Like the Crabtree suggestion, though wouldn't want to go big $$$. Not interested in anyone on this list other than Cobb and Marshall. Cobb will be a hard sign and Marshall is a head case. But, I'm sure the Texans have a plan. Right?
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Andre Johnson released - cut by Colts - signs with Titans
- Thread starter TheMatrix31
- Start date
More vitriol?
eriadoc
Texan-American
Sure. I've never had anything but vitriol for Rick Smith. It's all right there in my post history. Give me a couple more incidents like this paired with a continually mediocre result and I'll start lumping B'OB in there, too.
Except AJ didn't want to take a paycut and I don't blame him.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Except we don't know that.
I guess you could believe that everyone is lying in a coordinated plan to all look inept.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
It will be nice watching AJ make clutch catches for a contender. Team First fans are probably excited. I'm actually a little sad. End of an era for the greatest Texan ever. See you in Canton Dre, it was a blast.
Well said, man. It is bizarre to hear the "40 catch" conversation. First thing is that, if true, it shows some of the cards in the Texans intended direction on offense. It does not make sense from a football strategy perspective to reveal that your no. 1 and outside WR is going to be used less in 2015.
If he was really advised about a reduced role, it is something that we should never have heard about until well after the 2015 season is over.
They should have kept it simple: it's about money and trying to make things work under a salary cap. This is a logical and understandable explanation, and it does not carry the rather goofy mentality of "reduced role", which is really unprofessional when you think about it.
I agree from a fan perspective. That would be awesome,
But, the same folks that would be needed to pass such a policy are the same greedy bastards that implemented a salary cap to keep players from making "too much" money. They do not want loopholes. This is about profit, plain and simple. Championships ultimately mean more revenue, but truly not much different than having a star player that sells lots of merchandise.
This is a mercenary business, man, and the sooner we understand and embrace the concept of "rooting for laundry" the better. We all root for corporate logos at the end of the day. "Loyalty" is merely a concept to ensure more merchandise sale. My closet is full of those "loyalty purchases".
Very odd, this is what I believe happened.
BOB was being a good company man who was willing to take the heat for McNair/Smith. I don't have a problem with this. Nor do I blame AJ for walking out.
They aren't ept enough to do that.
PapaL
Loose Screw
REP!
I only want one team to win a ring, ours. If you're not on our team, best of luck in second place. I will still proudly wear my #80 and firmly believe no other WR in Texans history should wear that number again.
Now/Now, Cant be comparing BoB to Bud.
That will cause a lot of vitriol in this forum. (I'm trying to see how many times I can use the word Vitriol today. LOL)
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
How is this making AJ look inept?
The butthurt is strong in this thread.
Does know no one see this for what it is. The Texans knew they were going to cut Andre if he didn't agree to a paycut. Andre already wanted out, he has wanted to go play for a team with known commodity at QB.
In an effort to let him go without him having to be cut (looks bad on him, not worth the money, give him more leverage to negotiate new contract with new team) or him trashing the franchise. He gets to go out and try and get a contract for what he believes he is worth and play for the QB of his choice (kind of). Then in 2 years when he decides to retire he can come back to the franchise as a hero who always loved the team and never complained or threw the team under the bus.
I don't doubt Bill let him know he was not going to be a focal point. Bill likes to spread the ball out. Didn't feel Andre, being the 2nd highest paid receiver in the league, would have any chance of earning that cash.
This is a business, it is the right move, you expect younger guys to step up and fill the holes. Hopkins was mentored for 2 years by Andre, he can fill that role, you now how someone new can step up and play opposite of Hopkins (IMO, Posey can be that guy).
Most of you sound like scorned lovers who were just cheated on by your wife/gf. Get over it, the writing was on the wall last season. He wasn't going to get cut or traded because the numbers didn't add up. This season it makes sense to move on, Andre is owed too much money. We have lots of holes we can patch with that cash.
Does know no one see this for what it is. The Texans knew they were going to cut Andre if he didn't agree to a paycut. Andre already wanted out, he has wanted to go play for a team with known commodity at QB.
In an effort to let him go without him having to be cut (looks bad on him, not worth the money, give him more leverage to negotiate new contract with new team) or him trashing the franchise. He gets to go out and try and get a contract for what he believes he is worth and play for the QB of his choice (kind of). Then in 2 years when he decides to retire he can come back to the franchise as a hero who always loved the team and never complained or threw the team under the bus.
