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Russell Wilson

Playoffs

Playoffs

Hall of Fame
Time for Russell Wilson to have his own thread...

...and for the Seahawks to start paying:

Agent's Take: What Russell Wilson's blockbuster deal will look like
By Joel Corry | Former Sports Agent
...
Objectively, the data suggests that a contract averaging in the $24 million per year neighborhood with $65 million in guarantees and slightly over $73 million in the first three new years is appropriate for Wilson. Seattle has preferred four-year deals or extensions in recent years. Cliff Avril, Bennett, Kam Chancellor, Lynch, Sherman, Thomas, Max Unger and K.J. Wright signed for this length of time. A five- or six-year extension may be in order for Wilson to mirror the length of most lucrative quarterback deals.

Thomas and Sherman's structure suggests that Wilson should receive a $20 million to $25 million signing bonus. Wilson earned the fourth year "proven performance" escalator for third- through seventh-round picks under the 2011 Collective Bargaining Agreement's rookie wage scale. His 2015 salary increases to the lowest restricted free agent tender since he hit the 35 percent offensive playtime mark in two of his first three seasons. If the 2015 salary cap is $142 million, the lowest restricted free agent tender will be $1.528 million. Wilson's 2015 base salary will likely equal whatever the final number is because that would be consistent with their deals.

The effect on Seattle's salary cap

Schneider acknowledged Jan. 28 at Super Bowl media day that a new Wilson pact would present roster challenges the team hasn't faced before with Wilson under his rookie contract. Wilson's 2015 cap number shouldn't be more than $6.75 million with the new deal. The bigger impact will begin taking place in 2016 when Wilson starts having large cap numbers...
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I know the jury is still on out Wilson, and he's got a great defense and running game, but I'm coming to the opinion that if he's not "elite", he's right below it. Personally, I think when it's all said and done - and Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers retire - Wilson will be on the short list of active QBs considered "elite".

Yeah, the game manager tag gets thrown around, but all QBs are game managers. Wilson has game beyond that, though, both cerebral, athletic, and that clutch thing that the great ones possess.

Dude is currently 10-0 against QBs who have won Super Bowls. Yeah, he's on a great team, but if he did not rise to the same level, they'd be held back by their QB instead of him being a big part of their on-going success.
 
Double Barrel said:
I know the jury is still on out Wilson, and he's got a great defense and running game, but I'm coming to the opinion that if he's not "elite", he's right below it. Personally, I think when it's all said and done - and Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers retire - Wilson will be on the short list of active QBs considered "elite".

Yeah, the game manager tag gets thrown around, but all QBs are game managers. Wilson has game beyond that, though, both cerebral, athletic, and that clutch thing that the great ones possess.

Dude is currently 10-0 against QBs who have won Super Bowls. Yeah, he's on a great team, but if he did not rise to the same level, they'd be held back by their QB instead of him being a big part of their on-going success.
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Especially if they win this Super Bowl, I'm on board with the elite tag. He does it in a slightly different way, but the man makes plays when the game is on the line, he approaches the game from a mental standpoint that is paralleled by few, and despite the "running QB" tag, he does it in a way that emphasizes the passing game first. The only thing not elite about him is his height.

And he might be my favorite QB to watch, irrespective of team.
 
Double Barrel said:
I know the jury is still on out Wilson, and he's got a great defense and running game, but I'm coming to the opinion that if he's not "elite", he's right below it. Personally, I think when it's all said and done - and Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers retire - Wilson will be on the short list of active QBs considered "elite".

Yeah, the game manager tag gets thrown around, but all QBs are game managers. Wilson has game beyond that, though, both cerebral, athletic, and that clutch thing that the great ones possess.

Dude is currently 10-0 against QBs who have won Super Bowls. Yeah, he's on a great team, but if he did not rise to the same level, they'd be held back by their QB instead of him being a big part of their on-going success.
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eriadoc said:
Especially if they win this Super Bowl, I'm on board with the elite tag. He does it in a slightly different way, but the man makes plays when the game is on the line, he approaches the game from a mental standpoint that is paralleled by few, and despite the "running QB" tag, he does it in a way that emphasizes the passing game first. The only thing not elite about him is his height.
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What they said.
 
eriadoc said:
Especially if they win this Super Bowl, I'm on board with the elite tag. He does it in a slightly different way, but the man makes plays when the game is on the line, he approaches the game from a mental standpoint that is paralleled by few, and despite the "running QB" tag, he does it in a way that emphasizes the passing game first. The only thing not elite about him is his height.

