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Why not QB?

D

Dean1818

Noob
Hello classy Texan fans!

This offseason seems too long...... ready to get back to the great Colts/Texans rivalry.

I am just curious, why wouldn't the Texans trade into an earlier spot and take Mariota ?

It would seem with all of the other improvements that the Texans team has made, the team would finally move to take a franchise type QB to develop.

It would seem to me to be the next logical step.

Thoughts?
 
It would depend on the cost of the trade, how far we had to trade up, and whether or not the coaches/GM feel player X is worth trading up for. It's never happened with the Texans but that doesn't mean that it will never happen, the right guy just hasn't come along. I think this is a draft day decision.

Personally I would trade up for Mariota if he fell to the #8 or #9 spot where it would cost us this years 1st and 2nd round pick, but I wouldn't trade away next years picks. I don't like trading away the future, but that also would depend on the player I'm trading for.
 
I feel strongly that more work is needed before our team is ready to carry a rookie QB. The question marks at Centre and LG make me nervous about his protection. Also we've seen Duane Brown's play drop off some the last couple of years, sure we can give him some leeway because he battled some injuries and has rubbish play from Left Guard the past 2 seasons, but he's at a point in his career where if you fix what's going on inside of him, you have the possibility that he can't then raise his game once more to be a good to great LT.

Then you have the receivers issue, DHop has been a great pick, but he's just lost his biggest help, a HOF guy on the other side drawing away cover. No TE dump valve also.

You draft a guy like Mariota and you essentially throw him to the dogs unless Ben Jones makes a better centre than he does LG, XSF has to work out perfectly. And then you need a bunch of receivers to step up big.

And as much as we've improved on D, that LB corps has the potential to be utterly horrible.

All in all, I feel it's a year to draft pieces for the O, allow Mallett the opportunity to show us what he's got, explore the possibility of making a play for a big name QB during next years' QB heavy FA class, and, if needed, mortgage a draft on your young stud next offseason or the one after.

We've waited this long, why not put whoever we end up with in a position to succeed when we do make the investment.
 
I would be all for that - QB is such an important position, and to get one you really have to be lucky and/or pay a high price. Last season I was all for taking Bridgewater with the #1 pick even after his horrible proday - just after looking at his tape. To me that was a gamble worth taking. Now the do-over mock draft has us doing just that.

But it won't happen. We have Mallett, Hoyer and even Savage - thinking is probably one of them will work out. And maybe the thinking is: we can win without an elite QB. I have my doubts about both. There is a reason why we don't have to pay them starting QB money. Of course we could get lucky with them, but I'd like to increase my chances by somehow getting a high talented QB high in the draft.
 
It just seems that for every year you are not developing the next franchise QB, it is another year, where the team pushes out moving up to be an elite team.

Many if not most of the pieces are in place for this team to be in the playoffs

The franchise QB would seem to be the cornerstone that you would want to get.


I realize that there are teams that have won the SB without an elite QB, but...... they are few and far between.


If i were the Texan owner, I would be moving into the 6th spot and taking Mariota...........

It would cost this and next years first, and probably a 2nd....... BUT.....

It would be a legitimate step to being a team that goes to the playoffs every year


In Indy, we took the QB first...... then still struggling to fill the gaps around the QB.

We will offer our next 2 firsts for Watt :)
 
I seriously doubt we'll carry 4 QBs. Hoyer's paid enough that it would be stupid to cut him. So there's a good chance he is here for 2015.

There's a bit of an investment in Mallett, nothing to stop us from cutting him, but that would shock a lot of people.

Cutting Tom Savage would also be shocking, but not out of the question.

I don't think it's out of the question, just don't think it's likely.
 
thunderkyss said:
I seriously doubt we'll carry 4 QBs. Hoyer's paid enough that it would be stupid to cut him. So there's a good chance he is here for 2015.

There's a bit of an investment in Mallett, nothing to stop us from cutting him, but that would shock a lot of people.

Cutting Tom Savage would also be shocking, but not out of the question.

I don't think it's out of the question, just don't think it's likely.
Click to expand...

Dont you think that you should have ONE QB that is on the roster that has a decent shot to develop into a franchise QB?
 
Dean1818 said:
Hello classy Texan fans!

