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Save us Savage!!!!!!!

DocBar said:
I'll be happy to. Please provide us with what you've gleaned from Savage's playing time. This isn't a one way street.
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From what I have seen, he appears to be a guy who is calm in the pocket, and has good pocket awareness. For a young player, he did't show me many instances of looking rattled or playing scared. Admittedly, he did have some shaky moments (fumbled a handoff when he entered the game against Indy I believe), but I attribute that to normal jitters a young player would have thrust into action on short notice. I've seen several plays where he stood in the pocket and delivered a decent ball despite the pocket collapsing around him.

He has an great arm and throws a mostly effortless long ball. He has decent mobility, especially for his size and seems to have good physical control of his body on the move. I also think he is above average moving to his left and throwing across his body with accuracy.
And I agree with the post above. I acknowledge that the sample size is small, but based on what I've seen, I think he has the intangibles to be a starter in the league.


As far as not having enough information to posit anything, that's just asinine. Players come into the league from college with enough data to posit their ceiling or floor, but just on a limited data set.

Aren't you a draftnik? If so, why? Clearly you believe there isn't enough data to project their chances of success at the NFL level, not even for players with training camps, preseason games, and regular season snaps under their belts...
If you aren't a draftnik, disregard that part as I might be thinking about another member. But my point about coming from college with enough information to project players still stands. Yes, you can assess ceiling and floor straight out of college, just with a smaller sample size, and adjusting as more data is available.
 
michaelm said:
From what I have seen, he appears to be a guy who is calm in the pocket, and has good pocket awareness. For a young player, he did't show me many instances of looking rattled or playing scared. Admittedly, he did have some shaky moments (fumbled a handoff when he entered the game against Indy I believe), but I attribute that to normal jitters a young player would have thrust into action on short notice. I've seen several plays where he stood in the pocket and delivered a decent ball despite the pocket collapsing around him.

He has an great arm and throws a mostly effortless long ball. He has decent mobility, especially for his size and seems to have good physical control of his body on the move. I also think he is above average moving to his left and throwing across his body with accuracy.
And I agree with the post above. I acknowledge that the sample size is small, but based on what I've seen, I think he has the intangibles to be a starter in the league.


As far as not having enough information to posit anything, that's just asinine. Players come into the league from college with enough data to posit their ceiling or floor, but just on a limited data set.

Aren't you a draftnik? If so, why? Clearly you believe there isn't enough data to project their chances of success at the NFL level, not even for players with training camps, preseason games, and regular season snaps under their belts...
If you aren't a draftnik, disregard that part as I might be thinking about another member. But my point about coming from college with enough information to project players still stands. Yes, you can assess ceiling and floor straight out of college, just with a smaller sample size, and adjusting as more data is available.
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I'm not even a cousin to a draftnik. I start searching much later in the game than draftnicks. I also don't pretend to be an "official" at a certain position.
 
DocBar said:
I'm not even a cousin to a draftnik. I start searching much later in the game than draftnicks. I also don't pretend to be an "official" at a certain position.
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I'm not sure if you're referring to draftniks or me pretending to be an official but I hope I didn't come across as if I think I'm one.
I'm just another faceless guy behind a keyboard. At any rate, it's all good as they say. I like a good debate as much as the next guy.
 
michaelm said:
From what I have seen, he appears to be a guy who is calm in the pocket, and has good pocket awareness. For a young player, he did't show me many instances of looking rattled or playing scared. Admittedly, he did have some shaky moments (fumbled a handoff when he entered the game against Indy I believe), but I attribute that to normal jitters a young player would have thrust into action on short notice. I've seen several plays where he stood in the pocket and delivered a decent ball despite the pocket collapsing around him.

He has an great arm and throws a mostly effortless long ball. He has decent mobility, especially for his size and seems to have good physical control of his body on the move. I also think he is above average moving to his left and throwing across his body with accuracy.
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Really? You've seen all of that in the 19 passes he's thrown in his NFL career?
 
michaelm said:
I think Savage has a chance to develop into a better QB than any that have been on the roster the past two seasons. I think his ceiling is around Alex Smith level. Having said that, drafting a QB very high is a priority.
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I'm thinking more Phillip Rivers/Matt Stafford
 
I don't think there's a person on this forum that doesn't HOPE Savage is "the guy," educated guessing or not, right?

