Brock Osweiler agrees to 4 year 72 million

[badboy]

Broncos never had a chance to match.


Interesting.

How do you know that? I am pretty sure I read or heard that Elway made the decision not to go higher than $30 guarantee and 16 m a year. Not a big deal either way to me.

Edit I just read CNND's post about Osweiler's agent saying Denver did not get chance to match.

 

[steelbtexan]

why? Not disagreeing but interested in why. There are WRs and OL that will be available day two.

I'm greedy, but I want Smith to draft Doctson at 22 and trade back into rd.1 and draft Spriggs or Comklin. It will cost 2nd and 3rd rd picks but it's a small price to pay. IMHO

 

[steelbtexan]

why? Not disagreeing but interested in why. There are WRs and OL that will be available day two.

I'm greedy, but I want Smith to draft Doctson at 22 and trade back into rd.1 and draft Spriggs or Comklin. It will cost 2nd and 3rd rd picks but it's a small price to pay. IMHO

 

[Number19]

I'm greedy, but I want Smith to draft Doctson at 22 and trade back into rd.1 and draft Spriggs or Comklin. It will cost 2nd and 3rd rd picks but it's a small price to pay. IMHO

Doctson is good and I would go with it, but Hopkins and Strong are already the same style of receiver. My choice is to go with the burner. Dotson has 4.5 speed. Corey Coleman has 4.38 speed and is also graded to go in the bottom third of the first.

I've seen a few posters who favor Will Fuller. Fuller is the other burner in this draft and has 4.35 speed. However he has a lean frame at 6' and 186#. Coleman is 5'-10" and 194#. He also has 9" hands compared to Fuller's 8.25".

But a deciding factor between the two is that Coleman returned kicks in college and Fuller did not.

Also, I like the fact that Baylor had a high octane passing offense in which Coleman was targeted 39% of the time.

Actually, it's pretty much a toss up between the two and I could go with whichever one the coaches like.

 

[TheRealJoker]

The Panthers have had success acquiring bigger WRs with a larger catch radius for Cam. I think Osweiller will have similar issues when he's inaccurate as Cam of missing "high" and having WRs that can highpoint the ball will make things much easier on our young QB.

OB and Smith have put a premium on players with optimal size/length at WR and CB since OB has arrived. I doubt that will be changing come draft time. Doctson fits what OB wants perfectly!

 

[infantrycak]

Doctson is good and I would go with it, but Hopkins and Strong are already the same style of receiver. My choice is to go with the burner. Dotson has 4.5 speed. Corey Coleman has 4.38 speed and is also graded to go in the bottom third of the first.

I've seen a few posters who favor Will Fuller. Fuller is the other burner in this draft and has 4.35 speed. However he has a lean frame at 6' and 186#. Coleman is 5'-10" and 194#. He also has 9" hands compared to Fuller's 8.25".

But a deciding factor between the two is that Coleman returned kicks in college and Fuller did not.

Also, I like the fact that Baylor had a high octane passing offense in which Coleman was targeted 39% of the time.

Actually, it's pretty much a toss up between the two and I could go with whichever one the coaches like.

Not one word on route running.

 

[Mollywhopper]

Coleman's speed can be dangerous. Problem is he offsets that by being neutralized fairly often by good coverage one on one and seemingly losing concentration when the ball is near. Doctson doesn't have these problems, and he's a better athlete than he's given credit for. I want a burner as much as the next guy, I'd like to have a team full. I just don't want one just to say we have one, and not when the other option is a more complete player and a more consistent threat to help move the team downfield.

And I like Coleman, I'd consider him if Doctson were off the board. But I'm not gonna pass on a weapon like Doctson if he's there (assuming we're ok at ol) and the biggest knock on him so far is he's too much like that standout player we already have. Because oh the horror in that.

 

[bah007]

Coleman did return 17 kicks as a freshman as a part-time special teamer. But once he broke into the starting lineup on offense he returned a grand total of 8 kicks and 3 punts over the last two seasons. I'm not saying he can't return kicks in the NFL but let's not pretend like he has some fantastic body of work there that he can hang his hat on.

