Also, would like to answer the question I asked?
Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
Mayock re Texans look at QBs in the Combine
- Thread starter CloakNNNdagger
- Start date
Also, would like to answer the question I asked?
I thought I did. lol
You said you thought Savage has improved in playing preseason games. Uh, ok.
I'm curious what you think Savage offers that these kids don't ...
Yeah I feel good enough about both Goff and Wentz to risk the draftpicks for a QB I'm high on. But their not my picks. If the Texans think the same way about the players that I do then yes I hope they do what it takes to move up. If they feel that another qb is close enough and can get him in the 2nd then I hope they take Elliot in the first or Spriggs or any of other player available that they have ranked the highest.
Still a long way to go before we
have to make that decisionExactly what I think is going to happen and NO I wont feel like they fubard again.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
It's a really cute target.
Wtf people? We need a QB.
Savage is already on the roster. I don't have to give up anything to get him.
My logic is pretty straightforward. Savage had the tools to be an NFL starting QB when he was drafted. It was widely acknowledged that he would need some time to develop. He has had the time to develop, so let's see what we have before we go all in on a completely unproven entity at the NFL level.
I like some of the QB's in this draft, but not enough to give up what it would take to get them at 1.1. Two first round picks and a 3rd round pick are my limit. That moves the Texans to 1.6 and they can then get the best QB that Cleveland didn't draft. Tennessee isn't going to give the Texans a "hometown" discount. I'd expect to see the opposite from a division rival.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
We need a good QB.
I hope Savage is that guy, but I wouldn't bet on it.
I don't think Hoyer or Yates can be that guy, and I doubt Weeden is that guy. I also don't think Kaepernick or Bradford is that guy.
Cousins? Maybe.
From what I've seen so far, I like Goff and Wentz. I've only seen one of Paxton Lynch's games and I wasn't impressed, but I don't recall which game that was. Cook's and Hackenburg's inaccuracy bothers me.
Personally, I'm for trading up into the top 10 to try to nab Goff or Wentz. I just don't think it's possible. I'd like to see it, though. I'd be fine with drafting Lynch at 22.
But I think this is the decision that's going to make or break O'Brien's coaching tenure.
I hope Savage is that guy, but I wouldn't bet on it.
I don't think Hoyer or Yates can be that guy, and I doubt Weeden is that guy. I also don't think Kaepernick or Bradford is that guy.
Cousins? Maybe.
From what I've seen so far, I like Goff and Wentz. I've only seen one of Paxton Lynch's games and I wasn't impressed, but I don't recall which game that was. Cook's and Hackenburg's inaccuracy bothers me.
Personally, I'm for trading up into the top 10 to try to nab Goff or Wentz. I just don't think it's possible. I'd like to see it, though. I'd be fine with drafting Lynch at 22.
But I think this is the decision that's going to make or break O'Brien's coaching tenure.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
These other guys have the tools to be an NFL starting QB when they are drafted as well. I guess I don't see the "logic" in a 4th round draft pick who has ONE game of real, it-actually-counts, not-in-the-classroom experience under center with live bullets being more NFL ready and less of a risk than a consensus Top 10 pick.
If your whole point is that it would cost too much to get where they need to get in order to snag one of these guys, then I would agree with you. But the Savage being a better option thing than a legit 1st round pick because he has sat in this system for two years? Isn't that the same BS that OB tried to sell us with Hoyer and Mallett??? I'm pretty sure it is.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
From your lips to God's ears...
My point is that it costs more than I want to pay to get into the top 3 and Savage has been in OB's system for two full years. The difference being that Hoyer and Mallett were in BB's system much more than OB's. Savage should be much more prepared to start an NFL game for the Texans than any rookie ever could be on opening day 2016.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
I agree that it costs more than I want to pay in order to get where we need to be in the draft.
