Nick Foles

[The Pencil Neck]

So you're saying that, in reality, O'Brien outright lied to Hoyer about it really being a straight up, best man win, QB competition?

I was thinking "insurance policy" too but from the "what if Mallett ain't all that" angle. Then again, I guess that's just another way of saying "lack of faith in Mallett".

I looked at it a different way.

OB totally means it that there's a straight-up QB competition. I expect him to be completely fair about it. That doesn't mean I don't think Mallett is going to win it and I don't think it means OB thinks has much of a chance.

From a coaching perspective, OB is building trust here. The other guys will come in, see the competition, see OB being fair, and that builds respect when Mallett wins the job and keeps there from being a divided locker room.

So... why Hoyer? Because he's an upgrade from Fitzpatrick for the backup.

But why Mallett less money? Because Mallett didn't negotiate hard enough and if a guy comes in saying he'd be happy with a "prove it" contract, that's a win-win provided he does "prove it."

 

[JB]

I looked at it a different way.

OB totally means it that there's a straight-up QB competition. I expect him to be completely fair about it. That doesn't mean I don't think Mallett is going to win it and I don't think it means OB thinks has much of a chance.

From a coaching perspective, OB is building trust here. The other guys will come in, see the competition, see OB being fair, and that builds respect when Mallett wins the job and keeps there from being a divided locker room.

So... why Hoyer? Because he's an upgrade from Fitzpatrick for the backup.

But why Mallett less money? Because Mallett didn't negotiate hard enough and if a guy comes in saying he'd be happy with a "prove it" contract, that's a win-win provided he does "prove it."

My view also. Whichever one wins, the other is a backup until 2016 when hopefully Savage has progressed to the point he can be a capable backup.

Both guys are basically on one year prove it deals

 

[ObsiWan]

I looked at it a different way.

OB totally means it that there's a straight-up QB competition. I expect him to be completely fair about it. That doesn't mean I don't think Mallett is going to win it and I don't think it means OB thinks ?? has much of a chance.

From a coaching perspective, OB is building trust here. The other guys will come in, see the competition, see OB being fair, and that builds respect when Mallett wins the job and keeps there from being a divided locker room.

I don't get how trading the guys that helped you get to a winning season and bringing in a known slug to "compete" for the starting job is truly "fair". Out of our 9 wins Mallett had a hand in one, compared to Fitz's six and Keenum's two. A fair competition would have been to bring back the guys who actually contributed as opposed to one of his old flames from New England.

So... why Hoyer? Because he's an upgrade from Fitzpatrick for the backup.

that remains to be seen.

But why Mallett less money? Because Mallett didn't negotiate hard enough and if a guy comes in saying he'd be happy with a "prove it" contract, that's a win-win provided he does "prove it."

No disagreement here at all.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

I don't get how trading the guys that helped you get to a winning season and bringing in a known slug to "compete" for the starting job is truly "fair". Out of our 9 wins Mallett had a hand in one, compared to Fitz's six and Keenum's two. A fair competition would have been to bring back the guys who actually contributed as opposed to one of his old flames from New England.

"Fairness" isn't about keeping the old guys around. It's not about last year or last year's players; it's about this year and this year's players. "Fairness" is about letting people compete and putting the best players on the field.

 

[ObsiWan]

"Fairness" isn't about keeping the old guys around. It's not about last year or last year's players; it's about this year and this year's players. "Fairness" is about letting people compete and putting the best players on the field.

I guess I see it as O'Brien getting the band back together. I keep waiting for him to make a play for Matt Cassel so we can have the complete set.

Anyway, whether this competition translates into actual upgrade at our QB position remains to be seen. I also have a feeling that whoever loses this spring/summer won't stick around long here very long because they'll want a chance to start somewhere.

 

[Texecutioner]

I guess I see it as O'Brien getting the band back together. I keep waiting for him to make a play for Matt Cassel so we can have the complete set.

Rex beat him to it. .


And there is always next year for us to offer Watt for Garrapallo. Lol!

