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This move will tell me all I need to know about McNair

Grams said:
Kubiak got the benefit of the doubt because we all know what a crappy team he inherited.
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Kubiak "got the benefit of the doubt" because we knew he was saddled with a joke at the most important position on the field. Still, he made that guy look better than he ever did before.

Steelbtexan, wasn't one of those that gave Kubiak that benefit of the doubt.

I don't remember, but I doubt he agreed with the Schaub trade, even though Schaub's performance lived up to the cost from day 1.

If Kubiak passed on the 2014 QB class essentially for Brian Hoyer, Steelbtexan would be spouting his usual vinegar. Even worse.

Everybody knew what Brian Hoyer was & how it would play out. Everybody but the man who should have. We're 9-7 in spite of O'Brien. Had Hoyer not got hurt we'd have finished the season 6-10, because Mallett won one game.
 
thunderkyss said:
Kubiak "got the benefit of the doubt" because we knew he was saddled with a joke at the most important position on the field. Still, he made that guy look better than he ever did before.

Steelbtexan, wasn't one of those that gave Kubiak that benefit of the doubt.

I don't remember, but I doubt he agreed with the Schaub trade, even though Schaub's performance lived up to the cost from day 1.

If Kubiak passed on the 2014 QB class essentially for Brian Hoyer, Steelbtexan would be spouting his usual vinegar. Even worse.

Everybody knew what Brian Hoyer was & how it would play out. Everybody but the man who should have. We're 9-7 in spite of O'Brien. Had Hoyer not got hurt we'd have finished the season 6-10, because Mallett won one game.
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Wrong, I liked the Schaub trade at the time and still do.

I gave Kubiak the benefit of the doubt until with the easiest schedule possible the best that the Texans could do with Schaub playing at a top 5 level the best that Kubiak's Texans could do was 9-7. The Texans 1st winning season that was trumpeted as the begining of something great was about to happen. How did Kubiak celebrate that next offseason? By opting to have an elective surgery during the scouting combine. The results of that decision (Letting Rick Smith do interviews/procure talent) lead to a 6-10 2010 season.

Where Kubiak lost me was the Monday night Tacks/VY 20-17 loss. The crowd was pumped the team was ready and Kubiak played the odds until he gave the game to the Tacks and I had to listen toall of the VY fanboys speak of the HOF'er VY.

Then Kubiak got on the podium (Finger tapping and all) talking about how the kids gave it their all. Well how about growing a pair and help the kids out. Give me a HC like Arians/Belichick/Carrol, one who may lose but goes down taking chances. See: Arians throwing the ball with 1:53 in the game. It didn't work but he was willing to go for it.

BTW, was I wrong? Kubiak wasn't the guy to lead the Texans to a SB. Probably wont be winning a SB in Denver either.
 
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steelbtexan said:
Wrong, I liked the Schaub trade at the time and still do.

I gave Kubiak the benefit of the doubt until with the easiest schedule possible the best that the Texans could do with Schaub playing at a top 5 level the best that Kubiak's Texans could do was 9-7. The Texans 1st winning season that was trumpeted as the begining of something great was about to happen. How did Kubiak celebrate that next offseason? By opting to have an elective surgery during the scouting combine. The results of that decision (Letting Rick Smith do interviews/procure talent) lead to a 6-10 2010 season.

Where Kubiak lost me was the Monday night Tacks/VY 20-17 loss. The crowd was pumped the team was ready and Kubiak played the odds until he gave the game to the Tacks and I had to listen toall of the VY fanboys speak of the HOF'er VY.

Then Kubiak got on the podium (Finger tapping and all) talking about how the kids gave it their all. Well how about growing a pair and help the kids out. Give me a HC like Arians/Belichick/Carrol, one who may lose but goes down taking chances. See: Arians throwing the ball with 1:53 in the game. It didn't work but he was willing to go for it.

BTW, was I wrong? Kubiak wasn't the guy to lead the Texans to a SB. Probably wont be winning a SB in Denver either.
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I think you put too much into this... don't you think he reviewed all the interviews and workouts? Otherwise I pretty much agree
 
JB said:
I think you put too much into this... don't you think he reviewed all the interviews and workouts? Otherwise I pretty much agree
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Well we will have to disagree on this.

