Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

ProFootballfocus.com says Texans' top 2 picks among 10 biggest "Reaches" in the Draft

I

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
[/6. Benardrick McKinney, LB, Mississippi State
#43 Overall to HoustonThis pick may have received the loudest howls of anguish in the PFF Draft War Room™. Linebacker in this draft class is a fantastic example of a position that contrasts production with athleticism. McKinney has the athleticism, but Paul Dawson, still on the board at this point, has the production. McKinney was the 42nd-graded linebacker in this class, Dawson was the first. McKinney notched 30 defensive stops over the season, Dawson notched 94. In coverage McKinney allowed a passer rating of 96.4 while Dawson just 50.7.

Even on the blitz, McKinney tallied four sacks and 11 total pressures while Dawson notched seven sacks and 28 total pressures. McKinney trounces Dawson when it comes to athleticism and measurables, but is a vastly inferior player on the field judging by college production.
***8. Kevin Johnson, CB, Wake Forrest
#16 Overall to Houston
Houston’s second big reach on this list was the first pick they made, selecting Kevin Johnson mid way through the first round.

It’s easy to see on tape what people like about Kevin Johnson. He’s a smooth athlete who mirrors receivers well and can definitely play. You also see some issues, though. Despite 4.5 timed speed, he looks to struggle to keep up with receivers, even those that run 4.5 themselves. He is routinely playing with a larger cushion than his teammate in off-coverage, perhaps buying himself room against speed he can’t live with. This all results in some very iffy coverage numbers. Johnson was the 65th-ranked draft-eligible corner by coverage grade this year. He allowed almost 60% of passes thrown his way to be caught (59.6, 91st among CBs), and yielded a passer rating of 74.6.

Add in a pretty ugly 14 missed tackles over the season and you’ve got a lot of question marks for a guy who was taken mid way through the first… at least a round or two higher than we believe he should have gone based on the tape.


QUOTE]
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/05/06/10-biggest-draft-reaches/
****
I dunno, does this merit a separate thread ? Maybe not - maybe they should be broken out to the individual threads for McKinney & Johnson ?
*****
I especially like the comments about Johnson's long speed something that does also concern some of us. Two positions where top-end speed can be a factor: WR & the corners who have to cover them. For example, Indy is now gonna have not one but two 4.3 receivers for our guys to cover. Yikes !
Click to expand...
 
I'm fairly certain they were both going to go in the rounds we picked them had we not drafted them.
 
Although I don't always agree with PFF, I do like their reasoning. What they don't take into acct is a Vrabel working with McKinney. I'm also worried about KJo's long speed.
 
Will be interesting to see how well PFF's new College Football Focus, which is where this originates, translates to the NFL.

Measuring college play vs. college players doesn't necessarily account for what teams draft for: traits over production. Many high production college players can't cut it versus the pros. And some college "no names" become stars in NFL.
 
Meh this article seems really dumb. Since when did college production decide where you are slotted in the NFL draft?

The NFL draft is based off production party, but that depends heavily upon what scheme you play in, play against, and how conferences play ball. IE the Big10 loves to run, the Big12 loves to pass, the SEC loves to play defense.

I especially like how they take McKinney's measurables and athleticism and poo poo it.

They didnt even touch on Dawson's character concerns.
 
I don't know anything about this guy but they said Cushing couldn't cover when he was drafted too and pre injury he was a pretty good LB in coverage.
 
Playoffs said:
Will be interesting to see how well PFF's new College Football Focus, which is where this originates, translates to the NFL.
Click to expand...
I think the stuff out of PFF needs to be taken with a grain of salt, also. I've seen a lot of dubious analysis out of them.

Dawson did look good in the pass happy Big 12. Put him in the run oriented SEC, and would he have had the same grades? And as you said, translating to the NFL is an even bigger question. I like productive players, too. But you have to take everything (including measurables) into consideration.

Personally, I sort of agree on the Kevin Johnson part. I have felt from the beginning that there were a group of 5 or 6 corners that were of similar ability after Waynes. But, there were 5 corners taken between the Texans pick at 16 and their original pick at 51. CB is a valued commodity in the draft, still. There may not have been a corner they liked at 51. I think that has to be considered, as well.
 
