speedfreek
All Pro
Double facial -- well, he did say he wanted to be "multiple"
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Bill O'Brien deserves to continue as our HC because...
- Thread starter thunderkyss
- Start date
Double facial -- well, he did say he wanted to be "multiple"
I think he's lost the team. The question is why. If McNair feels OB is justified in whatever he's doing that has upset the team... then I can see waiting to see how it plays out.
But if it's over some BS like I think it is, why wait? We don't have a better option is not a good excuse.
Scooter
Funky
I've got 2 theories, but I'm pretty stupid so they're probably wrong. The first is - players aren't idiots, they know when someone isn't giving them the best chance to succeed. They're asking the same questions we are, why is someone who obviously doesn't have the know-how the one telling me what to do? Second is how he treats people. 2 standouts for me were in Hard Knocks with the way he addressed the coaching staff, treating them like inferiors (I felt, others may disagree). Once on the field screaming during an 'I want to see what these UFCKERS know' rant! The second time was in a meeting room with about 10 coaches at the table, but I forget the exact discussion. Combine that with how he's handled the quarterback situation, along with any additional personnel conflicts we're not aware of - and the players have lost respect.
How does he deserve a third season?
Anytime anyone asks him what's wrong, he says, "I don't know." Week after week more 3 & outs than first downs. We haven't gotten better at tackling over 7 weeks... when he says he doesn't know, I believe him.
He doesn't know what talent he does have & doesn't know what to do with it. I know, I know, we don't have any talent... but we're talking about losing to some of the worst teams in the NFL right now. The Colts back up QB was in the hospital at 2 am of the morning he made our defense (with 9 former 1st round picks) look like a high school team.
The Dolphins were so bad they fired their coach before the halfway mark of the season. & they schilac'd our asses
He doesn't deserve a 3rd donut much less a third season.
I think somewhat along the lines of what you're thinking. Two guys who supposedly did everything they were told... but come active roster time... Jalen needs to learn how to practice better. . XSF is out of shape but just 5 weeks earlier he's praised for putting in the work to change his body composition or whatever.
Did Jalen Strong look great when he got on the field? No. Scored two TDs but that's not great.
Our other WRs can't catch the ball, but we throw them out there week after week. Great shouldn't be where the bar is at to get String on the field.
Special teams is a joke. Everyone of those guys should have had a stern talking to, & then some, but... can't get Strong on the field.
Joke of a QB competition. Mercilus can't do enough to earn a starting job. But Clowney coming off major surgery gets his first sack in game 7.
Concussion protocol? What's that? These guys aren't worried about the health of their players.
Ques.. how are you going to tell a man, "We like you, but you've been out of football for a long time. So instead of stashing you on the practice squad where you can work at getting into game shape, we're going to put you on IR... can't practice with the team... but y'know"
Tolar's Ghost
Waterboy
I never understood how or why O'Brien would be given the say over personnel. His resume wasn't deep enough.
A Cowher, yes. O'Brien, no.
Scooter
Funky
His resume is barely deep enough for an offensive coordinator position. How he made it to head coach is absolutely beyond me.
Tolar's Ghost
Waterboy
I think it's tied to directly to McNair's respect/admiration - or is it adulation? - for Kraft, Belichick, Brady and the Patriots.
I think, and it's just speculation on my part, that the owners do have their own circles like the coaches and players do.
Tolar's Ghost
Waterboy
Absolutely.
But we have to deduct points from Kraft for those hideous white-collar-on-colored-shirts he always wears.
(I quit wearing them when the "Mod" look faded in the '60s!)
But we have to deduct points from Kraft for those hideous white-collar-on-colored-shirts he always wears.
(I quit wearing them when the "Mod" look faded in the '60s!)
Scooter
Funky
Ignorance is the word you're looking for. Kraft is winning and McNair doesn't know any better, so he's sidling up to an enemy in hopes of being given a treat if he's a good boy. That treat was O'Brien, and Kraft has one less conference opponent to worry about - because the NFL is ONLY about winning.
