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Let's talk trade!

badboy

badboy

Hall of Fame
I still think Shelton, White or Parker will be available #16 but most of you & others say no. I think I would give Dallas #27 a call & work a deal. They should want (without knowing what FA movement will be) to improve defense with either a CB or a DT. http://www.chatsports.com/dallas-co...Cowboys-Biggest-Draft-Need-in-2015-2-10594529

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-draft-order-top-three-needs-for-all-32-teams

Trae Waynes if there at # 16 (1000 points) could bring us the Cowboy's 1.27 (680) + 2.60 (300) + 5.155 (29.4) = 1009.4 and we could toss in round 7 (8.2) or 1008.2.

Others available #16 but not #27 DTs Goldman & Malcomb Brown.
 
I like trading down. When you look at players mocked into the 3rd round at this point, there are some guys who'll make real contributions.
 
I wouldn't wanna give up grabbing Shelton or Parker for a 2nd. I know the 5th is there, but unless the idea is to use that for further dealing I'm not letting it sway me.

I feel either one of those guys could be an impact player on their side of the ball by no later than midseason. Those two are gone though, and it's a different story.
 
Mollywhopper said:
I wouldn't wanna give up grabbing Shelton or Parker for a 2nd. I know the 5th is there, but unless the idea is to use that for further dealing I'm not letting it sway me.

I feel either one of those guys could be an impact player on their side of the ball by no later than midseason. Those two are gone though, and it's a different story.
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For Parker I wouldn't trade down.

For Shelton I would trade down as long as Malcolm Brown was there with a later pick. I think those 2 are comparable talents along with Jordan Phillips.
 
Mollywhopper said:
I wouldn't wanna give up grabbing Shelton or Parker for a 2nd. I know the 5th is there, but unless the idea is to use that for further dealing I'm not letting it sway me.

I feel either one of those guys could be an impact player on their side of the ball by no later than midseason. Those two are gone though, and it's a different story.
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As my original post said, I think one of Shelton, Parker or White will be there but as many don't...then comes the trade down option I discussed.
 
badboy said:
As my original post said, I think one of Shelton, Parker or White will be there but as many don't...then comes the trade down option I discussed.
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This is a good yr to trade down.

Players at 16 and 30 are comparable. Waynes = Peters
 
badboy said:
As my original post said, I think one of Shelton, Parker or White will be there but as many don't...then comes the trade down option I discussed.
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With them gone I'd likely pull the trigger. I like Thompson, Peat, McKinney next. But 27 & 60 may help our holes more than any one of those guys. All of a sudden that 5th looks cherry too.

Any one of Cam Erving, Jaelen Strong, PJ Williams, Malcom Brown, Ereck Flowers at 27 + the 60 = alright.
 
steelbtexan said:
This is a good yr to trade down.

Players at 16 and 30 are comparable. Waynes = Peters
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What are the positional strengths of this draft? And how deep is it? I've always liked the trade back concept and building around young cheap talent , but our track record in the 2nd and 3rd round has been embarrassing. If we dont start nailing those picks we've got to compensate in so many other areas. Time to get our head out of the sand regardless of trades.
 
steelbtexan said:
This is a good yr to trade down.
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Don't we say that ..... every year ?!


I wouldn't mind trading back , kinda depends upon who's on the board at the time and how much I think that particular player can help the team Vs. those players I might net in return.

At 16 you very often find yourself faced with taking the best player at one of those non-glamour positions like inside linebacker or safety since teams in front of you have taken multiple players at "premium positions" like LT , QB and pass rushers as well as those "freak athletes".
 
Corrosion said:
Don't we say that ..... every year ?!


I wouldn't mind trading back , kinda depends upon who's on the board at the time and how much I think that particular player can help the team Vs. those players I might net in return.

At 16 you very often find yourself faced with taking the best player at one of those non-glamour positions like inside linebacker or safety since teams in front of you have taken multiple players at "premium positions" like LT , QB and pass rushers as well as those "freak athletes".
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We do. But very good picks can be had at 16. Isn't that about where we got Cushing and could have had Matthews? We traded down from about there to get Brown.