This offseason seems too long...... ready to get back to the great Colts/Texans rivalry.

I am just curious, why wouldn't the Texans trade into an earlier spot and take Mariota ?

It would seem with all of the other improvements that the Texans team has made, the team would finally move to take a franchise type QB to develop.

It would seem to me to be the next logical step.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, that move requires an assumption that either of the two of Winston or Mariota are franchise QBs and would be significantly better than either Mallett or Hoyer in the next three or four years. I do not believe this to be true. But then again, I am not one of the typical fans who believe that the team begins and ends with the QB.

But I'm sure you will find plenty of fans who will agree with you.
 
Why not QB?

Because there's not a QB in this draft that's worth trading up for? I wouldn't take Winston or Mariota even if they fell to 16.

If there's an Andrew Luck type of QB running around out there, somebody let me know.

And TK, you yourself said, if we can't get that monster QB, a monster OL with a good defense would be just fine, and I agree with that.
 
Dean1818 said:
Dont you think that you should have ONE QB that is on the roster that has a decent shot to develop into a franchise QB?
Click to expand...

I'm just saying it looks like the Texans didn't think they had a shot at the two QBs worth a darn in this draft. they've already set their roster & adding a QB just doesn't make sense. I can't imagine using a 2nd or third after drafting Savage in the 4th last year. A first rounder I could see, but not after signing two FAs

& I think a QB becoming a franchise QB has just as much to do with how he's developed than where he was drafted.
 
LikeMike said:
....QB is such an important position, and to get one you really have to be lucky and/or pay a high price.....
Click to expand...

I don't know about that. I've heard that wrecking your roster and starting a scrub all year while putting your coaching staff in an impossible position can also get you a shot at one.
 
Marcus said:
Why not QB?

And TK, you yourself said, if we can't get that monster QB, a monster OL with a good defense would be just fine, and I agree with that.
Click to expand...

Absolutely & I'm pretty particular as to what I want my QB to look like. Phillip Rivers. & both Mallett & Savage look more like Rivers than Mariota.

I'd be happy with Winston... but not so much that I'd pay what it would cost to move up to get him. Two firsts & Hoyer... I might do that. Winston looks like he could be the next Rivers/Stafford.
 
Hervoyel said:
I don't know about that. I've heard that wrecking your roster and starting a scrub all year while putting your coaching staff in an impossible position can also get you a shot at one.
Click to expand...

Just think, in three years you'd have $10M of cap space.
 
thunderkyss said:
Absolutely & I'm pretty particular as to what I want my QB to look like. Phillip Rivers. & both Mallett & Savage look more like Rivers than Mariota.

I'd be happy with Winston... but not so much that I'd pay what it would cost to move up to get him. Two firsts & Hoyer... I might do that. Winston looks like he could be the next Rivers/Stafford.
Click to expand...

And then end up spending most of his career suspended by the league. Does Winston strike you as the type of guy who would do well unsupervised with a boat load of money?
 
Dean1818 said:
Hello classy Texan fans!

This offseason seems too long...... ready to get back to the great Colts/Texans rivalry.

I am just curious, why wouldn't the Texans trade into an earlier spot and take Mariota ?

It would seem with all of the other improvements that the Texans team has made, the team would finally move to take a franchise type QB to develop.

It would seem to me to be the next logical step.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Or we could just lose every game on purpose the next time an Andrew Luck is in the draft. :kitten:
 
TEXANRED said:
And then end up spending most of his career suspended by the league. Does Winston strike you as the type of guy who would do well unsupervised with a boat load of money?
Click to expand...

I don't know him. Never met him. From where I sit, what I know, I don't think so. Which is why I do not advocate trading up to get him. If he was squeaky clean I'd be banging the table.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm just saying it looks like the Texans didn't think they had a shot at the two QBs worth a darn in this draft. they've already set their roster & adding a QB just doesn't make sense. I can't imagine using a 2nd or third after drafting Savage in the 4th last year. A first rounder I could see, but not after signing two FAs

& I think a QB becoming a franchise QB has just as much to do with how he's developed than where he was drafted.
Click to expand...

