Brock Osweiler agrees to 4 year 72 million

[steelbtexan]

Great post. Really. But I think we need to change the narrative here. When we're talking millions of dollars a year, the difference between the contract Osweiler signed & the Broncos final offer is peanuts. A pittance.

TheIR final offer was 3 years $16M, $48M total. We'll pay him $50M over the first three years. The 4th year is really inconsequential. He'll either play so bad that he'll be cut, or he'll play so well we offer him an extension.

The money was the same he basically didn't want to be in Denver.

Well being a 2nd rd pick OS wasn't making a whole lot of $$$$. The guaranteed $$$$ was the differencemaker.

 

[Seegara]

Does it make you mad enough to go away?

I could suggest somewhere you can go. The "likes" your comment received were just as uncalled for as the comment itself

 

[Bulls on Parade]

Texans, Patriots and Panthers.

It's down to those three teams playing Week 1 of the 2016 NFL season at Denver on the CBS Thursday Night opener.

Sure would be fun if it's the Texans...
Brock Osweiler's first game as a Texan at Denver.
On National TV against the defending Super Bowl champs.

The entire angle of the Texans facing their old coaching staff as well. Too many intriguing storylines for it not to be the Texans. J.J. Watt and Von Miller - the two best defensive players of our generation on the same field as well.

I'd be shocked if the Patriots or Panthers are picked over the Texans for that Thursday Night Week 1 opener at Denver.

 

[JB]

I could suggest somewhere you can go. The "likes" your comment received were just as uncalled for as the comment itself

I was just asking the question after your outlandish statement. Why does it bother you so much if you're mad enough to puke? Wouldn't you expect someone to escape a situation that bothered them that much?

 

[JB]

Texans, Patriots and Panthers.

It's down to those three teams playing Week 1 of the 2016 NFL season at Denver on the CBS Thursday Night opener.

Sure would be fun if it's the Texans...
Brock Osweiler's first game as a Texan at Denver.
On National TV against the defending Super Bowl champs.

The entire angle of the Texans facing their old coaching staff as well. Too many intriguing storylines for it not to be the Texans. J.J. Watt and Von Miller - the two best defensive players of our generation on the same field as well.

I'd be shocked if the Patriots or Panthers are picked over the Texans for that Thursday Night Week 1 opener at Denver.

No, it's down to the schedule makers (isn't it a computer program nowadays?) and has to fit in with how the rest of the season falls. That said I'd just as soon not face that defense week 1 even if I don't think they'll be quite as good as this year

 

[Bulls on Parade]

No, it's down to the schedule makers (isn't it a computer program nowadays?) and has to fit in with how the rest of the season falls. That said I'd just as soon not face that defense week 1 even if I don't think they'll be quite as good as this year

Yes, most of it is randomized on a computer and then humans make sure it's all practical and fits (time wise, venue wise).

But I heard from Lance Zierlein that the NFL schedules are coming out next month, but that the NFL has already narrowed down the Week 1 Thursday Night opener to those three teams playing at Denver.

The computer may have less impact for the Thursday Night opener... As that game is usually the defending Super Bowl champion at home (wasn't one year with the Ravens because the Orioles had a conflicting home game), but I don't think the "AI" is going to decide this particular game.

The Week 1 Thursday Night opener is just a special event.
I always watch the full 30-minute concert prior to the game as well.

 

[El Tejano]

Makes sense to me. There are a few other things to look at, like size, arm strength, the offense they played in, the school they played for, the competition... & I'm just saying. I know Parcells rules, I'm just adding other traditional boxes that need to be checked.

All of Parcells' rules, & the other boxes... AJ McCarron, Connor Cook, Kevin Hogan they check them all. But in today's NFL, these are not the guys that are coveted.

I think teams are looking for lightning in a bottle, a savior, instead of looking for that kingpin to building a team. Right or wrong, this is where the NFL is heading. Well, this is where we are.

Oh please don't covet that guy. Getting him in a later round would make the Osweiler deal so much better because then we will have picked up a very solid QB in this draft and not give up the farm for him.

 

[speedfreek]

Here's one.

The Osweiler signing makes more sense than the Schaub signing did. It makes more sense than the Brady Baby acquisitions. It makes infinitely more sense than drafting Christian Hackenberg and trying to recapture the magic of the 2013 Penn State Nittany Lions. It's the best move the Texans could have made, and it pushed them forward among AFC contenders at the same time that it pushed the Broncos back.

Welp, I hope that guys is right. Because, if he isn't, it's yet another day on the hamster
wheel that has become being a fan of the Texans.

 

[speedfreek]

Wait, you think Os is a gamble, you want to address needs, and you don't want to waste a couple of years ... but with our most valuable resource you'd take a college kid with wonky accuracy who hasn't so much as sniffed a pro-style offense and settle in for those couple of years?

Yep, because that college kid doesn't cost 37 mil for two years. (which impacts our ability
to improve in other areas)

And by the way, Os has 7 starts. That's 28 quarters more than any rookie we would draft.
Os isn't a seasoned guy like Steve Young or Aaron Rodgers.

 

[Seegara]

I was just asking the question after your outlandish statement. Why does it bother you so much if you're mad enough to puke? Wouldn't you expect someone to escape a situation that bothered them that much?

You were suggesting that I quit posting because you disagree with what I write, so don't lie about it.

 

[JB]

You were suggesting that I quit posting because you disagree with what I write, so don't lie about it.