I don't agree that Savage should be more prepared to start an NFL game than any rookie ever could be. Third string 4th round pick QB with one game of experience and a lot of games inactive/IR does not equate to being prepared more than any rookie ever could be. But I understand you have a bias and our perspective will never align on this one.
I was just curious what tools you think Savage offered that Goff or Wentz don't. I answered your question when you asked one.
Obviously you don't have to answer, especially if you don't have one. No biggie.
I guess I missed the question. The only thing that I like that Savage has that Goff and Wentz doesn't have is NFL experience and the price tag. Savage knows how to prepare, knows how to study film, take care of his body and be a good team mate. lol
I also think he has a good skill set. He's got all of the physical attributes that Goff and Wentz has and I thought he showed much better pocket presence in preseason games.
As I've stated, I don't mind trading up to get one of them if it's cheaper than RGIII's price tage. 2 #1's and #3 or #4 should be enough to get whichever one Cleveland doesn't draft.
bah007
Hall of Fame
How many snaps does Savage have in a real live NFL game? Not a preseason game. A real game that matters.
Because if that number equates to NFL experience, and NFL experience is your most important factor for selecting players, why would you even bother with the draft at all? Just trade all your picks every single year to other teams in return for players that have NFL experience.
Because if that number equates to NFL experience, and NFL experience is your most important factor for selecting players, why would you even bother with the draft at all? Just trade all your picks every single year to other teams in return for players that have NFL experience.
His 'NFL experience' ground could be made up in just about no time.
As for price tag, you gotta consider that far more often than not ... you get what you pay for. Savage's price tag wasn't just that low because he was school hopping. It was because he was very limited. This is evident. Those kids would cost more because they are not. They're learning curve would be almost flat relative to his.
So, he has a stronger arm ... and nothing else. Ok then.
Nice hyperbole.
Do you even bother to read my posts or are you just trolling? If you don't think two years experience on an NFL team makes a player more ready to play in an NFL game than a rookie who's never done it then you don't read much about how virtually every player comments on just how different the NFL game is from the NCAA game and that they have to learn how to study film, learn how to practice. learn the playbook, etc. Savage knows the playbook better than any QB in the draft will know it by this time next year.
PapaL
Loose Screw
Nice hyperbole.
Do you even bother to read my posts or are you just trolling? If you don't think two years experience on an NFL team makes a player more ready to play in an NFL game than a rookie who's never done it then you don't read much about how virtually every player comments on just how different the NFL game is from the NCAA game and that they have to learn how to study film, learn how to practice. learn the playbook, etc. Savage knows the playbook better than any QB in the draft will know it by this time next year.
Plus he's at least seen and played in NFL speed. Traditionally that has been the biggest adjustment.
True, but there's no evidence that he's adjusted to it.
The biggest thing is that he's been in this "system" (if there truly is one) for two years. That's enough time for him to have the terminology & concepts down cold. But that doesn't preclude a smart kid, or even Hackenberg with his headstart, from being pretty close. & whatever gap there is you could probably fix with a mini Denny's arm band.
Still, I think we're picking ninny's here. Doc said he's on board to give up enough picks to trade up to the #6 spot. So what are we arguing? That he doesn't want to trade up to the #3?
Nice hyperbole.
Do you even bother to read my posts or are you just trolling? If you don't think two years experience on an NFL team makes a player more ready to play in an NFL game than a rookie who's never done it then you don't read much about how virtually every player comments on just how different the NFL game is from the NCAA game and that they have to learn how to study film, learn how to practice. learn the playbook, etc. Savage knows the playbook better than any QB in the draft will know it by this time next year.
How do you figure their learning curves would be relatively flat? Especially with Wentz? Just a gut feeling? Savage has already gotten past the learning curve and knows the playbook and the terminology. Steep learning curve for any player.
I would love it if we could get Goff or Wentz at #6. I'd be pissed if we traded up to #6 for any other QB.