I think if Mariota gets past the Jets at #6 then the Texans need to be doing some damn hard thinking about trading up to get him (actually the 1st, 2nd and 3rd might get him at #6). 8, 9, 10 and 11 won't take him for themselves. 7 is questionable (Cutler can be cut after 2015 relatively painlessly). There's a trade to be had in there for him if wanted.

But I think TK is correct and the Texans have set their QB roster almost in stone for 2015 already.
 
Dean1818 said:
I am just curious, why wouldn't the Texans trade into an earlier spot and take Mariota ?
Click to expand...

It assumes two things:

A) The Texans possess enough picks / talent to trade to move up high enough.

B) Bill O'Brien believes that Mariota would be a "good fit" in his offense.
 
We've just been unlucky. Our awful seasons did not align with a talented QB early in the draft. (Except for the 2006 VY season which I believe we made the right choice on). Our team doesn't tank seasons on purpose ... you know like the Colts in the wake of the Manning departure. We are just bad in our bad seasons (or exceedingly injured)
 
Dean1818 said:
This offseason seems too long...... ready to get back to the great Colts/Texans rivalry.
Click to expand...

"Great" from your perspective. Not much of a "rivalry" from our perspective.

Hervoyel said:
I don't know about that. I've heard that wrecking your roster and starting a scrub all year while putting your coaching staff in an impossible position can also get you a shot at one.
Click to expand...

If only our owner was unscrupulous enough to pull such a stunt...
 
infantrycak said:
I think if Mariota gets past the Jets at #6 then the Texans need to be doing some damn hard thinking about trading up to get him (actually the 1st, 2nd and 3rd might get him at #6). 8, 9, 10 and 11 won't take him for themselves. 7 is questionable (Cutler can be cut after 2015 relatively painlessly). There's a trade to be had in there for him if wanted.

But I think TK is correct and the Texans have set their QB roster almost in stone for 2015 already.
Click to expand...
I think a trade is possible, but if Mariota this year giving up God knows what to get up to 8 or 9, then why not Bridgewater last year who they could have had for a tiny trade up? I can't make sense of the Texans QB strategy.

Jason Braddock made a series of tweets yesterday indicating he thought the Texans are deliberately remaining flexible and that a trade may be plausible.

f45fa2de8195b08a0b4d45ee7e502a2a.jpg


And I think there maybe something to this. They don't exactly seem to be instilling confidence in Mallett, which is probably what I'd have done - declare him the starter, tell him he's the guy, and then review later. Has this open competition strategy been successful historically?
 
markn said:
I think a trade is possible, but if Mariota this year giving up God knows what to get up to 8 or 9, then why not Bridgewater last year who they could have had for a tiny trade up? I can't make sense of the Texans QB strategy.

Jason Braddock made a series of tweets yesterday indicating he thought the Texans are deliberately remaining flexible and that a trade may be plausible.

f45fa2de8195b08a0b4d45ee7e502a2a.jpg


And I think there maybe something to this. They don't exactly seem to be instilling confidence in Mallett, which is probably what I'd have done - declare him the starter, tell him he's the guy, and then review later. Has this open competition strategy been successful historically?
Click to expand...
I caught this yesterday and gave it some thought then when I read he was basing this "theory" on Hoyers jersey being on sale at the team website and Mallett's not being on sale I just shook my head and moved on

Love how everyone says "just get a franchise QB! trade up in the draft!" Yeah that always works so well. Looks over at Washington and IRG 3......when you don't have the franchise guy at QB you do what the seahawks did and you build up the rest of your roster. Which the Texans are doing
 
DX-TEX said:
I caught this yesterday and gave it some thought then when I read he was basing this "theory" on Hoyers jersey being on sale at the team website and Mallett's not being on sale I just shook my head and moved on
Click to expand...
Ok, missed that, probably worth ignoring as you say.
 
Dean1818 said:
Dont you think that you should have ONE QB that is on the roster that has a decent shot to develop into a franchise QB?
Click to expand...

Who's to say we don't already?
O'Brien now has three QBs that he handpicked and who know his system, why blow several picks on a QB until he sees that none of these guys are franchise material. Right now I believes O'Brien thinks he has his guy, If he didn't, I would hope our offseason (so far) would have looked very different.
 
infantrycak said:
I think if Mariota gets past the Jets at #6 then the Texans need to be doing some damn hard thinking about trading up to get him (actually the 1st, 2nd and 3rd might get him at #6). 8, 9, 10 and 11 won't take him for themselves. 7 is questionable (Cutler can be cut after 2015 relatively painlessly). There's a trade to be had in there for him if wanted.

