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The Michael Sam Experiment

steelbtexan said:
Hi my name is Jay, I dont and never will play in the NFL. I'm a heterosexual.

I mean if it's that important to announce one's sexual orientation, should every conversation even out on the street begin with a conversation about ones sexual preferences?
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Difference is, youre not famous to my knowledge and being straight isn't what has largely been considered taboo.

How is this different than any other announcement someone makes? I don't need to know what team you're going to, just sign and I'll figure it out. Oh you've been cheating on your wife? Great, I don't care. You were molested as a child? The past is the past!!!

There's a reason people announce things. There's a reason people don't come out as straight (unless done to mock).

Why do we care what people announce? You can get famous and announce whatever you want about yourself. Wouldn't bother me one iota.
 
thunderkyss said:
Why? I'm sure there are guys in the NFL that "everyone" knows is gay.
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Difference between strongly suspecting and knowing.

Plus not everyone wants to live in the closets oil at Kerry Rhodes. He had some questionable pictures taken and it blew up.

Announcing it is a way to be ble to live your life openly without secrets.

If there are nfl guys that are openly gay and date and kiss men in public it'd be all over the place.

Hopefully eventually it won't be a thing, but right now it is.
 
steelbtexan said:
Hi my name is Jay, I dont and never will play in the NFL. I'm a heterosexual.

I mean if it's that important to announce one's sexual orientation, should every conversation even out on the street begin with a conversation about ones sexual preferences?
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thunderkyss said:
From what I understand, Michael Sam told all his teammates at Missu that he was gay & it wasn't a problem. What I think a lot of guys here are saying is that if you announce that you are gay, then the media will run with it & it will become a circus & that will be the problem.
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You don't even realize that you do announce it. You wear your wedding ring, have pictures of and talk about your wife/girlfriend, you bring them to parties and think nothing of it.

DB is right. Sam (see below) could have said nothing and acted just like you and then the first time he acted just like you but mentioned his boyfriend or brought him to a event it would have been news.

In this particular case there was going to be a story run so Sam announced it on his own terms so that he was open rather than outed.

If he were to have not told everyone he was gay & he was drafted... do you think it would be possible that he would have made the Rams 53? I don't know that his announcement is why he didn't make the 53, but I do believe there was more media coverage than there should have been, even when he went to the Cowboys.
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Yes the media hyped it. I think that is inevitable until there is an open gay on an NFL team. The military and the NFL are the two he-man bastions that are going to be news.

I don't think his being gay affected his making a team other than the pain of the extra attention for the team.

By the way (nothing to do with your post 'cak)..... past SEC Defensive players of the year:

2012 Jarvis Jones
2011 Morris Claiborne
2010 Patrick Peterson
2009 Rolando McClain
2008 Eric Berry
2007 Glenn Dorsey
2006 Patrick Willis
2005 Demeco Ryans
2004 David Pollack
2003 Chad Lavalais
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Yeah, the earlier comparison to QBs was off base.

thunderkyss said:
Why? I'm sure there are guys in the NFL that "everyone" knows is gay.
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Name them? There are no open ones which is different than some of their teammates know.
 
infantrycak said:
Name them? There are no open ones which is different than some of their teammates know.
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We didn't know that Michael Sam was gay. His whole team did. Those kids didn't let it bother them or affect the way they play football.

For all we know, there are guys whose teammates know... they've been told. They just know better than to make a big deal out of it.

One day the media is going to find out & try to make a big deal about it & they're going to say..." It's not a big deal, hasn't been a big deal, we don't know why you're trying to make it a big deal. He's a football player & a great teammate. What else is there to say?"

Again... the entire Missu football team knew. Michael Sam was openly gay at least his entire senior season & won the SEC defensive rookie of the year award. It's not like they were keeping it a secret, just didn't "announce" it.

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if we have a guy very soon say that he is gay & his team knew the entire time he was in the NFL..... it's a non-issue, it's happening in the NFL, we need to move on.
 
Jerry Smith Tight End of the Redskins (I cant make this stuff up) was openly gay. All of his teammates knew this and didn't have a problem with him being gay. In fact he was respected by them and by the Washington DC community.

BTW, he never held a press conference to announce his sexuality.
 
steelbtexan said:
Jerry Smith Tight End of the Redskins (I cant make this stuff up) was openly gay. All of his teammates knew this and didn't have a problem with him being gay. In fact he was respected by them and by the Washington DC community.