Don't try to tell me what I was thinking, I was very plain in the question I asked. I didn't say what I thought of you, though I'd be happy to if you need to hear it. Don't you ever accuse me of lying again, I don't need to lie on a fkn message board. Your just upset because no one jumped up and told you how great you are at sensationalism.

 

[Say Watt]

It's two years at a guaranteed 37 mil. Let that sink in. That is 37 mil we _wont_ have to fix the line, or
to get pass catching TE's. or a return man, or a speed receiver, or <etc. ad infinitum>

If we're rolling the dice on a completely unproven QB, then lets do it on the cheap while
we sort the rest of the team's issues out.

Let's not just throw stupid money at one position and hope and pray the guy turns into Brady.

Look at it this way. BoB slightly overpaid to bring in Fitz, then he WAY overpaid to throw fitz away
and bring in Hoyer. (he lit money on fire signing Mallet)

Given that trend, I'd be wagering that the team just WAY WAY overpaid to throw Hoyer away and
sign Os. BoB doesn't look like a superstar talent evaluator to me..

I get that but it's now the going rate for a decent QB. Hell, Sam Bradford got as much.

Also, the Texans found themselves in great cap position, especially with the increase cap. There was no reason not to take the risk. None.

As for shoring up the line, they are already on their way to doing that with the two signings. They also will probably draft a lineman. And as cak mentioned earlier, it's ridiculous to separate return man into their own category. That speed receiver could be the guy. The draft hasn't even happened and you already know what all our needs are? And was QB not a HUGE need?

But hey if you guys want to constantly be depressed about this team and play couch GM like you had a better plan, then more power to you. But no way I'm letting you piss on my parade.

 

[infantrycak]

Yep, because that college kid doesn't cost 37 mil for two years. (which impacts our ability
to improve in other areas)

So now we use a high draft pick (or more than 1) on a QB leaving whatever holes we would have filled thru the draft to be filled thru free agency. And maybe get a lesser quality QB, certainly one less ready to start game 1.

I don't think you are thinking this all the way thru.

 

[Seegara]

Don't try to tell me what I was thinking, I was very plain in the question I asked. I didn't say what I thought of you, though I'd be happy to if you need to hear it. Don't you ever accuse me of lying again, I don't need to lie on a fkn message board. Your just upset because no one jumped up and told you how great you are at sensationalism.

Yes Sir.

 

[Wolfiegrrl]

Ya know... there was this guy in 2005 that got drafted really low in the 1st round. He sat behind an HOFer for the first 3 years. He only played in 7 games with and average 64.66% rate before becoming the starter and tearing it up. I can find parallels with him and our new QB. I'm going to go with that. Smart kid, learned from some of the best. I'm sure more than just a little bit rubbed off on Brock. It worked really well for Aaron Rodgers.

 

[eriadoc]

Lots of successful teams put this much and more into the QB position. The real question is will he perform to the top half of the league for which he is being paid.

Yeah, that's fine. It's $72M for Brock Osweiler that I have a problem with. The Texans have put all this money into a guy that has not proven anything, really. So if he turns out to be anything but spectacular (which is likely), how can they maintain a team going forward? They won't be able to acquire the talent necessary to overcome that sort of deficit. Basically, I look at it as performance-per-dollar-at-position. $72M is fkn crazy anyway, but if you have one of the top 10-12 QBs in the league, then OK, that is just the cost of doing business, and the quality play at that position will compensate for having an average OL, or TE, or whatever. But when you're sinking that sort of money into someone that isn't overcoming those other deficiencies, and then you don't have the money to go upgrade those other deficiencies ... well, that's another couple years gone from the career of guys like AJ and JJ Watt.

I know this is essentially a 2-year deal, so I'm not really down on the move, especially given the market these days, but I admit to a bit of sticker shock. It's like paying $100K for a Yugo and hoping you can turn it into a sleeper in the garage.

 

[infantrycak]

It's like paying $100K for a Yugo and hoping you can turn it into a sleeper in the garage.

Pardon the mixed metaphor. More like you're standing in front of a closed garage. There's a car inside for sure. Could be anything from a Yugo to a Bugatti, but it's pedigree is good.

 

[eriadoc]

Pardon the mixed metaphor. More like you're standing in front of a closed garage. There's a car inside for sure. Could be anything from a Yugo to a Bugatti, but it's pedigree is good.

Hey, like I said in my first post, I like the guy. I like taking a chance on a guy that has been developed. I really, really like the way he handled himself and the media in that situation with Manning. But $72M for what he's shown is crazy. That's the market, though. So I'll just cheer him on and be happy about it. I was rooting for the move before it was $72M, so I'm not downplaying the move now. I am just thinking of the risk, I guess.

Oh well, Go Texans!

 

[Wolf]

You were suggesting that I quit posting because you disagree with what I write, so don't lie about it.

So say we gave up 4 picks like the skins did 3 #1s and a 2nd (we probably would have to go steeper than that being we are picking at 22 and not 6th like the skins did) .. hell ray charles can see that we need a qb badly and our desperation would probably drive the price higher than 4 picks due to supply and demand.
How would that have helped the texans NOW being we have a defense we need weapons on offense. It is a,very steep price to also pay for an unproven qb
To me, with the loss of those potential drafts picks, we would end up overpaying for starting calibre FAs to fill holes that we cant draft replacements for over the next 3 years (going by the rg3 deal and what they gave up).

