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Let's talk trade!
- Thread starter badboy
- Start date
ok, I see 3 as potential #1 outside WR's, maybe 4 if you throw Cooper in there but I think he's better suited at slot.
White, Parker and Strong. Tho Perriman is intriguing and could make it up there
badboy
Hall of Fame
Here is an article (long and in depth) from Feb '15 comparing Cooper, White and Parker (no Strong unfortunately. Hope it is enjoyed.
http://www.vavel.com/en-us/nfl/4576...-cooper-vs-devante-parker-vs-kevin-white.html
For those not wanting to read here is a synopsis:
http://www.vavel.com/en-us/nfl/4576...-cooper-vs-devante-parker-vs-kevin-white.html
For those not wanting to read here is a synopsis:
aussie_texan
Veteran
Agreed, but that's a pretty big if
2nd round picks are just too valuable. I don't see a WR worth our first and second round picks ? But it' a deep Draft for WRs, maybe we don't get one of the most highly rated ones, but there's still also value later say with our 2n rounder.
Su'a-Filo. Swearinger. Brooks Reed. Brandon Harris. Ben Tate. The Texans last 5 2nd round picks. I would trade any of those guys (or players of that caliber) along with the 1st round pick if I thought if I thought I was getting a true #1 WR in this draft. It is a deep WR class, I agree. But how many elite WRs are there? And will there be one when the Texans are on the clock? That's the question I don't have the answers to.
I thought DeMeco was an outstanding pick ? And I think Reed was descent, atleast ATL thinks he is based on that contract they just gave him. And yea I'm also real disappointed with the Xman so far, but it's too early to finish evaluating him, don't you think Lucky ?
Now that Billy is on the scene I can only hope his influence/input in the 2015 Draft will be make enough of a difference to boost your confidence.
My point isn't to bash anyone. I could go to any other random team and make the same point. You can find good players in the 2nd round. Sometimes great. But usually, they shouldn't keep you from making a move that can garner a premier talent. And, I'm not even sure that a 2nd would be enough to make that move up the board. Just saying "if" is all.
I want to agree with you... if we could get an elite wr, and depth was there in another position we could get a very good player in the 3rd... an edge rusher or ilb or NT
How far up would our !st and 2nd enable us to move up? To the 8th or 9th pick maybe?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
By the chart, our 1st and 2nd could get us to 1.8
would be worth it if the top guy or someone you had rated in top five fell? Would you have a wr rated that way? Is there anyone that has the upside of Sammy Watkins in this draft?
badboy
Hall of Fame
IMO only Cooper todaycomes close to Watkins one year ago today. If we want to talk about who can be a Watkins type player for Texans first season, I think Parker, Cooper, White and maybe Strong in this order can maybe fill the bill. Watkins avg 15 and after his first four games, team went from EJ Manuel to Orton. It is possible that could happen with Houston. Can any of these guys maintain Watkins efforts?
I would not trade up for any player rated top 15. The 16th player is good enough to not give up our second. I would only trade down.
You're making me sad.
If one of the top 3 fall to 10 I would seriously consider trading up. They're that talented.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Don't think I'd do it for Cooper but for White, yeah. Parker, still deciding.
1. Parker = Jordy Nelson
2. White = AJ
3. Cooper = Cobb
Would you consider trading a 2nd rd pick for those guys if my evals are correct?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You mean use our 2nd to trade up so effectively our 1st and 2nd, correct?
White - definitely yes
Parker - less enthusiasts but probably
Cooper - no
I would trade up for:
Mariota
Leonard Williams
Cooper
White
Beasley
Winston (if everything checks out)
They're the best players in this draft. They're difference makers.
A very good list,
I would like to add 2 guys I really like, hopefully will be there at 16.
Dupree
Parker
badboy
Hall of Fame
I had to think hard on Williams but where he is expected to go will cost lot more than just a second so..no.
^^^This^^^
I think White would cost us more than just our 1st and 2nd though. SteelB is right though White = AJ, so what's that worth to you?
Forget about getting either QB with just our 1 & 2 or Wlliams.
If I was giving up my 1 and 2 to move up I'd take Danny Shelton before any WR. But we stand a good chance of the next best thing in a stud NT/DT being in Malcolm Brown being on our Board at 16, and then you've still got your 2nd ound pick intack in your Draft assets. We've got lots of needs beside WR: inside & outside LBs, RB, interior DLineman, and you know Billy will want to draft another QB. Billy might also want another TE and maybe more than one WR in this Draft ?