Do you see Belichick/Carroll/Harbaugh's missing the combine?

Nope, that tells you the combine is important. Just not to Kubiak.

The one on one interviews are very important. You put them together with the tape to get a truer picture of players you're considering drafting. You cant do this if you dont bother showing up to the combine. 6-10 said it all.
 
steelbtexan said:
Well we will have to disagree on this.

Do you see Belichick/Carroll/Harbaugh's missing the combine?

Nope, that tells you the combine is important. Just not to Kubiak.
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Perhaps he thought good sleep might lead to a sharper mind, I just don't know. I do know sleep apnea can be very dangerous and maybe his dr. told him now's the time? Again I don't know
 
steelbtexan said:
Well we will have to disagree on this.

Do you see Belichick/Carroll/Harbaugh's missing the combine?

Nope, that tells you the combine is important. Just not to Kubiak.

The one on one interviews are very important. You put them together with the tape to get a truer picture of players you're considering drafting. You cant do this if you dont bother showing up to the combine. 6-10 said it all.
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You act like he got breast implants. "Elective surgery." It was the OFF-season. There were 40 people employed by the Texans to cover it.

In the draft forum you mock people who put too much significance in 'running in shorts' and then you come here and act like it is some critical moment which has to be witnessed personally.
 
JB said:
Perhaps he thought good sleep might lead to a sharper mind, I just don't know. I do know sleep apnea can be very dangerous and maybe his dr. told him now's the time? Again I don't know
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If the surgery was a must, you would think He would've had it done as soon as the season was over. After all it wasn't like they were in the playoffs.
 
steelbtexan said:
Well we will have to disagree on this.


The one on one interviews are very important. You put them together with the tape to get a truer picture of players you're considering drafting. You cant do this if you dont bother showing up to the combine. 6-10 said it all.
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Do you really think the Texans didn't tape all the interviews and Kubiak didn't review them? Or that he wouldn't have scripted the questions he wanted each prospect to answer? They knew who they would interview, they have a limited amount available
 
steelbtexan said:
If the surgery was a must, you would think He would've had it done as soon as the season was over. After all it wasn't like they were in the playoffs.
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Other than emergency or birth, I've yet to see where you can schedule a surgery at your own convenience. And from end of season until combine is what, a month and a half?
 
infantrycak said:
You act like he got breast implants. "Elective surgery." It was the OFF-season. There were 40 people employed by the Texans to cover it.

In the draft forum you mock people who put too much significance in 'running in shorts' and then you come here and act like it is some critical moment which has to be witnessed personally.
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I've never said this. I happen to think the combine is very important. It gives a good org a chance for a look at medicals, to see if the talent level matches the on the field production and if it doesn't you can find out if there was circumstances that lead to the player not reaching their potential.

You also get a chance to get a feel for players that have character issues. You cant do any of this if you aren't there and it's worse when you make the choice not to be there.
 
JB said:
Do you really think the Texans didn't tape all the interviews and Kubiak didn't review them? Or that he wouldn't have scripted the questions he wanted each prospect to answer? They knew who they would interview, they have a limited amount available
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In person is much different than if your asking the questions in person. But you know this. I just love the defenders.
 
steelbtexan said:
In person is much different than if your asking the questions in person. But you know this. I just love the defenders.
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I just love debating with you :D

Yeah it's different if you're the one asking instead of say, kyle shanahan. But not drastically so. It's a deal, but not a big deal. It's just one of the things that you have focused on and you hate to let go
 
JB said:
Other than emergency or birth, I've yet to see where you can schedule a surgery at your own convenience. And from end of season until combine is what, a month and a half?
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Yes you can tell your doctor and in this case the Texans dr.'s that you cant have surgery on these dates and they will work around your schedule. This happens everyday in the real world.

What would be even more troubling is if Kubiak didn't know the combine dates and scheduled the surgery. But with past Texans history it wouldn't surprise me.
 
JB said:
I just love debating with you :D

Yeah it's different if you're the one asking instead of say, kyle shanahan. But not drastically so. It's a deal, but not a big deal. It's just one of the things that you have focused on and you hate to let go
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I'm not hating to let it go, I just think it shows lack of commitment on Kubiak's part. Especially for a young HC.
 
infantrycak said:
Despite every other report being he almost works himself to death.