I am one of the people that is not at all happy with our draft. I shake my head everytime I think about it. I am mostly in agreement with the above statements by PFF. One of my main concerns about this draft is that most of the players we picked sem to be developmental players. I am concerned as to whether or not any of them will be able to help much this coming season. And what really bothers me is that we were in dire need of offensive lineman, particularly center.
I know many will like the idea of what the Texans did this draft, but we needed to draft for need in a few places, and in those places, we needed people who could step up this year. In my opinion we didn't do either
 
GNTLEWOLF said:
I am one of the people that is not at all happy with our draft. I shake my head everytime I think about it. I am mostly in agreement with the above statements by PFF. One of my main concerns about this draft is that most of the players we picked sem to be developmental players. I am concerned as to whether or not any of them will be able to help much this coming season. And what really bothers me is that we were in dire need of offensive lineman, particularly center.
I know many will like the idea of what the Texans did this draft, but we needed to draft for need in a few places, and in those places, we needed people who could step up this year. In my opinion we didn't do either
Click to expand...

Every college player is a developmental player to some extent, though some more than others. But I would be surprised if none of the class receives substantial playing time this year.
 
10 Biggest Draft Steals
As it’s our first year of evaluating college players we recognize our limitations. We know our big board won’t accurately capture all the relevant information about a prospect with just a single year’s data. That’s fine by us as we believe in game performance above all else and while we’d like previous years of data, we’ve still watched a full year on every player in the draft.

With that said, the following players’ production in 2014 and translatable skills simply outdid their draft position from what we saw and think each is a steal where they were taken.
...
9. Jaelen Strong, WR, Arizona State
#70 Overall to Houston

Wide receivers didn’t come off the board at the feverish pace we quite expected and the Texans were the benefactor Strong has the measurables, the production, and the ball skills to be a first rounder, yet 69 players and 10 receivers came off the board before him. This is definitely another head scratcher as it’s safe to say we liked him far more than the 11th receiver in the class.
Click to expand...
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/05/07/10-biggest-draft-steals/



Blake said:
They didnt even touch on Dawson's character concerns.
Click to expand...
They would have no access to the real truths on character, intangibles.
 
KInda validates my feeling about the 1st round pick and scares me about the 2nd.

IMO college numbers are nice and all, but the competition in the NFL is on another level. Using measureables as a negative is a somewhat flimsy argument given that for as many flameout college studs, there are gym rats that will themselves to succeed.
 
Uncle Rico said:
KInda validates my feeling about the 1st round pick and scares me about the 2nd.

IMO college numbers are nice and all, but the competition in the NFL is on another level. Using measureables as a negative is a somewhat flimsy argument given that for as many flameout college studs, there are gym rats that will themselves to succeed.
Click to expand...

How did they use measurables as a negative?
 
His terrible Combine results along with the fact that he came up with a "notorious" hamstring injury in the 40 is not exactly a great sign to carry into the start of an NFL carrier.

02/24/2015 - Five Takeaways from the NFL Combine DL/LB Drills: 3. Did Paul Dawson forget to eat his Wheaties? The tape says that Dawson is one of this year's best three down linebackers, but he certainly didn't look the part of a top 50 selection on Sunday, clocking in at a startlingly-slow 4.93 seconds in the 40-yard dash after weighing in shorter than expected at 6-foot, 235 pounds. The poor showing wasn't limited to just the 40-yard dash - complicating the narrative that perhaps Dawson just lost his technique on the drill or is faster on the field than the track due to good instincts. Dawson also showed very little explosiveness in the leaps. His 28" vertical ranked dead last among linebackers tested Sunday and would have ranked fifth worst among the defensive linemen. It was a full 2.5 inches shorter than that of Washington's 6-2, 339 pound nose guard Danny Shelton.
Click to expand...
- Rob Rang, NFLDraftScout.com

The 4.75 40 he ran at his TCU pro day one month later was still quite poor for a 235 pounder.
 
Some more insight into Dawson.

Dawson’s wretched performance raised more questions about the Skyline product who failed a drug test as a sophomore and would get under TCU coach Gary Patterson’s skin by arriving late to meetings and not following instructions.

“That was every day,” TCU cornerback Kevin White said. “That was every day. He’s wearing his earrings. Forgot his helmet, something like that.”

It’s a behavioral pattern that Dawson said afflicted him during his first two seasons on campus but was eradicated when he dropped friends — including some teammates — who he felt influenced his poor judgment.