, whether this competition translates into actual upgrade at our QB position remains to be seen. I also have a feeling that whoever loses this spring/summer won't stick around long here very long because they'll want a chance to start somewhere.

Regarding the pay for Mallet, well doesn't that indicate that OB must not have that much confidence in Mallet if he was going to allow Mallet to go field other offers and give him less than Hoyer? I mean, that is a big risk that could have gone the other way and we could have lost out. Clearly, the Texans actions indicate that they weren't to worried about that from the way I'm seeing this. "That" tells me that Mallet must not have made them feel that strongly that he''ll become and elite level type of passer.

 

[corytx8]

Am I the only person who thinks Foles is overrated with bad mechanics


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[beerlover]

two 2nd rd picks.
no other players.

and they got two pro bowl seasons, two division championship seasons, and 3 4000+ yd seasons out of him.
The year Kubiak went and got Schaub (2007) the top QBs in that draft were JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Kevin Kolb, Drew Stanton, John Beck, Trent Edwards, and Isaiah Stanback.

why did you ask?

For what should have been a stop gap not a franchise QB getting paid franchise money for franchise pieces. Did we learn nothing, that is my question. Now maybe we do more likely we don't, still have a franchise QB. Least where not giving up building blocks & huge chunks of cap space. :finger-gun

 

[Lucky]

Am I the only person who thinks Foles is overrated with bad mechanics

Mechanics are overrated.

Signed,
Philip Rivers

 

[Texecutioner]

Am I the only person who thinks Foles is overrated with bad mechanics


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Where were all of these bad mechanics stories two years ago? I don't remember that being any glaring issue at all when he had his 7 TD game or at the end of the year when those mechanics only threw 2 picks. Everyone is entitled to an opinion though I guess.

I'm not saying that Foles is some elite QB waiting to happen, but based on what we have seen and what we know, he has proven that he can play at a high level in this league. None of the other QB's on our roster have proven that. I think a lot of you guys forget at how hard it is to have an opportunity to get a great QB is.

 

[ObsiWan]

For what should have been a stop gap not a franchise QB getting paid franchise money for franchise pieces. Did we learn nothing, that is my question. Now maybe we do more likely we don't, still have a franchise QB. Least where not giving up building blocks & huge chunks of cap space. :finger-gun

A "stop gap"???
And who, exactly, would we have been waiting for?

 

[YeaLikeRightNow]

A "stop gap"???
And who, exactly, would we have been waiting for?

Manning?

 

[corytx8]

Where were all of these bad mechanics stories two years ago? I don't remember that being any glaring issue at all when he had his 7 TD game or at the end of the year when those mechanics only threw 2 picks. Everyone is entitled to an opinion though I guess.



I'm not saying that Foles is some elite QB waiting to happen, but based on what we have seen and what we know, he has proven that he can play at a high level in this league. None of the other QB's on our roster have proven that. I think a lot of you guys forget at how hard it is to have an opportunity to get a great QB is.

They were already there. But the main reason why I think the dude is overrated is because of Chip Kelly system. If he produces well in St. Louis I will be happy to eat crow, but I am not sold on him.


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[Texecutioner]

They were already there. But the main reason why I think the dude is overrated is because of Chip Kelly system. If he produces well in St. Louis I will be happy to eat crow, but I am not sold on him.


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I get so sick and tired of hearing QB's being called a system guy. That is by far the most overhyped idea that gets tossed around the NFL.

For starters, how is Foles even the kind of guy for Kelly's system?? Please explain that one. Kelly's reputation is of a guy who wants a mobile style QB like Marriotta. A lot of people were surprised he didn't go after Kaepernick.

And if Foles was just lucky to benefit from that system, then why didn't Vick play well in it? Foles came in and played 100 times better than Vick. Why wasn't Sanchez looking like a borderline elite passer in that system??

So far Foles is the only guy that has played well in that system. He didn't just play well though. He played awesome.

There is no proof that he is some system guy until he plays in several systems and fails. Just pawning some guy off as a system guy who was lucky to have success due to some HC's formations to me is code word for "I just don't like him."