Time will tell. Deal is done. Now what is important is that the Texans hit on their picks. Build depth and quality to go with brock.

 

[Speedy]

Peyton Manning's 1st 7 starts: 54.5% completions, 9 TD, 14 INT, 63.5 QBR, 6.65 Y/A.

Brock Osweiler's 1st 7 starts: 62.1% completions, 9 TD, 5 INT, 87.8 QBR, 7.25 Y/A.

 

[Wolf]

Yeah, that's fine. It's $72M for Brock Osweiler that I have a problem with. The Texans have put all this money into a guy that has not proven anything, really. So if he turns out to be anything but spectacular (which is likely), how can they maintain a team going forward? They won't be able to acquire the talent necessary to overcome that sort of deficit. Basically, I look at it as performance-per-dollar-at-position. $72M is fkn crazy anyway, but if you have one of the top 10-12 QBs in the league, then OK, that is just the cost of doing business, and the quality play at that position will compensate for having an average OL, or TE, or whatever. But when you're sinking that sort of money into someone that isn't overcoming those other deficiencies, and then you don't have the money to go upgrade those other deficiencies ... well, that's another couple years gone from the career of guys like AJ and JJ Watt.

I know this is essentially a 2-year deal, so I'm not really down on the move, especially given the market these days, but I admit to a bit of sticker shock. It's like paying $100K for a Yugo and hoping you can turn it into a sleeper in the garage.

It goes both ways

Say the Texans gave up 3 no. 1s and a no. 2 (based on rg3 deal and i think the going rate would have been higher). What expectations are the fans going to have? They are going to want that qb to be spectacular. .can the qb live up to the hype early and often? Whats the odds? How much money do you think we would have to shell to pay FA to come here that would help build the team being we lose out on 3 years of #1 picks (for example). If our rookie isnt spectacular and the team sucks well. We are stuck. If Brock sucks we still have options with drafting..
I dont know why we as fans are worried about the salary right now. There is noone out there. We still have flexibility.

I dont know if Brock can be the guy,but he is the best option and i think the Texans were smart being proactive. We couldnt go into the season hoping a,qb falls to us or roll into the season with what we had.

Again, this is one step..they key is that the Texans NOW hit on their draft picks.

 

[Mollywhopper]

Yep, because that college kid doesn't cost 37 mil for two years. (which impacts our ability
to improve in other areas)

And by the way, Os has 7 starts. That's 28 quarters more than any rookie we would draft.
Os isn't a seasoned guy like Steve Young or Aaron Rodgers.

Regardless if it's a draft pick or cash against the cap getting a QB (or any player for that matter) costs a resource. This is a resource we could spare atm.

And I never said he was a seasoned guy like anyone, don't know why you thought it would be cute to make that argument. But those 28 quarters, and the years he's worked out in a realistic pro style offense are more than Lynch has probably played in Madden in his whole life, and clearly more than what he's actually stepped on a field and worked on or executed. No clue he can chew gum and call an NFL play at the same time as of right now.

But ya, you go ahead and use a valuable 1st round resource that impacts our ability to improve in some area on that guy versus a guy who's contributed to NFL wins already. Okey doke.

 

[JB]

Peyton Manning's 1st 7 starts: 54.5% completions, 9 TD, 14 INT, 63.5 QBR, 6.65 Y/A.

Brock Osweiler's 1st 7 starts: 62.1% completions, 9 TD, 5 INT, 87.8 QBR, 7.25 Y/A.

Huge difference in teams surrounding them more than make up for that difference

 

[Speedy]

Huge difference in teams surrounding them more than make up for that difference

Of course. There's always something.

The point is, however, great QBs start somewhere and they don't always start out great. Osweiler has started 7 freaking games. Let the guy learn the game and let's see if he gets it.

 

[Texecutioner]

So in one post, you say Kubiak isn't good at selecting/evaluating QB's. Then in a later post, you're concerned about Brock because Kubiak didn't want him?

If Kubiak isn't good at selecting QBs, we should be elated Kubiak didn't want Brock, right?

If I don't think he is that good at selecting QB's, because he is soft on them, and even he didn't want him what is so hard to understand? Seems pretty easy to figure out to me.

 

[Texecutioner]

Wow. This is all supposition and speculation on your part. Want me to go to McDonald's and get you a happy meal?

They let him walk, and their position has been made public. I didn't speculate anything.

 

[Texecutioner]

Elway offered him $30 million guaranteed.
So, you're saying Elway didn't want him but made a $30 million gamble that Osweiler would refuse his offer and sign with another team?

Some of you act like you guys just started watching the NFL or something here. You think Elway of all people is going to let a guy walk who he firmly believes should be his franchise QB? Elway has been the best GM in the league since he came in 2011, and I hate Elway. Hated him as a player and I hate his ass as a GM, but the dude is damn good at building teams. He built a team up so well that even Kubiak couldn't screw up the team he built this season. He has poached the right players from NE to make their team weaker as well. He has made a ton of shrewd moves since becoming a GM. He knows Osweiller very well. He knew exactly what he had in him. If he was willing to let him walk and go to another team knowing good well he wouldn't have a replacement at QB when his team should still be in the window of being able to win a SB, then that is not exactly a good sign.