And personally, I think both guys are overrated as receivers. They are both good players, but they are going to get drafted higher than they should because of their track speed and production in offenses that don't translate to the next level. I have Fuller as a 2nd round talent and Coleman as a 3rd. Those grades are based on their abilities as a WR, not as an athlete. Obviously, they grade in the first round in that area.

I would never deny Coleman's athleticism. That would be stupid. But I have watched a ton of Baylor and Coleman barely ever runs anything other than screens and go routes. He's a very raw route runner. A lot of people think that's not important. I think it's incredibly important. Route running is a skill and just because you are a good athlete doesn't mean that you can just do it. There are a ton of fast NFL WRs that never learn how to run good routes and so they end up being only decoys or situational players. That's all well and good, but I'll take one of those in the mid rounds or later, not in the first. If y'all go back and watch Coleman, one thing you will notice immediately is that any time he runs any type of route that has a break in it he will signal the break two steps before he makes it just about every single time. That's fine when you can out-athlete any defender that is covering you and beat them to the ball. But in the NFL the DBs are just as athletic as you. You have to be deceptive with your routes. If you give away where you are going before you even make your move to get there you are giving a pick six to your QB's stat line. Another thing Coleman has zero experience with is hot routes. Coleman has no experience reading coverage. At Baylor he didn't have to. The coaches call all the audibles and hots from the sideline. And even if they didn't, Baylor's scheme and tempo force teams to play very basic coverage the majority of the time. So he didn't face a ton of exotic looks. That's one thing that I thought was very underrated about Beckham and Landry when they were coming out of LSU. They would both read the coverage pre-snap and then signal their route adjustment in to Mettenberger. That's NFL WR work right there, and lo and behold they've made a quick adjustment to facing NFL coverages.

One thing that Texas has done the last two years against Baylor is to show man coverage across the field pre-snap and then play man on one half of the field and switch to a zone on the other side. The Baylor coaches can't call a zone beater because they don't know which side is playing zone. And the QB and WRs can't adjust after the snap because they don't know how to read it. In those two games Coleman has a combined 8 catches for 79 yards, and that includes a 30 yard TD where his defender tripped and fell down. Coleman absolutely murdered Oklahoma and TCU last year. This year they copied Texas and ran the same type of deceptive coverages. Coleman combined for 4 catches for 59 yards in the two games. He gets a break against TCU because his QB was out, but they still threw the ball 24 times and only completed 7.

I haven't watched nearly as much of Fuller but when I do I notice right off the bat that he isn't a natural catcher. He brings the ball into his body instead of snatching it with his hands. And that is why he leads the nation in drops two years running. And while he runs crisp routes to the interior, on out-breaking routes he is sloppy and rounds them off. That gives DBs an extra step to beat you to the ball or force a contested catch. And his game is all about speed, not fighting off DBs for a contested ball.

 

[Number19]

Coleman did return 17 kicks as a freshman as a part-time special teamer. But once he broke into the starting lineup on offense he returned a grand total of 8 kicks and 3 punts over the last two seasons. I'm not saying he can't return kicks in the NFL but let's not pretend like he has some fantastic body of work there that he can hang his hat on.

And personally, I think both guys are overrated as receivers. They are both good players, but they are going to get drafted higher than they should because of their track speed and production in offenses that don't translate to the next level. I have Fuller as a 2nd round talent and Coleman as a 3rd. Those grades are based on their abilities as a WR, not as an athlete. Obviously, they grade in the first round in that area.

