were similar. Osweiler goes through his progressions (although he probably needs to do it more quickly), he throws with anticipation, he fits the ball into tight windows, and he hits guys in stride. I've seen him make some really great, exciting throws. He's got a problem recognizing corner blitzes, he will frequently take a sack instead of throwing the ball away, and I can't tell if his problem with screen passes is because of the design of the plays or because of something he's doing wrong.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
I'd rather give up not my money for a player than trade away practically an entire draft to move up for meh rookie QBs. Just my opinion, but I think it'd be easier to recover from a front loaded contract vs a couple starters and young potential. Especially with the cap continually rising over the next couple years. That is, if either scenario didn't pan out.
Do I think O is a franchise/elite, or whatever we call them nowadays, Qb? Nah, not yet anyway. Do I think he was the best option for the team given our draft slot and what's available? Absolutely
I watched the 30-0 during my nieces wedding and witnessed the worst QB play I'd probably ever seen. Her wedding and the mass consumption saved that day. lol
Do I think O is a franchise/elite, or whatever we call them nowadays, Qb? Nah, not yet anyway. Do I think he was the best option for the team given our draft slot and what's available? Absolutely
I watched the 30-0 during my nieces wedding and witnessed the worst QB play I'd probably ever seen. Her wedding and the mass consumption saved that day. lol
This is what I'd really like to read from folks, too. Their perspectives in analyzing Brock's game and technique.
I really enjoyed the Jon Gruden video with Brock before the 2012 draft. Now, keep in mind that Gruden comes off as loving every QB that he's ever interviewed, so you have to take that with a grain of salt. But, that said, there is some good insight in that video. What impressed me the most was Brock taking notes when Gruden was talking about his height being both a positive and negative. Positive because he can see over his linemen and clearly see downfield, but negative because that height makes it much easier for defenders to read his eyes. As Gruden was talking about this and giving pointers, Brock was busy writing it all down, which is clear that he's a student of the game and someone that understood that he still had a lot to learn about the pro game. That was four years ago and before he basically became an understudy for Peyton Manning. And honestly, I don't think there would be a better HoF QB to study for all the various aspects of being a pro QB than Manning. We cannot underestimate what Brock has learned in the past four seasons backing up one of the top 3 QBs of all time.
No doubt in my mind if the Texans thought of Wentz/Goff the way many here do, they'd have given up what they needed to give up to get him. That they didn't tells me, they don't agree with all the pundits. Wentz & Goff may be great prospects, but they're not sold on them returning the amount of production needed to make the investment required.
It's as simple as that. The Texans agree with you, $37M over the next two years was about all they were willing to gamble.
PapaL
Loose Screw
Why don't QBs wear tinted/reflective visors? Random thought...nevermind, it's been banned sine '98 (unless there's a medical need for tint). I loved that look.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
It isn't "as simple as that." There's no certainty there is a trade partner.
Pass on Oz, miss a trade and you're f'kededed. There is value in certainty.
* This coming from someone whose preferred option was Goff.
Yep I think McNair is about .500 in the last decade of Kubiak/BOB.
Glass half full, McNair's improving.
Glass half empty, McNair has settled into his $$$$ making sweet spot of mediocrity.
House of Pain
Wild Speculator
I too went to my cousin's wedding in Atlanta and commiserated in a similar fashion. You know it's bad when you're walking around the city in Texans gear and people are just apologizing to you.
Is Os my 'ideal' QB for the Texans? No, but based on what I know about him (very little) I don't see any reason that we cannot go deep into the playoffs with him. Notice I said "with" him and not "because of him" because I do not believe that we need an 'elite QB' to do so. Getting Os ensures that at a minimum, we have a serviceable QB that can run the offense without having a mental breakdown. It also ensures that we have high round draft picks for the next 2 years, which is irreplaceable.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
For anybody who doubts Brock Osweiler, do yourself a favor and watch every snap he took in that game he played against the undefeated Patriots from this past season. He made several big-time throws in that game that only a handful of quarterbacks in this league can make right now.
Osweiler has elite potential. You can't teach that special arm he has. Only a few QBs in this league have it, the likes of which are named Aaron Rodgers, Joe Flacco and a couple others. Whether he develops or not is yet to be seen but he has all the tools you can definitely work with. There's a reason why the Texans are paying him $72 million based on seven starts.
The NFL Network may re-air that game again between the Broncos and Patriots from this past 2015 season. It was on a few nights ago. The game Brock Osweiler became "the man" IMO.
Right now they're showing the 2000 AFC wild-card game between the Bills and Titans (the music city miracle - lateral). Jeez, how much younger Jeff Fisher and Wade Phillips look. Although Phillips still had gray hair back in 2000. But Fisher looks like he could still play!
Osweiler has elite potential. You can't teach that special arm he has. Only a few QBs in this league have it, the likes of which are named Aaron Rodgers, Joe Flacco and a couple others. Whether he develops or not is yet to be seen but he has all the tools you can definitely work with. There's a reason why the Texans are paying him $72 million based on seven starts.
The NFL Network may re-air that game again between the Broncos and Patriots from this past 2015 season. It was on a few nights ago. The game Brock Osweiler became "the man" IMO.
Right now they're showing the 2000 AFC wild-card game between the Bills and Titans (the music city miracle - lateral). Jeez, how much younger Jeff Fisher and Wade Phillips look. Although Phillips still had gray hair back in 2000. But Fisher looks like he could still play!
Just look at what he did relieving Peyton in the KC game.