Now I didn't say Osweiller was terrible or that he'll be a bust. For all I know he might play well. He looked good here and there, but he also looked very average at times as well. Drop this whole Elway wanted him thing though. If Elway wanted him, ELWAY WOULD HAVE MADE SURE HE GOT HIM. Brock seems like a QB that would do well in Kubiak's system as well. I'm pretty surprised that Kubiak didn't convince him knowing they were going to have to find a QB in a year where it is a poor draft class of QB's.

 

[Seegara]

Yeah, that's fine. It's $72M for Brock Osweiler that I have a problem with. The Texans have put all this money into a guy that has not proven anything, really. So if he turns out to be anything but spectacular (which is likely), how can they maintain a team going forward? They won't be able to acquire the talent necessary to overcome that sort of deficit. Basically, I look at it as performance-per-dollar-at-position. $72M is fkn crazy anyway, but if you have one of the top 10-12 QBs in the league, then OK, that is just the cost of doing business, and the quality play at that position will compensate for having an average OL, or TE, or whatever. But when you're sinking that sort of money into someone that isn't overcoming those other deficiencies, and then you don't have the money to go upgrade those other deficiencies ... well, that's another couple years gone from the career of guys like AJ and JJ Watt.

I know this is essentially a 2-year deal, so I'm not really down on the move, especially given the market these days, but I admit to a bit of sticker shock. It's like paying $100K for a Yugo and hoping you can turn it into a sleeper in the garage.

Exactly. It's a lot to pay. What would it have cost to switch with a team in the top 6? Surely not several future #1's.
Looks like we're stuck with Oz now, unless we get lucky and he fails our physical.

 

[Texecutioner]

Perhaps they bench him for Manning br cause a) #1 DEFENSE in the NFL b) Manning experience c) they didn't want his value to go up to high since he'd be a FA. Just because he left doesnt mean they didn't want him. I don't much about him, i personally wanted RGIII. But hopefully it works out.

Lol! So let me get this straight you think the Broncos would bench a guy in a season where they were making a SB run for the 4th year in a row potentially all so they could negotiate better in the off season?? Where is the logic in that? It could tick the guy off which it did in this case, and it would hurt their SB run. An organization that has been as smart as the Broncos doesn't strike me as a team that would do something so stupid that even the Raiders or the Browns wouldn't do.

 

[Bulls on Parade]

Peyton Manning's 1st 7 starts: 54.5% completions, 9 TD, 14 INT, 63.5 QBR, 6.65 Y/A.

Brock Osweiler's 1st 7 starts: 62.1% completions, 9 TD, 5 INT, 87.8 QBR, 7.25 Y/A.

Peyton Manning retired with four Super Bowl appearances and two Super Bowl wins. I think when Brock Osweiler retires he's going to have five or six Super Bowl rings on his finger. He already has one (one shy of Peyton).

As great as Peyton Manning was he strikes me as the LeBron James of the NFL. Great Hall of Fame talent, no doubt (won a couple championships), but lost his fair share of championship games (series). Also Peyton was carried by the Broncos defense like LeBron was carried by the great Ray Allen that one year (his miracle threes to beat the Spurs in the NBA Finals).

I think Brock Osweiler can become one of the all-time greats himself. Even better than Peyton Manning was, in terms of winning Super Bowls (not losing a couple of them).

 

[ROO]

PM me links to the Broncos forums. I could use a good laugh.

Sorry it took me awhile to get back to you. Had to work tonight. Will send you a PM shortly.

The Denver fans' thoughts range from:

"Brock is the worst QB ever, don't let your giraffe head hit the door on the way out" to "Texans gonna win the next 4 super bowls with Brock"

"Elway is a football genius god and planned this all along" to "Elway sucks and winning a Lombardi was not worth mortgaging the future"

"Weak ass Kubiak sucks" to "Kubiak and Wade are the best coaches ever"

And then the fans start throwing shots at each other like "I'm sorry you got a sore ***** from the sand in your vagina" and such. Hilarious!

Ya know, come to think of it, there isn't really anything different between TexansTalk and the denver fan forums except for the teams under discussion!

 

[Texecutioner]

Sorry it took me awhile to get back to you. Had to work tonight. Will send you a PM shortly.

The Denver fans' thoughts range from:

"Brock is the worst QB ever, don't let your giraffe head hit the door on the way out" to "Texans gonna win the next 4 super bowls with Brock"

"Elway is a football genius god and planned this all along" to "Elway sucks and winning a Lombardi was not worth mortgaging the future"

"Weak ass Kubiak sucks" to "Kubiak and Wade are the best coaches ever"

And then the fans start throwing shots at each other like "I'm sorry you got a sore ***** from the sand in your vagina" and such. Hilarious!

Ya know, come to think of it, there isn't really anything different between TexansTalk and the denver fan forums except for the teams under discussion!

Sounds like this board. Lol!

 

[Bulls on Parade]

Broncos just got a bit lucky drafting Von Miller, signing DeMarcus Ware because the Cowboys sh*t the bed with their salary cap (Jerry Jones was forced to cut him), and then signing Peyton Manning four off-seasons ago when the Texans had the chance to do so before they did but we stuck with Schaub instead.

Freakin' Peyton Manning wanted to come to Houston. He told all his friends and family that Houston was the place to be. Somebody leaked it to Bob Allen on ABC 13 who broke that story four off-seasons ago. It was where his father briefly played ( Houston Oilers), only 350 miles West of his hometown New Orleans. Once Bob McNair said we were sticking with Schaub but was flattered that Peyton had interest in coming here, then Peyton signed with the Broncos a week later.