And to trade down you have to have a partner, and why would they do it? This is a fairly deep draft in a few positions like last year. Don't think there will be many trades.
 
Corrosion said:
Don't we say that ..... every year ?!


I wouldn't mind trading back , kinda depends upon who's on the board at the time and how much I think that particular player can help the team Vs. those players I might net in return.

At 16 you very often find yourself faced with taking the best player at one of those non-glamour positions like inside linebacker or safety since teams in front of you have taken multiple players at "premium positions" like LT , QB and pass rushers as well as those "freak athletes".
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Exactly across the board.
 
JB said:
And to trade down you have to have a partner, and why would they do it?
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That's always the most difficult thing to speculate. Some teams don't plan on trading up until a player they covet inexplicably drops. From the Dallas perspective, they may consider moving up for a RB if they can't re-sign Murray. Or the Lions may feel the need to move up for a DT if they lose Suh. Every year someone makes a move up, but guessing whom is almost impossible.
 
powda said:
What are the positional strengths of this draft? And how deep is it? I've always liked the trade back concept and building around young cheap talent , but our track record in the 2nd and 3rd round has been embarrassing.
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I think WR, OT, and RB have depth through the first 3 rounds. Thin at LB and QB. You make a good point about missing in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Maybe it's better to make the easier pick in the 1st and not trying to be cute? This is a must hit draft, or this team could find its way back to drafting next to the Raiders and Jags.
 
Lucky said:
I think WR, OT, and RB have depth through the first 3 rounds. Thin at LB and QB. You make a good point about missing in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Maybe it's better to make the easier pick in the 1st and not trying to be cute? This is a must hit draft, or this team could find its way back to drafting next to the Raiders and Jags.
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I totally agree with this.
 
Lucky said:
I think WR, OT, and RB have depth through the first 3 rounds. Thin at LB and QB. You make a good point about missing in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Maybe it's better to make the easier pick in the 1st and not trying to be cute? This is a must hit draft, or this team could find its way back to drafting next to the Raiders and Jags.
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DL is also pretty deep. I would add TE as a weakness.
 
The whole idea in theory is to tab the best player available. If you feel unable to perform this function or simply need more quality players then you trade down.
 
powda said:
What are the positional strengths of this draft? And how deep is it?
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Edge rushers, RBs, WRs, DTs are deepest.

I see this draft as a 2nd/3rd round draft, where guys taken in the 3rd will contribute for a lot of teams. So, imo, not a top-heavy, first round, draft.
 
beerlover said:
OT's
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I only see three OT's worth 1st round picks. There are so e pretty good second tier guys but not a lot. IMO this is the deepest WR pool I can remember. There seems to be several above average RB's. It sucks for QB's, TE's, ILB.
 
There is also something to not putting all eggs in one basket. Conundrum is the lower one is selected, the lower the chance of making roster. I will risk that. In the trade I mention with Dallas, we should get starter with #27 and possible starter in 2nd round with good back up in 5th.
 
mussop said:
I only see three OT's worth 1st round picks. There are so e pretty good second tier guys but not a lot. IMO this is the deepest WR pool I can remember. There seems to be several above average RB's. It sucks for QB's, TE's, ILB.
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you see.

last year, was last year yes but, Robinson, Matthews, Lewan went in the first 11 picks. Martin was a four starting LT for Notre Dame went 16th to cowboys (as OG) still, James Ja'Wuan the OT from Tennsesse went to Miami #19. Moving to second round Bitonio, Kouandjio, Mewhort & Britt all went that's another four so lets just round of to 8 in the first two rounds. pretty solid class right?

flash forward to 2015- per Bah
OT
1. Andrus Peat – LT, Stanford* 1st
2. La’el Collins – RT, LSU 1st
3. Ronnie Stanley – OT, Notre Dame* 1st
4. T.J. Clemmings – OT, Pittsburgh 1st-2nd
5. Ereck Flowers – RT, Miami* 1st-2nd
6. Ty Sambrailo – RT, Colorado St 2nd
7. Jake Fisher – LT, Oregon 2nd
8. Jeremiah Poutasi – RT, Utah* 2nd-3rd