I highly doubt McNair got to where he is today by being a chump, but that's exactly what he's giving off as an owner. He's made an underling part of the family, is asking anyone who will listen for guidance and generally being everything BUT the guy who made millions as a business man. I really don't care if he knows anything about football, an aggressive man with funds can hire down the chain to acquire those who do - without asking 'buddies' for help.
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
Joe Philbin was in his 4th season. O'Brien is half way through his 2nd. Emotionally, if I were the owner it would be hard for me not to have fired O'Brien after the game. But looking at the big picture, O'Brien did better than expected in his first season, and is doing worse than expected in his 2nd. It's a wash at this point. Gotta let it play out for at least part of next season IMO. Let's not get it twisted. The Dolphins did not kick our asses because they are some awesome team under a interim coach. They kicked our asses because our team sucks. Can't tackle to save their lives, and have 0 creativity on offense.
Th Patriots offense in up tempo short passing with power running. We looked like that with Mallett, except for the power running game. We do not look like that with Hoyer. He is not throwing the short timing routes this offense calls for. He is holding on to the ball to long trying to make something happen. With a patchwork line, I'm not sure that's a great idea. With suspect protection, it's even more reason to get the ball out quick.
I'm over the Hoyer/Mallett thing and tired of talking about it. It's not going to make a difference what we think anyway.
O'Brien will obviously get at least the rest of the season, or they would have fired him already. As I said in another thread, they will end up offering Mallet up as the sacrificial lamb, when really it should be crennell with Vrabel being promoted to interim DC although I do not know if he is ready or capable of calling the games. That said, Crennell is not either so what's the difference?
If what we all think is true, and O'Brien has lost the team. They will continue to flame out until McNair has no choice but to fire O'Brien before the season ends.
I think he knows the cook should be involved in getting the groceries. If we had one of those organizations where the coaches had no say, we'd botch about that.
Jimmy Johnson & Jerry Jones worked well together & built the first Dynasty of the salary cap era.
I think that's the model McNair is chasing. The HC doesn't have as much pull as a Belichick or Kelly, but he's got the roster.
Scooter
Funky
Only consultant I remember was Dan Reeves, but I'm pretty sure that's not who you meant.
Tolar's Ghost
Waterboy
Maybe USC - or some other major-college program - goes after O'Brien...
Problem, or at least one of the problems, solved.
Problem, or at least one of the problems, solved.
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This.
It has that Jack Pardee wearing a crooked, unplugged headset vibe to it. Of course, for Pardee, it was at the end of a 7 year playoff run that always came up short, but he still had success. The Buddy Ryan debacle was just too much for him.
With O'Brien...beyond comprehension just 1.5 seasons into his HC career...
Giving an inexperienced, unproven head coach that kind of power was stupid in hindsight. McNair is a successful businessman, but pro football has a way of humbling successful people who own teams.
Dread-Head
Hall of Fame
I'm still pissed at the guy for assuming that if he made two mediocre QBs compete for the brass ring that they would elevate their level of play to prove themselves WORTHY of 1 of 32 jobs on the PLANET. When that septic tank of an idea blew up in his face and he didn't draft a QB (just incase) he made me wonder how in the (RHYMES WITH DUCK) he got this job in the first place. If he makes beyond the end of this season I'll think he has pics of McNair humping a sheep. Didn't Bill Cower express wanting to come here before we hired this Bozo?
Dread-Head
Hall of Fame
silvrhand
All Pro
Are you sure.. looking at the last 6 years of draft.. there's a problem.. college isn't producing top QBs anymore.. Since 2009, there have been only 2 QB's I would consider great, with a few hopefuls tossed in the mix, and before you go all high on Andrew Luck he's looked really since middle of last year, he has to stop turning the ball over.
