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Texian's Post College Season, Pre Combine Mock;

Texian

Texian

Hall of Fame
RD 1. Jake Coker, QB, BAMA - Why? Because Carson Wentz will be long gone. Don't be surprised if Coker turns out to be best QB in this draft.

RD 2. Jason Spriggs, OT, Indiana - Why? Because Duane Brown has less than 50% chance to successfully return from his type of injury.

RD 3. Joshua Garnett, OG, Stanford - Why? Because Texan OL is a weak link and needs to get better, run blocking, get stronger.

RD 4. Jonathan Williams, RB, Arkansas -Why? Arian Foster suffered an Achilles injury.

RD 5. Halapoulivaati Vaitai, OT, TCU - Why? Because Derek Newton didn't play very well.

What I think is likely to happen, the Texans will put together an expensive package (ala Nix) to trade up in RD 1 to draft Christian Hackenberg.
 
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Coker will not sniff the first round. I like the kid i think with some seasoning he could be good, but what last night showed me is he isnt quite ready for the pro game. He threw 2 td passes, but to a wide open TE with no one within 10 yards of him. He had some nice throws into tight windows, but there were very few. He still holds the ball to long, doesnt climb the pocket at all instead retreats into the pass rush. He just look inexperienced which i would expect. He doesnt trust his eyes and throws receivers open instead waits for them to be open, that is big when projecting someone at the next level as you have to throw with anticipation in the pros. If the game was to fast for him last night imagine it in college when everyone is faster and defenses are disguised better
 
Hmmm, long gone, well you've been consistant I'll give you that!

I would expect Kiffen to return to the NFL as new OC maybe he can convince another franchise starved for a QB but no thanks for O'Brian. We don't need another quote "game manager"

I do like your 2nd pick, but on one hand you have a QB going higher than anyone expects then on the other a close to top tier tackle sliding to end of round two. Seems contradictory to me in regards to talent evaluation department.

Another guard from Pac 12? Well X has looked better towards end of his second year. Have no issue upgrading OL early & often.

RB on 3rd day? Good value I suppose, like to find one on 2nd day!

Can't see a third OL. Texans have a lot of other needs as well. Lot depends I suppose if they choose to keep Brooks? Would like to see Texans add another safety of nose somewhere, both areas lack size, speed & playmaking ability not to mention we need to find a returner!
 
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If you could use a scale of Shishkabob to Texian my feeling on Coker would probably be right smack in the middle. I like him, he's got obvious assets, and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see him succeed at the next level. Arm talent, decent athleticism, good head for the game. To temper that though he's still quite inexperienced and it shows, and I think he's going to miss Saban's guiding hand post-Alabama. His progressions need work and his speed to diagnose defenses is still a mystery. The latter stuff aren't even a real knocks on the kid as much as ringing question marks about how his development will shake out. The plus side to his development though is that he appears by all indication to be a very composed and mature kid who'll grind the right way and carry his lessons learned rather than be intimidated by bigger obstacles.

So ya, the first round seems a hair early for him, but it's not entirely incompetent or anything either especially considering the hamstrung spot we pick in. I'd like to have a better idea of where the rest of the league sees him before committing to him that early, but if it turns out that there's no way he lasts till our second pick then taking him at 22 would start to sound good and I'd come out of the draft feeling at least like there's a plan in place for this offense for a change.
 
Shishkabob said:
He threw 2 td passes, but to a wide open TE with no one within 10 yards of him.
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Does he not get credit for finding an open man? Imagine the uproar if he hadn't seen him and/or threw an incompletion. Agree it was an easy throw and catch but he didn't miss and those passes were on the money.

I respect all of your opinions. My response is this was the National Championship game last night, against one of the very best formidable defenses in college football and the best D that Coker and BAMA had faced this year. Yes Coker, Kiffen and the entire BAMA offense were caught off guard early on by the domination by Clemson's front seven. Clemson allowing BAMA less than 4 secs to throw ball had the entire BAMA offense frustrated, particularly the OL. Kiffen calling deep pass plays only complicated the situation. In the face of all the adversity Coker did not turn the ball over. However Bama, Kiffen and Coker regrouped in the second half and made changes that dramatically improved their 2nd half performance. This is what good QBs and teams can do. If Coker had continued his poor play in the second half and BAMA had lost then there is a better argument for Coker not being a very good QB, BUT HE DIDN'T. He won and is a National Champion. After the first half Coker only got better and better as the game wore on. It also helped that Special Teams play was Extra Special too. The week before Coker was darn near perfect on the second biggest stage of his life against another very good football team.