Like I said in another thread, if we draft a QB in rounds 1-2 then you know that OB made a mistake in Savage, and the FO wants to rectify that.

If they don't take a QB in 1-2, or have a miraculous QB fall in our laps, then you know Savage will start in 2016.

Or the 3rd option, OB & Crew trot out Hoyer or Weeden, again, and the city has a meltdown.

Well, there's actually a 4th option: Hoyer or Weeden take us to the Super Bowl, by turning into different players, and we're set with the vets.
 
DocBar said:
I'll be happy to. Please provide us with what you've gleaned from Savage's playing time. This isn't a one way street.
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I was impressed with how much his game improved at Pitt. I thought he played very well in the preseason. Taking the majority of the snaps, he went against ones, twos, threes..... he played with our ones, twos, threes... What little bit I've seen, I've liked.
 
Speedy said:
Really? You've seen all of that in the 19 passes he's thrown in his NFL career?
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Yes. Those plus plenty more preseason passes and some college passes as well.
Other than being a smart ass why do you ask? It does nothing to disprove anything I said.
 
Shishkabob said:
Because Savage has all the intangibles you want in a QB, he has good size, strong arm, intelligent, athletic enough to make plays with his feet.
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Not to be argumentative, but for future reference, those are tangibles. Things you can see, things you can measure.

Intangibles are things you can't.... leadership, character, drive, ambition, things like that.

But I agree with you.
 
michaelm said:
Yes. Those plus plenty more preseason passes and some college passes as well.
Other than being a smart ass why do you ask? It does nothing to disprove anything I said.
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Savage threw 74 passes in the 2015 preseason.
Will one of the resident personnel experts please let me know the minimum allowable passes required before I can begin forming my opinion?
 
michaelm said:
From what I have seen, he appears to be a guy who is calm in the pocket, and has good pocket awareness. For a young player, he did't show me many instances of looking rattled or playing scared. Admittedly, he did have some shaky moments (fumbled a handoff when he entered the game against Indy I believe), but I attribute that to normal jitters a young player would have thrust into action on short notice. I've seen several plays where he stood in the pocket and delivered a decent ball despite the pocket collapsing around him.

He has an great arm and throws a mostly effortless long ball. He has decent mobility, especially for his size and seems to have good physical control of his body on the move. I also think he is above average moving to his left and throwing across his body with accuracy.
And I agree with the post above. I acknowledge that the sample size is small, but based on what I've seen, I think he has the intangibles to be a starter in the league.


As far as not having enough information to posit anything, that's just asinine. Players come into the league from college with enough data to posit their ceiling or floor, but just on a limited data set.

Aren't you a draftnik? If so, why? Clearly you believe there isn't enough data to project their chances of success at the NFL level, not even for players with training camps, preseason games, and regular season snaps under their belts...
If you aren't a draftnik, disregard that part as I might be thinking about another member. But my point about coming from college with enough information to project players still stands. Yes, you can assess ceiling and floor straight out of college, just with a smaller sample size, and adjusting as more data is available.
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I'm right there with you on savage. I've liked his demeanor and attitude since we picked him up. Obviously he's got good physical tools to work with and as rough as his first ever game action as a rookie was last year, we were still in that game late and he had some great throws late once he settled down. He actually led us down the field for the go ahead TD late in that game too but it got called back b/c of a penalty I believe.... The way OB has handled him since he got here tells me OB maybe thinks he's the qb of the future. Him taking the majority of the preseason snaps this year during a qb competition that he wasn't even mentioned as being a part of....OB never leaving him unprotected on the practice squad ever...the inexplicable season ending IR this year for a 6 wk injury....


I mean, I'd like to see him get rid of the ball a little quicker, but that kind of stuff comes with experience and comfortability in the given system and with the guys he's throwing to.
Everyone's all up in arms talking about if we don't take a qb early then they as fans are gonna do this or that...The qb of the future may already be on the roster.
 
thunderkyss said:
I was impressed with how much his game improved at Pitt. I thought he played very well in the preseason. Taking the majority of the snaps, he went against ones, twos, threes..... he played with our ones, twos, threes... What little bit I've seen, I've liked.
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I don't think I'm wrong on this one - because I remember distinctly thinking in the preseason that I would like to see Savage with our ones - but I'm 99.1% sure he didn't see action with our first team. Maybe a couple of couple of guys here and there; still, I was agitated that we didn't see it.
 
michaelm said:
Yes. Those plus plenty more preseason passes and some college passes as well.
Other than being a smart ass why do you ask? It does nothing to disprove anything I said.
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Well, college and pre-season playing against 2's and 3's doesn't mean jack. There's tons and tons of QBs that have done all those things you've mentioned in college and PS that don't amount to anything once the real NFL games are played.