But go with your narrative. Kubiak just doesn't care.
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Big difference between working hard and working smart. That may be the problem, Kubiak either 1. doesn't make good decisions (Likely) 2. Isn't very smart (Very myopic) 3. A combination of both. (Very likely)
 
steelbtexan said:
Big difference between working hard and working smart. That may be the problem, Kubiak either 1. doesn't make good decisions (Likely) 2. Isn't very smart (Very myopic) 3. A combination of both. (Very likely)
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Gotta love your open mind... there is no possibility that you just don't have all the info that went into making that decision. Your mind was like a steel trap ever since you read the report that he wasn't there... Is that where SteelB comes from? j/k on the last
 
steelbtexan said:
Care to expound? I'm not the one who missed the combine.

Dont bother, you dont think missing the combine is a big deal. I do
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I do think it's a deal. Not the back breaker huge deal that led to a 6-10 season that you do, but it's a deal. I would have liked to hear what his reasoning was for surgery at that time and why he missed, but it's years in the past and outside any influence I could have exerted at the time. I've moved on
 
JB said:
Gotta love your open mind... there is no possibility that you just don't have all the info that went into making that decision. Your mind was like a steel trap ever since you read the report that he wasn't there... Is that where SteelB comes from? j/k on the last
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Or he could've scheduled the surgery on the wrong week. (More likely)
 
JB said:
Gotta love your open mind... there is no possibility that you just don't have all the info that went into making that decision. Your mind was like a steel trap ever since you read the report that he wasn't there... Is that where SteelB comes from? j/k on the last
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Or he could've scheduled the surgery on the wrong week. (More likely)
 
JB said:
I do think it's a deal. Not the back breaker huge deal that led to a 6-10 season that you do, but it's a deal. I would have liked to hear what his reasoning was for surgery at that time and why he missed, but it's years in the past and outside any influence I could have exerted at the time. I've moved on
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I've moved on also. But I didn't forget,

So what was the biggest factor in 6-10 IYO. To me it started with the combine and mushroomed. It's a mindset. Rick Smith still has this mindset. IMHO
 
steelbtexan said:
I've moved on also. But I didn't forget,

So what was the biggest factor in 6-10 IYO. To me it started with the combine and mushroomed. It's a mindset. Rick Smith still has this mindset. IMHO
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I think it was a combination of Kyle Shanahan and Alex Gibbs leaving, Frank Bush and wasn't that the year they went with a very young secondary and Pollard? Defense was pretty bad iirc.

I don't think his missing the combine had a lot to do with it... in hindsight, it wasn't a bad draft
 
steelbtexan said:
Dont bother, you dont think missing the combine is a big deal. I do
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Yeah... I'm with them. I don't know the details, but I know there are a lot of things going on we don't know about. Kubiak felt his presence would be missed more at those other times than at the combine... not a big deal to me.

Benefit of the doubt may mean different things to different people. After his first season I knew he wasn't as ready as I had hoped. I knew there would be a learning curve. But I definitely saw a change taking place. Change for the better.

After 2009 I've always admitted the change was slower than expected.

Two years of Bill O'Brien, again I realize he hasn't gotten off to as fast a start as I'd have liked. However, where Kubiak had to settle on Richard Smith before realizing his guy Frank Buh wasn't going to cut it. O'b settled on Fitz/Mallet & had to be bailed out by Yates & Weeden and I only hope he realizes his guy,Hoyer, ain't going to get it done.

I never doubted, until the end, that winning was the #1 thing on Kubiak's mind. & I consider it no small task to drag everyone in the organization to start thinking that way.

I've never got the feeling that winning is at the top of O'Brien's list.

I'm just making up numbers here, but I feel when Kubiak got here there were 3 out of 100 people who felt & acted as if the Texans can win. When he left, I feel that number was close to 90 out of 100.

Two years later, I feel the number is probably closer to 70.
 
thunderkyss said:
Yeah... I'm with them. I don't know the details, but I know there are a lot of things going on we don't know about. Kubiak felt his presence would be missed more at those other times than at the combine... not a big deal to me.

Benefit of the doubt may mean different things to different people. After his first season I knew he wasn't as ready as I had hoped. I knew there would be a learning curve. But I definitely saw a change taking place. Change for the better.