Great defenses have a tendency to make good QBs look not so good but good QBs can still find a way to win the game.
 
Coker impressed me in his two games during the playoffs but I'm still not seeing 1st round. He showed a lot of poise and moxie in those games but there are still some pretty clear flaws. Now many of those flaws can be fixed with more experience as a lot of them (as Mollywhopper pointed out) are mental issues that typically improve with more playing time. However, the guy only has 14 career starts under his belt and played a game manager role in just about all of those games. I have a hard time seeing a team use a 1st on a guy with that kind of resume. I think it's much more likely that he's a 2nd/3rd round choice.
 
Texian said:
Does he not get credit for finding an open man? Imagine the uproar if he hadn't seen him and/or threw an incompletion. Agree it was an easy throw and catch but he didn't miss and those passes were on the money.

I respect all of your opinions. My response is this was the National Championship game last night, against one of the very best formidable defenses in college football and the best D that Coker and BAMA had faced this year. Yes Coker, Kiffen and the entire BAMA offense were caught off guard early on by the domination by Clemson's front seven. Clemson allowing BAMA less than 4 secs to throw ball had the entire BAMA offense frustrated, particularly the OL. Kiffen calling deep pass plays only complicated the situation. In the face of all the adversity Coker did not turn the ball over. However Bama, Kiffen and Coker regrouped in the second half and made changes that dramatically improved their 2nd half performance. This is what good QBs and teams can do. If Coker had continued his poor play in the second half and BAMA had lost then there is a better argument for Coker not being a very good QB, BUT HE DIDN'T. He won and is a National Champion. After the first half Coker only got better and better as the game wore on. It also helped that Special Teams play was Extra Special too. The week before Coker was darn near perfect on the second biggest stage of his life against another very good football team.

Great defenses have a tendency to make good QBs look not so good but good QBs can still find a way to win the game.
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I just think he is to raw. While i agree calling a bunch of deep passes with no check down might have been a bad idea, he cost himself at least 3 of the 5 sacks. There were 2 of the sacks where if he throws with anticipation he had a guy come open, if you are going to hit deep passes in the nfl you have to anticipate the throws. Im not saying he cant do it, because he did later in the game on the 3rd and long sideline throw, but he needs to do it more consistently to be a first round qb. Also on his sacks if he would just stand tall and climb the pocket he would be himself another second or two instead he tried retreating back out as many young inexperienced qbs do and got sacked. I give him credit for playing a better second half, but i would bet he will not be a first round qb come draft day
 
beerlover said:
Hmmm, long gone, well you've been consistant I'll give you that!

I would expect Kiffen to return to the NFL as new OC maybe he can convince another franchise starved for a QB but no thanks for O'Brian. We don't need another quote "game manager"

I do like your 2nd pick, but on one hand you have a QB going higher than anyone expects then on the other a close to top tier tackle sliding to end of round two. Seems contradictory to me in regards to talent evaluation department.

Another guard from Pac 12? Well X has looked better towards end of his second year. Have no issue upgrading OL early & often.

RB on 3rd day? Good value I suppose, like to find one on 2nd day!

Can't see a third OL. Texans have a lot of other needs as well. Lot depends I suppose if they choose to keep Brooks? Would like to see Texans add another safety of nose somewhere, both areas lack size, speed & playmaking ability not to mention we need to find a returner!
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long gone? Well yes, yes I am consistent and Mike Mayock seemed to express similar thinking this week, Wentz could be 1st QB drafted.

In my defense, this time two years ago I was a lonesome voice saying that Blake Bortles would be a first RD draft pick and I wouldn't be surprised if he was the first QB drafted. The monkey see, monkey do media draftniks were all in for Teddy while saying Bortles was a day 2 or day 3 pick.

On average general consensus has Spriggs rated as the #8 to #10 OT. On average there are 4-5 OT usually taken in RD 1. I don't do my final OL evals until after the Combine. OL 225 reps, 10 yd split and drills are difference makers for me, ie: if Spriggs lifts less than 20 reps I'll take him off the day 2 board.

If Williams had played this season he would've likely been a day 2 pick. Still has to pass medicals to remain in my mock. his 2014 was very good.