I said flat relative to Savage's. Speed of the game will be there for them to adjust to, just like it is for every player. But with the tools in their bag and the concepts they've already played with I think they'll make up ground on that curve quicker than a guy like Savage could have done from his get go. That's relative. His clipboard time and preseason games aren't that far out in front. They really aren't for guys with the skillsets of those guys.
I've seen Wentz's tape broken down, seen the anticipation throws both of them have made, seen Goff on the whiteboard, and I feel comfortable that Savage's 'NFL experience' lead would be marginalized rather quickly.
So playing at North Dakota State prepares a player for the NFL? I've seen Wentz's tape broken down, and he's a good looking QB, but he's also considered somewhat of a project at the NFL level. Potentially higher ceiling than Goff, but nothing's guaranteed. I'm a serial listener of Sirius NFL channel and really like Pat Kirwin and Jim Miller. They compare Wentz to Bortles.
I haven't seen Goff on the whiteboard, so I dunno. I'm reading articles saying that Cleveland likes Wentz more than Goff, so a trade up to #6 would likely nab him. Playing indoors for at least half of his home games would probably ease concerns about small hands?
bah007
Hall of Fame
Nice hyperbole.
Do you even bother to read my posts or are you just trolling? If you don't think two years experience on an NFL team makes a player more ready to play in an NFL game than a rookie who's never done it then you don't read much about how virtually every player comments on just how different the NFL game is from the NCAA game and that they have to learn how to study film, learn how to practice. learn the playbook, etc. Savage knows the playbook better than any QB in the draft will know it by this time next year.
I don't deny that gap exists between college and the pros. But you exaggerate that gap as if the time spent to make the jump is the same for every single player and it is not. Some handle the speed easier than others. Some grasp the concepts more quickly than others. Some were better coached and so are better prepared for what lies ahead. You place far too much emphasis on the differences between the two levels but totally ignore the similarities and how some players can be more adept at handling the transition.
How much did this NFL experience help Mallett? Or Hoyer? They have far more NFL experience than Savage and thus must be much better prepared for the NFL game, am I right? They studied the playbook. They had seen NFL speed. Why would you have any confidence at all that some kid like Savage, who hasn't even had a cup of coffee in the league yet, could possibly be any better of a NFL QB than they were? Maybe, just maybe, there are other factors that can make an impact in the development of a player.
You couldn't have known this but I coach high school football for a living. Your post is thick with irony in that I deal with these things all the time and am far more aware of them than you will ever be. We talk all the time with our seniors that are going to be playing at the next level about the difficulties that lie ahead and how big the jump is, how it seems so much easier when they are on this side of it, but once they are on the other side they will wish they had been more prepared. We talk about how much they still need to prepare both physically and mentally and remind them that every player that they will be playing against is preparing just as hard or harder.
Playing with concepts that require reading defenses from back to front and making anticipatory decisions like Wentz was asked to do, and done successfully, prepares a guy for the next level. Why wouldn't it? That's part of why he was seen as a leader at the Senior Bowl, amongst all those big bad FBS guys.
I'd do backflips off my roof if we moved to get Goff at 6. Romo has smaller hands than Goff.
I thought the answer was rather obvious: I think Savage is more talented than Hoyer and Mallett and has his crap together more than Mallett. I like the growth that I've seen in preseason games last year. Anywho, that's why I have confidence in him. Obviously, you disagree with me.
I generally dislike rookie QB's starting right away. If the kid earned the starting role in camp, ala Wilson, fine. Just don't throw him out there because of where he was drafted. With that in mind, even if the Texans did trade up for a QB in the 1st, I would still expect to see Savage starting week one.
And Romo is known for fumbling. LOL
Wow.
It's kind of funny that everyone is all in for a couple of guys that Mayock ranks as "good NFL starter with Pro Bowl potential".
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000635418/article/mike-mayocks-2016-nfl-draft-position-rankings
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000635418/article/mike-mayocks-2016-nfl-draft-position-rankings
Well, he is. Last year he only had one. And only played in 4 games. Ha!