BTW, he never held a press conference to announce his sexuality.
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Y'all really need to grasp that there is a difference between some people know and being open. Smith never acknowledged he was gay. His Football Life episode was "double life as a closeted gay man and a star athlete."

Open is going about town, to public events, etc. with your partner on your arm.
 
kingtexan said:
It doesn't make me uncomfortable, its just stupid.

Anyone who thinks in modern society a gay person needs to announce it is an idiot.
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So if Michael Sam never says a word publicly about his sexual orientation, but is simply shown on television kissing his significant other after the draft announcement (like so many hetero players do), are you saying that the world goes on without comment on his homosexuality, and that you're okay with it because while his sexual preference becomes obvious even without making a point of it (as is the case with most straight players), he didn't hold a press conference?

I work with a gay dude and he is cool as hell. He doesn't go around talking about what he likes to do in the bedroom and expecting to be treated special because of it. He just does his job and interacts with his co-workers like a regular human being. No drama needed.
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I'd be interested in specific instances where you felt like he talked about what he likes to do in the bedroom, or where he indicated he expected to be treated special because of it.
 
ChampionTexan said:
So if Michael Sam never says a word publicly about his sexual orientation, but is simply shown on television kissing his significant other after the draft announcement (like so many hetero players do), are you saying that the world goes on without comment on his homosexuality, and that you're okay with it because while his sexual preference becomes obvious even without making a point of it (as is the case with most straight players), he didn't hold a press conference?



I'd be interested in specific instances where you felt like he talked about what he likes to do in the bedroom, or where he indicated he expected to be treated special because of it.
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Redundant questions, but I will bite.

(A) - If he doesn't announce it and kisses the dude then of course their will be comments ... so? Yes I am fine with whatever people choose to do in their personal life that doesn't involve hurting children.

(B) - The specific instance is that he announced he was gay ... which ONLY refers to what he likes to do in the bedroom. Where he indicated he was special is by HAVING A PRESS CONFERENCE! You see, non-special folks dont get to have those and talk about how they prefer to have sex.
 
More media hype headlines.

"Ex- Cowboys and Rams star Michael Sam thinks theres a reason he was cut"

STAR?
 
kingtexan said:
(B) - The specific instance is that he announced he was gay ... which ONLY refers to what he likes to do in the bedroom. Where he indicated he was special is by HAVING A PRESS CONFERENCE! You see, non-special folks dont get to have those and talk about how they prefer to have sex.
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Thints he's special? You need to look up the definition because unique or 1st certainly qualify. But the question is whether he asked for any privilege over any other player.
 
infantrycak said:
Thints he's special? You need to look up the definition because unique or 1st certainly qualify. But the question is whether he asked for any privilege over any other player.
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I'd be interested in specific instances where you felt like he talked about what he likes to do in the bedroom, or where he indicated he expected to be treated special because of it.
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Question wasn't if he "asked" to be treated different but rather "expected" to be treated different.

If you call a press conference, you are letting the world know what you expect by your actions.
 
kingtexan said:
Question wasn't if he "asked" to be treated different but rather "expected" to be treated different.

If you call a press conference, you are letting the world know what you expect by your actions.
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A distinction without merit. He knew he was going to be treated as special in terms of the media because piss and moan all you want that's what happens with 1sts. The only legitimate criticism would be if he expected special treatment as in an advantage over teammates.
 
infantrycak said:
A distinction without merit. He knew he was going to be treated as special in terms of the media because piss and moan all you want that's what happens with 1sts. The only legitimate criticism would be if he expected special treatment as in an advantage over teammates.
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Is your contention that he never received special treatment as an advantage over team-mates?
 
Double Barrel said:
You have been one of the loudest squealers on this issue as a Moral Crusader, so to see you say the above just screams ridiculous.

It is because of people like you that this topic is even an issue.
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I rebel against the acceptance of sin, not dealing with it on a daily basis because we are all sinners and we have to deal with it.
 
kingtexan said:
Gay men have every right to be anywhere they want.

What they don't have a right to do, is keep reminding me they are gay. I don't need to know that. I don't need them to "come out". To keep making a big deal out of being gay like it is something special. To have press conferences, parades and gay fests.

I don't need a reminder of what they shove down their throats ... shoved down mine.

Go about your business and just be .... don't be gay, don't be straight, don't be white, don't be black, don't be Republican, don't be Democrat, don't be Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist or Satanist ... just be.

Labels, sects, and categorizations are the undoing of humanity.
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We actually agree that it shouldn't have to be mentioned.