 

[beerlover]

A "stop gap"???
And who, exactly, would we have been waiting for?

Pretty obvious Texans should have been more draft savvy addressing QB position from 2005 draft on. I hate to rehash who they missed on, I for one wanted Wilfork in 04 not Dunta Robinson or in this case Ben Roethlisberger. Point is Kelly knows how to prioritize QB position, work with what he has to get best results, & not afraid to move on to bigger, better even if its a risky move. We didn't see this from Texan/Kubiak era. He was willing to risk all rolling the dice & insisting he could coach him up & was franchise caliber.

I respect O'Brian's approach & fact he too understands this is the most important need to address. In this case Bill should still get his guy, could be his former Penn State QB, Christian Hackenberg or Michigan State Connor Cook, even if Mallet works out, he has a franchise type of guy developing, not a Matt Schaub.

 

[ObsiWan]

Pretty obvious Texans should have been more draft savvy addressing QB position from 2005 draft on. I hate to rehash who they missed on, I for one wanted Wilfork in 04 not Dunta Robinson or in this case Ben Roethlisberger. Point is Kelly knows how to prioritize QB position, work with what he has to get best results, & not afraid to move on to bigger, better even if its a risky move. We didn't see this from Texan/Kubiak era. He was willing to risk all rolling the dice & insisting he could coach him up & was franchise caliber.

I respect O'Brian's approach & fact he too understands this is the most important need to address. In this case Bill should still get his guy, could be his former Penn State QB, Christian Hackenberg or Michigan State Connor Cook, even if Mallet works out, he has a franchise type of guy developing, not a Matt Schaub.

My question was who should have we targeted at QB after we got Schaub in 2007 since Schaub was a "stop gap". You didn't address that question at all.

Now to my thinking the replacement/upgrade guy should have been someone in the 2008/09 drafts or free agency. By 2009, Schaub was putting up pro bowl numbers so changing then, when there were other holes to fill, didn't go to the top of the priority list. In fact, go back and find your 2009 mocks and see if there's a QB on it. If you indeed thought replacing Schaub was a priority, you should have QB prospects in rds 1 or 2. Did you?

Right now I have a feeling that Hoyer will beat out Mallett. Admittedly I have nothing but gut feel to base that on at the moment. And I also doubt we'll draft another QB in the near future unless they both absolutely suck.

 

[beerlover]

My question was who should have we targeted at QB after we got Schaub in 2007 since Schaub was a "stop gap". You didn't address that question at all.

Now to my thinking the replacement/upgrade guy should have been someone in the 2008/09 drafts or free agency. By 2009, Schaub was putting up pro bowl numbers so changing then, when there were other holes to fill, didn't go to the top of the priority list. In fact, go back and find your 2009 mocks and see if there's a QB on it. If you indeed thought replacing Schaub was a priority, you should have QB prospects in rds 1 or 2. Did you?

Right now I have a feeling that Hoyer will beat out Mallett. Admittedly I have nothing but gut feel to base that on at the moment. And I also doubt we'll draft another QB in the near future unless they both absolutely suck.

We disagree then because feel I did. The answer is you have to continually evolve & address position after every season when you asses your quality/needs on roster. Would be pretty easy to use hindsight now don't you think?

We start with Flacco. 2008 instead of trading down with Baltimore who traded up to get what has become their franchise QB.

Texans picked up Stephen McGee 2009 to develop as a free agent, I think, for whatever reason he didn't pan out but now they have Hoyer who was actually a lesser graded prospect coming out. Not much in this draft class to get excited about granted, maybe a move in free agency?

2010 Bradford went #1. Now Kelly got him for a late 2nd. That is an option but of course need a QB to trade them they want, lol.

Now Texans have 2011 draft prospect from Arkansas Ryan Mallet, who was drafted 3rd rd. by Patriots & traded what turns out to cost only a 7th rd. pick in return. Took TJ Yates in 5th think he turned out alright, but only another stop gap.