Not saying Savage won't turn out to be something and as someone mentioned above, we all HOPE for the best, but let's not declare anything about the guy with just 19 passes under his belt. Case Keenum looked pretty good in his 1st game. Ryan Mallett. Jus' saying.
 
EVOLVIST said:
I don't think I'm wrong on this one - because I remember distinctly thinking in the preseason that I would like to see Savage with our ones - but I'm 99.1% sure he didn't see action with our first team. Maybe a couple of couple of guys here and there; still, I was agitated that we didn't see it.
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Right. I don't think we ever played all the ones at any one time. It had always been a mixture. Ones & twos, twos & threes, & a bunch of different combinations. I think Ben Jones played as much as Savage, whether at Center or Guard. We didn't have Arian, so who was our #1 RB? TEs played the whole time.
 
Speedy said:
Well, college and pre-season playing against 2's and 3's doesn't mean jack. There's tons and tons of QBs that have done all those things you've mentioned in college and PS that don't amount to anything once the real NFL games are played.

Not saying Savage won't turn out to be something and as someone mentioned above, we all HOPE for the best, but let's not declare anything about the guy with just 19 passes under his belt. Case Keenum looked pretty good in his 1st game. Ryan Mallett. Jus' saying.
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I'm not sure how much more plain I can be. My point is that there is enough data to form an opinion on what I have seen so far with the knowledge that what I have seen so far is limited, and that my opinion might change after seeing him play more.
My entire argument is not that I'm declaring Savage to be anything in particular. My argument is that I can form an opinion on what he has done to date.

Put plainly, if Savage had only thrown one single pass in his entire life, I could form an opinion on it. DocBar said that we don't have enough data to form an opinion and I have been refuting that statement. We can form an opinion on what he has done so far.
 
If only "mister" Savage could stay healthy, he'd be a long term solution. And if wishes were horses.....
 
Seegara said:
If only "mister" Savage could stay healthy, he'd be a long term solution. And if wishes were horses.....
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He had a sprained shoulder. He was IR'd for a roster spot. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water now.
---
Regardless if we think he is or isn't the future, I don't see how we don't invest in the QB position in this draft. It's the single most glaring weakness. We can trot out 3 RBs to cover up missing Arian. We signed 2 vets to replace AJ. We have yet to replace good Schaub with cast offs and never were bunch that we signed. Even if Savage does turn out to be really good then we have a young backup riding the bench and learning. Not exactly a terrible thing. If Tom bombs then we have another body that's been in our system longer than a week.
 
PHILLYTEXANFAN said:
Since he's on IR, is he allowed to throw drills with teammates , like non organized practices?
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I see him at all the games hanging around with Godsey and O'Brien listening to the calls with a clipboard/computer in his hand. In the article on game planning for Jacksonville, they mention him being in the QB room watching film and discussing the plays.

I don't think he's allowed to take part in actual drills with the team, but I don't think that excludes him throwing to guys and working on things outside of the practice session. I suspect they have him on a pretty strict-- but mostly "voluntary"-- regimen and routine.
 
It's just a guess/opinion at this point but I'm starting to believe that we're going to get Savage in 2016. I just think he'll be option #1 and that it will be either revealed or "played" that this was the plan all along. Hoyer will still be here. Weeden will still be here. We'll be drafting another QB outside of the 1-2 round optimal window too but I think it's going to be Savage.

For better or worse. No idea how that plays out.

I don't hold either of his IR stints against him. Neither one was something that most other guys walk away from rubbing dirt on it. The knee injury against the Colts, that stuff happens. The shoulder this year in the preseason is the same way. You drive just about any QB's shoulder into the carpet like that and you're going to see an injury. I'm not sold that he's "fragile" nor do I think him not being ready last year against the Colts means anything. He was a rookie. Next year though we need to see him take the bull by the horns and step up if that's what the Texans decide to do.
 