I have. Any of the 6 are a long shot, really.
I'm not interested in trading up for Shelton, or even taking him @16. I think he's a 2 down player that won't help in the pass rush. I don't think you take those guys that high. If there were a DT with pass rush potential, that would be different.
NFL Media's Mike Mayock was already touting Shelton as a possible top-10 pick in the 2015 NFL Draft and it doesn't appear his opinion has changed after getting an up-close loo"When you put the tape on, you can't help but think of Haloti Ngata," Mayock said. "For a guy that's 343 pounds, his strength is outstanding. He's got a little hump move like Reggie White and Howie Long had, too. He has way more lateral quickness than people think he has and he played the majority of snaps at the University of Washington. Most big guys can't do that. He's had a special week."
The Ngata comparisons aren't new for Shelton, who has drawn rave reviews for his strength and ability to clog running lanes in college. However, his ability to stay on the field instead of going to the sideline to rest when facing an up-tempo offense could separate Shelton from other nose tackles.Such stamina is one reason why Mayock believes Patriots star Vince Wilfork is perhaps an even more apt NFL comparison for Shelton.
k at the defensive tackle over the past few days.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...nny-shelton-in-same-category-as-vince-wilfork
****
Mayock says he's an every down DT,and is comparable to Vince Wolfork.
I wouldn't move up and use the 1 & 2 round picks on him just as I wouldn't do that either for one of the WRs. But I'd Sjheltonat 16 before I'd take one of the WRs.
I think Billy is gonna get us a WR with excellent long-speed which is what we need and what Andre couldn't give us for a long-time, not like he could when he was 22 coning out of the U.
This is so over played here. Putting a guy that can consistently draw double teams WILL help the pass rush. Shelton, Brown and Phillips all have the type of talent and potential to make a difference on third down. They aren't your typical fat guys in the middle who are just basically brick walls.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
So is the building the lines thing. There are other positions.
Like?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Which statement was the question about?
Exactly. And many analysts say having a really active DT who can apply pressure to the QB from the inside is more instrumental in frustrating the opponents passing game than an effective edge-rusher.
Shelton is likely a top-10 pick but we may very well have an opportunity at #16 to draft UTs Malcom Brown who's the same kind of down defensive lineman though not quite as talented as Shelton.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Backtracking on this a bit...
I'm hearing more and more the number of "first round grades" teams have on this 2015 draft class is as low as 12 up to 18. Seahawks GM Jon Schneider has 16:
So it sounds to me like trading back likely moves us too far back for what I'd like us to get since we're "on the cusp." I've also seen a bunch of mocks where everyone I like for us at 16 are gonzo, too... so if that worst case scenario happens I might trade wayyy back and get more lottery tickets.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Texans had the #1 overall pick last year & it didn't seem to matter. Someone always makes mistakes lets just hope that someone, is not the Texans this year.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Texans had the #1 overall pick last year & it didn't seem to matter. Someone always makes mistakes lets just hope that someone, is not the Texans this year.
I still don't think it was a mistake last year. But we'll see.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Depends on an unknown - what if anything was offered.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I was a proponent of trading down AT THE RIGHT PRICE. I assume there was no offer good enough since it didn't happen.
But yeah, I know about the negative possibility.
That's pretty much exactly how it played out in 2013, when the Rams traded #16 + # 46 + #78 + #222 for the Bills #8 + #71. The 3rd for the 3rd & 7th pretty much cancel each other, leaving the Rams trading a mid 1st and mid 2nd for #8.
The Cowboys moved up from #14 to #6 in 2012 for a mid 2nd.
The Jags moved up from #16 to #10 in 2011 for a mid 2nd.
So, the precedent is there. It will cost a 2nd round pick to move into the bottom half of the top 10. What does that mean? Here are the players picked at #51 (where the Texans draft in the 2nd Round) over the past 10 drafts:
2014 - Ego Ferguson - DT - Bears
2013 - David Amerson - CB - Skins
2012 - Jerel Worthy - DT - Packers
2011 - Da'Quan Bowers - DE - Bucs
2010 - Toby Gerhart - RB - Vikings
2009 - Andy Levitre - G - Bills
2008 - Malcolm Kelly - WR - Bears
2007 - Steve Smith - WR - Giants
2006 - Ryan Cook - C - Vikings
2005 - Nick Collins - S - Packers
There are some decent/solid players in that group. There are some fringy guys. And a bust or 2. Nothing that would keep you from using that pick to move up for a player that you feel is special. Of course, there has to be a seller. I just feel this is a draft the Texans should make a bold move for a special player that can put points on the scoreboard.