2014 - QB
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL TEAM
1 3 Blake Bortles QB Central Florida Jacksonville Jaguars
1 22 Johnny Manziel QB Texas A&M Cleveland Browns
1 32 Teddy Bridgewater QB Louisville Minnesota Vikings
2013 - QB
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL TEAM
1 16 EJ Manuel QB Florida State Buffalo Bills
2012 - QB
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL TEAM
1 1 Andrew Luck QB Stanford Indianapolis Colts
1 2 Robert Griffin QB Baylor Washington Redskins
1 8 Ryan Tannehill QB Texas A&M Miami Dolphins
1 22 Brandon Weeden QB Oklahoma State Cleveland Browns
2011 - QB
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL TEAM
1 1 Cam Newton QB Auburn Carolina Panthers
1 8 Jake Locker QB Washington Tennessee Titans
1 10 Blaine Gabbert QB Missouri Jacksonville Jaguars
1 12 Christian Ponder QB Florida State Minnesota Vikings
2010 - QB
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL TEAM
1 1 Sam Bradford QB Oklahoma St. Louis Rams
1 25 Tim Tebow QB Florida Denver Broncos
2009 - QB
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL TEAM
1 1 Matthew Stafford QB Georgia Detroit Lions
1 5 Mark Sanchez QB USC New York Jets
1 17 Josh Freeman QB Kansas State Tampa Bay Buccaneers
silvrhand
All Pro
We sold off Fitzpatrick spent more money on the options and didn't come out ahead.. he has to be accountable for the QB play.. Fitz looks pretty good compared to what we had, and his leadership was never questioned.
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
This.
It has that Jack Pardee wearing a crooked, unplugged headset vibe to it. Of course, for Pardee, it was at the end of a 7 year playoff run that always came up short, but he still had success. The Buddy Ryan debacle was just too much for him.
With O'Brien...beyond comprehension just 1.5 seasons into his HC career...
Giving an inexperienced, unproven head coach that kind of power was stupid in hindsight. McNair is a successful businessman, but pro football has a way of humbling successful people who own teams.
Do we have an issue here now. It's my understanding O'Brien has final say over the 53 man roster in his contract. If Smith did veto his attempt to cut Mallett, are we looking at internal issues in the FO along the lines of breach of contract by Smith?
And what is the chance that what really happened was O'Brien and Mallett were in his office on Friday before the flight to Miami where things got heated. O'Brien tells Mallett to go home and he will not be accompanying the team to Miami without telling Smith. That he is cutting him. Mallet gets on the phone with Smith, and thing percolate until Saturday when Mallett gets on a plane and shows up at the stadium. Are you really telling me that if they team flew on Friday, the earliest Mallet could get there was Saturday?
Something is not right about this whole thing. Take a look on HoustonTexans.com. You will not find a single story on this, nor a single interview with Mallett. If O'Brien wanted to cut Mallett on Saturday and was willing to do it without a backup. What has stopped him from cutting him yesterday, or today? How can Smith override when you have a contractual agreement that you as HC have final say over the 53 man roster?
All good observations and questions. None of it passes the smell test.
This is one of those things that we cannot get a clear picture when looking directly at it, but we can begin to put together outlier pieces to start to form a picture. Sort of a process of elimination using logic, reason, and unfortunately, too many past experiences of watching shitty football teams implode in this city. This ain't our first rodeo. We know the smell of bullshit when it hits our collective noses.
Tolar's Ghost
Waterboy
That's a good question.
Neither he (Cowher) nor his agent ever commented about the job. But I got the impression from watching the CBS pregame show that he had some degree of affinity for the Texans. It was just the way he talked about them, even in the gloomiest of days under Kubiak. On one show he was almost effusive in his praise of McNair and the organization.
Maybe that meant nothing...But I think if McNair had gone after him, he could have gotten him.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
That was Dan Reeves. Doug Marrone (former Buffalo HC) is a close friend of O'Brien who was set to join the staff as an offensive consultant before getting the O-Line / Associate Head Coach job in Jacksonville.