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RomoTo00.htm
Did anyone ever label Savage as a good NFL starter with pro bowl potential? Even after 2 years watching film? I don't think so
bah007
Hall of Fame
So time spent watching Savage play meaningless preseason games matters but time spent watching a college QB play meaningful games doesn't matter?
I also think that Savage is more talented than Hoyer (lol) and Mallett (never thought much of him). But he has shown zilch so far. And if I think that there is a better option out there (I do) that is within our reach (I would explore the possibility) I am going to go after it. Because "better than Hoyer" might make the fans happy for a few games, but that isn't going to be enough to get it done in the long run.
I want THE guy, not a guy. I believe that Goff is that guy. There are limits to how far I would go to get him but I would go pretty dang far, because based on what I have seen from him I feel very confident in his chances.
I do not believe in starting any player, regardless of position, who has not earned the job fair and square. And I have never made that argument. I come from the Pete Carroll school of thought that believes competition in practice makes players better, because if they know that spots need to be earned and won't just be handed out the good ones will always strive to keep improving themselves. Even if we moved heaven and earth to move up and get Goff I would still expect him to have to compete for the starting job. And if Savage beat him fair and square then Savage would start, regardless of what investment I've made in the other players.
My wow is my response that that's all you've taken from everything that's been said so far.
But, fumbles in each of their last four full seasons ...
Russell Wilson - 38
Ben Roethlesberger - 33
Eli Manning - 30
Philip Rivers - 30
Tony Romo - 26
Tom Brady - 24
Drew Brees - 24
Peyton Manning - 22
... he's in pretty ok company. So I'm not concerned with Goff's hands.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Me too.
3rded
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Even if you go with Savage, that can't be all you do at the position. I believe the Texans, by not addressing this for several years now, are backed into a corner where they have to go damn near all out at QB. If Savage works out, fine. If not, the rookie gets thrown into the fire week 5, 6, 8 or whatever. If Savage works out, you've got a guy (the rookie) you can trade in a year or two to get draft picks back that you used to get him. If Savage doesn't work out, you don't have to wait for the '17 draft to look at another option there. Let's get ahead of it for a change.
Point is, however high anyone may be on Savage, you can't go into this season throwing all of your eggs in that basket.
Point is, however high anyone may be on Savage, you can't go into this season throwing all of your eggs in that basket.
I agree with this. The only contention I've had about drafting a QB in this draft is the price tag.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Well, QBs are pricey so you're going to have to pay to get them.
Shishkabob
All Pro
yea im about as high on Savage as anyone, but even I think we need a QB in rounds 1 or 2
I don't know about that. I look at a guy like Hogan & I think I can win with him. He's got the physical tools. If I sit down with him, talk football & walk away thinking he's smart enough to do what I need him to do, I'd be thrilled to get him in the 6th.
Same thing with Driskel, or Vernon Adams. If I'm Sean Peyton, I'm drooling over Jeff Driskel, but I'm not going to take him in the 2nd if I don't feel I have to.
We need to add another prospect but to me the rankings we're seeing are just fluff.
Number19
Hall of Fame
No one has suggested this course of action. The discussion revolves around the question of what round to draft a QB and at what cost it would take to move up in the first.
Shishkabob
All Pro
Both Hogans and Driskels arm strengths came into question at the combine. to hit the deep passes Hogan was having to put everything he could muster into it, and it caused his throws to be erratic. I read another scouts note that said Driskels passes would lose velocity on the back end and start to nose dive.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
May not be a pipe dream:
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2016/2/28/11129218/nfl-draft-2016-rumors-chargers-trade-pick
real question is are the Texans ready to gamble?
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2016/2/28/11129218/nfl-draft-2016-rumors-chargers-trade-pick
real question is are the Texans ready to gamble?
Watch their game tape, or even their highlights. They're strong enough.