Hervoyel said:
It's just a guess/opinion at this point but I'm starting to believe that we're going to get Savage in 2016. I just think he'll be option #1 and that it will be either revealed or "played" that this was the plan all along. Hoyer will still be here. Weeden will still be here. We'll be drafting another QB outside of the 1-2 round optimal window too but I think it's going to be Savage.

For better or worse. No idea how that plays out.

I don't hold either of his IR stints against him. Neither one was something that most other guys walk away from rubbing dirt on it. The knee injury against the Colts, that stuff happens. The shoulder this year in the preseason is the same way. You drive just about any QB's shoulder into the carpet like that and you're going to see an injury. I'm not sold that he's "fragile" nor do I think him not being ready last year against the Colts means anything. He was a rookie. Next year though we need to see him take the bull by the horns and step up if that's what the Texans decide to do.
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I agree. I also wouldn't put it past this new regime to be extra careful with it being his throwing shoulder. Not something we're used to seeing around here, but it is a new crew, so who knows?
 
michaelm said:
I'm not sure how much more plain I can be. My point is that there is enough data to form an opinion on what I have seen so far with the knowledge that what I have seen so far is limited, and that my opinion might change after seeing him play more.
My entire argument is not that I'm declaring Savage to be anything in particular. My argument is that I can form an opinion on what he has done to date.

Put plainly, if Savage had only thrown one single pass in his entire life, I could form an opinion on it. DocBar said that we don't have enough data to form an opinion and I have been refuting that statement. We can form an opinion on what he has done so far.
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You can have all the opinions you want if that's what you're argument is. My opinion is that 19 passes isn't enough to come to any conclusions and that what he's done in college and PS, his measurables, poise, whatever, doesn't mean jack until he plays real NFL games. I can hope and speculate just like anyone else, but I can't declare that he will be a starter in this league with what little I've seen.

I've seen too many people have great arms, make the throws, have the size, good mobility, and so on, do absolutely nothing in this league. My opinion is that I'm going to wait and see how Savage develops as he gets more and more snaps under his belt before declaring him anything more than a 4th round project.

I mean, let's face it, none of us has seen him in practice, and practice, of course, is where it all goes down apparently.
 
Another thing, OB said he didn't see much difference between the top six guys. So far, looks like he was right.
 
Hervoyel said:
It's just a guess/opinion at this point but I'm starting to believe that we're going to get Savage in 2016. I just think he'll be option #1 and that it will be either revealed or "played" that this was the plan all along. Hoyer will still be here. Weeden will still be here. We'll be drafting another QB outside of the 1-2 round optimal window too but I think it's going to be Savage.

For better or worse. No idea how that plays out.

I don't hold either of his IR stints against him. Neither one was something that most other guys walk away from rubbing dirt on it. The knee injury against the Colts, that stuff happens. The shoulder this year in the preseason is the same way. You drive just about any QB's shoulder into the carpet like that and you're going to see an injury. I'm not sold that he's "fragile" nor do I think him not being ready last year against the Colts means anything. He was a rookie. Next year though we need to see him take the bull by the horns and step up if that's what the Texans decide to do.
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BOB took Savage based on his NFL tangibles with the idea of developing his intangibles. The latter can only be accomplished with more coaching and reps. And I believe, you are correct..........Bob is willing to give him that opportunity...........if it turns out that an A-C separation (grade III or less) without unrevealed accompanying significant labrum and/or rotator cuff damage was actually the injury that ended his season.
 
Shishkabob said:
Because Savage has all the intangibles you want in a QB, he has good size, strong arm, intelligent, athletic enough to make plays with his feet. He played well at Pitt behind the nations worst O line, and sub par weapons. He looked like the best QB on our roster this preseason unfortunately our coaching staff was never going to give him a real chance. Any QB we will be able to draft will be a project some what, and with OB's self admitted complicated offense might not be able to contribute or make us serious contenders for a couple of years. Savage has already been here learning the pro game and our system for 2 years now, plus has the right tools. Not saying he is our savior, i still want to see a QB in the first 3 rounds, but he should be given every opportunity to earn that starting job unlike last offseason. I see Savage starting for us in the 2016 season
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My suspicion is that Savage gets the split of the OTA and preseason snaps this year with Hoyer retaining 1 to start. Weedon is not under contract and likely elsewhere. But he might be #3 along with a project QB for a camp arm. Unless a QB unexpectedly falls, I don't think we take a late 1st round QB when other positions have been bypassed for QB.
 
michaelm said:
From what I have seen, he appears to be a guy who is calm in the pocket, and has good pocket awareness. For a young player, he did't show me many instances of looking rattled or playing scared. Admittedly, he did have some shaky moments (fumbled a handoff when he entered the game against Indy I believe), but I attribute that to normal jitters a young player would have thrust into action on short notice. I've seen several plays where he stood in the pocket and delivered a decent ball despite the pocket collapsing around him.