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
I thought I heard Cowher say during one of those shows he was not leaving his comfy seat in the studio to return to coaching for any reason.
Tolar's Ghost
Waterboy
I saw that. But I'm pretty sure he was referring to any openings after that particular season.
But I doubt he's closed the door on it completely. For instance, if Coughlin ever leaves the Giants, I think their first call will be to Cowher.
As a major Steeler fan, although he reportedly had problems with Dan Rooney's son Art, I think his wife's cancer diagnosis - unreported at the time but revealed later - played a big part in his leaving the Steelers.
But I do think he'll coach one ore time.
But I doubt he's closed the door on it completely. For instance, if Coughlin ever leaves the Giants, I think their first call will be to Cowher.
As a major Steeler fan, although he reportedly had problems with Dan Rooney's son Art, I think his wife's cancer diagnosis - unreported at the time but revealed later - played a big part in his leaving the Steelers.
But I do think he'll coach one ore time.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
I won't argue with those results because it is startling. However, the fact is if you want a long term starter then prepare to spend a high pick on him. The bust rate is high, but that's because teams are so desperate for QB's and know they need to get them high. Just look at the current starters in the league and where they were drafted.
Sam Bradford (PHI) - #1
Andrew Luck (IND) - #1
Eli Manning (NYG) - #1
Peyton Manning (DEN) - #1
Cam Newton (CAR) - #1
Carson Palmer (ARZ) - #1
Alex Smith (KC) - #1
Matt Stafford (DET) - #1
Jameis Winston (TB) - #1
Marcus Mariota (TEN) - #2
Blake Bortles (JAX) - #3
Matt Ryan (ATL) - #3
Phillip Rivers (SD) - #4
Ryan Tannehill (MIA) - #8
Jay Cutler (CHI) - #11
Ben Roethlisberger (PIT) - #11
Joe Flacco (BAL) - #18
Aaron Rodgers (GB) - #24
Drew Brees (NO) - #32
Teddy Bridgewater (MIN) - #32
Andy Dalton (CIN) - #35
Derek Carr (OAK) - #36
Colin Kaepernick (SF) - #36
Russell Wilson (SEA) - #75
Josh McCown (CLE) - #81
Nick Foles (STL) - #88
Kirk Cousins (WAS) - #102
Tyrod Taylor (BUF) - #180
Tom Brady (NE) - #199
Ryan Fitzpatrick (NYJ) - #250
Brian Hoyer (HOU) - UDFA
Tony Romo (DAL) - UDFA
The top 5 picks in the draft make up .02% of the draft picks in the NFL Draft yet they account for 40.6% of current NFL starters. It's a trend. You want a franchise QB then prepare to invest. However, you have to do your homework as well and not blow the pick on a bust QB just because you need one. It goes without saying, but finding a QB in this era isn't easy.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I think a coach needs at least 3 years to have a decent shot at successfully implementing his system...unless he's completely lost the team...and 2-4 bad losses don't necessarily constitute completely losing the team to me..
in OB's case, the 2 biggest cases for him to remain HC would be that he's had to work with an established bum of a gm...and that he's still a young HC in terms of his tenure in the NFL..that's about it really..
Pete Carroll had been thoroughly mediocre his 2nd year in Seattle and had the likes of an over the hill Hasselbeck and Tavaris Jackson starting for him in those 2 years...also he had paid ungodly money to pry bum ass Matt Flynn away from GB I believe..he'd also made questionable drafting decisions too...or so everyone thought anyway.
His 3rd year it all got turned around in large part b/c of Wilson..but also b/c he had time to get his guys in place..Especially on defense.
I say that to say I'm willing to give him another year to see what he can do..but that's pending we get a new GM, a few coaching changes..(Crennel outta here) and we Overhaul this roster.