The presence of his 2-year-old daughter pushed him to tackle his problems with the same vigor he flashed while in pursuit of playmakers on the opposite side of the ball.

“I couldn’t provide for her … just making those wrong decisions,” Dawson said.

It was a sobering realization. But poor choices continued to dog Dawson, even after he made strides toward cleaning up his act. Before heading to Indianapolis last month, Dawson decided to add weight to his frame that’s a shade under six feet.

Freighted with extra pounds, he tweaked his hamstring during his first attempt at the 40-yard dash and underperformed in the other drills. The combine disaster was so resounding that Dawson was forced to pooh-pooh the importance of measurables and remind others of his actual credentials.

“My game tape speaks very well, very highly of me,” Dawson said with a smile.

But on Friday, in the cozy, familiar TCU facility where he practiced countless times, Dawson was forced to relive the Indianapolis nightmare. Five pounds lighter, he was back sprinting in a straight line and leaping as high as his legs would allow him with cameras tracking his every move.

On this occasion, he did slightly better. His 40-yard dash time was clocked between 4.78 and 4.82 seconds. His vertical leap was 30 inches. And the NFL cognoscenti on hand seemed to like how he performed in several agility tests.
Click to expand...
link
 
Let's keep in mind that Dawson was coached by Gary Patterson and Dick Bumpas while McKinney was coached by Geoff Collins. No offense to Coach Collins, but he's not in the same stratosphere as Gary Patterson or Dick Bumpas as far as being a defensive coach goes.
 
The trade-up for McKinney was a real head scratcher to me. You had a jumble of ILB there with McKinney, Perriman and Kendricks. You figure they could have waited for one of those guys to fall to them instead of losing picks to move up and take one.

For whatever reason, they really liked McKinney.

Doesn't make sense to me--but, then again, I don't have all the information.

So, whatever. I'll defer and hope they actually got it right this time.
 
nero THE zero said:
The trade-up for McKinney was a real head scratcher to me. You had a jumble of ILB there with McKinney, Perriman and Kendricks. You figure they could have waited for one of those guys to fall to them instead of losing picks to move up and take one.

For whatever reason, they really liked McKinney.

Doesn't make sense to me--but, then again, I don't have all the information.

So, whatever. I'll defer and hope they actually got it right this time.
Click to expand...

All of those ILB's went before our original pick. We had to trade up no matter what to get one of them.
 
nero THE zero said:
The trade-up for McKinney was a real head scratcher to me. You had a jumble of ILB there with McKinney, Perriman and Kendricks. You figure they could have waited for one of those guys to fall to them instead of losing picks to move up and take one.

For whatever reason, they really liked McKinney.

Doesn't make sense to me--but, then again, I don't have all the information.

So, whatever. I'll defer and hope they actually got it right this time.
Click to expand...

I feel the same.

If past drafts have taught us anything it's that it's nowhere near an exact science. And it takes time to properly and accurately evaluate a draft class. This is basically a post draft mock and not much else. They may be right but it's way too early to say someone was a reach.
 
Lucky said:
I think the stuff out of PFF needs to be taken with a grain of salt, also. I've seen a lot of dubious analysis out of them.

Dawson did look good in the pass happy Big 12. Put him in the run oriented SEC, and would he have had the same grades? And as you said, translating to the NFL is an even bigger question. I like productive players, too. But you have to take everything (including measurables) into consideration.

Personally, I sort of agree on the Kevin Johnson part. I have felt from the beginning that there were a group of 5 or 6 corners that were of similar ability after Waynes. But, there were 5 corners taken between the Texans pick at 16 and their original pick at 51. CB is a valued commodity in the draft, still. There may not have been a corner they liked at 51. I think that has to be considered, as well.
Click to expand...

Personally i say get our fast WR, at 16, get our CB in #2. Then draft defensive needs the rest of the draft.

Honestly this is the least excited i have ever felt about any draft EVER. And the only one that left me scratching my head after just about every pick.
 
IDEXAN said:
I especially like the comments about Johnson's long speed something that does also concern some of us. Two positions where top-end speed can be a factor: WR & the corners who have to cover them. For example, Indy is now gonna have not one but two 4.3 receivers for our guys to cover. Yikes !
Click to expand...