I would never deny Coleman's athleticism. That would be stupid. But I have watched a ton of Baylor and Coleman barely ever runs anything other than screens and go routes. He's a very raw route runner. A lot of people think that's not important. I think it's incredibly important. Route running is a skill and just because you are a good athlete doesn't mean that you can just do it. There are a ton of fast NFL WRs that never learn how to run good routes and so they end up being only decoys or situational players. That's all well and good, but I'll take one of those in the mid rounds or later, not in the first. If y'all go back and watch Coleman, one thing you will notice immediately is that any time he runs any type of route that has a break in it he will signal the break two steps before he makes it just about every single time. That's fine when you can out-athlete any defender that is covering you and beat them to the ball. But in the NFL the DBs are just as athletic as you. You have to be deceptive with your routes. If you give away where you are going before you even make your move to get there you are giving a pick six to your QB's stat line. Another thing Coleman has zero experience with is hot routes. Coleman has no experience reading coverage. At Baylor he didn't have to. The coaches call all the audibles and hots from the sideline. And even if they didn't, Baylor's scheme and tempo force teams to play very basic coverage the majority of the time. So he didn't face a ton of exotic looks. That's one thing that I thought was very underrated about Beckham and Landry when they were coming out of LSU. They would both read the coverage pre-snap and then signal their route adjustment in to Mettenberger. That's NFL WR work right there, and lo and behold they've made a quick adjustment to facing NFL coverages.

One thing that Texas has done the last two years against Baylor is to show man coverage across the field pre-snap and then play man on one half of the field and switch to a zone on the other side. The Baylor coaches can't call a zone beater because they don't know which side is playing zone. And the QB and WRs can't adjust after the snap because they don't know how to read it. In those two games Coleman has a combined 8 catches for 79 yards, and that includes a 30 yard TD where his defender tripped and fell down. Coleman absolutely murdered Oklahoma and TCU last year. This year they copied Texas and ran the same type of deceptive coverages. Coleman combined for 4 catches for 59 yards in the two games. He gets a break against TCU because his QB was out, but they still threw the ball 24 times and only completed 7.

I haven't watched nearly as much of Fuller but when I do I notice right off the bat that he isn't a natural catcher. He brings the ball into his body instead of snatching it with his hands. And that is why he leads the nation in drops two years running. And while he runs crisp routes to the interior, on out-breaking routes he is sloppy and rounds them off. That gives DBs an extra step to beat you to the ball or force a contested catch. And his game is all about speed, not fighting off DBs for a contested ball.

Excellant. Thanks.

 

[ATXtexanfan]

I like doctson. Just sayin

 

[badboy]

Coleman did return 17 kicks as a freshman as a part-time special teamer. But once he broke into the starting lineup on offense he returned a grand total of 8 kicks and 3 punts over the last two seasons. I'm not saying he can't return kicks in the NFL but let's not pretend like he has some fantastic body of work there that he can hang his hat on.

And personally, I think both guys are overrated as receivers. They are both good players, but they are going to get drafted higher than they should because of their track speed and production in offenses that don't translate to the next level. I have Fuller as a 2nd round talent and Coleman as a 3rd. Those grades are based on their abilities as a WR, not as an athlete. Obviously, they grade in the first round in that area.

I would never deny Coleman's athleticism. That would be stupid. But I have watched a ton of Baylor and Coleman barely ever runs anything other than screens and go routes. He's a very raw route runner. A lot of people think that's not important. I think it's incredibly important. Route running is a skill and just because you are a good athlete doesn't mean that you can just do it. There are a ton of fast NFL WRs that never learn how to run good routes and so they end up being only decoys or situational players. That's all well and good, but I'll take one of those in the mid rounds or later, not in the first. If y'all go back and watch Coleman, one thing you will notice immediately is that any time he runs any type of route that has a break in it he will signal the break two steps before he makes it just about every single time. That's fine when you can out-athlete any defender that is covering you and beat them to the ball. But in the NFL the DBs are just as athletic as you. You have to be deceptive with your routes. If you give away where you are going before you even make your move to get there you are giving a pick six to your QB's stat line. Another thing Coleman has zero experience with is hot routes. Coleman has no experience reading coverage. At Baylor he didn't have to. The coaches call all the audibles and hots from the sideline. And even if they didn't, Baylor's scheme and tempo force teams to play very basic coverage the majority of the time. So he didn't face a ton of exotic looks. That's one thing that I thought was very underrated about Beckham and Landry when they were coming out of LSU. They would both read the coverage pre-snap and then signal their route adjustment in to Mettenberger. That's NFL WR work right there, and lo and behold they've made a quick adjustment to facing NFL coverages.

