CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
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Report: Brian Hoyer to be named Texans starting QB
- Thread starter Playoffs
- Start date
sandman
Brexit Advisor
So we put this season's hopes on the shoulders of a project. 30 year old rookie development. That isn't making me feel any better.
I like your optimism about what he MIGHT be able to do. But until he does it, he hasn't done it. In fact, everything from this point forward will actually be to disprove his body of work over the last three seasons.
If he gets to that 60%, 20 TD's and 13 INT you mentioned, we can congratulate him for finally performing up to Fitz level. Woo Hoo!
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Dick Vermeil? Is that you?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
There's the bottom line - he's got a big jump to match Fitz before we even get to him being an upgrade.
+7.8 comp. %, +2.7 TD % (this is doubling what he had), -.4 INT%, +18.8 rating, +12.21 QBR
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Vegas would have a field day.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Cardinals beat writer offers new 2015 QBs rankings......oyer's new ranking is not encouraging.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Which has been my contention all along. When your starting QB is looking up at Fitz on the performance scale...
I have to stop this. It's making me want to drink and London is very accommodating.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Thanks for posting that but I can't in all good conscience "Like" that. Just can't bring myself to do it.
I'm not slagging the non-first rounder. I'm commenting on the fact that Hoyer apparently came from a laughing stock franchise, and Mallett is great because he beat that same franchise. Two conflicting views held in the mind at the same time - cognitive dissonance.
For what it is worth I haven't slagged Mallett either, unless not crowning him the obvious starter is slagging him. I don't think I've ever said he is a bad player, although I've pointed out that the fans like him more than O'Brien does. I used to wonder why people think he is so darn good, although I've been educated since then that no one thinks he's "very good", he's just that unknown Christmas present that everyone wants to unwrap.
Here's to hoping he isn't a pair of socks, because he is going to get unwrapped at some point this season.
I get what you're trying to say, but it is a logical reach to prove your point.
Cleveland Browns, Inc. is a joke franchise right now. Their consistent below-average history since expansion supports it. They've had two dozen QBs since then, and none of them are worth crap.
However, that said, their passing defense was pretty good last year. They've got a solid secondary, with one of the better CBs in the league in Joe Haden. Their pass defense was ranked 8th in passing yards allowed and 9th in points allowed per game. This is the defense that we can analyze against a healthy Mallet, and he did a solid job against them. It is a small sample size, but it is all we have right now.
I do not perceive cognitive dissonance, but you do and your perception is your reality. But, I disagree with your metrics and supporting data to arrive at such a conclusion. I think you conformed it to support your preconceived agenda and narrative.
Also, in that game, Mallett played well without having Foster in the lineup, something Fitz wasn't able to do before.
That is what gave me a little hope that maybe we had something here. But I guess we have to go through another season having OB show us that Hoyer wasn't given a fair chance to succeed in Cleveland.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
So OB knew who the starter would be before the Broncos game.
Doesn't sound like he has a ton of faith in Hoyer either.
Doesn't sound like he has a ton of faith in Hoyer either.
Additional metrics and supporting data that might be included to counter other "preconceived agendas and narratives" is that the Browns had the 32nd - dead last - rated run offense last year. This defense allowed even the Foster-less Texans to run for 213 yards. This ability to run might have helped out against the Brown's pass defense.
I'm not sure why I have a "preconceived agenda and narrative". I'm just supporting the conclusion I've reached, which is what everyone else is doing here. Is the supporting of Mallett and dissing of Hoyer just people supporting their own preconceived agendas and narratives about the quarterback situation?
For comparison's sake, I ran Fitzmagic's #'s last year vs. his career averages.
Here are Fitz' (rough) improvements over the mean - The green numbers indicate areas he improved sufficiently to meet the "big jump" standards above.
+5 Comp %
+1.5 TD %
-2.2 INT %
+20.4 Rating
+10.7 QBR
What I'm trying to get myself to believe, is that Hoyer can improve on his "1st" season's performance. I firmly believe Mallett can improve on his two games. I expect him to. Just trying to get there for Hoyer.
That was his first opportunity as "the" starter. Shouldn't I expect him to get better with more playing time under his belt?
The craw that I've got though, I mentioned Bridgewater got better as the year progressed. Hoyer (& Bortles) didn't.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
That's certainly one comparison point. Another would be how much was the change from 2013 to 2014:
+1.1 Comp %
+1.4 TD %
-1.2 INT %
+13.3 Rating
-.15 QBR
Hoyer is being asked to make a much bigger jump than Fitz did.
