Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

Let's talk trade!

infantrycak said:
No you just picked a really ignorant example. Should have stuck with 2000 Ravens. There's a team where the O was carried by the D.

1985 Bears O - 1st pts, 7th yds, 5th yards per play, 6th 1st downs, 1st rushing att. (610), 5th rushing ypc., 5th yds per pass att., 9th QB rating.



Are you having a hard time remembering your position? Here, a reminder:



The Colts were dominant on one side of the ball. And by your previous statements Dungy wasn't a good coach because they only got one SB win out of it.

Thanks for bolstering my point that teams should be more balanced than that.
Click to expand...
Actually the bears are a great example. And I think you know that or you wouldn't have cherry picked stats. Great defense, really good running game and average QB.

This whole ideal that we have a better chance at beating the colts by adding weapons around an average QB is silly. You want to beat the colts. You build a dominant defense that can pressure him and you pound the ball down their throats with a good running game to keep Luck off the field and our defense fresh. It's not rocket science.
 
mussop said:
Actually the bears are a great example. And I think you know that or you wouldn't have cherry picked stats. Great defense, really good running game and average QB.
Click to expand...

I didn't cherry pick anything. That O was not some wilting flower just trying not to f'k up enough so that the D could win the game for them. They ground out long drives keeping the D off the field. They had a very good, much above average O. It remains a horrible example for not having a balanced team.

Edit - and arguing about the Bears missesi the point even if it was a good example...you're falling into the classic exception proves the rule.

This whole ideal that we have a better chance at beating the colts by adding weapons around an average QB is silly. You want to beat the colts. You build a dominant defense that can pressure him and you pound the ball down their throats with a good running game to keep Luck off the field and our defense fresh. It's not rocket science.
Click to expand...

Well you've said it so it must be true.

Come into the modern age. Even with a great D and a great running game you're going to have to come from behind, pass the ball, score quickly and score period. Just ask the Seahawks. You don't do that by giving an "average QB" a bunch of lackluster tools.


And you're right, it's not rocket science.
 
infantrycak said:
I didn't cherry pick anything. That O was not some wilting flower just trying not to f'k up enough so that the D could win the game for them. They ground out long drives keeping the D off the field. They had a very good, much above average O. It remains a horrible example for not having a balanced team.



Well you've said it so it must be true.

Come into the modern age. Even with a great D and a great running game you're going to have to come from behind, pass the ball, score quickly and score period. Just ask the Seahawks. You don't do that by giving an "average QB" a bunch of lackluster tools.


And you're right, it's not rocket science.
Click to expand...

Game has changed a lot since the '85 Bears, who had a GREAT RB and a very good OL along with a great defense. They didn't have a ton of competition that year to stop them either
 
JB said:
Game has changed a lot since the '85 Bears, who had a GREAT RB and a very good OL along with a great defense. They didn't have a ton of competition that year to stop them either
Click to expand...

Agreed

See the thing is if you build a defense that's not far away from being elite, add a speed WR in the 2-4th rd and a 3rd down back this yr the Texans may make the playoffs.

Chances are they aren't going to make the playoffs anyway since Mallett/Hoyer are basically newbies. Finish the defense if BPA is there add to the offense this yr and make a commitment to the offense in 2016 if you don't like what you see this yr.

These arguments are basically breaking down to a do you believe Mallett is the future or not. I respect Cak's position, but after the BS that happened to Fitz/Savage last yr I really don't care about the Texans record next yr,I just want them to build a defense to take Luck out, then complete the offense the next yr after they (Smith) has figured out if Mallett is the future.
 
steelbtexan said:
These arguments are basically breaking down to a do you believe Mallett is the future or not. I respect Cak's position, but after the BS that happened to Fitz/Savage last yr I really don't care about the Texans record next yr,I just want them to build a defense to take Luck out, then complete the offense the next yr after they (Smith) has figured out if Mallett is the future.
Click to expand...


But isn't this what we've been doing since 2002? Building a defense to beat the Colts QB? & frankly, we're not getting anywhere with that.

They've got Luck & they've got Hilton & they consistently outscore us.

The league continues to add rules to help them score. The officiating continues to evolve to help them score points. Why do we continue to go against the grain & hope to win with 23 points?
 
Lucky said:
These are the players I would move up in the draft for. Given the current makeup of the team, White or Cooper would be my targets. The Texans need to put TDs on the scoreboard, and these are the best playmakers in the draft (in my estimation).
Click to expand...