I find it funny they list Bud Dupree as an even bigger reach.
 
EllisUnit said:
Personally i say get our fast WR, at 16, get our CB in #2. Then draft defensive needs the rest of the draft.

Honestly this is the least excited i have ever felt about any draft EVER. And the only one that left me scratching my head after just about every pick.
Click to expand...
Combine this draft with our UDFA signings and I feel really good about it. I don't know if the coaching staff will ever give it any thought, but Strong was most productive in college playing in the slot. We could still go for speed outside, next year, and play Strong inside. Probably won't happen, but something to think about.
 
infantrycak said:
2014

DeAndre Hopkins 20 20+ yd receptions, 6 40+

T.Y. Hilton 21 20+ yd receptions 6 40+

This obsession with a few hundredths of a second in the 40 is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

I too wanted a burner (either at wr or db) with 4.3 speed

But I don't get being upset that we didn't get one in the first or second round when we got a 4.4 guy that was graded higher than all the burners in the third
 
GNTLEWOLF said:
I am one of the people that is not at all happy with our draft. I shake my head everytime I think about it. I am mostly in agreement with the above statements by PFF. One of my main concerns about this draft is that most of the players we picked sem to be developmental players. I am concerned as to whether or not any of them will be able to help much this coming season. And what really bothers me is that we were in dire need of offensive lineman, particularly center.
I know many will like the idea of what the Texans did this draft, but we needed to draft for need in a few places, and in those places, we needed people who could step up this year. In my opinion we didn't do either
Click to expand...
You are so right. PFF was right too, you know. Do the Texans have any excuse for not signing La'el Collins? As a UDFA he would have been cheap, and he could have been cut later if charged with a felony. It didn't cost much to take a chance for a drastically needed position.
 
Seegara said:
You are so right. PFF was right too, you know. Do the Texans have any excuse for not signing La'el Collins? As a UDFA he would have been cheap, and he could have been cut later if charged with a felony. It didn't cost much to take a chance for a drastically needed position.
Click to expand...


It's not as simple as just signing him though. We could have placed a call with his agent and been told he was taking offers from N.O. and Dallas already and any chance could have been shot. Who knows.
 
Seegara said:
You are so right. PFF was right too, you know. Do the Texans have any excuse for not signing La'el Collins? As a UDFA he would have been cheap, and he could have been cut later if charged with a felony. It didn't cost much to take a chance for a drastically needed position.
Click to expand...

Who says they didn't try? It was reported about 24 teams tried.
 
Mollywhopper said:
It's not as simple as just signing him though. We could have placed a call with his agent and been told he was taking offers from N.O. and Dallas already and any chance could have been shot. Who knows.
Click to expand...

Or... OB doesn't believe OL is as dire a need as others do. if I were to judge by what we did in FA, the draft, & UDFAs I'm inclined to believe that to be the case.
 
I've done a little looking around at profootballfocus.com and I've never come away particularly impressed with them or what they had to say. I'm not saying they're idiots or don't know anything. I'm just saying that I don't put much stock in their opinions one way or another.
 
thunderkyss said:
Or... OB doesn't believe OL is as dire a need as others do. if I were to judge by what we did in FA, the draft, & UDFAs I'm inclined to believe that to be the case.
Click to expand...
I think if Texans have a chance to pick up an UFA with a pre-draft ranking of first round, it should be attempted whether team needs that position or not. I think they probably tried. I can't see Smith or OBrien passing on Collins. I can see Collins passing on Houston not wanting to sit behind starters.
 
thunderkyss said:
Or... OB doesn't believe OL is as dire a need as others do. if I were to judge by what we did in FA, the draft, & UDFAs I'm inclined to believe that to be the case.
Click to expand...

OB replaced the OL coach right after the season. Whatever issues he identified with our OL last season he probably believes was a coaching issue rather than a player issue.
 
TheRealJoker said:
OB replaced the OL coach right after the season. Whatever issues he identified with our OL last season he probably believes was a coaching issue rather than a player issue.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah that makes perfect sense as to why Newton developed above most here's expectations.
 
beerlover said:
Oh yeah that makes perfect sense as to why Newton developed above most here's expectations.
Click to expand...