He has an great arm and throws a mostly effortless long ball. He has decent mobility, especially for his size and seems to have good physical control of his body on the move. I also think he is above average moving to his left and throwing across his body with accuracy.
And I agree with the post above. I acknowledge that the sample size is small, but based on what I've seen, I think he has the intangibles to be a starter in the league.


As far as not having enough information to posit anything, that's just asinine. Players come into the league from college with enough data to posit their ceiling or floor, but just on a limited data set.

Aren't you a draftnik? If so, why? Clearly you believe there isn't enough data to project their chances of success at the NFL level, not even for players with training camps, preseason games, and regular season snaps under their belts...
If you aren't a draftnik, disregard that part as I might be thinking about another member. But my point about coming from college with enough information to project players still stands. Yes, you can assess ceiling and floor straight out of college, just with a smaller sample size, and adjusting as more data is available.
Click to expand...
I just urge reevaluation of those ceilings and floors from college after a little while because they are not always accurate. Some people act as though they are LAW an not just guidance. It is an art and not a science, even though we try to act as if it is. Heart and mind are frequently more important than the science and measurables. Sometime for the better and more frequently for the worse.
 
Marshall said:
I just urge reevaluation of those ceilings and floors from college after a little while because they are not always accurate. Some people act as though they are LAW an not just guidance. It is an art and not a science, even though we try to act as if it is. Heart and mind are frequently more important than the science and measurables. Sometime for the better and more frequently for the worse.
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I agree. That's why I tried to stress that any evaluation is based on limited information and one has to be willing to not only reevaluate as more information becomes available but also willing to admit their early evaluation might have been incorrect, if it turns out that way.
I actually didn't intend to give an evaluation of Savage. I was just arguing the philosophical point that we have enough information to form an opinion. But an obviously early opinion based on limited data.
 
michaelm said:
I agree. That's why I tried to stress that any evaluation is based on limited information and one has to be willing to not only reevaluate as more information becomes available but also willing to admit their early evaluation might have been incorrect, if it turns out that way.
I actually didn't intend to give an evaluation of Savage. I was just arguing the philosophical point that we have enough information to form an opinion. But an obviously early opinion based on limited data.
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Certainly an early opinion is just that. EARLY and an OPINION. There's nothing wrong with it as long as it does not become sacrosanct like a draft position often is. Is Savage worse because he was drafted in the fourth instead of the 1st? Many would say yes. I would say no. He is what he is. I'm hoping he was under-rated and overlooked as many other players have been. But HE is the same. But expectations are different so he may get more time off most fans radar rather than become a disappointment too quickly if he needs time to develop a pro game.

At this point the potential is still there and from limited reps and reports, and has made progress. But enough? I really don't know.
 
Marshall said:
Certainly an early opinion is just that. EARLY and an OPINION. There's nothing wrong with it as long as it does not become sacrosanct like a draft position often is. Is Savage worse because he was drafted in the fourth instead of the 1st? Many would say yes. I would say no. He is what he is. I'm hoping he was under-rated and overlooked as many other players have been. But HE is the same. But expectations are different so he may get more time off most fans radar rather than become a disappointment too quickly if he needs time to develop a pro game.

At this point the potential is still there and from limited reps and reports, and has made progress. But enough? I really don't know.
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Another way to look at it is that his rating said he was a project that would take some time. At this point, he's had that time to develop, and it's coming up on time to see whether he has or not. With today's culture, those guys who need time to develop are rarely given that time. Let's hope that Savage becomes a poster-boy for patience in the development of a QB.
 
michaelm said:
Savage threw 74 passes in the 2015 preseason.
Will one of the resident personnel experts please let me know the minimum allowable passes required before I can begin forming my opinion?
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75.

thunderkyss said:
I'm thinking more Phillip Rivers/Matt Stafford
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I'm thinking more Johnny Unitas/Joe Montana. And by "thinking" I mean hallucinating.