Texans could have Russel Wilson in 3rd round instead on DeVier Posey I suppose, tough choice right? But like I said hindsight. Pretty sure however, despite Schaubs production @ height of his professional career the warning signs clearly exposed so if not on Wilson they should be.

2013/2014 for sure! Never was a fan of Geno but could have taken shot on Mike Glennon in 2nd. Still not sure how good he is but at least a shot in grand scheme of things. Chip took Barkley who has shown nothing so far in 4th Ryan Nassib was talked a lot around here I remember. With first pick last year obviously Bortles was a get but passed for once in generational pass rusher.

Should also mention Nick Foles since this is his thread. I really liked him coming out & mocked him before to Texans, 4th rd. I believe. Clearly should help Rams but not like a healthy Sammy Bradford will for Eagles. Question is he a franchise QB? Chip doesn't think he is so another stop gap.

 

[ObsiWan]

We disagree then because feel I did. The answer is you have to continually evolve & address position after every season when you asses your quality/needs on roster. Would be pretty easy to use hindsight now don't you think?

We start with Flacco. 2008 instead of trading down with Baltimore who traded up to get what has become their franchise QB.

Texans picked up Stephen McGee 2009 to develop as a free agent, I think, for whatever reason he didn't pan out but now they have Hoyer who was actually a lesser graded prospect coming out. Not much in this draft class to get excited about granted, maybe a move in free agency?

2010 Bradford went #1. Now Kelly got him for a late 2nd. That is an option but of course need a QB to trade them they want, lol.

Now Texans have 2011 draft prospect from Arkansas Ryan Mallet, who was drafted 3rd rd. by Patriots & traded what turns out to cost only a 7th rd. pick in return. Took TJ Yates in 5th think he turned out alright, but only another stop gap.

Texans could have Russel Wilson in 3rd round instead on DeVier Posey I suppose, tough choice right? But like I said hindsight. Pretty sure however, despite Schaubs production @ height of his professional career the warning signs clearly exposed so if not on Wilson they should be.

2013/2014 for sure! Never was a fan of Geno but could have taken shot on Mike Glennon in 2nd. Still not sure how good he is but at least a shot in grand scheme of things. Chip took Barkley who has shown nothing so far in 4th Ryan Nassib was talked a lot around here I remember. With first pick last year obviously Bortles was a get but passed for once in generational pass rusher.

Should also mention Nick Foles since this is his thread. I really liked him coming out & mocked him before to Texans, 4th rd. I believe. Clearly should help Rams but not like a healthy Sammy Bradford will for Eagles. Question is he a franchise QB? Chip doesn't think he is so another stop gap.

I guess I disagree as to when you remove the "stop gap" designation from a QB. I'm thinking when Schaub began to run the offense at a 4000+ yd level, you move on to other needs.

I agree it would have been wise to get a quality backup for Schaub in the 2013 draft. And I'll also give you that you never stop looking for someone to push your starter. The question is, how high of a pick do you spend on your #2. With Yates here and Keenum here should we have spent more draft capital on that position?

But as you say, it's all hindsight now.

Moving on.

 

[thunderkyss]

Right now I have a feeling that Hoyer will beat out Mallett. Admittedly I have nothing but gut feel to base that on at the moment. And I also doubt we'll draft another QB in the near future unless they both absolutely suck.

If he really thinks Petty is a better prospect than Mariota & Winston, he better grab him at 16....

That's only if he believes Petty is the better prospect & he thinks Mariota & Winston are as good as the talking heads do. If he thinks the talking heads don't know what they are talking about & saying Petty is better is his way of saying so, then that's different.

 

[corytx8]

I get so sick and tired of hearing QB's being called a system guy. That is by far the most overhyped idea that gets tossed around the NFL.

For starters, how is Foles even the kind of guy for Kelly's system?? Please explain that one. Kelly's reputation is of a guy who wants a mobile style QB like Marriotta. A lot of people were surprised he didn't go after Kaepernick.