But I think TK is correct and the Texans have set their QB roster almost in stone for 2015 already.
Click to expand...


What would you think about trading our first, second, & Mallett? Do you think that might entice one of those that might take a QB, but aren't sold on Mariota?
 
DX-TEX said:
Love how everyone says "just get a franchise QB! trade up in the draft!" Yeah that always works so well.
Click to expand...

So if it doesn't ALWAYS work out you should NEVER do it?

......when you don't have the franchise guy at QB you do what the seahawks did and you build up the rest of your roster. Which the Texans are doing
Click to expand...

OK, let's do what the Seahawks did - where's our $26 mil Matt Flynn? What the Seahawks ended up with is not what they intended.

thunderkyss said:
What would you think about trading our first, second, & Mallett? Do you think that might entice one of those that might take a QB, but aren't sold on Mariota?
Click to expand...

Well TN is the first possibility and I don't see them going for that deal. They have a young big, big armed QB. Jets maybe, clearly there is the GM connection. Who the hell knows what the Bears want. Mariota doesn't seem like a Fox guy to me. But if Mallett needed to be part of a deal, sure trade him. If you're making any deal like that he has a low shot of hitting the field except for injury and Hoyer's contract is prohibitive to deal although I'd rather trade him.
 
Marshall said:
But then again, I am not one of the typical fans who believe that the team begins and ends with the QB.
Click to expand...

The reason you, and I'm sure many others feel that way is because we've never had a great QB here with the Texans. If we ever get a top 5 QB here, I have a feeling you would change your mind.

Gut feeling for me, I don't think the Texans will jump up for Mariota. I don't believe a thing I hear from coaches this time of year. O'Brien has been talking about how impressed he is in Mariota but that doesn't mean much to me this time of year. I like Mariota myself but not enough to give up multiple picks, one of which would be a second rounder.
 
infantrycak said:
So if it doesn't ALWAYS work out you should NEVER do it?



OK, let's do what the Seahawks did - where's our $26 mil Matt Flynn? What the Seahawks ended up with is not what they intended.
Click to expand...

Seahawks were building before the Flynn signing and it can easily be said Mallett/Hoyer are our Flynn.

You don't mortgage your teams future for anyone other than a sure fire, cant miss player like Luck.
 
banned1976 said:
The reason you, and I'm sure many others feel that way is because we've never had a great QB here with the Texans. If we ever get a top 5 QB here, I have a feeling you would change your mind.
Click to expand...

No, he's very consistent in not valuing QBs and he's a former Cowboys fan so he's seen good QBs.

DX-TEX said:
Seahawks were building before the Flynn signing
Click to expand...

That's a meaningless assertion. Every team is "building" every year.

You don't mortgage your teams future for anyone other than a sure fire, cant miss player like Luck.
Click to expand...

Nice hyperbole - a 1st and 2nd isn't mortgaging the future.
 
markn said:
I think a trade is possible, but if Mariota this year giving up God knows what to get up to 8 or 9, then why not Bridgewater last year who they could have had for a tiny trade up? I can't make sense of the Texans QB strategy.
Click to expand...

Does it make more sense if you consider the Texans blew it last year in the first round - twice?
 
DX-TEX said:
Seahawks were building before the Flynn signing and it can easily be said Mallett/Hoyer are our Flynn.

You don't mortgage your teams future for anyone other than a sure fire, cant miss player like Luck.
Click to expand...

It's not much of mortgage considering the rookie salary cap; even less so when you consider the alternate can't miss pick like Clowney.
 
infantrycak said:
That's a meaningless assertion. Every team is building every year.



Nice hyperbole - a 1st and 2nd isn't mortgaging the future.
Click to expand...

And you are not moving up with just that. Washington has set the bar and that is the expectation going forward. Too much emphasis on building, the right way, through the draft to spend picks on anything not 100%.

