Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
Nick Foles
- Thread starter Playoffs
- Start date
PHILLYTEXANFAN
Saddle Up Partner
A lot hate him. Two of my good buddies are losing their minds over this. One thinks Kelley is a mole for a team to ruin the Eagles and pull a petrino
PHILLYTEXANFAN
Saddle Up Partner
Picks haven't been confirmed, a local sports caster says its conditional picks not for this year
PHILLYTEXANFAN
Saddle Up Partner
That deal is laughable
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Early reports were off on this complicated deal...
So Bradford I guess is "the man" unless Chip trades him next week.
I'll go ahead and retract my support while I
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Early reports were off on this complicated deal...
So Bradford I guess is "the man" unless Chip trades him next week.
I'll go ahead and retract my support while I
& Texans traded what for Matt Schaub?
Just last year I was saying no one would give up anything of any substance for a QB who isn't committed beyond the current year. & here, we have two teams that have done just that.
The Rams traded a 2015 fifth round pick & a conditional 3rd/4th round pick for a QB whose contract runs out this season.
The Eagles gave up a 2015 2nd round pick for a QB whose contract runs out this season.
I was wrong. There are those out there that would do such a thing.
Last edited:
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
I'm not so sure Foles is the better QB. A healthy Bradford was very effective in 2013 with no weapons while Foles was effectively benched last year for Mark Sanchez. A lot of people are high on Foles because of what he did in 2013, but I think this past year was a better representation of his true talent level.
Health is the big thing with Bradford. He's talented, but you just can't rely on him to be there for 16 games.
Foles had better talent in DeSean Jackson in 2013, to be sure. But benched? The guy had his shoulder separated in the Texans game. I can't see a reason to completely discount a 2013 season that was head and shoulders better than any Bradford ever had.
Foles has a bigger arm, is a better athlete than Bradford (not that it's saying much at this point), and is just as accurate. Bradford's "effective" 2013 saw him complete 60% in a dink and dunk offense. And the bottom line is that Bradford can't stay on the field. Another ACL, and he'll join Jake Locker in Retiresville. A nutty trade. Nutty. Cojones grandes just for asking for the 2nd round pick by the Rams. This is the deal that will make them relevant.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Effectively benched. Am I misremembering or was he healthy at the end of the year yet the Eagles stuck with Sanchez?
Foles did have Jackson in 2013 and had a great year. The best receiver Bradford has ever thrown to on the Rams? Danny Amendola. Give him a guy like Jackson and I'd love to see what he could do.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I feel like the Rams got him for a steal today. The Texans should have been making offers and trying to negotiate with Philly while all this was going on. I've been really high on OB since he came here, but to see a trade like this happen with a QB who has done some impressive things and is really young is pretty upsetting.
Mallet was the best option to take a chance on between the FA's, and having Hoyer as a potential back up or to beat him out as a starter wasn't all that bad considering the other alternatives. However, Texans management let Mallet run off and negotiate with other teams and weren't exactly trying to lock him down. They seem to think that Hoyer could have a good shot at beating him for the starting position potentially. That makes me feel like the Texans really weren't all that high on Mallet's potential if they aren't 100% sure that he can beat out Hoyer.
With Foles being let go like that for Bradford and picks changes things a lot. Mallet hasn't proven squat at the end of the day. We should have been all over Foles who is a perfect fit for this offense.
Mallet was the best option to take a chance on between the FA's, and having Hoyer as a potential back up or to beat him out as a starter wasn't all that bad considering the other alternatives. However, Texans management let Mallet run off and negotiate with other teams and weren't exactly trying to lock him down. They seem to think that Hoyer could have a good shot at beating him for the starting position potentially. That makes me feel like the Texans really weren't all that high on Mallet's potential if they aren't 100% sure that he can beat out Hoyer.
With Foles being let go like that for Bradford and picks changes things a lot. Mallet hasn't proven squat at the end of the day. We should have been all over Foles who is a perfect fit for this offense.
DX-TEX
#TomSavageDontCare
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
How so? Anyone with an ear anywhere near the NFL has known that Chip hasn't been fond of Foles or any other top players from the last regime over there. It hasn't been hard to figure out that Chip wants Mariotta and would likely deal Foles. We could have easily been in there giving offers. I mean, god forbid we actually use a QB that has had nice success in this league that is young.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106794
Let it play out. We'll see how good Foles is.
Let it play out. We'll see how good Foles is.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Hoyer or no Hoyer, we're rolling with an unknown which I'm okay with considering the situation. However, Foles has been available for a while obviously if he was let go for that. We don't have squat at the moment at QB. Our own coaches aren't sure that Mallet can beat out Hoyer.
Foles was one of the best QB's in the league two years ago in his first year starting and got hurt last season. He is as good as any available QB that you'll find for the next few years. 27-2 for a first year starter.
Bradford doesn't have the arm to get the ball downfield to Jackson. The funny thing is, Sanchez will probably end up the Eagles QB again in 2015. Maybe he's the answer for Kelly? I have no idea what the guy is thinking.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
We will, but with what we know now, Mallet and Foles aren't even comparable.