I don't doubt Bill let him know he was not going to be a focal point. Bill likes to spread the ball out. Didn't feel Andre, being the 2nd highest paid receiver in the league, would have any chance of earning that cash.
This is a business, it is the right move, you expect younger guys to step up and fill the holes. Hopkins was mentored for 2 years by Andre, he can fill that role, you now how someone new can step up and play opposite of Hopkins (IMO, Posey can be that guy).
Most of you sound like scorned lovers who were just cheated on by your wife/gf. Get over it, the writing was on the wall last season. He wasn't going to get cut or traded because the numbers didn't add up. This season it makes sense to move on, Andre is owed too much money. We have lots of holes we can patch with that cash.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Well it's not exactly a good picture to try to sell your next employer that OB supposedly thinks AJ isn't better than a 40 catch guy now.
And you're acting like other people are being delusional?
If OB had any thought in the world that Posey will be replacing AJ, he's an incompetent boob for not having Posey active and on the field for more than 1 game last season. Posey is closer to a couch and a bag of Cheetos than to a starting gig.
Great post.
Everybody but Cak knows the Texans were going to ask AJ to take a paycut. How does anybody really know what goes on behind the sceenes in the Texans org.
All we can do is speculate.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Almost nobody on this board believes that (I know I certainly don't). Let's hope for Andre's sake that the folks who evaluate this type of thing for a living are at least as sharp as a bunch of goobers on a MB.
I don't know what the real story is, and I never expect to. While there are some comments in this thread that it is the right move or the Texans to make, there are none (or at least few enough that I completely missed them if they were made) that criticize AJ's handling of this issue. There are numerous posts that are critical (to put it mildly) of the Texans handling of said issue.
Had this simply been a story of "We asked Andre to take a pay cut and he said no", I'm guessing that criticism wouldn't have been quite as one-sided.
Again, not even pretending to know what really happened, just examining the possibilities.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
If you're going to reference me, do it accurately.
I have suggested revised deals for AJ repeatedly.
I wouldn't have a harsh opinion of either side and I doubt hardly anyone would have been critical if that had been the announcement.
Never going to please everyone, but no significant furor.
HTown2ATX
TexansMetalhead
Which is why they should have gotten rid of him right after the the latest #1 overall pick FAIL of a season in this franchises first 10+ years of existence. Now they won't get squat for him and they just pissed on the face of the franchise (or at least was, obviously JJ is in town now). Again, I think most of us are ok with AJ being gone, but they didn't have to give him a rubber glove on the way out the door. My beef is how they handled it or rather botched it in classic Texans style.
This front office is a tad too short bussed to pull that off or plan that out fap fap.
So it's OB's job to count the cash, thought that was Rick Smith or someone else? Also, with the **** brigade at QB for now, who exactly is it that is going to be spreading the ball around all bad ass like?
Ah, the olllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll' "this is a business" line of thought.
As far as I can tell AJ was willing to and in fact did restructure his contract multiple times to help the team. He was then told last year to basically "hang in there kid we got you" and then he gets this?.... If that is how businesses are that some people work in then holy fuq that must be a **** fuqng job. We all want to cry "honor your contract" when a player holds out, but when management doesn't honor it, "oh hey, it's a business champ, suck it up, have some balls and fuq off".
The scorned lover bit gets some fap fap
But aside from that how did the numbers not add up to trade him earlier? If that is the case then ok, maybe I need to rethink my stance but I have not seen nor heard hard evidence of that. Right now this just seems like a missed opportunity to trade someone earlier and get something for it and now pissing on the first HoF player in your .500 on average somewhat of a league joke history. Was he owed too much? Sure. Who's fault was that, he didn't have a gun to their head when contracts were made and he restructured more than once. And fill holes with who and for what? To go to the playoffs this year? To win a SB? With what QB?
Getting rid of him. Fine. When and how it was done. Typical Texans. /end
PS - Andre isn't exactly sucking out there. He still has gas in the tank and I think that is a factor in this too. He was like #12 in the NFL in receptions last year and was still putting up elite numbers not very long ago. Getting older sure, done, not quite. He's like the Spurs of football right now. Everyone just looks at his age and assumes it's over when it isn't yet. Also, pretty funny how when AJ held out everyone wanted him to stay via "honor your contract"....different tune now eh?