This. I look over the team as a whole and I like at the WR corps and it scares me... Not in a good way. Hopkins evolved into a solid #1 last year but outside that? A prayer Cecil Shorts stays healthy and a prayer they get production from someone else. I'd absolutely move up for White or even Cooper. If it wasn't a big hop up a few spots Parker.
 
mussop said:
Actually the bears are a great example. And I think you know that or you wouldn't have cherry picked stats. Great defense, really good running game and average QB.
Click to expand...
Since we're talking about the draft, let's exam how the Bears and Ravens were built. The '85 Bears had 9 1st picks of their own on the roster. 5 on offense and 4 on defense. They spent a 1st round pick at WR for their average QB. And a pair of bookend OTs to protect him.

The 2000 Ravens had 7 1st picks of their own on the roster. 4 on defense, 3 on offense (including WR). While their defense was the dominant unit on that team, there's nothing to suggest that the Ravens planned it that way. It just came together.

There is an example of a team very close to our hearts that seemed to plan for a dominat defense through the draft. They spent 7 1st round picks on defense over a 7 year span. At the end of those 7 years, that defense ranked 30th in yards, 29th in points. That was a plan that didn't come together.

If there is a moral to the story, it's this: Pick the players that you think can impact the team the most. If you're right, there's a good chance you will have success. The 2014 Texans defense finished in the top 10 in the following stats:

Points allowed - 7th
Yards per pass - 7th
Yards per rush - 10th
Rushing TDs allowed - 2nd
Average points per drive - 3rd
Average points per drive - 6th
Defensive TDs - 1st (tied)
Turnovers - 1st

Dominant? Maybe not. A playoff caliber defense? Most certainly. If the offense had been average (rather than 24th in yards per drive, for instance), they would have made the playoffs. This team needs to score points and sustain drives.

The running attack won't improve until they can back the defense off the line of scrimmage. The players than can impact this team the most are a QB that can get the ball downfield, and a WR that can get there. The Texans have made their bed at the QB position. Now, it's time to get that WR.
 
Rex Ryan speaks to the subject:

“We prefer to ground and pound it, we’re going to run it 50 times if we can on you,” Ryan said on WGR 550-AM in Buffalo, via the Rochester Democrat & Chronicle.

“We’re not naive enough to think we’re going to be able to get away with that,” Ryan said of running all game. “We can spread you out and create some nightmares in coverage. If you want to stop our run by keeping all the big guys in there, then so be it, we’ll be able to hurt you in a lot of different ways outside.”
Click to expand...

Link

The Bills have talented young receivers in Sammy Watkins and Robert Woods, and the additions of Percy Harvin and Charles Clay in free agency should have a big impact.
Click to expand...
 
Wolf6151 said:
You realize that's Woody Paige's idea, not Kubiak's right. Interesting idea though, a late 1st, 2nd, and 4th for #16. Having 3 picks in that 2nd level of talent, late 1st and 2nd rounds, would be nice.
Click to expand...

I realize it's Paige's idea. I meant if Kubiak and Elway were to make a move like that
 
That's not much of a premium to trade down, but if the guys we really want high are gone like Shelton and the top three receivers, it might be worth considering.

But I can't help but think that if the guys we really want are all gone, a prospect we didn't think would be available there will be.
 
Playoffs said:
I've also seen a bunch of mocks where everyone I like for us at 16 are gonzo, too... so if that worst case scenario happens I might trade wayyy back and get more lottery tickets.
Click to expand...

I'm still leaning we're sellers @16 adding more lottery tickets. Gurley being taken off the board ahead of our pick diminishes that somewhat, but I still have the same feeling.
 
Playoffs said:
I'm still leaning we're sellers @16 adding more lottery tickets. Gurley being taken off the board ahead of our pick diminishes that somewhat, but I still have the same feeling.
Click to expand...

I hope Gurley or Gordon are still around. I know the Cowboys picked up McFadden to replace Murray but that's not a back of the future. Then there's the Ravens; I know Forsett had a good year but he's closing in on 30 and if Gurley or Gordon are there they might look to trade up.
 
Dallas reported out on Peterson.

That's the latest from NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport, who said as much on Sunday night's NFL Total Access.

The 30-year-old running back will play for the Vikings or no one, or at least that is the word coming from Minnesota, per Rapoport.

But he noted that if one team could tempt Rick Spielman, it would be the Cardinals. The Bucs and Jaguars may be on the periphery though are not viewed as serious contenders.
Click to expand...
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...as-cowboys-not-in-running-for-adrian-peterson
 
ObsiWan said:
I wonder if this not trading Peterson stance is for real or posturing to get teams to offer a Hershel Walker type package?
Click to expand...

I would have said that there would never be another Hershel Walker deal. But then Washington did their RGIII deal, so I guess some teams never learn.
 