Tom Savage reminds me of Chris Taylor. "Chris who?"

Taylor was a bottom of the Texans' roster RB who was always injured. He may have had a decent game late one season. Fans loved him, based upon pretty much nothing. "We don't need a RB. Chris Taylor will step up next year." Tom Savage is the current Chris Taylor. He fills a position of need, fans know zilch about his ability, and place all sorts of expectations on him. Then, it turns out he can't play.

Right now, I can't prove Savage is Chris Taylor. But the odds he is Chris Taylor versus Rivers/Stafford/Alex Smith/Name of any starting QB are heavily in my favor.
 
Sorry but I don't see where this faith in Savage comes from. I have nothing against Savage but my comparison yardstick for young QBs is Russell Wilson. Wilson came in and TOOK the starting job from Matt Flynn and Tarvarus Jackson.
Now before you get that WTF look on your face, do you really think Matt Flynn is/was worse than what we thought Fitzpatrick was going to be (when we drafted Savage) or worse than what Hoyer turned out to be (after Savage had a year in the system)??? Don't you think that if Savage had it going on the way some are portraying him, shouldn't he have beat out Fitzy last year or at Hoyer/Mallett this year??
Wilson came in as a rook and TOOK the starting job.
Savage seems to be patiently waiting his turn. Sorry, but I expect more competitive fire from my backup QBs than to just sit and wait for the job to be given to him. I want him to try and take it; every camp, every practice. I want him thinking, "that should be MY job" and doing all he can to take it.

Remember Steve Young behind Joe Montana, I want to see that attitude in my backup.




.....unless he's some old dude brought in specifically to be the backup
 
ObsiWan said:
Sorry but I don't see where this faith in Savage comes from. I have nothing against Savage but my comparison yardstick for young QBs is Russell Wilson. Wilson came in and TOOK the starting job from Matt Flynn and Tarvarus Jackson.
Now before you get that WTF look on your face, do you really think Matt Flynn is/was worse than what we thought Fitzpatrick was going to be (when we drafted Savage) or worse than what Hoyer turned out to be (after Savage had a year in the system)??? Don't you think that if Savage had it going on the way some are portraying him, shouldn't he have beat out Fitzy last year or at Hoyer/Mallett this year??
Wilson came in as a rook and TOOK the starting job.
Savage seems to be patiently waiting his turn. Sorry, but I expect more competitive fire from my backup QBs than to just sit and wait for the job to be given to him. I want him to try and take it; every camp, every practice. I want him thinking, "that should be MY job" and doing all he can to take it.

Remember Steve Young behind Joe Montana, I want to see that attitude in my backup.




.....unless he's some old dude brought in specifically to be the backup
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We dont know if he didnt do that that. Not like we get actual news from training camp. This is the first time we got a quote like that.

Clearly states he wants to be the starter and damn anyone else they bring in. Is that not what you are wanting?
 
ObsiWan said:
Sorry but I don't see where this faith in Savage comes from. I have nothing against Savage but my comparison yardstick for young QBs is Russell Wilson. Wilson came in and TOOK the starting job from Matt Flynn and Tarvarus Jackson.
Now before you get that WTF look on your face, do you really think Matt Flynn is/was worse than what we thought Fitzpatrick was going to be (when we drafted Savage) or worse than what Hoyer turned out to be (after Savage had a year in the system)??? Don't you think that if Savage had it going on the way some are portraying him, shouldn't he have beat out Fitzy last year
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No. Savage was signed knowing he was a project and would take several years to develop.
...or at Hoyer/Mallett this year??
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Again no. He was not on the active roster this year because of injury. He had no say in this matter.
 
ObsiWan said:
Sorry but I don't see where this faith in Savage comes from.
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You could say the same for any 1st round rookie that would be brought in here. Yet fans would inexplicably have more faith in that kid than they would a guy in Savage who actually has thrown an NFL pass in this offense. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
 
We should have already seen what Savage could do this year and then decided if he's worth keeping or not. But instead our GM decided to save a few bucks, or something, and we are in this mess.

..Maybe it was on purpose, as a fail safe to give fans a glimmer of hope for next season in case **** hit the fan (spoiler alert, it did).


Disgusting.
 