One thing that Texas has done the last two years against Baylor is to show man coverage across the field pre-snap and then play man on one half of the field and switch to a zone on the other side. The Baylor coaches can't call a zone beater because they don't know which side is playing zone. And the QB and WRs can't adjust after the snap because they don't know how to read it. In those two games Coleman has a combined 8 catches for 79 yards, and that includes a 30 yard TD where his defender tripped and fell down. Coleman absolutely murdered Oklahoma and TCU last year. This year they copied Texas and ran the same type of deceptive coverages. Coleman combined for 4 catches for 59 yards in the two games. He gets a break against TCU because his QB was out, but they still threw the ball 24 times and only completed 7.

I haven't watched nearly as much of Fuller but when I do I notice right off the bat that he isn't a natural catcher. He brings the ball into his body instead of snatching it with his hands. And that is why he leads the nation in drops two years running. And while he runs crisp routes to the interior, on out-breaking routes he is sloppy and rounds them off. That gives DBs an extra step to beat you to the ball or force a contested catch. And his game is all about speed, not fighting off DBs for a contested ball.

very well stated! Coleman will blow past NFL DBs occasionally at first but will be figured out quickly unless he learns routes. He will take double coverage away from Hopkins due to speed but soon OS will not want to throw to him.
From my thread January "End of regular season" mock in that forum:

1. WR Josh Docston 6'2" 195 wrist injury in game 10 left him with "only" 1327 yds on 79 catches for 16.8 avg. TDs 14. Cast & pins removed mid December and he should be ready for off season football activities. He catches like Hopkins with seemingly at least one wow catch per game; runs all routes & always aware of his QB and adjusts accordingly. 10 " hands with long arms, excellent red zone. If we had that QB, I'd consider Baylor's speedster Coleman..but we don't.

I also noted in another thread that CBS draftscout stated and I am quoting from memory "can teach clinics on route running, runs all routes inside and out. Goes up to high point as well as remains aware of QB to come back if needed to help out QB. Catches everything in his area and due to size, wins 50-50 catches over corner back."

That was changed recently by what appeared to be another writer for the site to Docston not running good routes due to team system. Anyone who watched Docston as bah007 and others obviously did would love to have him on Texans roster. I do not think Strong plays like either Hopkins or Docston. I like him and he should develop into a very good WR.

IMO, Charon Peake is more similar to Coleman and can be had later in draft; both are burners but not as good receivers

 

[bah007]

Excellant. Thanks.

No problem. I know a lot of people here like Coleman. I'm not anti Coleman. I think he can play.

I just feel like people look at him in the context of his college production instead of in the context of what he brings to a NFL team.

 

[bah007]

very well stated! Coleman will blow past NFL DBs occasionally at first but will be figured out quickly unless he learns routes. He will take double coverage away from Hopkins due to speed but soon OS will not want to throw to him.
From my thread January "End of regular season" mock in that forum:


I also noted in another thread that CBS draftscout stated and I am quoting from memory "can teach clinics on route running, runs all routes inside and out. Goes up to high point as well as remains aware of QB to come back if needed to help out QB. Catches everything in his area and due to size, wins 50-50 catches over corner back."

That was changed recently by what appeared to be another writer for the site to Docston not running good routes due to team system. Anyone who watched Docston as bah007 and others obviously did would love to have him on Texans roster. I do not think Strong plays like either Hopkins or Docston. I like him and he should develop into a very good WR.

IMO, Charon Peake is more similar to Coleman and can be had later in draft; both are burners but not as good receivers

I have to give you credit for being way ahead on Doctson. The more I watch of him I'm just blown away by his potential in a NFL offense.

 

[Fred]

Not one word on route running.

It's Baylor. The route is "run to the end zone and I'll throw it to ya".

 

[leebigeztx]

Well, there are some optiond out there including Mike Wallace or a guy like Patterson via trade who can fill a few roles. They texans dont have to limit themselves by the draft. I like a few wrs in the draft , but Obrien runs a option route type of passing game. So you need guys who have stop/start quickness. If they dont find a quality te, then a slot guy will be at a premium. I would also still look at a guy like Ronnie Hillman at rb since blue plays alot of special teams.