They won the Super Bowl with our old coaching staff. Same one that led us to a franchise best 12-4 season with, cough cough, Matt Schaub at quarterback.

LOL, John Elway gets too much credit for some luck finding the right moves in the draft and free agency. The Broncos sucked more than us that allowed them to draft Von Miller. We went 6-10 and ended up falling down in draft and landed J.J. Watt, who I think is better than Von Miller.

Hell, if Rick Smith had the same luck he'd be glorified the same way John Elway is. It's not rocket science, winning football games, it's all luck sometimes. Luck in the draft, luck in free agency, etc... etc... Everything is a gamble.

I think Rick Smith has done a greater job than John Elway this off-season. And the reason is because we were lucky enough to have the big cap space.

All this hoopla about how great a GM John Elway is makes me sick. Dude got really lucky. The Texans had the chance to pull off similar moves but didn't. It's all about opportunities.

At least now we have the right quarterback. Screw John Elway! And Broncos fans can cry and moan. Jeez, how lucky they are. They should feel very blessed and be thankful for their recent success. If I were a Broncos fan I'd realize how lucky they are and be happy.

Now Denver fans will know what it's like to have a crappy quarterback with a defense that becomes weaker and weaker, after that great first year. That is Wade Phillips' calling card. And Denver is losing a ton of defensive talent in free agency, as well as offensive talent.

Gary Kubiak and Wade Phillips will probably be fired by Denver within three or four years form now. Maybe two... Although winning Super Bowl 50 likely bought them an extra year.

But John Elway is a great GM. Sure, he is. But luck has been his best friend. Rick Smith could become a great GM too. All it takes is that same luck. So far this off-season, I'd give Rick Smith an A+ and John Elway an F grade.

 

[Brandon420tx]

No matter which QB the Texans ended up with, or how we acquired that QB. There would be people pissing and moaning about it. Such is the nature of this board

 

[Wolf]

Exactly. It's a lot to pay. What would it have cost to switch with a team in the top 6? Surely not several future #1's.
Looks like we're stuck with Oz now, unless we get lucky and he fails our physical.

Well look at the rg3 trade.. Redskins at 6moved up 3 spots and it cost them 3 #1s and and no 2 ..if memory serves..we are sitting at 22. How much would it cost for us to get into top 5 ESP with teams knowing that we have Hoyer asa starter and it. Doesn't help that McNair was on record saying that they have to get a QB

Supply is limited and demand went up when your cards are all laid on the table

 

[michaelm]

Some of you act like you guys just started watching the NFL or something here. You think Elway of all people is going to let a guy walk who he firmly believes should be his franchise QB? Elway has been the best GM in the league since he came in 2011, and I hate Elway. Hated him as a player and I hate his ass as a GM, but the dude is damn good at building teams. He built a team up so well that even Kubiak couldn't screw up the team he built this season. He has poached the right players from NE to make their team weaker as well. He has made a ton of shrewd moves since becoming a GM. He knows Osweiller very well. He knew exactly what he had in him. If he was willing to let him walk and go to another team knowing good well he wouldn't have a replacement at QB when his team should still be in the window of being able to win a SB, then that is not exactly a good sign.

Now I didn't say Osweiller was terrible or that he'll be a bust. For all I know he might play well. He looked good here and there, but he also looked very average at times as well. Drop this whole Elway wanted him thing though. If Elway wanted him, ELWAY WOULD HAVE MADE SURE HE GOT HIM. Brock seems like a QB that would do well in Kubiak's system as well. I'm pretty surprised that Kubiak didn't convince him knowing they were going to have to find a QB in a year where it is a poor draft class of QB's.

I know one thing for dead certain.
John Elway thinks Osweiler is worth at least $30 million guaranteed.
He's already come out and stated that Colin Kaepernick was always plan B.
Osweiler was plan A, and Elway let plan A slip away.


I think it's become crystal clear that Osweiler was just not going to remain in Denver regardless of how much they wanted him.

 

[Wolf]

No matter which QB the Texans ended up with, or how we acquired that QB. There would be people pissing and moaning about it. Such is the nature of this board

Yep, I guess if we tanked the season. The discussion would all be about which rookie QB is the one that is great and which one will bust :Joker:

 

[Texecutioner]

Broncos just got a bit lucky drafting Von Miller, signing DeMarcus Ware because the Cowboys sh*t the bed with their salary cap (Jerry Jones was forced to cut him), and then signing Peyton Manning four off-seasons ago when the Texans had the chance to do so before they did but we stuck with Schaub instead.

They got lucky by drafting Miller? No, they did their homework and picked the best pass rusher who was an all out beast. It wasn't rocket science.

LOL, John Elway gets too much credit for some luck finding the right moves in the draft and free agency. The Broncos sucked more than us that allowed them to draft Von Miller. We went 6-10 and ended up falling down in draft and landed J.J. Watt, who I think is better than Von Miller.

Elway didn't get lucky at all. This is nothing but sour grapes from a fan that has obviously been losing his whole life to say something so ridiculous. Elway made that team a playoff team with Tim Tebow and picked a great coach in Fox, and had the balls to get Manning. He stacked the receiving core and weakened the NE Patriots by poaching some of their players at the right time which was huge for them. he stockpiled talent every off season, and built one of the best rosters I've ever seen on offense and defense in separate years. Only a complete jealous and bitter little fan would say that Elway doesn't deserve credit and would call him lucky after going to a SB with the best offense and losing, and then two years later going back with one of the best defenses ever.