You were trying to make a point of we don't really know what was going on. (I guess) I actually was agreeing with you. To be fair what went on is all pure speculation. Your revised deals mean sqaut, the same as mine would have if I had suggested a deal. The McNair's are going to do what the McNair's are going to do. If we want to remain fans of the team we will just have to learn to live with this fact.
You and I seem to be agreeing a lot lately.
Something in the water?
Must be, I actually think you and I are a lot alike. We both have strong personalities and what we say is usually right but things get messed up in our presentations. Kubiak not withstanding.
badboy
Hall of Fame
uh.. you know he is leaving them nothing? He is giving it to Bill & Malinda Gate's foundaation; still there are perks.
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
I used to work for an entertainment promoter. At one event, a few goons from Reliant Stadium came down and extorted money from us. Kind of viewed the whole organization on Kirby in a new light. Apparently that is not uncommon with various other events in the city.
chicagotexan2
Easterby = Little Finger/Cal = Fredo Corleone
Dale Robertson ‏@sportywineguy
Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli
#54 is LB that came in for killshot only to be bounced like 3yr old running into an inflatable bouncy house. This clip never gets old.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Link
83% goes to the Gates Foundation. Most of the rest will go to other charities but 1% of 73 billion is not nothing.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I posted last night #217:
"I like AJ but leaving emotions out of it, this could open some interesting options. 51 contracts 2015 cap is $132.8 minus AJ's $9= $123 m. More important is 2016 $86.6 minus AJ $12 m= $74 m. Contracts can be relatively smaller '15 and much higher in '16. *note elevators, PS, draft, etc needs to be figured in but I've seen $5-7 m ranges so not astronomical.
WR free agency Randall on seeking about $9m avg. Doable
OT free agency Bryan Bulaga about the same
Issue is I think Packers bring both back with the $33 m cap space available. I am not overly excited about other FAs these two positions. I think Texans bring back Newton, sign a vet to replace Clabo cheaply and draft a player. I think they think Hopkins is their #1 and they bring Posey back his last year $ .9 m (if it is not used to add in for a splash like Dez or Cobb).
Draft: Jalen Strong #16 if Parker gone and a backup OT later rounds
or: Draft the perfect slot WR Tre McBride in third round to go with Hopkins.
And trade down to late first select LT/RT/C Cameron Erving to backup OT and replace Myers in 2016 and pick up another 2nd round. Maybe my last mock is looking pretty good?"
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
AJ is NOT a FA and if traded or cut, would not qualify for compensation.
michaelm
vox nihili
I read that Cobb's camp thinks his value is more like $12mil per.
I'd be happy if they could get him around $9mil, but I don't see it happening (this would be more of a Madden signing than reality, IMO).
Cobb is the perfect slot receiver and that would really set this offense up nicely.
Troy Chapman
Rookie
I did look, and couldn't find anything to validate your statement that Houston had a 2nd round offer from Philly for Andre Johnson. That's why I asked. But instead of answering you just come back telling me to find it on my own. If I am going to post something I will have the information to back it up or state that it is my opinion.
I'll leave it at that since we're off track from the intent of the thread.
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Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Bud Adams was hated for not allowing hillbillies to cook food over an open flame back in the 70's? I find that hard to believe. I need proof.
I also doubt that Adams ever held a press conference stating that he refused to field a winning team. Again, proof.
...this is my best Icak impersonation for pointless arguments. How am I doing?....
He lost me for good when he convinced the officials to cancel the preseason game during his bid for a new stadium. But he had been on super thin ice after firing Bum.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I think I'd prefer a slot/returner from draft like McBride. I'd not be surprised to see Jalen Strong in round 1 and McBride round 3.
Possible round two: NT Carl Davis, FS Prewitt, CB Jalenn Collins.
I'd be ecstatic. I'd also look for a trade into third like last draft when they got #83 for a 4th and 5th. Supposedly we have a comp to keep in fifth not losing much.
Possible round three on a trade up: CB Shaw, TE Jesse James, RB David Cobb, OLB/ILB McKinney, WR Hardy, and RT Ogbuehi.
Jalen Strong WR2, NT Davis or Collins, Slot/r McBride and RB Cobb top four.
I'm not talking about a pay cut. He'd still get his money. It's about manipulating the cap.
First, you have to agree to what Andre's value is... it is not zero. Then you have to figure out how long he wants to play. Then you have to structure the contract in a way that is favorable for both Andre & the Texans.
It can be done. It has been done before.