 

[PapaL]

Well, there are some optiond out there including Mike Wallace or a guy like Patterson via trade who can fill a few roles. They texans dont have to limit themselves by the draft. I like a few wrs in the draft , but Obrien runs a option route type of passing game. So you need guys who have stop/start quickness. If they dont find a quality te, then a slot guy will be at a premium. I would also still look at a guy like Ronnie Hillman at rb since blue plays alot of special teams.

Cordelle Patterson wouldn't stand a chance here. We cut *EZ* because his tree was limited. Patterson doesn't even have a tree.

 

[badboy]

Cordelle Patterson wouldn't stand a chance here. We cut Mump because his tree was limited. Patterson doesn't even have a tree.

are you referring to Keith Mumphery? I did not see that if so. Please provide link or how you know

 

[leebigeztx]

Cordelle Patterson wouldn't stand a chance here. We cut Mump because his tree was limited. Patterson doesn't even have a tree.

Mump doesnt have any special traits, Patterson does. In fact, Patterson has elite speed,quickness,size, but that doesnt mean he's elite. When the debate was going on about him predraft, I said Ididnt like his weight drop in routes. So, I wouldn't have drafted him in the 1st or 2nd rd. That said, he's a smoke screen ,break tackle type of guy and he's a top flight return man. If he's your 3rd wr and can do those things, he's worth a 5th rd pick.

 

[ChampionTexan]

are you referring to Keith Mumphery? I did not see that if so. Please provide link or how you know

They didn't cut him - he's still on the roster.

 

[xtruroyaltyx]

Cordelle Patterson wouldn't stand a chance here. We cut Mump because his tree was limited. Patterson doesn't even have a tree.

When did we cut mumph?

I don't see anything about that????

 

[steelbtexan]

Mump doesnt have any special traits, Patterson does. In fact, Patterson has elite speed,quickness,size, but that doesnt mean he's elite. When the debate was going on about him predraft, I said Ididnt like his weight drop in routes. So, I wouldn't have drafted him in the 1st or 2nd rd. That said, he's a smoke screen ,break tackle type of guy and he's a top flight return man. If he's your 3rd wr and can do those things, he's worth a 5th rd pick.

I will admit I was wrong about Patterson. I thought he had AJ traits.

Is he dumb as a box of rocks or does he lack in the work ethic area?

He certainly has the god given ability.

 

[badboy]

I will admit I was wrong about Patterson. I thought he had AJ traits.

Is he dumb as a box of rocks or does he lack in the work ethic area?

He certainly has the god given ability.

There was a thread or at least heavy posting before last season on Patterson. I wanted him when he went into draft. whoops

 

[PapaL]

are you referring to Keith Mumphery? I did not see that if so. Please provide link or how you know

When did we cut mumph?

I don't see anything about that????

I meant EZ. My mistake.

 

[thunderkyss]

 

[HOU-TEX]

Cordelle Patterson wouldn't stand a chance here. We cut *EZ* because his tree was limited. Patterson doesn't even have a tree.

 

[PapaL]

I will admit I was wrong about Patterson. I thought he had AJ traits.

Is he dumb as a box of rocks or does he lack in the work ethic area?

He certainly has the god given ability.

Everything I've heard/read about the guy is that he's dumb as a box of rocks.

This year:

http://thevikingage.com/2015/08/23/cordarrelle-patterson-screws-up-again-gets-testy-with-media/

At the time it was hard to tell who was more at fault, Patterson or QB Shaun Hill, but after the game Zimmer indicated it was likely Patterson.

“There was miscommunication,” on Shaun Hill INT intended for Patterson, Zimmer said. Wrong route? “Probably. If you were a betting man.”

— Andrew Krammer (@Andrew_Krammer) August 23, 2015

Zimmer has reached the sarcasm stage with Patterson, which isn’t a good sign for Patterson.

Patterson was not exactly in a mood after the game to discuss his screw up with the media, but that didn’t stop Judd Zulgad from trying to get a quote. Zulgad succeeded more-or-less.

Exchange with Cordarrelle Patterson. Patterson: What do you want? Me: Did you run the wrong route? Patterson: I don’t want to talk about it.