And he might be my favorite QB to watch, irrespective of team.
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I agree, man. And he seems like a really good guy, both as a representative of the league and just in general. Every interview I see with him he comes across as honest, smart, and humble.

He's a "running QB" like Roger Staubach was a running QB. He possesses the athletic ability and understanding of the game to take those opportunities when presented, but he does it when required and then quickly gets himself out of bounds before the big hits. But, more often than not, he scrambles receivers open like Staubach used to do. He'll run 30 yards behind the LOS to get a receiver open, then nail the pass.

And the last game vs. the Packers, in spite of his worst performance, he never quit. His team never quit. They believed in him, even when their chances of winning were at 0.01%. That says a lot about the guy as a leader, and when a dude can inspire the rest of the team to achieve great things, there is an intangible quality involved that is immeasurable.
 
Double Barrel said:
I agree, man. And he seems like a really good guy, both as a representative of the league and just in general. Every interview I see with him he comes across as honest, smart, and humble.

He's a "running QB" like Roger Staubach was a running QB. He possesses the athletic ability and understanding of the game to take those opportunities when presented, but he does it when required and then quickly gets himself out of bounds before the big hits. But, more often than not, he scrambles receivers open like Staubach used to do. He'll run 30 yards behind the LOS to get a receiver open, then nail the pass.

And the last game vs. the Packers, in spite of his worst performance, he never quit. His team never quit. They believed in him, even when their chances of winning were at 0.01%. That says a lot about the guy as a leader, and when a dude can inspire the rest of the team to achieve great things, there is an intangible quality involved that is immeasurable.
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Someday (crossing fingers and toes), we'll have a QB like that on the Texans
 
JB said:
Someday (crossing fingers and toes), we'll have a QB like that on the Texans
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I hope so, man. This city has never had a QB with those qualities. Almost had one with Steve McNair, but we know how that worked out.

I know the Texans have needs, like most teams, but it really feels like they are a good QB away from being contenders right now. Damn I wish football season wasn't another 7 months away...
 
JB said:
Someday (crossing fingers and toes), we'll have a QB like that on the Texans
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Double Barrel said:
I hope so, man. This city has never had a QB with those qualities. Almost had one with Steve McNair, but we know how that worked out.

I know the Texans have needs, like most teams, but it really feels like they are a good QB away from being contenders right now. Damn I wish football season wasn't another 7 months away...
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According to some, the Texans wouldn't have won any more games with Wilson instead of Fitzy.
 
infantrycak said:
According to some, the Texans wouldn't have won any more games with Wilson instead of Fitzy.
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Sure he would have. I sense your sarcasm, but it's an interesting "what if."

IMO, Wilson beats/wins the Cowboys game and the Steelers game.

And maybe even the Colts home game.
 
Double Barrel said:
...in spite of his worst performance, he never quit. His team never quit. They believed in him, even when their chances of winning were at 0.01%. ...there is an intangible quality involved that is immeasurable.
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Russell Wilson's visualization game is off the charts. We've all as kids played the, "If he makes this pass/kick/catch he's champion of the world" game. He practices it daily. He projects winning onto himself, visualizes specific plays/responses/how he'll win the play. Wilson told Bevell he was going to check the play and throw that TD to Kearse vs. GB. Has a great forgetter -- 4 INTs -- and good habits.

The power of intention. :jogger:
 
infantrycak said:
According to some, the Texans wouldn't have won any more games with Wilson instead of Fitzy.
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I have no doubt that this Texans team would be regularly competing in the AFC Championship game with Wilson at QB. Definitely would be a yearly playoff team, and probably consistent AFC central division champ. No doubt that this Texans team with Wilson is better than Luck's Colts.

And it doesn't really matter what the naysayers have to say about it. I try to think from the perspective of history and actual analysis of what players have done, not biased projections or emotional opinions.
 
Double Barrel said:
I have no doubt that this Texans team would be regularly competing in the AFC Championship game with Wilson at QB. Definitely would be a yearly playoff team, and probably consistent AFC central division champ. No doubt that this Texans team with Wilson is better than Luck's Colts.