One guy had a monster season, and the other hasn't even proven to be Matt Flynn worthy yet. Flynn actually had at least one monster game before having trust put in him.
If Mallet is all we had any opportunities at, then so be it. Today showed that wasn't the case though. Foles is ten times the better investment at this point in time. You're gambling with someone that has actually shown that he can play at a high level in this league. That is a huge difference than being a "has been" from college who's biggest accomplishment is playing behind Brady.
I'm not suggesting what Foles would have looked like with the Texans shouldn't be discussed. It's just that it should be discussed in a thread in the NFL forum, because he doesn't play for the Texans.
michaelm
vox nihili
You can't assume we had a shot at Foles just because he was traded. Chip Kelly is clearly insane, so he might have been after Bradford specifically. Who knows?
So what would you have given up in trade? We didn't even have a Bradford to give
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Bradford has been the better QB.
Foles went 27-2 as a first year starter on a team that wasn't expected to do anything. What other rookies have you ever seen that throw anywhere near a number like 2 INTERCEPTIONS? He started for like 12 or 13 games, so he likely would have had like 4, but he also would have had probably around 33 TD's. Those are MVP type numbers by a first year player. He began to get MVP mentions at the end of that year by some analysts. He wasn't going to win it by any means. He also had a 7 TD game as well where he was taken out at the beginning of the 4th quarter. He also played in his first playoff game.
Bradford has never done anything close to that.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
A #1 pick easy. A proven QB is worth your picks. Go look at half the teams in the league who don't have a QB and look at how long teams like the Bills and Dolphins and Bucs haven't had one for. Hell, look at the Texans outside of like 3 Schaub years.
Are you telling me that a QB that threw 27-2 in like 12 games wouldn't be worth a #1 pick when you don't have anything else on your roster? #1 picks are way overrated any way when you consider how many of them are busts. I'll take my chances with players who have proven they can play any day of the week if they are young like Foles is. Foles did things as a first year starter that you don't ever see in the NFL. He was only like a 3rd year player.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
My bad. Wasn't done on purpose. Please feel free to move if need be.
I thought it was a Texans thread though, considering that it was a guy that the Texans should have gone after and I was discussing the disappointment in the fact that we weren't active in pursuing this very aggressively.
It doesn't matter to me where the thread exists though.
Here's what I think. The Texans had shots at every rookie QB in the 2014 class. They could have signed any FA QB in the 2015 class. And they could have traded for Foles. All of that is on record. If O'Brien finds a QB from what he has now, none of that matters. If none of the QBs come through, well he's screwed up and put this franchise back. It's on O'Brien to make this happen. I'm sure he realizes that.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I agree with you that it is on him to do it, but he has to have opportunities at good QB's. Last year's draft is arguable either way at this point, but FA's wise he hasn't had anything that was quality. Foles is another story though. That was a big opportunity, and we can't afford to waste any opportunities at QB. You're right that if Mallet turns into a stud then this is moot, but right now we don't know that. I don't like putting our chances in a guy like Mallet if Foles could have been had. It isn't that we don't possibly have an option that could work out. It is that we are gambling on much lower odds based on what we know and don't know currently. You can't afford to pass up on franchise QB's in this league.
A little off topic, but along the same lines. We're negotiating with Vince Wilfork. Man's trying to decide whether he'll retire or play for $10M.
We probably had no idea that Ngata could be had for a 4th & 5th.
He's paying $13M to Bradford, gave up a 2015 5th & next year's second (far as i can tell) to get him.
Doesn't that take them out of the Mariota race?
I do not believe that O'Brien's offensive scheme is a plug-and-play with any given QB.
I think O'Brien has some basic requirements that many QBs do not possess, and this alone means the Texans will not bother to look at them. I would assume that a guy like Foles does not meet those requirements in O'Brien's perspective. I do not think they would hesitate to try to make a deal if O'Brien thought Foles was the guy.
I think O'Brien has some basic requirements that many QBs do not possess, and this alone means the Texans will not bother to look at them. I would assume that a guy like Foles does not meet those requirements in O'Brien's perspective. I do not think they would hesitate to try to make a deal if O'Brien thought Foles was the guy.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
...in 2050.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Not sure at all how you would come up with some assessment like that if you've seen Foles on the field. He is the same type of guy as Mallet and Brady. A really tall slender guy with a nice arm that can stand over the pocket and make all of the throws. He isn't mobile but has great pocket presence. That is pretty much exactly what has excelled in OB's system. This isn't some Colin Kaepernick type of player we are talking about here. If Foles isn't capable in this system, then neither would Mallet be.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I don't see how OB wouldn't have been interested. My presumption is they didn't want to pay whatever price was required. This could end up being a tremendous missed opportunity.
two 2nd rd picks.
no other players.
and they got two pro bowl seasons, two division championship seasons, and 3 4000+ yd seasons out of him.
The year Kubiak went and got Schaub (2007) the top QBs in that draft were JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Kevin Kolb, Drew Stanton, John Beck, Trent Edwards, and Isaiah Stanback.
why did you ask?