We have another magic 8 or so it would seem a relative strength of class especially given the attrition of starting tackles this year in the NFL. I would venture a guess that five go in first not four (omission on bah007's part I do not know) Brandon Scheriff, Iowa ala Martin last year picked #16 & kicked to OG is a pretty obvious choice for Texans this year #16 if available. Last year was the best WR class I've ever seen so this class is down in comparison.
Point is timing is everything not so much dependent of depth of class as timing best prospect each level available. Sure would make it easier if passed on Xavier & taken Jordan Matthews but oh well, make the OL killer I'm sure none will complain except for opposing defenses.
 
beerlover said:
you see.

last year, was last year yes but, Robinson, Matthews, Lewan went in the first 11 picks. Martin was a four starting LT for Notre Dame went 16th to cowboys (as OG) still, James Ja'Wuan the OT from Tennsesse went to Miami #19. Moving to second round Bitonio, Kouandjio, Mewhort & Britt all went that's another four so lets just round of to 8 in the first two rounds. pretty solid class right?

flash forward to 2015- per Bah
OT
1. Andrus Peat – LT, Stanford* 1st
2. La’el Collins – RT, LSU 1st
3. Ronnie Stanley – OT, Notre Dame* 1st
4. T.J. Clemmings – OT, Pittsburgh 1st-2nd
5. Ereck Flowers – RT, Miami* 1st-2nd
6. Ty Sambrailo – RT, Colorado St 2nd
7. Jake Fisher – LT, Oregon 2nd
8. Jeremiah Poutasi – RT, Utah* 2nd-3rd

We have another magic 8 or so it would seem a relative strength of class especially given the attrition of starting tackles this year in the NFL. I would venture a guess that five go in first not four (omission on bah007's part I do not know) Brandon Scheriff, Iowa ala Martin last year picked #16 & kicked to OG is a pretty obvious choice for Texans this year #16 if available. Last year was the best WR class I've ever seen so this class is down in comparison.
Point is timing is everything not so much dependent of depth of class as timing best prospect each level available. Sure would make it easier if passed on Xavier & taken Jordan Matthews but oh well, make the OL killer I'm sure none will complain except for opposing defenses.
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Agreed, good post.
 
beerlover said:
you see.

last year, was last year yes but, Robinson, Matthews, Lewan went in the first 11 picks. Martin was a four starting LT for Notre Dame went 16th to cowboys (as OG) still, James Ja'Wuan the OT from Tennsesse went to Miami #19. Moving to second round Bitonio, Kouandjio, Mewhort & Britt all went that's another four so lets just round of to 8 in the first two rounds. pretty solid class right?

flash forward to 2015- per Bah
OT
1. Andrus Peat – LT, Stanford* 1st
2. La’el Collins – RT, LSU 1st
3. Ronnie Stanley – OT, Notre Dame* 1st
4. T.J. Clemmings – OT, Pittsburgh 1st-2nd
5. Ereck Flowers – RT, Miami* 1st-2nd
6. Ty Sambrailo – RT, Colorado St 2nd
7. Jake Fisher – LT, Oregon 2nd
8. Jeremiah Poutasi – RT, Utah* 2nd-3rd

We have another magic 8 or so it would seem a relative strength of class especially given the attrition of starting tackles this year in the NFL. I would venture a guess that five go in first not four (omission on bah007's part I do not know) Brandon Scheriff, Iowa ala Martin last year picked #16 & kicked to OG is a pretty obvious choice for Texans this year #16 if available. Last year was the best WR class I've ever seen so this class is down in comparison.
Point is timing is everything not so much dependent of depth of class as timing best prospect each level available. Sure would make it easier if passed on Xavier & taken Jordan Matthews but oh well, make the OL killer I'm sure none will complain except for opposing defenses.
Click to expand...

Good post. I'd add Cameron Erving-OT/C to that list of OT's as I think he's a late 1st-mid 2nd round prospect and his flexibility at 2 different positions will make him even more valuable.