Are you saying that's unreasonable?
It all depends on how you want to cherry-pick the data.
One year change for a guy with 17 Career starts vs. a one year change for a guy with 174? An argument could be made that's it's far harder to get a guy to "change his stripes" with that many starts in the league.
The bottom line is that Fitz had career numbers in multiple categories...while playing on his 5th team. I'm FAR from a believer in Hoyer, but am hoping OB can work some magic again.
Sans Arian and with question marks lots of places, it's all I've got.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Just stating a fact.
Not cherry picking anything - it's the two latest sequential years. It shows the improvement last year from where he was prior to the Texans and OB. He wasn't at his career average when he walked into NRG.
I suspect that is generally true.
I wasn't implying Hoyer/OB can't/won't get there. Just giving an idea of the scope.
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The Hoyer to Fitz jump is a little garbled by the huge wrench in Fitz's 2014 stats, which is the Tennessee game. I don't generally like to discredit a players overall stats based on one big play or one big game, because that play/game did happen and they earned it. But to be fair that game was such an aberration for Fitz and not really indicative of the player he was or the leap Hoyer would have to make to meet Fitz's actual overall 2014 performance. Had Fitz had only half of that game we still would have won and Hoyer wouldn't need be looking at quite a climb to match his overall numbers.
Fitz w/ Tenn game - 197-312 2,483yds 17td-8int 95.3 rating
Fitz w/o Tenn game - 173-279 2,125yds 11td-8int 86.7 rating
Fitz w/ Tenn game - 197-312 2,483yds 17td-8int 95.3 rating
Fitz w/o Tenn game - 173-279 2,125yds 11td-8int 86.7 rating
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I think OB has more than earned the benefit of the doubt on whether or not he can get Hoyer to play better than he's played in his career.
-OB won games with a career journeyman/turd of a qb in Fitz....
-OB won games with a career back up qb with no starting experience to speak of in Mallet....
-OB won games with an undersized project of a qb from another coach's regime in Keenum.............who hadn't won any games in any of his other previous starts.
It's sad, but Brian Hoyer is the best qb OB's had to work with since touching down in Texas last year; from a comfortability, system knowledge and what Hoyer's been able to accomplish in the league standpoint anyway.
-OB won games with a career journeyman/turd of a qb in Fitz....
-OB won games with a career back up qb with no starting experience to speak of in Mallet....
-OB won games with an undersized project of a qb from another coach's regime in Keenum.............who hadn't won any games in any of his other previous starts.
It's sad, but Brian Hoyer is the best qb OB's had to work with since touching down in Texas last year; from a comfortability, system knowledge and what Hoyer's been able to accomplish in the league standpoint anyway.
Dread-Head
Hall of Fame
Why!?!?!?!
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
That certainly won't do him any favors, but he dealt with the exact same issue in cleveland....among other things. He's in a bit more stable situation here with more talent & OB certainly won't ask him to do as much as Pettine and the Browns did last year. He will be controlled much more as well.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
This is the situation OB chose so whatever happens, happens.
cland
Waterboy
Why do I feel like in the third game Hoyer's going go for multiple 3 & outs and throw 2 picks in a fruitless effort, and Mallet is going to light up New Orleans? Now this has nothing to do with my opinion of either QBs, but it just seems like this is the stuff that happens to the Texans--particularly at QB.
silvrhand
All Pro
this really makes no sense, I don't see Hoyer as an upgrade over Fitz, and if we pulled Fitz to get Mallet to jumpstart the offense, I see the same coming for Hoyer, hell maybe he's just lighting a match under Mallet, who knows O'Brian is proving to be quite the interesting motivator from what we see in Hard Knocks. Watching him piss off JJ Watt on command is rather interesting.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
If Hoyer is no better than Mallett, then you'll probably be right. But I certainly haven't reached that conclusion nor do I see significant support for it. But I do see RISK which is there with all players on the roster, regardless of preconceived notions.
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
From the Grantland Hard Knocks piece...
Here are all the quarterbacks who’ve taken a snap for the Houston Texans: David Carr (2002-2006), Dave Ragone (2003), Tony Banks (2003-2005), Sage Rosenfels (2006-2008), Matt Schaub (2007-2013), Rex Grossman (2009), Dan Orlovsky (2010), Matt Leinart (2011), Jake Delhomme (2011), T.J. Yates (2011-2013), Case Keenum (2012-2013), Ryan Fitzpatrick (2014), Ryan Mallett (2014-2015). Here are all the quarterbacks who have been very good:
ummm, Hoyer doesn't look so bad.