After 2009 I've always admitted the change was slower than expected.

Two years of Bill O'Brien, again I realize he hasn't gotten off to as fast a start as I'd have liked. However, where Kubiak had to settle on Richard Smith before realizing his guy Frank Buh wasn't going to cut it. O'b settled on Fitz/Mallet & had to be bailed out by Yates & Weeden and I only hope he realizes his guy,Hoyer, ain't going to get it done.

I never doubted, until the end, that winning was the #1 thing on Kubiak's mind. & I consider it no small task to drag everyone in the organization to start thinking that way.

I've never got the feeling that winning is at the top of O'Brien's list.

I'm just making up numbers here, but I feel when Kubiak got here there were 3 out of 100 people who felt & acted as if the Texans can win. When he left, I feel that number was close to 90 out of 100.

Two years later, I feel the number is probably closer to 70.
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We have to disagre, I think winning is #1 on BOB's list, the same as it was with Kubiak. I dont think that winning is #1 on the McNair's/Rick's list and therein lies the problem. After a billion $$$$ who can question this? Kubiak just made his 1st SB as a HC.
 
steelbtexan said:
Yep, anybody could've been DC and the Broncos would've been in the SB.
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I agree. Because Kubiak took a bold move in sitting Manning for the first time in his career, allowing his body and head to get better while letting an untested Osweiler go 5-2 and stay ahead of the hottest team in the league the second half of the season to win the division and HFA in the playoffs. That was some great coaching there on Kubiak's part.
 
sandman said:
I agree. Because Kubiak took a bold move in sitting Manning for the first time in his career, allowing his body and head to get better while letting an untested Osweiler go 5-2 and stay ahead of the hottest team in the league the second half of the season to win the division and HFA in the playoffs. That was some great coaching there on Kubiak's part.
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Yep, that Kubiak is a HOF HC.

Hell, Kubiak didn't even want Manning on the team and tried to get Elway to pawn Manning off on the Texans. (Pure genius)

Or Manning was injured?
 
steelbtexan said:
Yep, that Kubiak is a HOF HC.

Or Manning was injured?
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Of course Manning was injured. You think he has never been injured in his 18 seasons? Never missed a single game outside of the neck surgery lost season. Nobody pulls Manning from a game. Or sits him for 6 games. Manning wasn't happy with it and Kubiak caught flak for it, but he still did it.

http://espn.go.com/blog/baltimore-r...rprised-how-gary-kubiak-got-to-the-super-bowl

"While much of the hoopla will be focused on Peyton Manning and the Broncos' defense, the heart of Kubiak's success will always be his signature stretch run game. Since Week 12, Denver's C.J. Anderson topped all running backs with a 5.9-yard-per-carry average. In the playoffs, the Broncos ran the ball 44.8 percent of the time and kept it on the ground on 30 of 65 plays in the AFC Championship Game (46 percent) against the New England Patriots."

Yep, Kubiak is doing his best Jim Caldwell impersonation. Just standing on the sideline with a non-working headset and a blank stare. Wade and Manning doing all the heavy lifting. You keep telling yourself that.
 
sandman said:
Of course Manning was injured. You think he has never been injured in his 18 seasons? Never missed a single game outside of the neck surgery lost season. Nobody pulls Manning from a game. Or sits him for 6 games. Manning wasn't happy with it and Kubiak caught flak for it, but he still did it.

http://espn.go.com/blog/baltimore-r...rprised-how-gary-kubiak-got-to-the-super-bowl

"While much of the hoopla will be focused on Peyton Manning and the Broncos' defense, the heart of Kubiak's success will always be his signature stretch run game. Since Week 12, Denver's C.J. Anderson topped all running backs with a 5.9-yard-per-carry average. In the playoffs, the Broncos ran the ball 44.8 percent of the time and kept it on the ground on 30 of 65 plays in the AFC Championship Game (46 percent) against the New England Patriots."

Yep, Kubiak is doing his best Jim Caldwell impersonation. Just standing on the sideline with a non-working headset and a blank stare. Wade and Manning doing all the heavy lifting. You keep telling yourself that.
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Whatever dude.

We rarely agree on anything, this is another case.