Coach's always believe they can turn coal into gold , then draft coal to prove it .:runaway:
Very little help was given the offense because OB believes he can turn trash into an NFL team .:texflag:
 
Goldensilence said:
Pretty much what I took away as well.
Click to expand...

Even if he doesn't think it's a big need, why not try to sign a high draft pick prospect who fell out of the draft for what seems like no reason at the moment? Way more likely that they reached out, as many other teams did, but he chose Dallas.
 
thunderkyss said:
Or... OB doesn't believe OL is as dire a need as others do. if I were to judge by what we did in FA, the draft, & UDFAs I'm inclined to believe that to be the case.
Click to expand...

I completely agree that that is the likely scenario. I'm willing to give OB benefit of the doubt that he's got a pretty good feel about his current personnel. Especially considering he's taken some pretty swift swings at addressing needs all throughout free-agency and the draft.
 
paycheck71 said:
Even if he doesn't think it's a big need, why not try to sign a high draft pick prospect who fell out of the draft for what seems like no reason at the moment? Way more likely that they reached out, as many other teams did, but he chose Dallas.
Click to expand...

Here's what I do know about Collins. Every GM and teams as a whole passed through 7 rounds. Not a coincidence. Collins and his agent seemed imo framed what was already a bad situation even more poorly.

What seems even more odd is they alreadyhave a strong enough OL to where it's going to be hard to make an immediate impact. Why not go to a team that has a better chance of an impact so he can maximize his second contract?
 
Simply put the McNair's deemed Collins not Texans worthy. Otherwise a 7th rd pick would've been used on Collins.
 
steelbtexan said:
Simply put the McNair's deemed Collins not Texans worthy. Otherwise a 7th rd pick would've been used on Collins.
Click to expand...

Once he fell below 3rd, his people made it known that he's not signing with anyone who picks him, sits out the year and enters the draft again next year. Would have been a waste of a 7th rounder.
 
Goldensilence said:
Here's what I do know about Collins. Every GM and teams as a whole passed through 7 rounds. Not a coincidence. Collins and his agent seemed imo framed what was already a bad situation even more poorly.

What seems even more odd is they alreadyhave a strong enough OL to where it's going to be hard to make an immediate impact. Why not go to a team that has a better chance of an impact so he can maximize his second contract?
Click to expand...

He got passed on in the high rounds because the police wanted to talk to him about the murder of his pregnant ex girlfriend. Since then he's been ruled out as a suspect, I think. Basically, terrible timing for him. And like I just mentioned, once he wasn't picked in the top 3 rounds, he wasn't going to sign with whoever picked him. Not sure what the logic behind that is, but that's the word he and his people put out there.
 
Goldensilence said:
Here's what I do know about Collins. Every GM and teams as a whole passed through 7 rounds. Not a coincidence. Collins and his agent seemed imo framed what was already a bad situation even more poorly.

What seems even more odd is they alreadyhave a strong enough OL to where it's going to be hard to make an immediate impact. Why not go to a team that has a better chance of an impact so he can maximize his second contract?
Click to expand...

It's all about the guaranteed monies. Jerrah made him an instant millionaire. He's probably the only one that offered that.
 
paycheck71 said:
Once he fell below 3rd, his people made it known that he's not signing with anyone who picks him, sits out the year and enters the draft again next year. Would have been a waste of a 7th rounder.
Click to expand...

Some people are teachable and some are not. I'd say you're probably dealing with the latter.
 
infantrycak said:
2014



DeAndre Hopkins 20 20+ yd receptions, 6 40+



T.Y. Hilton 21 20+ yd receptions 6 40+



This obsession with a few hundredths of a second in the 40 is ridiculous.
Click to expand...


While I agree with your point, I somewhat disagree with your usage of these stats to support it for a couple of reasons.

One, I'd be interested to know how many of those 40+ yards receptions went for 50+, 60+, etc. and/or touchdowns.

Two, virtually any objective opinion would agree that Hilton is the superior deep threat, using the eyeball test in lieu of stats, and I'm pretty confident you're not stating that Hopkins is equal to him as a deep threat despite the stats you cite.
 
thunderkyss said:
Just like the Belichick & Carol thought he wasn't Patriot/Seahawks worthy.
Click to expand...

Jerrah saw him as Cowboy worthy and the Cowboys will be better off with Collins signing with them.

Does anybody really thinking the Texans were seriously looking at signing Collins?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top