And if Foles was just lucky to benefit from that system, then why didn't Vick play well in it? Foles came in and played 100 times better than Vick. Why wasn't Sanchez looking like a borderline elite passer in that system??

So far Foles is the only guy that has played well in that system. He didn't just play well though. He played awesome.

There is no proof that he is some system guy until he plays in several systems and fails. Just pawning some guy off as a system guy who was lucky to have success due to some HC's formations to me is code word for "I just don't like him."

To be honest, Foles was struggling this past season until he got hurt. He wasn't lighting the world on fire this season. So the question remains, was his 2013 season a fluke because of that.

Sanchez played much better in Chip's system in comparison to what he did with the Jets, and Vick was a lost cause.

 

[Marshall]

So you're saying that, in reality, O'Brien outright lied to Hoyer about it really being a straight up, best man win, QB competition?

I was thinking "insurance policy" too but from the "what if Mallett ain't all that" angle. Then again, I guess that's just another way of saying "lack of faith in Mallett".

Expecting your man Mallett to win a competition does not mean there isn't really one and thus, a lie. It does insure that both have to be on top of their game to make the competition meaningful and that expectations aren't overruling results.

 

[ObsiWan]

Expecting your man Mallett to win a competition does not mean there isn't really one and thus, a lie. It does insure that both have to be on top of their game to make the competition meaningful and that expectations aren't overruling results.

See, that "your man" thing bugs me a bit. If it's a true, straight up competition, then neither guy can be "your man".

And maybe that's where O'Brien is, neither is "his guy" and it is a straight up, best performance wins, competition. That's what I'm hoping for. Both guys get equal snaps with the ones and we'll see who the team best responds to and rallies behind.

 

[Double Barrel]

So you're saying that, in reality, O'Brien outright lied to Hoyer about it really being a straight up, best man win, QB competition?

I was thinking "insurance policy" too but from the "what if Mallett ain't all that" angle. Then again, I guess that's just another way of saying "lack of faith in Mallett".

Well, it could be 'insurance policy' in case of Mallett injury, but also could be a policy in case Mallett either fails to earn the starting job or fails to keep it.

I do think O'Brien is going to make them compete for the job. Competition is obviously the basic nature of sports, so regardless if it is against a teammate for position or against an opponent, I would think that constantly having to compete will just make them that much more prepared and even better at their jobs.

I just hope one of them earns it and proves worthy. This QB-limbo crap sucks as a fan. You can expect nothing great from your team until that positions been resolved.

 

[ObsiWan]

Well, it could be 'insurance policy' in case of Mallett injury, but also could be a policy in case Mallett either fails to earn the starting job or fails to keep it.

I do think O'Brien is going to make them compete for the job. Competition is obviously the basic nature of sports, so regardless if it is against a teammate for position or against an opponent, I would think that constantly having to compete will just make them that much more prepared and even better at their jobs.

I just hope one of them earns it and proves worthy. This QB-limbo crap sucks as a fan. You can expect nothing great from your team until that positions been resolved.

Well, as I said, I hope it's a straight-up, no favorites, no expectations (other than their best performances) competition. And once O'Brien picks his winner, he sticks with him.

 

[Texecutioner]

To be honest, Foles was struggling this past season until he got hurt. He wasn't lighting the world on fire this season. So the question remains, was his 2013 season a fluke because of that.

Sanchez played much better in Chip's system in comparison to what he did with the Jets, and Vick was a lost cause.

This is true. I don't dispute anything in this post.

Based on the season two years ago though, I think that is a lot more to consider as a safe investment than Mallet is who is completely unproven and Hoyer who is a proven back up and nothing more than that.

 

[infantrycak]

St. Louis extends Foles' contract 2 years so thru 2017.

Why couldn't he have run our system?

 

[The Pencil Neck]

St. Louis extends Foles' contract 2 years so thru 2017.

Why couldn't he have run our system?

I like Foles. I liked him when he was coming out in the draft. I think he would have been good here.

But it's too early to say for sure whether this was a good or a bad move by Philly or St. Louis. Or us.