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
I've seen Foles and thought the same thing about fitting into O'Brien's system.
I can only surmise that either O'Brien has his guy in Mallett and prefers him due to the experience in this system, or, there is something about Foles that O'Brien does not like.
The one constant knock about Foles last season was accuracy (many point to sloppy foot work), and if you know anything about O'Brien, accuracy is one of the top three qualities that he wants in his QB. Maybe that has something to do with it.
It would appear like a missed opportunity, but we have so little information to go on that we can only speculate. Either the Texans dropped the ball here with Foles, or, there was something they did not like about him.
And since O'Brien had Foles on his radar, even complimenting him on making good decisions (one of the three top qualities valued by O'Brien), then I can oly assume that there was something else they did not like.
That's how I arrived at my assessment, fwiw.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I've always said you have to move heaven and earth to get a really good QB when they're out there. The season Foles had two years ago simply can't be denied though man.
If OB like Fitzpatrick and likes Mallet/Hoyer, then I have to start seriously questioning his judgment at this point. I've been a big supporter of OB, but at this point under his management the Texans drafted one of the biggest busts in history in Clowney while passing over Bortles who I was huge one, and still like his potential all so he could go into our division. This off season, we didn't go heavy at throwing all types of trade bait for Foles now. That is two QB's he has passed on now all so he could try this Mallet/Hoyer experiment? If Mallet turns out to be really good, then this is all moot. But the fact that OB doesn't even seem certain that Mallet can beat out Hoyer, well that worries me a lot and if it doesn't worry OB, then shoot my support for him may have been misplaced this entire time. We all know what Hoyer's potential ceiling would be on his best day and it aint much. Why he would think that Hoyer/Mallet is a better investment than Foles is beyond me, and I can't get behind this QB situation now that I know that Foles was up for the taking. I was okay with it before, but this changes all of that.
I'm so sick and tired of having trash at QB in this league. It makes it so frustrating to root for this franchise when I look at all of their blown opportunities over the years. This team can get all of the good players they want, but until they get a franchise QB, it won't matter. We'll be wasting the great years of Watt which sickens me. I don't think OB, Mcnair, or Smith have the sense of urgency to find a QB that they need to have at this point.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
That is exactly what I'm saying Cak. I mean, what in the hell? Pay a first round pick and a 3rd or something. I'd have been fine with that even though it seems like a lot. You look at these QB's that come in the draft every year, and it seems harder and harder to find one even if you have a top 5 pick.
I'm astonished that Kelly is dumb enough to get rid of him after that season he had two years ago, but nothing surprises me about Chip anymore. One thing I've always hated about the Texans is that they don't ever make that big move to change their future in a major way. You've got to take risks at some point, and we may not ever get another opportunity at a guy as good as Foles for several years if Foles ends up playing as well in St. Louis as he did in Philly two years ago.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
...
That's probably the most logical way to look at the situation.
There is also the possibility, however slight, that he is confident that he can do something special with Ryan Mallett & if the unthinkable happens, he doesn't want to squander a play off appearance with Fitzpatrick.
Sure, Fitz has picked up the system, but he's still learning the nuances.
I keep thinking about Matt Cassel. Not a great QB by any stretch, but in New England that one year, & in Kansas City that one year with Weiscz... very productive.
Maybe he saw what he was able to accomplish in 2014 & realized how badly the QB stymied what could have been.
Uh-oh.. alcohol wearing off. I gotta go make another drink.
I don't disagree with your perspective. I guess my jury is still out on O'Brien and his QB decisions until we see what we have in Mallett. I really liked the potential of his history with NE and learning from Brady, and he looked good for the one game he was healthy last year. So, my attitude is very much wait and see before I make a verdict.
On Hoyer, I have a different take. I do not think it is O'Brien's lack of faith in Mallett. I think Hoyer is pure insurance policy. O'Brien went through four QBs last year due to injury. I think he wants the insurance of having a backup in place that is experienced with his system. I think it is as simple as that. Mallett will "earn" the starting gig this off-season and training camp, but Hoyer is there to give both a competitive vibe to earning the spot as well as insurance if Mallett gets hurt.
As far as Foles, I'm just not sure what O'Brien did not see in him. Maybe the price was too high? Chip is now making the claim that a team has already offered their first pick for Sam Bradford. If true, then the asking price for Foles might simply have been too high. What would you have been comfortable giving up for Foles? That is part of the questions that we must ask ourselves, because I do not think O'Brien is a fool. I'm certain he knew Foles was potentially available, but Chip was asking too much for him. Remember the Patriots-way is to never pay or trade too much for a player. That is one of their iron-clad rules for personnel management and a fundamental reason why they remain competitive year after year (that and having Brady, of course).
So you're saying that, in reality, O'Brien outright lied to Hoyer about it really being a straight up, best man win, QB competition?
I was thinking "insurance policy" too but from the "what if Mallett ain't all that" angle. Then again, I guess that's just another way of saying "lack of faith in Mallett".