There should not be a big deal if someone is gay.

Bigotry makes it a big deal.
 
thunderkyss said:
Why? I'm sure there are guys in the NFL that "everyone" knows is gay.
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Why? Are you seriously asking that question? Do you really not understand or was it just rhetorical in nature?

Please show us an openly gay NFL player at the ESPY Awards or any other public event with their boyfriend.

Like ChampionTexan said, the first sight of an NFL player holding hands with another dude in public and this story blows up. Sam was just getting in front of it so he could control it instead of it controlling him.

Like most, I'm tired of hearing about it. But, we hear about it because it's a first. That's just the way things are in this world. Maybe 20 years from now it's a big yawn for the public.

Marshall said:
I rebel against the acceptance of sin, not dealing with it on a daily basis because we are all sinners and we have to deal with it.
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Then why is this particular sin the one that makes you squeal the loudest?
 
Double Barrel said:
Like most, I'm tired of hearing about it.
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Bingo. I don't want to hear about it any more either.

But, we hear about it because it's a first.
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And eventually it won't be and we won't hear about it.

Maybe 20 years from now it's a big yawn for the public.
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Premature backlash. The fight isn't close to done and those who do have the insight to see it will be lost are jumping the gun on declaring it over.

Then why is this particular sin the one that makes you squeal the loudest?
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Oooh, oooh, Mr. Kotter?
 
Who gives a damn about the rats ass whether Michael Sam is gay or not? The fact remains (irrespective of him being the SEC player of the year - or whatever), he was not, nor would ever be NFL linebacker material.... It happens all the time. It doesn't mean Sam was cut because he was gay.

Ultimately he was cut because at the end of the day, at the professional level he was "meh", meaning, nothing special..


That said, Good Luck to Michael Sam! I'm sure he will be successful in his future endeavours! Unless his future is attacking the NFL and his stance about being "black-balled" for being gay.
 
kingtexan said:
Wonder what the over/under is on him suing the league?

I will take the over ...
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infantrycak said:
And you'll be wrong another time.
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Yeah, I would take the under in that he doesn't have enough money through litigation with the NFL and secondarily, he's still getting press run from the SEC Championship game being on Misery's sideline. If he markets himself well enough, errr his "brand" he can still make a pretty penny. Suing the NFL would not be a smart course of action.
 
Texan_Bill said:
Who gives a damn about the rats ass whether Michael Sam is gay or not? The fact remains (irrespective of him being the SEC player of the year - or whatever), he was not, nor would ever be NFL linebacker material.... It happens all the time. It doesn't mean Sam was cut because he was gay.

Ultimately he was cut because at the end of the day, at the professional level he was "meh", meaning, nothing special..


That said, Good Luck to Michael Sam! I'm sure he will be successful in his future endeavours! Unless his future is attacking the NFL and his stance about being "black-balled" for being gay.
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yep. Sam was not given a shot with the Rams because he's gay, and he was not cut because of it. He just wasn't talented enough to make a roster. It's as simple as that.

I think it surprised a lot of folks how little the league and players cared about it. If nothing else, he opened the door for a future player to feel comfortable about it. Maybe it even revealed an atmosphere where a player does not feel like he has to announce it before being drafted.
 
Marc Sessler @MarcSesslerNFL
Michael Sam: 'I am very confident that I will be playing football this year somewhere.' Said he's open to playing in the CFL.

Michael Sam asked about Dancing with the Stars: 'Next question.'

Sam ready to walk away? 'Absolutely not. I'm young. ..I didn't play last year, but I'm still good. I don't have injuries, I'm good to play.'

Michael Sam: 'As long as I stay healthy and I still train, I think my chances of being on a team are quite high. In my own view.'

Michael Sam: 'I did the best I can. I did just as good if not better than the other guys here, so I'm pretty confident.' #VeteranCombine
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40 times reported over 5 seconds.
 
infantrycak said:
They have every right to state they are gay.

And your discomfort isn't their problem, it's yours.
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The discomfort level is shared by both sides of the issue. There are liberals that want Gays to come out of the closet while trying mightily to stuff Christians into a closet. I can't tell who offends people more - Tim Tebow or Michael Sam. Both are good athletes that believe in what they are doing.
 
Michael Sam is bound for the Canadian Football League.

Sam, the former Rams and Cowboys defensive end, has signed a two-year contract with the Montreal Alouettes, the club announced Friday.