Compare that to what Hoyer did in week 1 & week 18.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Out of curiosity, is there an outside chance, a remote possibility that I might be right?
Texian
Hall of Fame
Let me explain it this way, it will be easier for some to understand. Bob McNair bought him an NFL Madden Game. The difference is McNair's game comes with real people, live football players. There are only 32 versions of this version of Madden, all have been sold. The bottom line, Bob McNair is not very good at playing his version of the Madden NFL Game.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Is that what it's about for you? I'm right hear me roar?
Of course you "could" be right, just like anyone else "could" be. Can you, out of curiosity, subscribe to that?
Some of y'all really need to get over yourselves. This is a forum of opinion, not a freaking contest.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Responding to a Snarky Belligerent comment:
A simple Yes or No would suffice.
For all those who don't want to be right;
Out of curiosity, is there an outside chance, a remote possibility that I might be wrong?
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Brandon420tx
Flounder
Can you make a list? You've made a lot of claims in this thread both generic and specific.
My cover-all answer of this moment is:
You can remotely be right about most of them, except when it comes to Blake Bortles (as long as he's with the Jags).
About the only claim you've made so far that I can immediately counter with 100% is the McNair is the worst owner in the league one. I think Dan Snyder, Sahid, and whoever runs the dumpster fire that is the Cleveland Browns can argue all day with you on that one. You may have been more generic then that though and in that case again you could remotely be right.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Can you make a list? You've made a lot of claims in this thread both generic and specific.
My cover-all answer of this moment is:
You can remotely be right about most of them, except when it comes to Blake Bortles (as long as he's with the Jags).
About the only claim you've made so far that I can immediately counter with 100% is the McNair is the worst owner in the league one. I think Dan Snyder, Sahid, and whoever runs the dumpster fire that is the Cleveland Browns can argue all day with you on that one. You may have been more generic then that though and in that case again you could remotely be right.
I don't think I ever said that McNair was the worst owner in the league. again, your words not mine. What I have said is from a standpoint of putting an X and O product on the field, McNair's performance has been less than average, ordinary and mediocre.
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Brandon420tx
Flounder
Just watched all of his plays from last year.
The Broncos definitely could have won the Super Bowl with his playing last year.
I like his feet, moves well for how big he is.
Has strong quick throws. Weird watching that sidearm motion though, but the ball tends to go where he wants it to.
Makes good reads, got bamboozled with lots of pressure some times, but who doesn't.
I don't know how much they asked him to change up the plays so it's hard to tell about that, but he was effective with ball fakes to the RB and the pump, so that's refreshing!
Looks to be a solid upgrade over our last few years QB's.
I'm excited to see what Obrien can do with him!
Os also has a bit of a tendency to not see LB's drop off in coverage. I saw 4-5 plays where he was lucky the ball didn't get intercepted. That's a fixable issue to me.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
He's got to identify corner blitzes better, too. He's almost gotten himself killed a couple of times.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
He pushes the ball kinda Like Dan Marino .
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Also kinda like David Carr :kubepalm:
He pushes the ball kinda Like Dan Marino .
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Also kinda like David Carr :kubepalm:
I thought Marino too, lol
Didn't dare mention it!
Agreed. If it weren't for the last two seasons I don't know that I would be as optimistic. I'll never forgive O'b for putting us in the situation we were in. But winning seasons with back up QBs is impressive.
He got Fitzpatrick's best year by keeping the leash tight. But he let Hoyer be Hoyer & dealt with crap as it came up.
Like you, I can't wait to see what he can do with Os
DX-TEX
#TomSavageDontCare
'So is hyping the great unknown. aka: NFL drafted QB's
Section516
Warrior
So...
Elway spends $$ on a LT (Okung) to protect the Sanchize? One which the good Dr. noted has concerning history/left shoulder injury.
Elway spends $$ on a LT (Okung) to protect the Sanchize? One which the good Dr. noted has concerning history/left shoulder injury.
OB also got the best out of Hoyer, statistically speaking. Hoyer is who he is: adequate against below average defenses and a freaking train wreck against average and above defenses.
I'm not 100% certain that it's OB's fault that the Texans QB situation has been a train wreck. I'll never forgive him if Hoyer is on the post draft roster, though.
The thing that concerns me, as I have mentioned before, is that OB's offense has only looked decent to good when it's been scaled back for replacement QB's. Is that due to simply a lack of talent (Hoyer), being a complete headcase (Mallett) or is it just not a very good offense and OB outsmarts himself?
Watching the QB's, especially Savage, this preseason will be very telling to me. That's just because he's had the most experience in the "system", not because I want him to start over Os. I would like to see an open competition at the position, though. Let the best man win.
Fred
Veteran
Maybe right. Or maybe it is: So do you sign Steve Young for $72 Million or do you package 3 high picks to move up to draft Ryan Leaf?
The truth is probably in between: maybe Andy Dalton vs Ryan Tannehill.
Don't worry. Elway is a freaking genius of a GM. Denver might struggle to go 8-8 next season, #1 defense or not. It's going to be interesting to see how Kubiak uses Sanchez.
It will end in two years, when the hypothetical's have been tested and the results are in. The funny part is that both sides of the argument can be right or wrong.
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infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Odds on Sanchez having his best season if he ends up starter?
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Yeah, thats the way I think of it. In another thread, I questioned Elliot vision and pop in the hole not off read option stuff. Another poster disagreed and gave his opinion and a video. Thats how I and some analyze players, not based on something from another player 10 years ago. Texian normally has good insight or breakdown on certain players, but when he gets in a thread about certain players, he's spews non sense.
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