A new GM is non-negotiable though. That needs to happen regardless if OB is here or not.
in OB's case, the 2 biggest cases for him to remain HC would be that he's had to work with an established bum of a gm...and that he's still a young HC in terms of his tenure in the NFL..that's about it really..
Pete Carroll had been thoroughly mediocre his 2nd year in Seattle and had the likes of an over the hill Hasselbeck and Tavaris Jackson starting for him in those 2 years...also he had paid ungodly money to pry bum ass Matt Flynn away from GB I believe..he'd also made questionable drafting decisions too...or so everyone thought anyway.
His 3rd year it all got turned around in large part b/c of Wilson..but also b/c he had time to get his guys in place..Especially on defense.
I say that to say I'm willing to give him another year to see what he can do..but that's pending we get a new GM, a few coaching changes..(Crennel outta here) and we Overhaul this roster.
A new GM is non-negotiable though. That needs to happen regardless if OB is here or not.
silvrhand
All Pro
I agree I get that my point was that the trend is getting significantly worse year on year it seems. I probably don't have time to do a true comparison but a quick eye check is startling, which means basically we have a better chance of getting struck by lightning than find a good QB.. The sad thing is we really should have put the emotion away about Carr and drafted Derek.
noxiousdog
Rookie
O'Brien will get a third year. Romeo will be the sacrificial lamb. What I would love to know is who decided against Carr and/or Bridgewater at the top of the 2nd (and they could have moved up), and who decided to roll with our terrible safeties and middle linebackers. Those decisions more than any other is why you're getting this season.
I'm hoping the organization is waiting until the bye week to make some changes. Crennel clearly needs to be gone, and I wouldn't be opposed to letting O'Brein go then too.
I wish the Colts were running away with the division so it would be an easier decision for the organization to move on, but as long as they are one game out of first I don't see many major changes. The Colts play CAR, NE, and ATL the next 3 games and could very easily be 3-7 4 weeks from now with the Texans still one game out of first.
I wish the Colts were running away with the division so it would be an easier decision for the organization to move on, but as long as they are one game out of first I don't see many major changes. The Colts play CAR, NE, and ATL the next 3 games and could very easily be 3-7 4 weeks from now with the Texans still one game out of first.
chicagotexan2
Easterby = Little Finger/Cal = Fredo Corleone
^^^ that is the part I agree with the most. The season is finished. No matter how horrid the Colts are we will find a way to out-horrid them. But barring some unforeseen interest from a top flight (HC) I think he should get next season. I wouldn't cry if BoB got the boot but I can see why he'd stay.
Not that I care to defend Smith, but all he does is get the players the coaches want. He's like Jerry Jones before the 2nd championship. He doesn't take credit for the 1-15 season... quiet as a mouse after the 1st championship, but prouder than a peacock after the second.
We need a Jimmy Johnson. The true talent evaluator & architect of that dynasty. & Bill O'Brien ain't Jimmy Johnson.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Jimmy was brilliant. Took a bunch of mismatched pieces and forced them into unstoppable. Now there is a spot McNair could open up his checkbook.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
1. He has a valid contract.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Really? Do you follow professional sports at all and understand how contracts work? See: Ryan Mallett
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Being a voidable contract does not make it invalid. Hey, I'm reaching.
ps I hate NFL Contracts because they are unilaterally voidable in many instances.
speedfreek
All Pro
>Bill O'Brien deserves to continue as our HC because...
1) He won the team Halloween costume contest
2) His turducken recipe was _to die for_ last Thanksgiving
3) Hottest strippers _ever_ at the front office Christmas party
planned by BoB personally!
4) His traditional Scots language version of auld lang syne
is so emotional it leaves everyone in tears.
1) He won the team Halloween costume contest
2) His turducken recipe was _to die for_ last Thanksgiving
3) Hottest strippers _ever_ at the front office Christmas party
planned by BoB personally!
4) His traditional Scots language version of auld lang syne
is so emotional it leaves everyone in tears.