I get this and don't disagree.
But one side of the ball needs to be dominant and if the Texans added a pass rusher even if they had to trade up to get a pass rusher and draft a Conley.Rashad Greene in the 3rd.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
First time I've heard that rule.
Good info. Thanks.
Hypothetical situation, Kevin White and Danny Shelton are available at #8, do you trade our #16 and #51 to move up and take one of them? If so which one and why? Honestly, I'd move up for one of them, but it would be a very difficult decision as to which one to pick. White reminds me of AJ, but Shelton could be a definite game changer. That would be a very tough decision.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Moving up to get White was the scenario that started that discussion.
I didn't read the previous 87 posts so forgive me if this is old news, but would YOU make that trade up?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Sorry, I should have said. Yes I would move up for White.
Not a rule but there is a 1st time for everything, even the Texans being successful.
But I wouldn't expect somebody who knows everything to be able to learn anything new.
Example 85 Bears/Trent Dilfer/Ray lewis Ravens/2010's 49ers/Seahawks etc.... Great on one side of the ball. Avg to above avg on the otherside of the ball.
Opposite Manning's Colts.
Carry on
beerlover
Hall of Fame
That statement, "we'll see" is unfortunate in itself & says it all. You should know right away with the number one overall pick if you got it right or wrong.
I also didn't view OLB as the Texans biggest need.
When you grade a player as best overall prospect in the draft how did Texan medical staff overlook his medical & scouts explanation of deterioration in production? Greatness is there, that is undeniable but for now its merely based off his potential coming off a serious injury. With a rich pass rushing class this year & Khalil Mack/Anthony Barr they had other options, but wore blinders (tunnel vision) to reality of situation, steadfast & immovable in compensation. I'd being more willing to wager on Arik Armstead, Oregon, DE (5-tech) who seems to get hurt a lot himself but @ 16 he's worth the risk, cause when healthy he can blow it up, but that's just my opinion
Maybe they could exchnage notes & figure out a way to get on the field together opposite JJ Watt book-casing Vince Wilfork. 
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
IOTW by your own account, we need to be be one of the very rare exceptions to the rule that you need a balanced team.
Carry on.
PS - seriously 1985 Bears? 2nd O, 1st D on points. Lousy leadoff example.
Because the Bears defense was setting up the offense on a short field when they weren't scoring TD's themselves. Just another case of using stats to say what you want them to say. Tell me more about the Colts great defense when Manning was there? They were avg at best. I'm sure you will dig up some stat to prove their awesomeness
Stats say Kubiak was a great offensive mind while he was here. He was if you love the empty yds stats.
Why was the Rivers thread closed? There was some pretty good debate going on there.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
No you just picked a really ignorant example. Should have stuck with 2000 Ravens. There's a team where the O was carried by the D.
1985 Bears O - 1st pts, 7th yds, 5th yards per play, 6th 1st downs, 1st rushing att. (610), 5th rushing ypc., 5th yds per pass att., 9th QB rating.
Are you having a hard time remembering your position? Here, a reminder:
steelbtexan said:
The Colts were dominant on one side of the ball. And by your previous statements Dungy wasn't a good coach because they only got one SB win out of it.
Thanks for bolstering my point that teams should be more balanced than that.
These are the players I would move up in the draft for. Given the current makeup of the team, White or Cooper would be my targets. The Texans need to put TDs on the scoreboard, and these are the best playmakers in the draft (in my estimation).
How many spots are you thinking of moving up? I know #8 was mentioned but is that the limit? I'm just curious. I think we can get a solid contributor at 16. But then, I'd be happy with Malcom Brown and every mock I've checked has him still there when we pick. I'm in the "we can get a solid, contributing WR with the 51st pick" camp.
I'm thinking as far as that 2nd round pick will take me. I'm looking for a #1 WR to replace AJ. This is a good WR class, and there may very well be a "solid, contributing WR" at #51. But, there probably won't be a #1 WR.
Here's a trade question: Since Rick Smith has been GM have the Texans ever been involved in a trade where they moved into the first round or moved further up in the first round and given additional picks ? The only such trade I can remember in Texans history was when Casserly was still GM they moved forward into the first round and threw in additional picks as added value to draft Jason Babin.