Hell, if Rick Smith had the same luck he'd be glorified the same way John Elway is. It's not rocket science, winning football games, it's all luck sometimes. Luck in the draft, luck in free agency, etc... etc... Everything is a gamble.

He did. He had even more luck. He got a #1 draft pick where he ignored the QB position and picked one of the worst busts in NFL history in CLowney and the rest of that draft was dreadful.

I think Rick Smith has done a greater job than John Elway this off-season. And the reason is because we were lucky enough to have the big cap space.

It's called success. Gee, what a shocker. A team wins the SB and has a ton of pro bowlers who are in contract seasons and they leave for big pay days that their current team can't afford anymore. What a shocker there. Putting Smith and Elway in the same sentence is hilarious. Smith has been the GM of one of the worst franchises in the NFL for over 10 years now.

 

[Bulls on Parade]

Sounds like this board. Lol!

Houston Texans fans are real passionate and we speak the truth. We know what it's like to be down and we appreciate the few times we can become a damn good football team.

Broncos fans are whiny little brats and pretenders that don't appreciate jack. Spoiled fan base that wins a Super Bowl or competes for a Super Bowl every other decade. They don't know how lucky and blessed they have been.

Broncos fans are more bothersome than Cowboys fans to me. At least you can have a beer and enjoy talking about football with Cowboys fans. We share the same frustrations as of late.

Broncos just won the Super Bowl and their fans are pissed off and upset. Really? I mean, really? Give me a break!!!!

 

[Bulls on Parade]

Texecutioner, I've been watching Von Miller since his DeSota, Texas high school days. I knew back in high school he was going to become a beast in the NFL one day. Even at Texas A&M I felt he was the best player coming out of his draft class. The Broncos sucked and drafted him #2 overall. Not that hard is it? Did their homework? I didn't do my homework and I saw his talent way back in high school.

I actually wanted the Texans to tank that 2010 season, when it was apparent we were going to miss the playoffs, to draft Von Miller. I'm glad we went 6-10 and drafted J.J. Watt at pick #11 instead. Thank goodness!!! Although I'd have still been happy with Von Miller as a Texan.

John Elway was in a great position to draft a superstar pass rusher with the second pick in the draft. A can't miss talent. He was also fortunate to sign a free agent Hall of Fame quarterback (who wanted to come to Houston) and a Hall of Fame pass rusher, who the Cowboys had to release for salary cap purposes.

I'd like to see what Elway can do as a GM when he doesn't have everything so perfectly set up for him to succeed. This off-season the Broncos are losing a ton of talent. We're about to see how good John Elway is as a GM over the next few years.

And let's see what Gary Kubiak and Wade Phillips can do... Ole Phillips better be nervous. After the first season of having great defenses (every team he has coached) their defense becomes awful after that. A little bit worse every year until he's fired. Denver fans, they can see what we went through. No good quarterback, a head coach and defensive coordinator which bore you once they can't lean on all of that talent.

 

[xtruroyaltyx]

I like what someone mentioned on the radio earlier about Brock being in a great age range.

Old enough to give the vets legit hope at playoff success and still young enough to grow with our core young guys

 

[Bulls on Parade]

"Texecutioner, post: 2586759, member:He did. He had even more luck. He got a #1 draft pick where he ignored the QB position and picked one of the worst busts in NFL history in CLowney and the rest of that draft was dreadful.

That's a fair point. Although I would also call it "unlucky" for us (when I say us I mean Texans fans in general and not just Rick Smith), how Jadeveon Clowney has been so injury-prone over his first two seasons in the league.

Just devastating injuries for Clowney, one after another it's been. Some people even wondered if he could ever come back to what he once was athletically after that microfracture knee surgery.

In fact, when people talk about Jadeveon Clowney, it scares me when all that is said is medical talk. I want to discuss the great player he can possibly become.

He's barely played in two seasons. Even when he made strides in year two (three sacks combined in two straight games, including bringing Tom Brady down twice in one game), I still consider him a rookie.

He's played 17 games in two seasons so it's sort of like he just finished his rookie season going into year three.

I feel bad Jadeveon Clowney couldn't even experience that playoff game. But I'm hopeful going into this third season we'll start to see a beast worthy of that #1 overall selection.

Ironically, I was more excited about Von Miller entering his draft than I was over Jadeveon Clowney entering his draft. I hadn't watched Clowney in high school. I only knew Clowney from his amazing "YouTube" highlights.

Had Von Miller been in the same draft class as Clowney, I would have been preaching for us to draft Von Miller 24-7. That being said, I still have hope that Jadeveon Clowney can become an All Pro pass rusher in this league. He's a beast tackler and run stuffer (backfield penetration) when he's healthy. Which hasn't been often. The last time Clowney was 100 % may have been four years ago.

I know Clowney reads this board. You're a bust, Clowney!
LOL, may as well fire him up. Not that he needs the motivation.

But yeah, let's kick some butt in year three. Clowney could still become great. No offense to you Mr. Clowney. I hadn't followed you since high school like I did with Von Miller. That' all.

Jadeveon Clowney is what the young kids like to call, "A YouTube sensation." Clowney became famous for that hit he had against Michigan in the bowl game. That put him on the map as a "Wow me type of player." I honestly had no idea who Clowney was prior to that. I don't follow South Carolina Football or even high school athletics in that area. Like I do with Texas high school sports.