And it doesn't really matter what the naysayers have to say about it. I try to think from the perspective of history and actual analysis of what players have done, not biased projections or emotional opinions.
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Unfortunately for us, the same could be said if we'd had any of a number of different healthy qb's
 
gary said:
And Wilson does not have elite receivers either.
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That's a great point. Critics like to point out the Seattle defense, and Lynch. But Wilson has never had a true #1 WR. I don't think he has what would be described as a legit #2 WR, now. And the Seahawks running attack, with Lynch, was average at best before Wilson showed up. Russell Wilson is the straw that stirs the drink in Seattle.

I underestimated Wilson coming out of college. Not because of his production. That was there. Not because of his skills. They were evident. It was because of his size. I didn't think a 5'10" QB could make it in the NFL. I'll never make that assumption again.
 
Playoffs said:
Time for Russell Wilson to have his own thread...

...and for the Seahawks to start paying:

Agent's Take: What Russell Wilson's blockbuster deal will look like
By Joel Corry | Former Sports Agent
...
Objectively, the data suggests that a contract averaging in the $24 million per year neighborhood with $65 million in guarantees and slightly over $73 million in the first three new years is appropriate for Wilson.
Click to expand...
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I love Russell Wilson, but I think it would be a mistake to sign him to such a deal.... paying $73 Million in the first three years. Way too much. Even for a Super Bowl winning QB. You're talking something like $20M cap hits in his first three years.

Like I said, love Wilson, respect his game & I believe he's a franchise QB. But Pete Carrol has to find a way to convince Wilson to take less.

If he won't, he's got to be willing to let him go.

I know Pete Carroll remembers what it was like before Wilson, I'm sure he doesn't want to go back there, but they've already won a Super Bowl, if they win another, odds are against them winning a third with Wilson. It could happen... but I wouldn't do it.

I know the way the NFL is & I know they'll more than likely sign him to a contract very similar to what is posted in that article. I'm just saying I wouldn't. I'd be willing to let him go for that kind of money. Possibly even trade him if I could.
 
thunderkyss said:
I love Russell Wilson, but I think it would be a mistake to sign him to such a deal.... paying $73 Million in the first three years. Way too much. Even for a Super Bowl winning QB. You're talking something like $20M cap hits in his first three years.

Like I said, love Wilson, respect his game & I believe he's a franchise QB. But Pete Carrol has to find a way to convince Wilson to take less.

If he won't, he's got to be willing to let him go.

I know Pete Carroll remembers what it was like before Wilson, I'm sure he doesn't want to go back there, but they've already won a Super Bowl, if they win another, odds are against them winning a third with Wilson. It could happen... but I wouldn't do it.

I know the way the NFL is & I know they'll more than likely sign him to a contract very similar to what is posted in that article. I'm just saying I wouldn't. I'd be willing to let him go for that kind of money. Possibly even trade him if I could.
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This would be number four for Brady.
 
How much should the Seahawks pay the QB that led the team to their first, ever championship and second straight Super Bowl?
 
JB said:
$75-90m
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Absolutely... I have no problem with the total amount, just don't like the way he's talking about paying it out. $73M in the first three years. I'd give him a $60M signing bonus tomorrow, on a six year deal. Make it difficult & unlikely that I would cut him over the next six years. There would be some salary & incentives in there where he could earn $10~$16M a year.
 
thunderkyss said:
Absolutely... I have no problem with the total amount, just don't like the way he's talking about paying it out. $73M in the first three years. I'd give him a $60M signing bonus tomorrow, on a six year deal. Make it difficult & unlikely that I would cut him over the next six years. There would be some salary & incentives in there where he could earn $10~$16M a year.
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$73 mil in the 1st 3 years isn't as outlandish as you make it, actually it's less than what you are talking about. Paid out =/= cap hit. Paid out in the 1st 3 years is every dime that hits his bank account and so includes the entire signing bonus. So:

Initial proposal: $25 mil signing bonus and $16 mil per year for 3 years = $73 mil.

Your proposal: $60 mil signing bonus and $10 mil per year for 3 years = $90 mil.
 
infantrycak said:
$73 mil in the 1st 3 years isn't as outlandish as you make it, actually it's less than what you are talking about. Paid out =/= cap hit. Paid out in the 1st 3 years is every dime that hits his bank account and so includes the entire signing bonus. So:

Initial proposal: $25 mil signing bonus and $16 mil per year for 3 years = $73 mil.