For the first time in a while Texans have enough cap room to fill 2 or 3 of their biggest holes/needs. That's what FA is for.
 
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Shishkabob said:
I just think he is to raw. While i agree calling a bunch of deep passes with no check down might have been a bad idea, he cost himself at least 3 of the 5 sacks. There were 2 of the sacks where if he throws with anticipation he had a guy come open, if you are going to hit deep passes in the nfl you have to anticipate the throws. Im not saying he cant do it, because he did later in the game on the 3rd and long sideline throw, but he needs to do it more consistently to be a first round qb. Also on his sacks if he would just stand tall and climb the pocket he would be himself another second or two instead he tried retreating back out as many young inexperienced qbs do and got sacked. I give him credit for playing a better second half, but i would bet he will not be a first round qb come draft day
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He did just that in the SEC Championship game and Semi Final Cotton Bowl game and he did it very well.

Don't know if you noticed but in the first half there was much confusion with the WRs and RBs getting set and in the right position. True freshman Ridley appeared completely overwhelmed. When Clemson was in zone, instead of sitting down in the hole Ridley ran himself in to coverage. All of this wasn't helpful to Coker.

Agree on climbing the pocket, one of the hardest things for a QB to learn and trust.
 
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You know why the scouting community didn't agree with your or Jacksonville assessment of Bortles (not like they hit the nail on the head with Gabbert either). It's because of his release. It affects both accuracy & velocity. Wentz has a much better release with Pro Velocity, that's why I signed off on him not because someone else says so. He struggles with accuracy because his footwork. That can be fixed, not quite as easy with release.

Goff is easily the most pro ready, top QB prospect, in this draft. How bout we wager on who goes before the other & double that if he is the first QB off the board? You can put your money on your mouth, I accept PayPal :money:
 
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beerlover said:
You know why the scouting community didn't agree with your or Jacksonville assessment of Bortles (not like they hit the nail on the head with Gabbert either). It's because of his release. It affects both accuracy & velocity. Wentz has a much better release with Pro Velocity, that's why I signed off on him not because someone else says so. He struggles with accuracy because his footwork. That can be fixed, not quite as easy with release.
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Well this is certainly one opinion, not sure I agree.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
I think it's smart to get some OL depth when Jones and Brooks are free agents . That and Brown's injury make the OL iffy .
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You have to think we will at least re-sign Brooks. He's one of the better OG's in the league. I mean, we re-signed Derek Newton for 5 freaking years! Pretty sure we can extend our best OL too.

However, we do have Rick Smith as our GM so we could be looking at another Glover Quin situation here.
 
We apparently like a lot of the same players. I like all those guys. If you like Coker enough to use a 1st you use a 1st. I'm not there at this point.

On a scale of Shishkabob to Texian I'm probably a WolverineFan on Coker. He checks all the physical boxes. Good size, good athlete, good arm, accurate enough. But he's a baby on the mental side. And he's even greener than his low amount of starts would make it seem, fifth year player or not. He was probably the most protected QB in the country when you account for the scheme he played in and the talent around him.

He's a solid meh for me right now. I get the allure. I see it. I don't hate him. In fact, I like him. But I just haven't seen enough to say that I love him. And for a 1st round pick I better love him.
 
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bah007 said:
We apparently like a lot of the same players. I like all those guys. If you like Coker enough to use a 1st you use a 1st. I'm not there at this point.

On a scale of Shishkabob to Texian I'm probably a WolverineFan on Coker. He checks all the physical boxes. Good size, good athlete, good arm, accurate enough. But he's a baby on the mental side. And he's even greener than his low amount of starts would make it seem, fifth year player or not. He was probably the most protected QB in the country when you account for the scheme he played in and the talent around him.

He's a solid meh for me right now. I get the allure. I see it. I don't hate him. In fact, I like him. But I just haven't seen enough to say that I love him. And for a 1st round pick I better love him.
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lol everyone is making it seem like im really down on Coker, i am not just right now i have a 3rd round grade on him, and that could improve through the draft process, but i dont think you should ever raise someones grade multiple rounds from what they do in shorts and tshirts. If the Texans like him a lot and feel he wont make it to their 3rd round pick then im fine with them trading up for him or if they are really high on him just using their second round pick. I think its safe to say i have him at the same level as Hogan, maybe slightly higher now
 
Shishkabob said:
lol everyone is making it seem like im really down on Coker, i am not just right now i have a 3rd round grade on him, and that could improve through the draft process, but i dont think you should ever raise someones grade multiple rounds from what they do in shorts and tshirts. If the Texans like him a lot and feel he wont make it to their 3rd round pick then im fine with them trading up for him or if they are really high on him just using their second round pick. I think its safe to say i have him at the same level as Hogan, maybe slightly higher now
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My post wasn't a shot at you. I'm closer to your perspective on Coker than I am to Texian's.