Lucky said:
Since we're talking about the draft, let's exam how the Bears and Ravens were built. The '85 Bears had 9 1st picks of their own on the roster. 5 on offense and 4 on defense. They spent a 1st round pick at WR for their average QB. And a pair of bookend OTs to protect him.

The 2000 Ravens had 7 1st picks of their own on the roster. 4 on defense, 3 on offense (including WR). While their defense was the dominant unit on that team, there's nothing to suggest that the Ravens planned it that way. It just came together.

There is an example of a team very close to our hearts that seemed to plan for a dominat defense through the draft. They spent 7 1st round picks on defense over a 7 year span. At the end of those 7 years, that defense ranked 30th in yards, 29th in points. That was a plan that didn't come together.

If there is a moral to the story, it's this: Pick the players that you think can impact the team the most. If you're right, there's a good chance you will have success. The 2014 Texans defense finished in the top 10 in the following stats:

Points allowed - 7th
Yards per pass - 7th
Yards per rush - 10th
Rushing TDs allowed - 2nd
Average points per drive - 3rd
Average points per drive - 6th
Defensive TDs - 1st (tied)
Turnovers - 1st

Dominant? Maybe not. A playoff caliber defense? Most certainly. If the offense had been average (rather than 24th in yards per drive, for instance), they would have made the playoffs. This team needs to score points and sustain drives.

The running attack won't improve until they can back the defense off the line of scrimmage. The players than can impact this team the most are a QB that can get the ball downfield, and a WR that can get there. The Texans have made their bed at the QB position. Now, it's time to get that WR.
Click to expand...

Totally agree, but those type WR's can be drafted in the 3rd rd or later. Look at the Pats WR corps. The Colts? Guys I'm looking at in the 3-6th rd range.

Conley/McBride/Smelter/Coxson, are all deep threats that can loosen a defense. Then you've got slot guys like Lockett/Crowder/Shipley, point is you don't have to use a 1st/2nd rd pick to fill the WR need. I would've agreed with you before FA but Washinton training a young ultra talented guy like Conley/Smelter/Coxson is the way that I would go.

Looks like BOB agrees qith us, the WR's he's checked out Dorsett/D.Smith/Conley high end and Coxson and some small school guy all run in the 4.3's or Smith 4.42.
 
steelbtexan said:
Totally agree, but those type WR's can be drafted in the 3rd rd or later. Look at the Pats WR corps. The Colts? Guys I'm looking at in the 3-6th rd range.
Click to expand...

The Pats get away with the WRs they have because they have Brady and Gronk. Not sure what your point is with the Colts - they just replaced one 1st rounder with another.

We need more than a couple big plays a game. We need a go to guy that pulls coverage and sustains drives.
 
infantrycak said:
The Pats get away with the WRs they have because they have Brady and Gronk. Not sure what your point is with the Colts - they just replaced one 1st rounder with another.

We need more than a couple big plays a game. We need a go to guy that pulls coverage and sustains drives.
Click to expand...

Hilton/Moncrief 3rd rd picks.

Whalen late rd FA type guy.
 
Playoffs said:
I'm still leaning we're sellers @16 adding more lottery tickets. Gurley being taken off the board ahead of our pick diminishes that somewhat, but I still have the same feeling.
Click to expand...

Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock
"There should be 1 or 2 or 3 good players available that give us a chance to move back. It is a good spot. 16 is a good spot" -- Rick Smith
Click to expand...
 
Wonder if Rick is reaching out to former Texan Director of College Scouting Mike Maccagnan now Jet GM about trading up to #6 overall? Either Beasley or Dupree, throw in next years first plus Swearinger who odds are very good Mike must have fully endorsed taken 2nd rd. in Texan war room.:twocents:
 
beerlover said:
Wonder if Rick is reaching out to former Texan Director of College Scouting Mike Maccagnan now Jet GM about trading up to #6 overall? Either Beasley or Dupree, throw in next years first plus Swearinger who odds are very good Mike must have fully endorsed taken 2nd rd. in Texan war room.:twocents:
Click to expand...
hmm, if that deal were to be made it would (for me) have to be for one of the three WRs or Leonard Williams.
 
OK, badboy:

According to Ed Werder of ESPN, the Bucs are talking to multiple teams to move back into the first round.

The Bucs have the second pick of the second round (34th overall), and would have to give that and something else to make a move up.

But adding Jameis Winston and another premier player tonight would be a major boost for the team on the field and in a community that hasn’t had much to celebrate. The Bucs were winless at home last year and 2-14, so any spark would help ticket sales as much as the roster.