Mr teX said:
You could say the same for any 1st round rookie that would be brought in here. Yet fans would inexplicably have more faith in that kid than they would a guy in Savage who actually has thrown an NFL pass in this offense. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
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You don't see why any fan would be more eager to see a guy who has the tools and intangibles to earn a first round grade over Tom Savage?
 
Mr teX said:
Yet fans would inexplicably have more faith in that kid than they would a guy in Savage who actually has thrown an NFL pass in this offense. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
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By the same token, do you have more faith in Weeden than Savage? Brandon has thrown over twice as many passes in this offense than Tom (42-19). Maybe we should have more faith in Cecil Shorts, as he has thrown more TD passes than Savage (1-0)?
 
mussop said:
It would of been nice to see him get some paying time this year instead of being on IR.
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Yep, sure would have been. I am looking forward to seeing him compete next year. Like most everyone else, I hope the Texans draft a QB in the early rounds. But assuming Hoyer just guaranteed his release from the team. I would be ok with a Savage/Vet/Rookie or Vet/Savage/Rookie situation next season.
 
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ObsiWan said:
Sorry but I don't see where this faith in Savage comes from. I have nothing against Savage but my comparison yardstick for young QBs is Russell Wilson. Wilson came in and TOOK the starting job from Matt Flynn and Tarvarus Jackson.
Now before you get that WTF look on your face, do you really think Matt Flynn is/was worse than what we thought Fitzpatrick was going to be (when we drafted Savage) or worse than what Hoyer turned out to be (after Savage had a year in the system)??? Don't you think that if Savage had it going on the way some are portraying him, shouldn't he have beat out Fitzy last year or at Hoyer/Mallett this year??
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Only problem is you're putting O'Brien on par with Pete Caroll & it don't work like that.

Nate Washington & Cecil Shorts have been starting all year while healthy & we're being told a WR is overweight at his combine weight. Mumph... nothing special. But that sucker can catch a football. Both seem to get open more frequently than our Nate & Cecil.

We've got RBs that can't find a hole in Donald Trump argument... have no speed & can't break a tackle. But Grimes & Hunt are on the bench. Get one or two carries a game & usually make something out of them.

Just because Tom Savage didn't win the starting job doesn't mean that he shouldn't have.
 
thunderkyss said:
Only problem is you're putting O'Brien on par with Pete Caroll & it don't work like that.

Nate Washington & Cecil Shorts have been starting all year while healthy & we're being told a WR is overweight at his combine weight. Mumph... nothing special. But that sucker can catch a football. Both seem to get open more frequently than our Nate & Cecil.

We've got RBs that can't find a hole in Donald Trump argument... have no speed & can't break a tackle. But Grimes & Hunt are on the bench. Get one or two carries a game & usually make something out of them.

Just because Tom Savage didn't win the starting job doesn't mean that he shouldn't have.
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Okay, I'll give you that. Savage may have shown promise and O'Brien was just too damned stubborn to promote him over his handpicked guys, Fitzy and Hoyer.

After all, we are talking about a head coach who insured the backup couldn't be called upon by not allowing him ANY prep snaps going into this game.
 
Funny that Pete Carroll got brought up. That's exactly who OB reminds me of. But not Pete Carroll as he is now. He reminds me of Carroll during his head coaching run with the Patriots.

His teams from 97-99 went 10-6, 9-7, and 8-8 with playoff appearances his first two years. He took over a talented roster but the front office was a mess in the wake of Parcells leaving, and they had just absolutely terrible drafts in Carroll's first two years. He was clearly a good coach who showed glimpses of greatness but he was eventually pushed out due to mediocre results that he did play a part in but wasn't entirely his fault. He did make game day mistakes that very often happen when you have a head coach who lacks experience, but showed the ability to learn from his mistakes quickly. His personality and demeanor also rubbed people the wrong way. His confidence was seen as arrogance and his reputation as a "player's coach" gave people the impression that he was better suited for the college game.

He was fired and ended up at USC. There, he reevaluated his approach to coaching, which led to tremendous success. Then he jumped back to the NFL and is one of the top two coaches in the game right now.

Much like Carroll, I fear that the lessons OB needs to learn and the adjustments he needs to make won't come here. They'll come at his next stop. He's overconfident in his approach and it will take getting fired for him to reevaluate. I do think that he will be a very good HC eventually. We'll have to show incredible and potentially unreasonable patience if it's going to ever happen here.
 
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