I'm just acknowledging that I understand what he sees. I don't see it quite the same, but I understand it. Most places I've seen have between 12-16 QBs in this draft with a draftable grade. I only have 8 QBs in this draft that I would even touch. Coker is in that group. But not in the first round.
 
I don't think he is. I don't see ANY chance that Hack slips past the Texans in the first round. He's not rated there today, but let's wait until after the combine and everything is done. His measurables coupled with BoB's familiarity are a big deal.
 
Shishkabob said:
I think you are stretching youre hate for OB a little much, do you really think he is dumb enough to think that Hack will be a top 20 pick?
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If it's true that it was OB's idea to dump Fitzpatrick for Hoyer then yea I think he's dumb enough to think a lot of things. He has done nothing to instill confidence in his ability to evaluate QB talent.
 
TexansFTW said:
I don't think he is. I don't see ANY chance that Hack slips past the Texans in the first round. He's not rated there today, but let's wait until after the combine and everything is done. His measurables coupled with BoB's familiarity are a big deal.
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Why does everyone assume familiarity is a positive? Maybe Hack is dull, or a sarcastic prick, or a million other bad things OB might know from familiarity.
 
beerlover said:
Goff is easily the most pro ready, top QB prospect, in this draft. How bout we wager on who goes before the other & double that if he is the first QB off the board? You can put your money on your mouth, I accept PayPal :money:
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Sorry, no bet. I wouldn't be surprised to see Goff go early, he's definitely the media favorite. Goff is this year's Teddy Bridgewater. To many QB needy teams picking before #22 for Goff to last long. I don't see a deja vu repeat of Aaron Rodgers. No discount double check! I'm hoping all those QB needy teams will overlook Coker although I'm not sure that will be the case either. I do disagree that Goff is the most pro ready prospect. Playing in Sonny Dykes spread puts Goff behind all those QBs who played in a Pro Style O.

If only a hair separated Jamies Winston and Coker in becoming the FSU starting QB and Winston went on to become the Heisman Trophy Winner and #1 pick in the draft, logical thinking doesn't suggest that Coker is a 3rd, 4th or 5th RD pick.
 
Texian said:
Sorry, no bet. I wouldn't be surprised to see Goff go early, he's definitely the media favorite. Goff is this year's Teddy Bridgewater. To many QB needy teams picking before #22 for Goff to last long. I don't see a deja vu repeat of Aaron Rodgers. No discount double check! I'm hoping all those QB needy teams will overlook Coker although I'm not sure that will be the case either. I do disagree that Goff is the most pro ready prospect. Playing in Sonny Dykes spread puts Goff behind all those QBs who played in a Pro Style O.

If only a hair separated Jamies Winston and Coker in becoming the FSU starting QB and Winston went on to become the Heisman Trophy Winner and #1 pick in the draft, logical thinking doesn't suggest that Coker is a 3rd, 4th or 5th RD pick.
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That is also coach talk, if Winston got hurt or fell on his face you still want Coker to have confidence right? Coker also got beat out by Blake Simms when everyone assumed he had the talent to easily win that battle. He played so poorly early on he got benched this season. I credit the kid coming back with fire and competing and earning his spot, but he is still incredibly inexperience for a first round pick. Its almost as absurd as those saying Cardele Jones wouldve been a first rounder last year. Big, physical tools are great and all, but it takes a lot of in game reps to play high at the college level, and a lot more to even be pro ready.
 