As for the original trade down idea, of course it's dependent on who's still available when we pick, but I'm not opposed to trading down. What could we realistically get if we only traded down to the 20-22 range? Every year I wish we had more 2nd round picks as that seems to be where the real value of any draft is at.
 
beerlover said:
you see.

last year, was last year yes but, Robinson, Matthews, Lewan went in the first 11 picks. Martin was a four starting LT for Notre Dame went 16th to cowboys (as OG) still, James Ja'Wuan the OT from Tennsesse went to Miami #19. Moving to second round Bitonio, Kouandjio, Mewhort & Britt all went that's another four so lets just round of to 8 in the first two rounds. pretty solid class right?

flash forward to 2015- per Bah
OT
1. Andrus Peat – LT, Stanford* 1st This guy is so inconsistent I don't see him as a 1st.
2. La’el Collins – RT, LSU 1st agree
3. Ronnie Stanley – OT, Notre Dame* 1st not in this draft
4. T.J. Clemmings – OT, Pittsburgh 1st-2nd agree
5. Ereck Flowers – RT, Miami* 1st-2nd He is my other first
6. Ty Sambrailo – RT, Colorado St 2nd over rated. 3rd at best
7. Jake Fisher – LT, Oregon 2nd Or 3rd
8. Jeremiah Poutasi – RT, Utah* 2nd-3rd haven't watched any film on him
We have another magic 8 or so it would seem a relative strength of class especially given the attrition of starting tackles this year in the NFL. I would venture a guess that five go in first not four (omission on bah007's part I do not know) Brandon Scheriff, Iowa ala Martin last year picked #16 & kicked to OG is a pretty obvious choice for Texans this year #16 if available. Last year was the best WR class I've ever seen so this class is down in comparison.
Point is timing is everything not so much dependent of depth of class as timing best prospect each level available. Sure would make it easier if passed on Xavier & taken Jordan Matthews but oh well, make the OL killer I'm sure none will complain except for opposing defenses.
Click to expand...

I absolutely believe Brandon Scheriff will go in the first but as a G.

I agree with Wolf Cameron Erving-OT/C should be on this list but in the second. I also feel like the C from Oregon could go as high as the second round.

So you see I stand by my original post that I only see 3 first round OT's.


beerlover said:
Last year was the best WR class I've ever seen so this class is down in comparison.
Click to expand...

Were you saying that last year or now after seeing their success? This year might not be as good at the top spots but it is way deeper.
 
mussop said:
So you see I stand by my original post that I only see 3 first round OT's.
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If your point is that you see 3, I get that. But, how many do you think the NFL sees? Zierlein has 5 going in the 1st in his NFL.com mock. And that doesn't include Ereck Flowers, who I also think will be a 1st round pick. And there are another 6 that will likely carry 2nd day grades. Are there a lot of pro bowlers in this group? Probably not. Maybe none. But, there are plenty of guys in this draft that can become NFL starters. Even some guys that will be found on day 3. That speaks to a deep class of OTs, which is what I think beerlover is referring to.
 
mussop said:
I absolutely believe Brandon Scheriff will go in the first but as a G.

I agree with Wolf Cameron Erving-OT/C should be on this list but in the second. I also feel like the C from Oregon could go as high as the second round.

So you see I stand by my original post that I only see 3 first round OT's.

Were you saying that last year or now after seeing their success? This year might not be as good at the top spots but it is way deeper.
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yes, overall depth is as good this draft as last years draft for OT's which is why I would include OT position as one of 2015 strengths. Not trying to nit pick 3 or 5 whatever in first, just making case historically teams see plus value addressing OL early. The more interchangeable the better. Don't get hung up on proverbial "franchise LT's". The guy myself & others wanted Texans to draft instead of Clowney was Greg Robinson, who played LT Auburn, kicked inside early for St. Louis then moved back to LT when Long went down. Strong as a bull, athletic, hard working will improve & get better each year. Really like Brandon Scherff who I believe could beat Newton day one @ RT. If not compete for either guard spot (can't remember if Brooks is suffering from injury end of season or not) but Xavier could be Texan starting RG, Scherff LG & that's like worst case. Also remember Texans really don't have a suitable swing tackle, no depth whatsoever behind Brown or Newton clearly a big hole he could fill.
 