“With the signing of Michael Sam, we have become a better organization today,” Alouettes General Manager Jim Popp said in a team issued-statement Friday. “Not only have we added an outstanding football player, we have added even a better person that brings dignity, character, and heart to our team.”
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Link
 
I'm still waiting on the first press release that says anything different.

“With the signing of player x, we have become a worse organization today,” Team X General Manager John Doe said in a team issued-statement Friday. “Not only have we added an outstandingly bad football player, we have added even a worse person that brings indignity, lack of character, and no heart to our team.”

Like this is really going to happen...
 
How many real professional players would just pick up and leave their team because of girlfriend/boyfriend, fiance or marital problems? I can't think of any examples. No, Sam doesn't come close to being a professional. He would possibly do better as a work-from-home envelope stuffer. That way he could chose his own schedule and coordinate better with his emotional "cycles" without adversely affecting the many others that would so strongly depend upon him.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
How many real professional players would just pick up and leave their team because of girlfriend/boyfriend, fiance or marital problems? I can't think of any examples. No, Sam doesn't come close to being a professional. He would possibly do better as a work-from-home envelope stuffer. That way he could chose his own schedule and coordinate better with his emotional "cycles" without adversely affecting the many others that would so strongly depend upon him.
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This is pretty much what I'm thinking as well. In the end Sam did more of a disservice to gay men who want to play in the NFL openly than a service. We all know there are gay men playing right now (and have played in the past) who simply kept it to themselves (whether it be simply because they wanted to keep their personal lives private or because of the prevalent sentiments of their era) but those men make a point of being professional football players first and foremost. Sam by coming out the way he did was first a "openly gay football player" and didn't do the things he needed to do just to get on a roster in the first place and be a pro (to borrow one of Gary Kubiak's favorite expressions). I don't think for a moment that Sam isn't in the NFL because he's gay and I don't think he isn't in the NFL because he's not physically capable of playing at this level. No, he's not Clowney in the measurables dept. He's not an athletic freak but men have made rosters with his kind of physical ability/stats. Those guys will their way into rosters by working harder than everyone else and being willing to do whatever is needed to make their dream come true.

Sam let himself get wrapped up in the role he adopted and never had a chance after that. He may have the ability to play at this level. He may have it "up here" (pointing to my head) but he doesn't have it "in here" (heart). Sometimes I think Sam acted like a guy who thought being the first openly gay football player would in today's social climate be enough to get him in the door. It did in a way but it won't keep him there.
 
Playoffs said:
"The last 12 months have been very difficult for me, to the point where I became concerned with my mental health," Sam tweeted Friday. "Because of this I am going to step away from the game at this time."​
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That's what NFL teams want to see in their prospective players. He's mentally weak and that's probably something that came across early to the teams who looked at him but they had to dance around it for fear of appearing homophobic.
 
DBCooper said:
Let's see how receptive these bigots are when someone comes out and can start in the NFL.
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Demanding equal treatment is CERTAINLY bigotry in the eyes of the professional victims. Let's just demand equal results by setting aside fair standards and demand unequal standards to achieve the desired results. Hey, it works in the Military. Of course, those standards demean the women who meet the higher pre PC standards. Now IF gay players played and succeeded on the merits of their play, isn't that more praiseworthy than someone expecting SPECIAL treatment based on societal, rather than football standards?
 
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Marshall said:
Demanding equal treatment is CERTAINLY bigotry in the eyes of the professional victims. Let's just demand equal results by setting aside fair standards and demand unequal standards to achieve the desired results. Hey, it works in the Military. Of course, those standards demean the women who meet the higher pre PC standards. Now IF gay players played and succeeded on the merits of their play, isn't that more praiseworthy than someone expecting SPECIAL treatment based on societal, rather than football standards?
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Who wanted to give him special treatment?

Either a guy can play or he cannot.

This is only a story because of the righteous bigots.

Other than that, he's just a guy.
 
DBCooper said:
Who wanted to give him special treatment?

Either a guy can play or he cannot.

This is only a story because of the righteous bigots.

Other than that, he's just a guy.
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The righteous "bigots" as you call them are not going out of their way to make a political statement. That's the opposing "Righteous" bigots.
 
I just used the ignore feature for the first time on this new forum software, which is something I never do as a mod. What I like is that I don't even see posts from someone you ignore. So, if a certain sanctimonious blowhard is bothering you, please let one of the other nice moderators know about it because I can no longer even see that he exists. :)
 
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