Texian said:
For starters we have a definite pattern of behavior in Mallett and Hoyer. Hack praised OB when he announced, didn't mention Franklin.
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That might also be because Hack knows his only chance to go high is OB so he is calling out to him
 
Shishkabob said:
I think you are stretching youre hate for OB a little much, do you really think he is dumb enough to think that Hack will be a top 20 pick?
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I can't speak to hate and dumb. Do I think OB would draft Hack with the 22nd pick. yes. Do I think he would trade up to do so? Yes. Why? OB has shown in past drafts he likes to trade up, see Nix and Strong. OB's only option now is Hoyer. After the playoff game there is a feeling helplessness and desperation. Anxious and afraid someone could draft Hack before #22? YES! Why? see Belichick drafting Jimmy Garoppolo. Human behavior has a way of repeating it's self.
 
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Shishkabob said:
That is also coach talk, if Winston got hurt or fell on his face you still want Coker to have confidence right? Coker also got beat out by Blake Simms when everyone assumed he had the talent to easily win that battle. He played so poorly early on he got benched this season. I credit the kid coming back with fire and competing and earning his spot, but he is still incredibly inexperience for a first round pick. Its almost as absurd as those saying Cardele Jones wouldve been a first rounder last year. Big, physical tools are great and all, but it takes a lot of in game reps to play high at the college level, and a lot more to even be pro ready.
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I never evaluate a QB on how he will perform in his first or second year. I'm more interested in year 10 and/or year 15. If you watch the Jimbo video (see Coker thread), first thing out of his mouth and was very adamant and illustrated that is this IS NOT Coach Talk. So you're wrong on this account. The reason Coker lost out to Sims is because Sims had 3 years in Bama system when Coker arrived. Yes Sims had a better understanding of the offense. If you know anything about Saban you'd know this is a BIG deal.
 
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Texian said:
Sorry, no bet. I wouldn't be surprised to see Goff go early, he's definitely the media favorite. Goff is this year's Teddy Bridgewater. To many QB needy teams picking before #22 for Goff to last long. I don't see a deja vu repeat of Aaron Rodgers. No discount double check! I'm hoping all those QB needy teams will overlook Coker although I'm not sure that will be the case either. I do disagree that Goff is the most pro ready prospect. Playing in Sonny Dykes spread puts Goff behind all those QBs who played in a Pro Style O.

If only a hair separated Jamies Winston and Coker in becoming the FSU starting QB and Winston went on to become the Heisman Trophy Winner and #1 pick in the draft, logical thinking doesn't suggest that Coker is a 3rd, 4th or 5th RD pick.
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That's pretty flawed logic, only in respect to TB as consensus top QB on this board like Goff is this year but they're completely different cats. Goff is a franchise QB worthy of the top selection while Teddy is a guy not worthy of the top selection but someone you could get later either by trading down in first or trading up from the 2nd who you hope could be that franchise guy. Big difference.

But I do think that Wentz could be that guy unless you do something unsavory with Jerry Jones & convince him to roll with Wentz @ #4.
 
infantrycak said:
Why does everyone assume familiarity is a positive? Maybe Hack is dull, or a sarcastic prick, or a million other bad things OB might know from familiarity.
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Hack's going away speech to Penn State where he thanked BoB first and foremost while completely ignoring his current coach make me believe they have a relationship outside of Penn State football.

If you want me to give you articles, video tapes, or photos of them together to prove this point I can not and will not.

Since BoB has been tenured as the head coach of the Houston Texans I've seen and believe that familiarity matters to him. One could also say he's been waiting on Hack and that could have played into ignoring real QB candidates in the past.

EDIT: Just read that Texian basically said the same thing I said in this post. I should read and get caught up before posting next time. Lesson learned.
 
beerlover said:
That's pretty flawed logic, only in respect to TB as consensus top QB on this board like Goff is this year but they're completely different cats. Goff is a franchise QB worthy of the top selection while Teddy is a guy not worthy of the top selection but someone you could get later either by trading down in first or trading up from the 2nd who you hope could be that franchise guy. Big difference.

But I do think that Wentz could be that guy unless you do something unsavory with Jerry Jones & convince him to roll with Wentz @ #4.
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Flawed logic for you OK, for me, not so much. As for Teddy, you're guilty for revising history. At this stage in the game two years ago Teddy was the Cat's Meow, the Bees Knees, The Franchise Savior. My guess is the first QB drafted goes at #2 to Cleveland unless Tenn trades their #1 pick, which I believe is a very distinct possibility.
 
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beerlover said:
That's pretty flawed logic, only in respect to TB as consensus top QB on this board like Goff is this year but they're completely different cats. Goff is a franchise QB worthy of the top selection while Teddy is a guy not worthy of the top selection but someone you could get later either by trading down in first or trading up from the 2nd who you hope could be that franchise guy. Big difference.