Runner said:
It's not much of mortgage considering the rookie salary cap; even less so when you consider the alternate can't miss pick like Clowney.

Does it make more sense if you consider the Texans blew it last year in the first round - twice?
Click to expand...

Texans had two first round picks last year? Well **** me.

As for you Clowney "hot take" if ANY of the other31 other teams last year had the #1 overall pick they ALL would have taken Clowney. That is not a stretch to say either.
 
infantrycak said:
Unless Bortles, Carr, Bridgewater or Garoppolo turn out to be a talented QB.
Click to expand...

Even then our terrible season aligned itself perfectly to get any of them. We can take Bortles off the list, but we passed on Car Twice, Garapolo twice, & Bridgewater was definitely in our grasp.
 
DX-TEX said:
And you are not moving up with just that. Washington has set the bar and that is the expectation going forward.
Click to expand...

Washington didn't set any bar. They paid real close to the draft chart to get to #2...the same draft chart that says 16+51=8. 6 to 2 is a much bigger jump than 16 to 8.

thunderkyss said:
Even then our terrible season aligned itself perfectly to get any of them. We can take Bortles off the list, but we passed on Car Twice, Garapolo twice, & Bridgewater was definitely in our grasp.
Click to expand...

Not sure what you are differing with or why you're taking Bortles off. We could have easily had any of them.
 
I would have tried to do the 1st and 3rd round picks for Sam Bradford. If the Texans are really in a win now mode they have got to take some chances.
 
infantrycak said:
Unless Bortles, Carr, Bridgewater or Garoppolo turn out to be a talented QB.
Click to expand...

Garoppolo has a shot, just way way way WAAAYYY down the line
I actually did want Bridgewater.
Carr has a decent enough chance ... despite being on the raiders.
Bortles .... is BLEEEEEEEEEPed
 
This stupid **** again? With the same dumbass usual posts. Man, we need the draft to come around quick.
 
DX-TEX said:
Texans had two first round picks last year? Well **** me.
Click to expand...

Well, there is more than one pick in the first round. The Texans could have chosen to move back into the first round to pick Bridgewater. Since the first round was still going on, that would have been another first round pick!

Apparently this is a tough concept for some, but hopefully this short explanation helps one wrap his mind around it.
 
Dean1818 said:
I am just curious, why wouldn't the Texans trade into an earlier spot and take Mariota ?
Click to expand...

Week, Dean, if it is prudently plausible I'm sure they'll consider it.

Are the Colts going to get some more OL help for Andrew in the first, or do you think they'll go defense?
 
Runner said:
Well, there is more than one pick in the first round. The Texans could have chosen to move back into the first round to pick Bridgewater. Since the first round was still going on, that would have been another first round pick!

Apparently this is a tough concept for some, but hopefully this short explanation helps one wrap his mind around it.
Click to expand...

Texans could have offered their next 4 #1 draft picks in 2011 to draft Luck

Texans could just offer 3 first rounders for Brady

Texans can offer JJ Watt to the Bucs for the first pick this year

You're right this is fun. And pointless.
 
banned1976 said:
The reason you, and I'm sure many others feel that way is because we've never had a great QB here with the Texans. If we ever get a top 5 QB here, I have a feeling you would change your mind.

Gut feeling for me, I don't think the Texans will jump up for Mariota. I don't believe a thing I hear from coaches this time of year. O'Brien has been talking about how impressed he is in Mariota but that doesn't mean much to me this time of year. I like Mariota myself but not enough to give up multiple picks, one of which would be a second rounder.
Click to expand...

I grew up on Dandy Don Meredith before the Monday gig. I've seen the workings of everyones second favorite QB not to make the Superbowl in Warren Moon. It's not from experience or lack of it. It is a belief inspired by those who coached team building from the line outward, rather than skill positions inward.

I expect few young folk to understand concept developed at a time when red flags were still red and the goal post was still on the goal line.
 
DX-TEX said:
Texans could have offered their next 4 #1 draft picks in 2011 to draft Luck

Texans could just offer 3 first rounders for Brady

Texans can offer JJ Watt to the Bucs for the first pick this year

You're right this is fun. And pointless.
Click to expand...

Again with playing in left field. Texans only had to move 1 spot. And we know the team was willing to trade because they traded.
 
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