Von Miller, this kid was a great football player at every level he has played in. DeSota, Texas A&M and now Denver. His recent Super Bowl MVP is no surprise to me. I could have predicted that seven years ago, probably been called crazy, and been comfortable with my opinion back then.

 

[Brisco_County]

I checked out the Broncos forum to gauge their reaction. I wouldn't call it a meltdown, but they are understandably upset that their QB of the future left them twisting in the breeze.

One of their posters offered some reasonable insights on why Osweiler's decision to walk was justified, but his point about Kubiak's system may have been the true catalyst.

There's no reason to be mad at Brock, coming from someone who didn't like him much

It's easy when you're a Broncos fan to think the obvious best option for Brock is to lead your team. I don't think most QBs in his shoes would pick Denver either. Here's the reality:

Environment. The QB expectations in Denver are ABSURD. Period. Post Elway, fans have ripped into every QB, including one of the all-time greats in Manning. Much more likely than not, Brock would just be another clay pigeon. Unless you are a surefire HOF playing at Pro Bowl levels, this isn't a healthy environment for you. By the way, they benched you for playing a bad half.

Pay. We seem to be very understanding about Malik or Danny leaving for better pay, but treat Brock differently. It's not just a little difference. It's a $10M+ difference over the contract, and much of it in guaranteed money. It's not just the monetary impact; it shows how much BIll O'Brien believes you're "the guy". On the other hand, Elway publically doesn't think you're worth a big contract.

System. Gary Kubiak's offense is very conservative and limiting for most QBs. He has essentially tried to import his Houston system and it didn't do any favors for any of the many QBs who previously ran it (RBs on the other hand...).

Legacy. Brock could be a great player yet he'll never be as revered in Denver as Elway, or be remembered like Peyton. Houston is a QB away from contention and he could very well be the star QB they've never had. He could be B.M.O.C. there in a way he could never be here. He already has a ring and too many pieces are changing in Denver to be assured that we'll even top the Chiefs next year.

So I don't understand any ire for him. He probably made the more sensible choice for most people in his shoes.

Link

While he's flat out wrong about Kubiak's system doing no favors for past QB's (Schaub 2009 and 2010), he is correct that it can be confining and therefore not a fit for many.

Then another Broncos fan stated that Osweiler wasn't fond of Kubiak's system, so I did some googling:

Report: Osweiler prefers Bill O'Brien's offense over Gary Kubiak's offense

According to ESPN's Ed Werder, Denver Broncos free agent quarterback Brock Osweiler reportedly is not a fan of Head Coach Gary Kubiak's offensive system. According to Werder, Osweiler believes he is a better fit in Houston Texan's head coach Bill O'Brien's offensive system than Gary Kubiak's offense.

Link

That was reported on March 7th, two days before the signing.

First of all, am I the only one here who didn't know about this Werder report?

Second, that may explain why the Broncos didn't make a counter offer to keep Osweiler, and why Elway made the comment about building a team only with players who want to be Broncos.

Without a doubt, Kubiak informed Elway of Osweiler's lacking fondness for the system. When I read that Osweiler was allowed the freedom to audible in his first game against the Bears, I envision a push-pull scenario between QB and coach.

When Osweiler walked onto the field two weeks ago at Soldier Field against the Chicago Bears, making his first start since the 2011 Las Vegas Bowl, he lacked experience but not responsibility. He held the freedom to audible. And did so on multiple occasions. During the upset of the New England Patriots on Sunday, before running back C.J. Anderson produced the walkoff touchdown run, Osweiler checked to the toss sweep.

These examples aren't outliers, but examples of the trust coach Gary Kubiak possesses in the 25-year-old.

Almost everyone in this forum watched Kubiak's system for eight years, so can anyone here remember a time during its full implementation (meaning no exceptions like Keenum) that the QB was allowed to audible? This freedom was given to Osweiler during his first game after he studied it for four years. That doesn't seem like a player committed to a system with a proven history.

Considering this, why wouldn't the Broncos cap their own counter offer when the QB wasn't a WCO enthusiast in the first place?

 

[Bulls on Parade]

I like what someone mentioned on the radio earlier about Brock being in a great age range.

Old enough to give the vets legit hope at playoff success and still young enough to grow with our core young guys

Bottom line, the Houston Texans future is bright. I love our current team as constructed. We still have holes but what is it now, like $20 million in cap space still left? With the draft still to come. We're in excellent shape at the moment.

Maybe now people can lay off all of that "Rick Smith is a bad GM" talk. It's time to have some faith in our guys and go win some football games.

Call me crazy, but I think the Houston Texans will win more games than the defending Super Bowl champion Denver Broncos in 2016. We will also beat the Broncos on the road when we play them this season.

I think the Houston Texans are one of the better teams in the AFC entering 2016 but I know it doesn't mean much. We have to prove it on the field.

One thing is a fact: Super Bowl 51 in February is right here in our house. Only a couple miles away from where I live. I can walk on over to NRG Stadium, and boy let me tell you, I'd go crazy if it's the Texans playing in that game!!!!!!

I'll have a ticket, believe me. I plan to go anyways but still.

 

[JB]

Almost everyone in this forum watched Kubiak's system for eight years, so can anyone here remember a time during its full implementation (meaning no exceptions like Keenum) that the QB was allowed to audible? This freedom was given to Osweiler during his first game after he studied it for four years. That doesn't seem like a player committed to a system with a proven history.

