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Eagles trade LeSean McCoy to Bills for Kiko Alonso
- Thread starter Playoffs
- Start date
Michael Silver ‏@MikeSilver
Chip! Chip! Chip!
-- ex-Eagle Todd Herremans on Chip Kelly's thinking.
That was a GREAT trade by Chip. He will be able to replace Mcoy easily in this draft and he got a really really good young LB. I wanted to us to draft Alanso bad. Stupid move by the bills. They will regret this.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Well things have changed a little since the draft. Alonso missed last season with a blown ACL.
This is interesting. Trading Shady seems shady and I am curious as to what's up. I could see it in rebuilding, but they were so close to the play offs, and possibly contending all the way to the Super Bowl. I wonder if they have draft picks in mind or Murray. These next few days could be worthy of popcorn.
What's next? Massive trade for Mariota?
Suh, Cobb and Murray
What's next? Massive trade for Mariota?
Philly is at 19 or 20, and a move all the way to somewhere in the top 5 to get Mariota would be mortgaging lots of future Drafts for the QB. Man it would be fun to tag along after Kelly to Vegas, bet that guy makes some healthy bets at the BL table or poker table, whatever his pleasure is.
TEXANRED
Texan-American
What's next? Massive trade for Mariota?
Clearing cap space for Andre.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I wouldn't have made that trade. I think the bills won.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Alonso will play ILB in a 34 so his lateral movement won't be as big of a concern as it would have been in Buffalo's scheme. He is likely replacing Demeco, who is coming off a torn Achilles. I expect that he won't be with Philly when the season starts.
Alonso will also be playing next to Mychal Kendricks, who is damn good and can cover up his deficiencies. Philly now looks pretty solid at LB. They have a three man rotation inside with Acho also there. And outside they have Barwin and Marcus Smith, who they just drafted in the first round.
Losing a guy like McCoy could hurt, but he's way too expensive and Kelly values skill sets over athletic talent anyway. Instead of taking the most overall talented guys he likes to take the guys who are the most talented in whatever specific skill set he is looking for. So McCoy's production could theoretically be replaced by a guy who isn't as talented overall, but is really good at some specific things.
Alonso will also be playing next to Mychal Kendricks, who is damn good and can cover up his deficiencies. Philly now looks pretty solid at LB. They have a three man rotation inside with Acho also there. And outside they have Barwin and Marcus Smith, who they just drafted in the first round.
Losing a guy like McCoy could hurt, but he's way too expensive and Kelly values skill sets over athletic talent anyway. Instead of taking the most overall talented guys he likes to take the guys who are the most talented in whatever specific skill set he is looking for. So McCoy's production could theoretically be replaced by a guy who isn't as talented overall, but is really good at some specific things.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I also think this is a good move for Buffalo. Preston Brown is their MLB of the future, which made Alonso expendable.
McCoy more than easily replaces Spiller and takes additional work away from Fred Jackson, who is starting to get up there in age.
Ryan wants to run the ball and play defense. This helps them.
McCoy more than easily replaces Spiller and takes additional work away from Fred Jackson, who is starting to get up there in age.
Ryan wants to run the ball and play defense. This helps them.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
As always a couple savvy football takes bah007.
Ryan win now mentality, ultimately the higher risk. Kelly familiarity/obsession with his former Ducks a little troubling & fuels fire in association with trading up for Mariota. Maybe this will help Foster (lol) more trades, NFL is far less interesting in this category than Basketball or Baseball. Heck Billy Beane probably made more trades alone than all NFL combined.
Ryan win now mentality, ultimately the higher risk. Kelly familiarity/obsession with his former Ducks a little troubling & fuels fire in association with trading up for Mariota. Maybe this will help Foster (lol) more trades, NFL is far less interesting in this category than Basketball or Baseball. Heck Billy Beane probably made more trades alone than all NFL combined.
texasguy346
Mod Squad
I like this trade for the Eagles. I'm thinking that they may end up signing CJ Spiller now that the Bills have replaced him with McCoy. I think he'd fit well into their offense.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
I think this is a good trade for both sides. Philly trades away a 10+ million cap number and a player that supposedly didn't mesh well with Chip. They get a badass LB when he's healthy again. The Bills get the RB they needed badly. Jackson's old and Spiller isn't near as good as McCoy. McCoy is basically the Bills 1st round draft pick since they don't have one this year.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I'm mixed on this trade. McCoy was a special talent and in his prime. I don't see those guys as easily replaceable. Alonso while good, is coming off blowing out his knee. Kendricks can make up for Alonso's deficiencies, but he was banged up alot last year too.
I want to see what Chip does with the cap money. This could be a good move or the move that gets him relieved of his GM duties.
I want to see what Chip does with the cap money. This could be a good move or the move that gets him relieved of his GM duties.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Chip Kelly dumps Pro Bowl WR Desean Jackson and trades away Pro Bowl RB McCoy both inside of a year. He's refreshingly unencumbered by traditional NFL thinking. Maybe it is impossible to move up from #20 to draft Mariota, but I can't put it past Kelly. Watching and learning.
RB production by age: http://www.footballperspective.com/a-closer-look-at-running-back-aging-patterns-part-ii/
RB production by age: http://www.footballperspective.com/a-closer-look-at-running-back-aging-patterns-part-ii/
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Love to see someone do that chart for top RB's (some cut off like 2+ pro bowls). There's lots of guys like Peyton Hillis that get one or two decent seasons. Not sure including them gives a good perspective on the careers of real RBs.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Kelly is an analytics guy.