 

[thunderkyss]

What are the odds that a third round QB will ever amount to anything? We did that with Schaub, doing it with Mallet... why add another to the mix?

 

[infantrycak]

What are the odds that a third round QB will ever amount to anything? We did that with Schaub, doing it with Mallet... why add another to the mix?

It's not a Mallett v. Foles thing. It's Foles v. Hoyer - which to bring in as an improvement from last year.

Veteran - 24 starts v. 17
Quality play - 94.2 rating (65 QBR) v. 76.8 rating (45 QBR)
Age - 26 yrs v. 29 yrs

Foles already has amounted to something in this league. He was just caught with a mad scientist HC.

 

[ObsiWan]

St. Louis extends Foles' contract 2 years so thru 2017.

Why couldn't he have run our system?

We don't know that he couldn't run our offense.
The thing is Kelly had his eye on Sam Bradford (for whatever reason) and I doubt Kelly would have been interested in either of the QBs on our roster.

 

[thunderkyss]

It's not a Mallett v. Foles thing. It's Foles v. Hoyer - which to bring in as an improvement from last year.

Veteran - 24 starts v. 17
Quality play - 94.2 rating (65 QBR) v. 76.8 rating (45 QBR)
Age - 26 yrs v. 29 yrs

Foles already has amounted to something in this league. He was just caught with a mad scientist HC.

I understand what you're saying. Hopefully our coaches view Hoyer similarly & he was brought in with the intent to be our backup & help teach our system as & only "run" our system if shy hits the fan.

 

[infantrycak]

We don't know that he couldn't run our offense.
The thing is Kelly had his eye on Sam Bradford (for whatever reason) and I doubt Kelly would have been interested in either of the QBs on our roster.

Trades aren't done only QB for QB.

 

[ObsiWan]

Trades aren't done only QB for QB.

Of course not. But who would we have offered that Kelly would want for Foles? Foster? Multi-picks?
I think Kelly was eyeing Bradford, plain and simple.
....I still don't know why because I'm not sure Bradford is an upgrade over Foles.

 

[infantrycak]

Of course not. But who would we have offered that Kelly would want for Foles? Foster? Multi-picks?
I think Kelly was eyeing Bradford, plain and simple.
....I still don't know why because I'm not sure Bradford is an upgrade over Foles.

Picks would be the conventional route.

Is Kelly really that high on Bradford? He's on the last year of his egregiously expensive contract. Haven't seen an extension for him.

Foles on the other hand has his extension. 2 years $24.5 mil, $13.9 mil guaranteed.

 

[ObsiWan]

Picks would be the conventional route.

Is Kelly really that high on Bradford? He's on the last year of his egregiously expensive contract. Haven't seen an extension for him.

Foles on the other hand has his extension. 2 years $24.5 mil, $13.9 mil guaranteed.

Like I said, I have no idea why Kelly traded away a QB who's thrown 40 TDs vs. 13 INTs in his system for injury-prone Sam Bradford.
But who the hell knows what Chip Kelly is thinking.
And I doubt we see a Bradford extension until he shows he can stay healthy for an entire season.

 

[thunderkyss]

Picks would be the conventional route.

Is Kelly really that high on Bradford? He's on the last year of his egregiously expensive contract. Haven't seen an extension for him.

Foles on the other hand has his extension. 2 years $24.5 mil, $13.9 mil guaranteed.

I don't know what those extensions say just yet.

Who initiated the trade? I can see St Louis being optimistic if they were targeting Foles. It does sound strange there hasn't been so much as a peep about a Bradford extension if Philly was targeting him.

 

[thunderkyss]

Like I said, I have no idea why Kelly traded away a QB who's thrown 40 TDs vs. 13 INTs in his system for injury-prone Sam Bradford.
But who the hell knows what Chip Kelly is thinking.
And I doubt we see a Bradford extension until he shows he can stay healthy for an entire season.

Without Jackson, Macklin, & McCoy, maybe he didn't see the same results going forward.