— Judd Zulgad (@1500ESPNJudd) August 23, 2015

Patterson is pretty close to flipping fans’ hats off in the parking lot. Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that.

...

Cordarrelle Patterson’s struggles are becoming a very tired subject not just for the team but for fans.

...

Patterson blew off Zimmer’s mentor in the offseason, and he came into camp looking like the same old unfocused guy in spite of big talk about a make-or-break season.

Patterson is all words and no deeds, all style and no substance. Sorry but those are the facts. It would be a waste of time to even worry about this guy anymore.

You need a new nickname Cordarrelle? How about “Flash-in-the-pan?”

---
Post Draft:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...now-they-have-to-treat-patterson-differently/

“If a player may be a little behind mentally, it’s our job to figure out the best way he learns and it’s our job to put a plan in place on how he’s going to do that,” Vikings general manager Rick Spielman said, via Tom Pelissero of 1500ESPN.com. “The other thing that’s very encouraging that we were very excited about was we felt that, after spending time with [Patterson], the work ethic is there, because if the kid is willing to work at it, then you have a lot better chance of having success.”

Someone in the comments translated:

So what Rick is really saying is, the kid has talent, but he’s dumb as a box of rocks. (And there were scouts at the combine who would agree with that assessment.)

If anyone seems to not be "Texans material" it's this guy.

 

[WolverineFan]

Patterson has averaged 10.8 yards per catch and 5.9 yards per target over his career. For someone with that kind of athleticism, that should tell you what a truly awful receiver he is. Great kick returner though.

For reference, Andre Johnson was absolutely washed up in Indy last year and he averaged 12.3 yards per catch and 6.5 yards per target.

 

[leebigeztx]

Patterson has averaged 10.8 yards per catch and 5.9 yards per target over his career. For someone with that kind of athleticism, that should tell you what a truly awful receiver he is. Great kick returner though.

For reference, Andre Johnson was absolutely washed up in Indy last year and he averaged 12.3 yards per catch and 6.5 yards per target.

Which is what I'm saying. Just like Ted Ginn, his value is as a shot player and kick returner. His special teams ability is enough to keep him in the league for 10 yrs, ie mel grey, mitchell. If you get a guy like him, you create a specific role or package. For Patterson, no sight adjustment on routes. He's running fly, smoke screens, and post routes, that's it. Also, he's the kick returner. That's all the texan need out of him are plays in his package.

 

[Thorn]

The head coach and our new QB have the same initials. We should now refer to them as Bobo.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

The head coach and our new QB have the same initials. We should now refer to them as Bobo.

I prefer BO and OB: BOOB.

 

[Thorn]

I prefer BO and OB: BOOB.

your nickname is better than mine. LOL

 

[thunderkyss]

Keep in mind, that you've already seen Brock Osweiler, you've already come to terms with the deal, what it was about, & what it means to you as a fan of the Houston Texans. I dug up this story, still combing the net looking for Osweiler stuff. I brought it here, because I want to talk about one thing in particular. Not to talk about what a douche this guy is.

Never overpay in a salary cap league. Yes, Osweiler is a better quarterback than I thought he was. But not a whole lot better. Not to bore you with analytics, but Denver won the Super Bowl with bad quarterback play that was below replacement cost. The Dolphins were stupid to give Ryan Tannehill $77 million. John Elway is not stupid. No general manager in his right mind would pay Osweiler elite money for seven games in which he was not statistically better than Blaine Gabbert. As a starting point in negotiations with Osweiler, I'm at three years and $28.5 million. Will that get a deal done? Maybe not. But if the Broncos seriously overpay for a quarterback, they're in trouble.

So we've already talked about the overpaying thing. Overpaying for Denver is one thing, they're strapped for cash. Overpaying for us is quite another as we have the money to do the deal & not cripple our team.

But what gets me is basing the decision on a statistical argument. Statistically, our QBs played as well as Denver's QBs. Our defense was in Denver's range. But on game day, when it mattered, there was a big difference & that difference resulted in more wins for them, less for us (3 more wins/losses).