beerlover said:
yes, overall depth is as good this draft as last years draft for OT's which is why I would include OT position as one of 2015 strengths. Not trying to nit pick 3 or 5 whatever in first, just making case historically teams see plus value addressing OL early. The more interchangeable the better. Don't get hung up on proverbial "franchise LT's". The guy myself & others wanted Texans to draft instead of Clowney was Greg Robinson, who played LT Auburn, kicked inside early for St. Louis then moved back to LT when Long went down. Strong as a bull, athletic, hard working will improve & get better each year. Really like Brandon Scherff who I believe could beat Newton day one @ RT. If not compete for either guard spot (can't remember if Brooks is suffering from injury end of season or not) but Xavier could be Texan starting RG, Scherff LG & that's like worst case. Also remember Texans really don't have a suitable swing tackle, no depth whatsoever behind Brown or Newton clearly a big hole he could fill.
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I'm not arguing any of this. I totally agree with everything you said. My point is there's not a lot of top tier guys in this draft. Lucky hit it on the head. There aren't many pro bowlers in this draft but there are a lot of startińg caliber OTs. That's was all I was trying to say.
 
beerlover said:
yes, overall depth is as good this draft as last years draft for OT's which is why I would include OT position as one of 2015 strengths. Not trying to nit pick 3 or 5 whatever in first, just making case historically teams see plus value addressing OL early. The more interchangeable the better. Don't get hung up on proverbial "franchise LT's". The guy myself & others wanted Texans to draft instead of Clowney was Greg Robinson, who played LT Auburn, kicked inside early for St. Louis then moved back to LT when Long went down. Strong as a bull, athletic, hard working will improve & get better each year. Really like Brandon Scherff who I believe could beat Newton day one @ RT. If not compete for either guard spot (can't remember if Brooks is suffering from injury end of season or not) but Xavier could be Texan starting RG, Scherff LG & that's like worst case. Also remember Texans really don't have a suitable swing tackle, no depth whatsoever behind Brown or Newton clearly a big hole he could fill.
Click to expand...

I was one of those people who had Gregg Robinson rated 1a to Clowney 1b. I if you search my history I said Robinson is a future pro bowler. I still believe that.

I'm a big Collins (LSU) guy. I have him right there with Shelton and Parker in the first. I have said even if Parker was available I would go Collins because I see him as an instant starter at RT that could eventually take over for Brown. I have been saying all off season that if brown gets hurt we are screwed. That's the same reason. I wanted Robinson first last year. We'll that and his unbelievable talent.

Collins, Flowers and Clemmons are the top guys that have LT starting potential IMO. All will take more developing. Clemons needs the most developing.
 
mussop said:
I was one of those people who had Gregg Robinson rated 1a to Clowney 1b. I if you search my history I said Robinson is a future pro bowler. I still believe that.

I'm a big Collins (LSU) guy. I have him right there with Shelton and Parker in the first. I have said even if Parker was available I would go Collins because I see him as an instant starter at RT that could eventually take over for Brown. I have been saying all off season that if brown gets hurt we are screwed. That's the same reason. I wanted Robinson first last year. We'll that and his unbelievable talent.

Collins, Flowers and Clemmons are the top guys that have LT starting potential IMO. All will take more developing. Clemons needs the most developing.
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We're on the same page I was only responding to powda question & playoffs response that OT is deep class as well (not restricted just to 1st rd.) :)
 
Thanks for the feedback to all on my earlier questions about the draft. I could've done a simple search to find some expert opinion , but over the years ive come to respect the draft opinions here. We're fortunate to have some of the posters we have here. You guys are awesome and I simply haven't had the time for college ball to form my own opinions.

I wonder, if this draft is a disaster are we blaming smith or gaine?
 
badboy said:
I still think Shelton, White or Parker will be available #16 but most of you & others say no. I think I would give Dallas #27 a call & work a deal. They should want (without knowing what FA movement will be) to improve defense with either a CB or a DT. http://www.chatsports.com/dallas-co...Cowboys-Biggest-Draft-Need-in-2015-2-10594529

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-draft-order-top-three-needs-for-all-32-teams

Trae Waynes if there at # 16 (1000 points) could bring us the Cowboy's 1.27 (680) + 2.60 (300) + 5.155 (29.4) = 1009.4 and we could toss in round 7 (8.2) or 1008.2.