But I do think that Wentz could be that guy unless you do something unsavory with Jerry Jones & convince him to roll with Wentz @ #4.
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This is false, I never waivered on my Teddy B love. I saw him as a top QB and a winner. I made it very clear 2 years ago I would have done anything possible to have him as my QB. Just because NFL draft scout or Walter Football called him a late first rounder or Mike Mayock wrote him off after his 2nd pass attempt at the combine didn't mean I didn't see him as the best QB.

I'm sure Texian is referring to me though. My opinion is my opinion and doesn't always line up exactly the way "experts" opinions do. There are many risers and sinkers between now and the draft. Don't be shocked if some top tier "consensus" QBs start fading while other later guys start rising.

He was a missed 27 yard field goal away from being in the 2nd round of the NFL playoffs in his 2nd year too. None of the other QBs that were relevant can even say they've tasted a winning record. I hope I don't divert the topic too much from this statement. Just wanted to say that some (myself) definitely thought Teddy B was the top QB in the draft.
 
Texian said:
Flawed logic for you OK, for me, not so much. As for Teddy, you're guilty for revising history. At this stage in the game two years ago Teddy was the Cat's Meow, the Bees Knees, The Franchise Savior. My guess is the first QB drafted goes at #2 to Cleveland unless Tenn trades their #1 pick.
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Well, early returns on that QB class demonstrate that thought process to be true. Any other QBs in that class led their teams to a division title yet? Not to mention his best WR is a 5th round rookie.

Over his first two years, Bridgewater is completing 65% of his passes, has an efficiency rating of 87, and his QBR of 60.1 craps all over what the rest of that class has done so far.
 
Shishkabob said:
That is also coach talk, if Winston got hurt or fell on his face you still want Coker to have confidence right? Coker also got beat out by Blake Simms when everyone assumed he had the talent to easily win that battle. He played so poorly early on he got benched this season. I credit the kid coming back with fire and competing and earning his spot, but he is still incredibly inexperience for a first round pick. Its almost as absurd as those saying Cardele Jones wouldve been a first rounder last year. Big, physical tools are great and all, but it takes a lot of in game reps to play high at the college level, and a lot more to even be pro ready.
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I'm excited to see more of your posts this offseason. This board is full of knowledge but we could always use more in the draft section. You seem like you have a good eye for football.

Two things you need to know about this place:

1) It's almost impossible for anybody here to change their mind on a prospect once they have formed their initial opinion.

2) Texian has an eye for talent. But he makes up his mind first, and only then does he decide which facts to bring to the argument. If the facts don't back his opinion they are irrelevant. He won't even address them. He'll just pretend that they don't exist. Only the facts that support his opinion will ever be brought up or discussed.
 
bah007 said:
Well, early returns on that QB class demonstrate that thought process to be true. Any other QBs in that class led their teams to a division title yet? Not to mention his best WR is a 5th round rookie.

Over his first two years, Bridgewater is completing 65% of his passes, has an efficiency rating of 87, and his QBR of 60.1 craps all over what the rest of that class has done so far.
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There are exceptions to every situation. Always anomalies. Bridgewater went to a good team, good Defense, good Offense and why the division title. Bortles went to a very bad team, very bad defense, very bad offense. Bortles has had 2 different OC in two years. At this stage in their careers I'll take Bortles 35 TD passes this year, 2nd only to Tom Brady and Bortles being tied for the lead in 4th quarter comebacks.

In fact atr this stage in their respective careers I would take Carr over Bridgewater for my football team.
 
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Texian said:
If you watch the Jimbo video (see Coker thread), first thing out of his mouth and was very adamant and illustrated that is this IS NOT Coach Talk. So you're wrong on this account.
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Did you just say that it's not coach speak because the coach saying it was very adamant that it wasn't coach speak?

Ocean front property, man ...
 
Minnesota the year before Bridgewater: 5-10-1
Bridgewater's first year (no Adrian Peterson): 7-9
Bridgewater's second year: 11-5 (NFC North champs)

Jacksonville the year before Bortles: 4-12
Bortles' first year: 3-13
Bortles' second year: 5-11

I liked Bortles too. He was my #1 QB in that draft. Bridgewater was #2. I'm not trying to take any shots at Bortles. But the fact remains that of all the teams that drafted a QB in that draft, Minnesota has clearly seen the best return on their investment.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Did you just say that it's not coach speak because the coach saying it was very adamant that it wasn't coach speak?