Here are all the quarterbacks who’ve taken a snap for the Houston Texans: David Carr (2002-2006), Dave Ragone (2003), Tony Banks (2003-2005), Sage Rosenfels (2006-2008), Matt Schaub (2007-2013), Rex Grossman (2009), Dan Orlovsky (2010), Matt Leinart (2011), Jake Delhomme (2011), T.J. Yates (2011-2013), Case Keenum (2012-2013), Ryan Fitzpatrick (2014), Ryan Mallett (2014-2015). Here are all the quarterbacks who have been very good:
ummm, Hoyer doesn't look so bad.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Looks at least right in line with........
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
Jeff Garcia wasn't listed or I didn't see his name?
Could have sworn he came into a game but I guess not.
Could have sworn he came into a game but I guess not.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
He watched 7 games as hard as he could.
Only missing Savage.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
I expect the Texans to win it every year, but in all honesty i feel we are farther away this year than the last few years. With that said my expectations are for the Texans to always win the Superbowl so......
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Yea but dude dont forget that this team had a 5000 yard passer while having the last rated rush attack. I know, I know it was under a different coach and doesnt really mean **** about whats goin on now, but hey it happened! LOL
MightyTExan
It's go time!
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
So, did I get it right from episode 3 of Hard Knocks that OB did use the 3rd and 3 QB sneak as an evaluation point for Mallett? I thought he mentioned something about it in the coaches meeting after the Broncos game.
Well, you know, it wasn't a problem for Mallett.
Without Foster, he got 210 yards from the other RBs.
The ST played about evenly with the opponents.
The D was killing it.
The protection was there.
The receivers were open at least 90% of the time.
I can't believe how people can watch that game and say that Mallett is the solution.
If Kruger had taken that ball in for a TD a la Watt, Mallett would have been an after-thought.
The best thing I can get out of that game for Mallett, even after I watched it again today, is that it's inconclusive.
And I'm being generous.
Just imagine when he has to see a muddy pocket.
I hoped that he would make improvements this year, because he does have a strong arm.
Right now, he might even get cut if Savage continues to show improvement ( dollar and sense playing a part.)
In this "business", you can't tell.
TBH, let's say I'm the HC.
Somehow I get these two guys, and now I make the decision to go with this guy.
I'm hooked with him no matter what.
That's the first thing.
Now I also carry a 3 that I drafted.
I would only carry the 3 if I think he has a better upside than the 2; I can"t keep throwing darts.
If the 2 doesn't quite match my expectations within his timeline and my young 3 is closing up; it is what it is.
At this moment, what is better for the Texans?
Hoping that Savage improve or that Mallett improve?
You tell me.
From the Brian Hoyer signed thread....
Warned you, I did.
So did Runner.
Waaay back when Hoyer was first signed in March.
Warned you, I did.
So did Runner.
Waaay back when Hoyer was first signed in March.
Wow Doc.... those anger management classes are really paying off for you.Here, let me let you experience some of that fun early!
DX-TEX
#TomSavageDontCare
Now I am convinced it was a test and he failed. Hopefully this Sunday and Mallett just says 'We did it your way. now Im unleashing the dragon!"
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I didn't hear anything about that.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
He did appear to make the decision before game 2 though. Not after.
We both sensed it back then.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Again, I don't see any direction. If you're in win now, why wasn't sorry as schaub given a chance to compete vs fitz last year. If OB thinks he can fix Hoyer, why didn't he try to fix schaub?
When I was at Texans camp with Pat Kirwan and Kevin, it was clear that Mallett opened the field a lot more than anyone else. Does he have to learn more touch on short passes? Sure, what strong armed qb doesnt? Dude threw a 25 yd out route in which the cb had 0 chance. He threw another deep breaking route in which the best cb on the team had no chance. Those kind of throws open up everything from what I saw.
When I was at Texans camp with Pat Kirwan and Kevin, it was clear that Mallett opened the field a lot more than anyone else. Does he have to learn more touch on short passes? Sure, what strong armed qb doesnt? Dude threw a 25 yd out route in which the cb had 0 chance. He threw another deep breaking route in which the best cb on the team had no chance. Those kind of throws open up everything from what I saw.
He's a football coach, not a shaman.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
C'mon guys its not that bad. If Hoyer doesn't work out, we can trade Mallet to Cleveland for Johnny Football!