Others available #16 but not #27 DTs Goldman & Malcomb Brown.
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Tre Waynes' 40 times of 4.31 and 4.35 should increase Dallas willingness to trade up.
 
badboy said:
Tre Waynes' 40 times of 4.31 and 4.35 should increase Dallas willingness to trade up.
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I'm thinking that if we want Waynes, we'll have to do the trading up. I think Parker, White, Shelton, and Waynes will all go in the top 12. I hope that I'm wrong and that someone good is still available when #16 comes up.
 
Wolf6151 said:
I'm thinking that if we want Waynes, we'll have to do the trading up. I think Parker, White, Shelton, and Waynes will all go in the top 12. I hope that I'm wrong and that someone good is still available when #16 comes up.
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Parker or white is the only player I would trade up for. Shelton I would consider but just don't know how much better he is than a couple other NTs that we could get without having to give up valuable picks.

In fact unless one of them fall or we don't resign Newton, I would trade down as far in the first round as I could. There isn't much difference in talent from around 8 to 32 IMO. The. There is a pretty steep drop off around the mid sixties. JMO.

Maybe Seattle would want to trade up for Gurley since their RBs future is in doubt. Hell maybe they will trade up if Collins falls to since earl Thomas just had surgery and their other safety is a FA.
 
PapaL said:
He was my steal in 2nd but he's been creeping up the boards more and more.
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I can see that he will creep up boards. He's got that all-in, intense attitude that you want in an offensive lineman and is a leader. He was one of the only guys that would get into Winston and calm him down. He was also the guy Winston would go to during tough times, trying to get Erving fired up, because Erving's energy was clearly infectious.
 
I still like Fisher but he can only play OT and OG; Erving can play + center. Some are knocking his play at LT but it was his first season there and I look for him to sit a year behind what we have now (barring injury).
 
Wonder what would it take to get this guy...


hi-res-7600148_crop_north.jpg
 
TK I did not follow Ryan Nassib much at Syracuse but IIRC Beerlover did and may have some feedback. As he is now Manning's backup I don't know why they would let him go. I am locked into Mallett.
 
Should the Texans trade up for one of the top WRs in the draft? I like Hopkins. But, is he really a #1 WR? I'm not a big fan of trading up, and the price Buffalo paid last year to move up to get Watkins was too high. However, I could get behind dealing a 2nd round pick to get Cooper or White. They both have the look of 100+ 1400 yard receivers. And our QBs are going to need a lot of help.
 
Lucky said:
Should the Texans trade up for one of the top WRs in the draft? I like Hopkins. But, is he really a #1 WR? I'm not a big fan of trading up, and the price Buffalo paid last year to move up to get Watkins was too high. However, I could get behind dealing a 2nd round pick to get Cooper or White. They both have the look of 100+ 1400 yard receivers. And our QBs are going to need a lot of help.
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Dude.

Damaris Johnson.

Hello?
 
Lucky said:
Should the Texans trade up for one of the top WRs in the draft? I like Hopkins. But, is he really a #1 WR? I'm not a big fan of trading up, and the price Buffalo paid last year to move up to get Watkins was too high. However, I could get behind dealing a 2nd round pick to get Cooper or White. They both have the look of 100+ 1400 yard receivers. And our QBs are going to need a lot of help.
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I think Parker or Strong should be available to us at 16 and not much separation between the 4. Also see us picking up a slot like Dorsett later
 
Lucky said:
Should the Texans trade up for one of the top WRs in the draft? I like Hopkins. But, is he really a #1 WR? I'm not a big fan of trading up, and the price Buffalo paid last year to move up to get Watkins was too high. However, I could get behind dealing a 2nd round pick to get Cooper or White. They both have the look of 100+ 1400 yard receivers. And our QBs are going to need a lot of help.
Click to expand...

I think Hopkins is best suited to #2 and I'd really rather get a #1 and let him get his rookie year in now rather than waiting.
 
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