The Buccaneers need a pass-rusher, and if Randy Gregory or Shane Ray slide, that might tempt them to make a big move.
Click to expand...

Link

So 16 (1000 pts) for?

2-34 (560 pts) + 3-65 (265 pts) + 2nd round 2016 (180 pts)

2-34 (560 pts) + 3-65 (265 pts) + 3rd round 2016 (72 pts)

2-34 (560 pts) + 3-65 (265 pts) + 4-109 (76 pts)

2-34 (560 pts) + 3-65 (265 pts)

3-65 (265 pts) + 4-109 (76 pts) + 1st round 2016 (400 pts)
 
infantrycak said:
OK, badboy:



Link

So 16 (1000 pts) for?

2-34 (560 pts) + 3-65 (265 pts) + 2nd round 2016 (180 pts)

2-34 (560 pts) + 3-65 (265 pts) + 3rd round 2016 (72 pts)

2-34 (560 pts) + 3-65 (265 pts) + 4-109 (76 pts)

2-34 (560 pts) + 3-65 (265 pts)

3-65 (265 pts) + 4-109 (76 pts) + 1st round 2016 (400 pts)
Click to expand...

Move totally out of the first round?
:firehair::firehair::firehair:

:)
 
infantrycak said:
...So 16 (1000 pts) for?

2-34 (560 pts) + 3-65 (265 pts) + 2nd round 2016 (180 pts)
Click to expand...

I like that a lot if the board doesn't fall the way we want it to.

Sets us up for a good haul next year and also puts us in a spot to grab one of the fringe 1st rounders who don't "deserve" the #16 pick.

Say Agholor or Kendricks was still there at #34.
 
infantrycak said:
OK, badboy:



Link

So 16 (1000 pts) for?

2-34 (560 pts) + 3-65 (265 pts) + 2nd round 2016 (180 pts)

2-34 (560 pts) + 3-65 (265 pts) + 3rd round 2016 (72 pts)

2-34 (560 pts) + 3-65 (265 pts) + 4-109 (76 pts)

2-34 (560 pts) + 3-65 (265 pts)

3-65 (265 pts) + 4-109 (76 pts) + 1st round 2016 (400 pts)
Click to expand...

I'll take 34 + 109 +2016 1st for $500 Alex
 
bah007 said:
I like that a lot if the board doesn't fall the way we want it to.

Sets us up for a good haul next year and also puts us in a spot to grab one of the fringe 1st rounders who don't "deserve" the #16 pick.

Say Agholor or Kendricks was still there at #34.
Click to expand...

and the odds of that are....?
 
bah007 said:
At best the same as when we moved down for Duane. We could get lucky.
Click to expand...

I'm not knocking it. Just trying to get a handle on the value of the gamble. At worst we can still find a solid WR, like Agholor, in the 2nd. But if it's choice in getting Agholor and whoever with the 51st pick but missing out on Eric Kendrick because he went at 20-something... I'd rather have Kendrick.
 
infantrycak said:
OK, badboy:



Link

So 16 (1000 pts) for?

2-34 (560 pts) + 3-65 (265 pts) + 2nd round 2016 (180 pts)

2-34 (560 pts) + 3-65 (265 pts) + 3rd round 2016 (72 pts)

2-34 (560 pts) + 3-65 (265 pts) + 4-109 (76 pts)

2-34 (560 pts) + 3-65 (265 pts)

3-65 (265 pts) + 4-109 (76 pts) + 1st round 2016 (400 pts)
Click to expand...


I'd take their second, & next year's first.
 
infantrycak said:
OK, badboy:



Link

So 16 (1000 pts) for?

2-34 (560 pts) + 3-65 (265 pts) + 2nd round 2016 (180 pts)

2-34 (560 pts) + 3-65 (265 pts) + 3rd round 2016 (72 pts)

2-34 (560 pts) + 3-65 (265 pts) + 4-109 (76 pts)

2-34 (560 pts) + 3-65 (265 pts)

3-65 (265 pts) + 4-109 (76 pts) + 1st round 2016 (400 pts)
Click to expand...
None of the above
 
badboy said:
not a fan of trading for next year's draft pick; although hope to change that in 2016. I want a first this year and then look at other additional picks.
Click to expand...

There were five options with three involving next year.

You were also free to suggest your own.
 
badboy said:
not a fan of trading for next year's draft pick; although hope to change that in 2016. I want a first this year and then look at other additional picks.
Click to expand...

The trading partner in this scenario was Tampa. Their first is better than ours. So I guess you're saying you wouldn't trade for Tampa's 2nd since their first is long gone...?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top