....Ladd Herzog...mooning a wedding party... :wadepalm:
Troy Chapman
Rookie
I think Houston wanted a pay reduction, not to extend the contract to keep the money total money the same.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Now that everybody seems to have written off AJ as a Texan, I'd like to pose a simple thought.
AJ and the Texans have a different opinion of AJ's current value. Giving AJ permission to seek offers means they are CONFIDENT in their evaluation and if accurate, AJ will find this out by failing to get the offers he is expecting.
Now if the feelings aren't too badly hurt, you can come back to the table with a better idea of what his value actually is. Then you can determine how much AJ is worth to the TEXANS over and above his dead money compared to what else is available.
KEEP in mind, that FA and the draft happen prior to the June 1 deadline, so there is no reason to cut AJ prior to that. So this is trade only speculation at this time.
Now consider a possibility of a player swap like Hali Ngata (not my favorite player) with a similar contract. It would be easier to replace AJ with a Devonte Parker, Amari Cooper or Kevin White in the draft than find a NT of that caliber to pair up with JJ.
But in the end, I hope the breakup talk is premature and just a typical part of the opening gambit of renegotiation strategy.
AJ and the Texans have a different opinion of AJ's current value. Giving AJ permission to seek offers means they are CONFIDENT in their evaluation and if accurate, AJ will find this out by failing to get the offers he is expecting.
Now if the feelings aren't too badly hurt, you can come back to the table with a better idea of what his value actually is. Then you can determine how much AJ is worth to the TEXANS over and above his dead money compared to what else is available.
KEEP in mind, that FA and the draft happen prior to the June 1 deadline, so there is no reason to cut AJ prior to that. So this is trade only speculation at this time.
Now consider a possibility of a player swap like Hali Ngata (not my favorite player) with a similar contract. It would be easier to replace AJ with a Devonte Parker, Amari Cooper or Kevin White in the draft than find a NT of that caliber to pair up with JJ.
But in the end, I hope the breakup talk is premature and just a typical part of the opening gambit of renegotiation strategy.
Don't know what you're on, mangoes or kumquats or whatever, but telling AJ he is free to seek a trade is telling him he isn't wanted at his current contract #'s. If he finds anyone willing to trade for him at all, he's gone. If not, he's gone unless he's willing to take a drastic pay cut to stay here. Why would he do that when he can take a pay cut with a team poised to win a ring like seattle, indy or the Ravens even?
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I'm not on anything. I do have many years of experience as a negotiator. AJ is currently UNDER CONTRACT. He was given permission to find a trading partner, but not released from his contract. Therefore, he remains a TEXAN. Any trade would have to be acceptable to the TEXANS. After he has discovered what he can put together, he may reconsider his position or the Texans will have to consider their options.
I'm not saying it won't work out as you suspect eventually, but there is much negotiation and discovery to do before we get there.
It's not over yet!
Texian
Hall of Fame
Are you familiar with the term "Search Engine". IE: Google?
"Second, what would it cost to pry Johnson away from the Texans? Multiple picks? Potentially as high as a first-rounder? I doubt Houston would be looking to get back anything less than a second, and frankly, their front office has the leverage. The Texans are a bad team whether Johnson holds out or not."
http://www.csnphilly.com/blog/700-level/should-eagles-make-play-wr-andre-johnson
"In Yates first proposal, he has the 49ers trading for Houston receiver Andre Johnson. He has the 49ers sending the Texans second- and fifth-round picks to the Texans for Johnson. "
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/122871/would-andre-johnson-trade-to-49ers-work
As for your accusations of me using HINDSIGHT:
03/14/2014 -"Graham is just a guy and according to PFF ranks close to the bottom of all TE's in 2013. Graham's new salary replaces 80% of what Daniels salary would've been. That's for the next 3 years. I'm not sure Graham is 80% the player. I'd would've preferred if the Texans had kept Daniels for another year, drafting ASJ or Amaro and then reaping the full amount of salary cap space of Daniel's salary with his departure in 2015. " http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2312059&postcount=51
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2336750&postcount=92
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2340063&postcount=200
Troy Chapman
Rookie
Read those articles already, just someone guessing at what the trade value would be. Your initial post about the 2nd rounder (in my opinion) made it sound it it was reported that a 2nd was offered. What you have provided is just someone thinking what could be the value. Kind of what I figured.
Sorry that I hurt your feelings on my crazy accusations. I still disagree with your assessment.
Sorry that I hurt your feelings on my crazy accusations. I still disagree with your assessment.
I don't think the texans have any leverage.