Don't get me wrong, I expect a certain floor statistically. But the main thing I would base my decision on, is watching him play. There's no doubt in my mind that he helped his team win five of those games & the two they didn't win, he was still a net positive. Not statistically, but in situations that would have extended drives or put points on the board he was a positive. I know that's hard to quantify, but watching him play I'm convinced I could help him be more consistently good than not.

 

[JB]

But what gets me is basing the decision on a statistical argument.

Stats are for losers

 

[Sampson]

Keep in mind, that you've already seen Brock Osweiler, you've already come to terms with the deal, what it was about, & what it means to you as a fan of the Houston Texans. I dug up this story, still combing the net looking for Osweiler stuff. I brought it here, because I want to talk about one thing in particular. Not to talk about what a douche this guy is.



So we've already talked about the overpaying thing. Overpaying for Denver is one thing, they're strapped for cash. Overpaying for us is quite another as we have the money to do the deal & not cripple our team.

But what gets me is basing the decision on a statistical argument. Statistically, our QBs played as well as Denver's QBs. Our defense was in Denver's range. But on game day, when it mattered, there was a big difference & that difference resulted in more wins for them, less for us (3 more wins/losses).

Don't get me wrong, I expect a certain floor statistically. But the main thing I would base my decision on, is watching him play. There's no doubt in my mind that he helped his team win five of those games & the two they didn't win, he was still a net positive. Not statistically, but in situations that would have extended drives or put points on the board he was a positive. I know that's hard to quantify, but watching him play I'm convinced I could help him be more consistently good than not.

It's funny how reliant on statistics I've seen people be with the Brock situation. My guess it's because there is such a small sample size that we cling to those numbers. The problem is that it's a small sample size and we aren't looking at the numbers though the correct lens. Yes, his season statistics were on par with some pretty low level QB's, but there are several factors to remember. It was his first 7 starts (his first 7 match favorably to some very good QBs); the oline and offense was a mess (Manning got old, but he wasn't the 36th best QB in the league); and he was very good at not hurting his team (something the similar statistical QB's struggle with).

 

[Texian]

So do you sign Scott Mitchell for $72 Million or do you package 3 high picks to move up to draft Aaron Rodgers? McNair opted to sign his version of Scott Mitchell.

 

[GoCoogs]

Never overpay in a salary cap league. Yes, Osweiler is a better quarterback than I thought he was. But not a whole lot better. Not to bore you with analytics, but Denver won the Super Bowl with bad quarterback play that was below replacement cost. The Dolphins were stupid to give Ryan Tannehill $77 million. John Elway is not stupid. No general manager in his right mind would pay Osweiler elite money for seven games in which he was not statistically better than Blaine Gabbert. As a starting point in negotiations with Osweiler, I'm at three years and $28.5 million. Will that get a deal done? Maybe not. But if the Broncos seriously overpay for a quarterback, they're in trouble.

I wonder if he would feel the same way if he had to watch through three seasons of broken Schaub, Case Keenum, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Ryan Mallett, Brian Hoyer, TJ Yates, and Brandon Weeden.

 

[Texian]

It's funny how reliant on statistics I've seen people be with the Brock situation. My guess it's because there is such a small sample size that we cling to those numbers. The problem is that it's a small sample size and we aren't looking at the numbers though the correct lens. Yes, his season statistics were on par with some pretty low level QB's, but there are several factors to remember. It was his first 7 starts (his first 7 match favorably to some very good QBs); the oline and offense was a mess (Manning got old, but he wasn't the 36th best QB in the league); and he was very good at not hurting his team (something the similar statistical QB's struggle with).

More important than the stats available is Bill O'Brien's eye and talent for QB evaluation and to date it has been close to 100% abysmal.

 

[Sampson]

More important than the stats available is Bill O'Brien's eye and talent for QB evaluation and to date it has been close to 100% abysmal.

I can't speak on that, I don't know who is calling the shots on personnel in Houston.

 

[ChampionTexan]

So do you sign Scott Mitchell for $72 Million or do you package 3 high picks to move up to draft Aaron Rodgers? McNair opted to sign his version of Scott Mitchell.