15 yrs and everything is rosy
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm happy for Kubiak's success and particularly Wade's success.
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They've got a great GM now. I feel certain that our problem in Houston is at GM, and we will never amount to much as long as we have that boot licker in such an important and crucial position.

And McNair is not changing a damn thing, so I blame him now, too.
 
Double Barrel said:
They've got a great GM now. I feel certain that our problem in Houston is at GM, and we will never amount to much as long as we have that boot licker in such an important and crucial position.

And McNair is not changing a damn thing, so I blame him now, too.
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I've been saying this for yrs and many have called me a hater, questioned my fanhood for this stance.

Why wont McNair make the change? Could it be that Smith/Rootes etc.... are helping McNair accomplish his goals?
 
steelbtexan said:
I've been saying this for yrs and many have called me a hater, questioned my fanhood for this stance.

Why wont McNair make the change? Could it be that Smith/Rootes etc.... are helping McNair accomplish his goals?
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My personal take is that McNair is a stubborn man. I think he believes that his boardroom mentality can succeed in the NFL, and he seems to believe that true accountability is selectively applicable.

He had admitted in the past that he is scared of change. It is very traumatic for him. So to make a bold decision to change the status of his right hand yes man and godfather of his grandchildren and his son's BFF is not in his apparent nature. Status quo and Einstein's insanity at play here, and it makes me more and more ambivalent with each mediocre season.
 
Double Barrel said:
My personal take is that McNair is a stubborn man. I think he believes that his boardroom mentality can succeed in the NFL, and he seems to believe that true accountability is selectively applicable.

He had admitted in the past that he is scared of change. It is very traumatic for him. So to make a bold decision to change the status of his right hand yes man and godfather of his grandchildren and his son's BFF is not in his apparent nature. Status quo and Einstein's insanity at play here, and it makes me more and more ambivalent with each mediocre season.
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Yep, gonna take something pretty drastic... like Cal and Ricky falling out because Smith was seeing Cal's daughter on the side and pics proved it.

hmmm, anyway we can make that happen? Anyone know how to doctor a screenshot of a supposed convo between Ricky and her?
 
Double Barrel said:
They've got a great GM now. I feel certain that our problem in Houston is at GM, and we will never amount to much as long as we have that boot licker in such an important and crucial position.

And McNair is not changing a damn thing, so I blame him now, too.
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I've been saying this for yrs and many have called me a hater, questioned my fanhood for this stance.

Why wont McNair make the change? Could it be that Smith/Rootes etc.... are helping McNair accomplish his goals?
 
steelbtexan said:
Yep, anybody could've been DC and the Broncos would've been in the SB.
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I don't agree with that, the personnel in Demver suits Wade's attacking man scheme. You've pointed out one of the main reasons as to why in your previous posts, speed, particularly at linebacker. We didn't/don't have speed at LB and that hurt us in his scheme. That's why TEs and backs destroyed us in the flats, on option and crossing routes. We still have that issue now.

I'm of the opinion that if we can get some speed at middle linebacker and some range at safety, our defense will improve dramatically against the type of offenses that typically burn us. I'm talking about spread oriented teams that create mismatches as a primary way of attacking the defense.
 
steelbtexan said:
Yep, anybody could've been DC and the Broncos would've been in the SB.
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John Fox and Jack Del Rio couldn't even get a divisional round win with essentially the same starters. Plus, they had a considerably higher ranked offense going for them than the one Wade had.
 
Grams said:
Wade always does fantastic in his first year as DC no matter what team.
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Yeah, he does. This might be his best first season defense of his career. I'm very impressed with the way they kept Brady out of a groove. And I really look forward to seeing how Wade's defense does with an explosive Panther's offense.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I don't agree with that, the personnel in Demver suits Wade's attacking man scheme. You've pointed out one of the main reasons as to why in your previous posts, speed, particularly at linebacker. We didn't/don't have speed at LB and that hurt us in his scheme. That's why TEs and backs destroyed us in the flats, on option and crossing routes. We still have that issue now.

I'm of the opinion that if we can get some speed at middle linebacker and some range at safety, our defense will improve dramatically against the type of offenses that typically burn us. I'm talking about spread oriented teams that create mismatches as a primary way of attacking the defense.
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Apparently people dont get my sarcasm.
 
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