ProFootballFocus: rated McCoy 55th/57 RBs overall (>25% snaps) in 2014. 36th in running, 34th in blocking, and dead last in passing.
Football Outsiders ranked McCoy 24th in DVOA, a value over average metric.
PFF 2015 Offensive Line rankings: Eagles 2nd, Bills 30th.
ProFootballFocus: rated McCoy 55th/57 RBs overall (>25% snaps) in 2014. 36th in running, 34th in blocking, and dead last in passing.
Football Outsiders ranked McCoy 24th in DVOA, a value over average metric.
PFF 2015 Offensive Line rankings: Eagles 2nd, Bills 30th.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Can you post this list?
I like looking at PFF too but sometimes their stats scream out WTF and this is one of them. 55th RB is putting people like Ben Tate, Toby Gerhart and Reggie Bush ahead of him and that's pretty much insane.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I had heard that Kelly wasn't really a fan of McCoy's running style. He has a tendency to go where he wants instead of where he's supposed to and that drives a control freak like Kelly crazy. He put up with it because he had to. Now he's in charge and he doesn't have to anymore.
Sproles was also incredibly productive in his small role. People are saying that Murray is expendable in Dallas because their OL is so good. What if it's the same way for McCoy?
Sproles was also incredibly productive in his small role. People are saying that Murray is expendable in Dallas because their OL is so good. What if it's the same way for McCoy?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
If Foles hadn't gotten his head ripped off his shoulders so many times last year they might have a point. McCoy racked up yardage late in games b/c defenses were tired, not b/c that o-line was good. Apart from that, McCoy's running style made alot of things happen that otherwise wouldn't have been there with lesser agile RB's.
TEXANRED
Texan-American
Another example of how PFF is a terrible site.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Have requested permission.
Can you see this: Inspecting McCoys Production
Looking at RBs who took more than 50% of team snaps -- solid starters -- McCoy rated 16th/23 rushing, 15th/23 blocking, and dead last in passing which drags his overall grade down the most. So PFF anf FO have him ~same.
In 2013 he was 1st in rush, 6th in pass, 30th in blocking, and 1st/31 RBs overall (>50% team snaps).
McCoy is 10th in touches (rush/catch) [URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/touches_active.htm"]among all active RBs[/URL].
Don't overlook the salary cap dump this gave them. Kelly probably sees zone runners as a commodity, and you need to play above replacement value to warrant taking so much cap space.
He seems to want traits/skills guys with "see ball, get ball" mentalities except for offensive linemen, who he values highly.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Yes. Frankly it looks like a classic case of skewing opinion off of stats. I can make a real good case that what those numbers reflect is an OL that got worse.
I wasn't criticizing the deal. I was doubting ratings that call McCoy a hack RB.
I would agree except nobody knows how good Alonso is better than Kelly. I think Kelly thinks he can replace McCoy's production with Sproles/Polk/cheap FA/draft pick. Time will tell if he's right. I think Polk is a stud.
McCoy is a great RB though. A true homerun hitter that can do it all.
Chip Kelly dumps Pro Bowl WR Desean Jackson and trades away Pro Bowl RB McCoy both inside of a year. He's refreshingly unencumbered by traditional NFL thinking. Maybe it is impossible to move up from #20 to draft Mariota, but I can't put it past Kelly. Watching and learning.
RB production by age: http://www.footballperspective.com/a-closer-look-at-running-back-aging-patterns-part-ii/
Yep I could see Kelly trading this yrs entire draft and a pick gotten in trading Foles plus next yrs #1 for Mariota. That's thinking outside the box. Do you think Buffalo would give up a 2nd for Foles? I do.
Kelly would then fill in the roster with the new found cap room in FA and any comp picks the Eagles have. Do the Eagles have any comp picks? More thinking outside the box.
Bills just traded for Cassel so I doubt they would trade for Foles
but we're talking the Bills AND Rex Ryan
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
I think he declined to close to average in 2014, with 2nd highest RB contract. People laugh at my fantasy football references, but McCoy was drafted #1 overall by a lot of people and was just 13th among only RBs in performance scoring.
Now there were extenuating circumstances but he was still 2nd in rush attempts.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
It makes sense that his numbers would decline...teams hedged their bets on McCoy last year figuring out that if they kept him in check, Foles/Sanchez couldn't consistently beat teams with his arm. They were right as well. Foles threw more ints in 1 game than he threw all of last season.
Some people just don't get it.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I heard then called BLINDERS when horses wear them.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
I'm getting that they'll work something out/he's staying.
Scooter
Funky
I get the injury concern over Kiko, but if he's the least bit healthy this trade is so lopsided it's sad. This reminds me a bit of the Clinton Portis for Champ Bailey trade. Portis ended up having about 4 good seasons with Washington, Champ will probably be in the hall of fame with Denver after 9 great seasons. Runningbacks are just too dime-a-dozen these days to hold onto for too high a price, or especially if a trade for a stud defensive player comes available.
Again, this all hinges on Kiko's health. He's still young, my guess is he'll be ok.
Again, this all hinges on Kiko's health. He's still young, my guess is he'll be ok.
Heath Shuler
SPEED KILLS
PHILLYTEXANFAN
Saddle Up Partner
All I know is Eagle fans are losing their minds
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
They don't like Chip?
First, I read that Frank Gore was going to the Eagles, now it seems that he is more interested in becoming a Colt. Of course I could feel differently in the future, but right now, I could enjoy a bag of popcorn.