More important than the stats available is Bill O'Brien's eye and talent for QB evaluation and to date it has been close to 100% abysmal.

Many folks on this board - even a fair number of us firmly in support of the move - recognize there's a reasonable possibility the Osweiler addition doesn't ultimately work out. To put it mildly - you're obviously one of those folks.

Since you will no doubt be on this board beating your chest about it if it were to work out that way, I'm curious as to what would constitute Osweiler being a success in your eyes? What would need to transpire over the next two years, or four years for you to say adding Brock was a good move for the Texans?

 

[FuzzyLogic]

So do you sign Scott Mitchell for $72 Million or do you package 3 high picks to move up to draft Aaron Rodgers? McNair opted to sign his version of Scott Mitchell.

I get your point to a degree. But 1) You act like McNair has full control over drafting your favorite QB in the draft, we have pick 22 and no sure fire method of making a team trade with us. 2) No matter how good of a talent elevator you think you are Wentz or Goff may be the next Rogers, or they may be the next Osweiler there are no guarantees in the draft.

So do you take the option where you for sure can get a quarterback? Or do you hope you can find a trade partner and move up to get one of the top 2 QBs in the draft? If that falls through you are OK telling your fans, "We believe in Hoyer, and he is still our guy"?

 

[The Pencil Neck]

So do you sign Scott Mitchell for $72 Million or do you package 3 high picks to move up to draft Aaron Rodgers? McNair opted to sign his version of Scott Mitchell.

This isn't an either/or situation.

There's nothing to say that Osweiler is Mitchell and there's nothing to say that Wentz or Goff would be Rodgers.

I've watched several of Osweiler's games and I see a good QB with the potential to be better. With Wentz and Goff I see rookies.

 

[JB]

Many folks on this board - even a fair number of us firmly in support of the move - recognize there's a reasonable possibility the Osweiler addition doesn't ultimately work out. To put it mildly - you're obviously one of those folks.

Since you will no doubt be on this board beating your chest about it if it were to work out that way, I'm curious as to what would constitute Osweiler being a success in your eyes? What would need to transpire over the next two years, or four years for you to say adding Brock was a good move for the Texans?

I'm just wondering why he isn't employed by some team in the NFL as a GM or at least a pro scout. Surely his talents are wasted here on this MB

 

[The Pencil Neck]

I'm just wondering why he isn't employed by some team in the NFL as a GM or at least a pro scout. Surely his talents are wasted here on this MB

Granted, though, he did call Carson Wentz as a hot pro prospect before this last college season began back when he was off most people's radar. I have to give him that.

 

[Texian]

Many folks on this board - even a fair number of us firmly in support of the move - recognize there's a reasonable possibility the Osweiler addition doesn't ultimately work out. To put it mildly - you're obviously one of those folks.

Since you will no doubt be on this board beating your chest about it if it were to work out that way, I'm curious as to what would constitute Osweiler being a success in your eyes? What would need to transpire over the next two years, or four years for you to say adding Brock was a good move for the Texans?

Easy answer - Over the next 3 to 4 years if Brock turns out to be the better QB than Wentz or Goff, then Brock would be the right decision and I would be wrong in my original assessment.

 

[Texian]

dupe

 

[DBCooper]

More important than the stats available is Bill O'Brien's eye and talent for QB evaluation and to date it has been close to 100% abysmal.

I agree with this point.

But his ability to make a bad QB play as best they possibly can has been stellar!

Lol

 

[DBCooper]

Easy answer - Over the next 3 to 4 years if Brock turns out to be the better QB than Wentz or Goff, then Brock would be the right decision and I would be wrong in my original assessment.

We have no chance to get either of those guys.

 

[Texian]

I'm just wondering why he isn't employed by some team in the NFL as a GM or at least a pro scout. Surely his talents are wasted here on this MB

But just think how much smarter you're because I am here keeping you informed. .

 

[JB]

But just think how much smarter you're because I am here keeping you informed. .

I don't know about smarter, but more informed for sure

 

[sandman]

We have no chance to get either of those guys.

Facts are irrelevant on a message board