Ocean front property, man ...
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Did you watch the video? If I have to choose between you and Jimbo Fisher on who is being most honest about the situation, no offense but I'm going to side with Jimbo. One I watched the video and two I believe Jimbo was being completely honest in his assessment of the situation with the press and you were nowhere around to know..... but hey.....ocean front property man!
 
Texian said:
I never evaluate a QB on how he will perform in his first or second year. I'm more interested in year 10 and/or year 15. If you watch the Jimbo video (see Coker thread), first thing out of his mouth and was very adamant and illustrated that is this IS NOT Coach Talk. So you're wrong on this account. The reason Coker lost out to Sims is because Sims had 3 years in Bama system when Coker arrived. Yes Sims had a better understanding of the offense. If you know anything about Saban you'd know this is a BIG deal.
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Ive learned not to take anything a coach or anyone on tv says at face value. If you are still thinking hey this kid might have to come in and play for us at some point youre going to build him up bottom line.

Like i said before I like Coker to an extent i would be pleased if we drafted him, just know from previous drafts NFL scouts want experience at the QB position its not a spot that is easily picked up and learned like others. I dont think he is a major project, but he has some habits you will need to work out of him. If you flipped Coker and Hackenberg on each others teams i bet you would be singing Hack's praises while bashing Coker. Its the nature of the beast, they both possess the physical tools, both big, strong armed, obvious knowledge for the game, both share the ability to extend plays and will to extend plays. The difference to me this year is the teams they were on and the coaching staff. While Lane Kiffin and Bama had enough talent to help protect Coker's flaws and put him in good situations, Penn State couldnt afford to do that with Hack he was all they had. So Hack was exposed more and put in worse situations than Coker, add in the fact I dont really think James Franklin really knows how to develop or cared to develop this QB at least i think Hack got the short end of the stick.

Bottom line I have Coker and Hack in the same boat both 3rd round picks, but with us drafting in the later half of rounds i would mind taking either in the second if that is the guy our HC wants to roll with
 
bah007 said:
Minnesota the year before Bridgewater: 5-10-1
Bridgewater's first year (no Adrian Peterson): 7-9
Bridgewater's second year: 11-5 (NFC North champs)

Jacksonville the year before Bortles: 4-12
Bortles' first year: 3-13
Bortles' second year: 5-11

I liked Bortles too. He was my #1 QB in that draft. Bridgewater was #2. I'm not trying to take any shots at Bortles. But the fact remains that of all the teams that drafted a QB in that draft, Minnesota has clearly seen the best return on their investment.
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I'm not going to get in a pissing match with about Bridgewater. Teddy's first year was sans Adrian Peterson and today for my football team, the fact remains, I'll still take Bortles and Carr over Bridgewater.
 
Texian said:
Did you watch the video? If I have to choose between you and Jimbo Fisher on who is being most honest about the situation, no offense but I'm going to side with Jimbo. One I watched the video and two I believe Jimbo was being completely honest in his assessment of the situation with the press and you were nowhere around to know..... but hey.....ocean front property man!
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I did watch the video.

And believe me, I am not offended whatsoever at what someone else would take as gospel from a highly paid football coach.
 
Shishkabob said:
If you flipped Coker and Hackenberg on each others teams i bet you would be singing Hack's praises while bashing Coker.
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There is no need for you to try and put words in my mouth. And don't bet. Let me be absolutely clear to eliminate any confusion. After watching a minimum 10 Hackenberg games if I was going to sing Hackenberg's praises I would have done so a long time ago. I haven't and I won't. My positive evaluation of Coker is in no way because he plays for Alabama. If there is still any confusion on your part I again suggest you go and review the Hackenberg thread I started. That should clear up any further confusion you may have on my Hackenberg evaluations. Also you will find that my very first initial thoughts on Coker (in my Coker thread)were he could be a diamond in the rough and nothing more.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Really ... troll? Good grief.

I questioned how you could believe a coach just because he said, "no really, believe me ..."

Guess I hit a nerve. No biggie.
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You asked your question and I asked mine. Does the shoe fit? Good Grief! Who is the one with the thin skin?
 
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