Considering this, why wouldn't the Broncos cap their own counter offer when the QB wasn't a WCO enthusiast in the first place?

Excuse me but this is very confusing. Wasn't it Kubiak's first year there? How could BO have studied it for 4 years? Being able to audible means you're not committed? Maybe I'm misreading something

 

[infantrycak]

While he's flat out wrong about Kubiak's system doing no favors for past QB's (Schaub 2009 and 2010), he is correct that it can be confining and therefore not a fit for many.

Actually it was a straight up silly statement - Griese, Plummer, Schaub and Flacco all had their best seasons with him.

Second, that may explain why the Broncos didn't make a counter offer to keep Osweiler, and why Elway made the comment about building a team only with players who want to be Broncos.

They did counter - went from $15 to $16 per. The Broncos wouldn't match. They expected a hometown discount and frankly Elway looked a little crappy with his comment.

When I read that Osweiler was allowed the freedom to audible in his first game against the Bears, I envision a push-pull scenario between QB and coach.

Almost everyone in this forum watched Kubiak's system for eight years, so can anyone here remember a time during its full implementation (meaning no exceptions like Keenum) that the QB was allowed to audible?

Common misconception. Kubiak always has audibles available but they are options (either 2 run, 1 pass or 2 pass, 1 run) run out of the same formation. So they aren't obvious and fans think they don't exist. Now maybe because Kubiak was trying to meet in the middle with Peyton they put some more options in and Oz got to use those.

 

[Showtime100]

No matter which QB the Texans ended up with, or how we acquired that QB. There would be people pissing and moaning about it. Such is the nature of this board

Amen. I seriously can't think of a scenario that is better in the REAL world than what the Texans did yesterday. So, we got Osweiler. Ok. But let's think for a minute.

He was with the Broncos who just lost Manning (and I think Osweiler was meant to be his heir-apparent). Osweiler might have been hurt by being replaced, things have been said to this nature. But the Broncos, rightly IMO, got Manning in there to either win a SB or not.

Osweiler feels slighted, taken for granted, or whatever...

Free agent Osweiler is the best FA out there at QB. The Texans have needed a good (or better) QB since Schaub hurt his foot. Denver has little wiggle room at the cap. The Texans realize it and out-spend Denver for the best FA out there and in the process sign a top-notch RB and some great OL players. PLUS we lost zero draft picks.

.........................and some are pissed. Some say we over-spent. In what world?

Come on naysayers. Just WTF DOES it take to make you happy in March? A Super Bowl capitulation by all other teams?

 

[Brisco_County]

Common misconception. Kubiak always has audibles available but they are options (either 2 run, 1 pass or 2 pass, 1 run) run out of the same formation. So they aren't obvious and fans think they don't exist. Now maybe because Kubiak was trying to meet in the middle with Peyton they put some more options in and Oz got to use those.

I remember reading that in the Chris Myers interview. But I think the difference here is that the adjustment at the line is built in and conveyed by a simple QB signal, but it doesn't make adjustments like a traditional audible. I interpreted the article to mean that he was calling a traditional audible.

 

[Brisco_County]

Excuse me but this is very confusing. Wasn't it Kubiak's first year there? How could BO have studied it for 4 years? Being able to audible means you're not committed? Maybe I'm misreading something

No, you're right. I forgot about Fox. And Kubiak in Baltimore. And my Alzheimer meds.

But my point was that Osweiler wasn't running the system in it's classic form (assuming he's calling a traditional audible and not motioning out of a pass play) because it didn't suit him, which lends to the report by Werder claiming as much.

 

[Say Watt]

Regardless if it's a draft pick or cash against the cap getting a QB (or any player for that matter) costs a resource. This is a resource we could spare atm.

And I never said he was a seasoned guy like anyone, don't know why you thought it would be cute to make that argument. But those 28 quarters, and the years he's worked out in a realistic pro style offense are more than Lynch has probably played in Madden in his whole life, and clearly more than what he's actually stepped on a field and worked on or executed. No clue he can chew gum and call an NFL play at the same time as of right now.

But ya, you go ahead and use a valuable 1st round resource that impacts our ability to improve in some area on that guy versus a guy who's contributed to NFL wins already. Okey doke.

That's my point exactly. Cash was a resource we could spare at the moment. It was certainly something we could afford to give up more than draft picks as well.

I'm seriously baffled by those unhappy with this deal. I've been pissed off at the Texans for years, and it's only my loyalty to this city that has kept me from switching teams. But no matter how you spin it, this was a great move that showed the Texans are trying to make changes to win football games.

The $37M guaranteed is what needs to be looked at. We get two years to look at this guy. Nothing precludes us from still drafting a QB if one is on the board at a time we feel comfortable. We have two years to find out if Brock Osweiler is a franchise QB, or we cut bait. And since we didn't trade draft picks, the much more valuable resource, then whose to say one of those picks doesn't become a game changing star or key part of our team like JJ, Hopkins, Duane Brown became.

Lastly, people have to stop looking at the $72M. I know it's hard for us regular people, but this is the going rate for the position. Your star QBs will be getting $100M+ going forward. This was not a superstar QB contract like it would have been a few years ago. This is now mid-range or QB with big potential type money. It's just the reality that people can either accept or choose to stop watching sports.