Your proposal: $60 mil signing bonus and $10 mil per year for 3 years = $90 mil.
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When I say he could earn $10~$16M per year, I'm including the prorated portion of the signing bonus. So If I sign him with a $60M signing bonus, that becomes $10M/year on a 6 year deal. Salary would probably be $1M, escalating to $3 or $5 mil by year six, plus incentives.

The way I look at it, your $25M signing bonus is $4M/yr, then the $16M/yr.. you're starting at $20M/yr cap hit to pay out $73M in the first three years.

My idea is to pay him real money up front... $60M signing bonus, low yearly salary. Makes it less likely that he'll be a cap casualty if he ruins his knees in the future.

Again, I know it's not likely to happen, my way is less money after three years ($63M vs $73M), but I'm also giving him $60M up front, most likely more guaranteed money.
 
thunderkyss said:
When I say he could earn $10~$16M per year, I'm including the prorated portion of the signing bonus.
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Not happening. You're completely out of touch with the QB market. Alex Smith is carrying a $17 mil average. Let that sink in.

So If I sign him with a $60M signing bonus, that becomes $10M/year on a 6 year deal. Salary would probably be $1M, escalating to $3 or $5 mil by year six, plus incentives.

The way I look at it, your $25M signing bonus is $4M/yr, then the $16M/yr.. you're starting at $20M/yr cap hit to pay out $73M in the first three years.
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Again, you don't prorate to determine paid out.

My idea is to pay him real money up front... $60M signing bonus, low yearly salary. Makes it less likely that he'll be a cap casualty if he ruins his knees in the future.

Again, I know it's not likely to happen, my way is less money after three years ($63M vs $73M), but I'm also giving him $60M up front, most likely more guaranteed money.
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To what benefit to the team? That's totally the opposite of the way NFL teams have gone which is to damper the increasing signing bonuses and guarantee more in salary, often not fully guaranteed.

If he ruins his knees he's going to be a cap casualty no matter what.
 
The Dolphins interviewed Bret Bielema for their head-coaching job in 2012.

The reason talks between Bielema and the Dolphins broke off? Russell Wilson.

Bielema, who was then Wisconsin's head coach, says he insisted the Dolphins draft Wilson, his former Badgers signal-caller, and told the team's brass they would need to take him in the second round. That's when the Dolphins threw up their hands and said thanks but no thanks, moving on to hire Joe Philbin.

"One hundred percent," Bielema said. "They all looked at me like, 'You can't say that. That's the difference between college and pro. He's undersized. He can't throw.' I was like, 'OK, all right,' and I honestly, that day, kind of pulled myself out of it."
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-2012-talks-with-dolphins-over-russell-wilson
 
"One hundred percent," Bielema said. "They all looked at me like, 'You can't say that. That's the difference between college and pro. He's undersized. He can't throw.' I was like, 'OK, all right,'
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Let's be clear, a lot of teams would have had the same reaction. Even Wilson's first school, NC State, pushed him out for 6'7" Mike Glennon. Wilson has changed the perception of what a NFL QB should look like for many. But not everyone. He still has doubters and probably always will.
 
Lucky said:
Let's be clear, a lot of teams would have had the same reaction. Even Wilson's first school, NC State, pushed him out for 6'7" Mike Glennon. Wilson has changed the perception of what a NFL QB should look like for many. But not everyone. He still has doubters and probably always will.
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Like Tom Brady, Wilson's doubters will continue to fuel his competitive fire.

Wake me up when these genius "doubters" can put a tape measure on heart. Because that's what they continue to underestimate.
 
Lucky said:
That's a great point. Critics like to point out the Seattle defense, and Lynch. But Wilson has never had a true #1 WR. I don't think he has what would be described as a legit #2 WR, now. And the Seahawks running attack, with Lynch, was average at best before Wilson showed up. Russell Wilson is the straw that stirs the drink in Seattle.

I underestimated Wilson coming out of college. Not because of his production. That was there. Not because of his skills. They were evident. It was because of his size. I didn't think a 5'10" QB could make it in the NFL. I'll never make that assumption again.
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This is the way it goes when discussing quarterbacks. Every draft class usually ends up with one or two franchise quarterbacks when evaluated after some time has passed. However, identifying the franchise guys beforehand is the trick. Any single college quarterback can be dissected and one or two negatives hammered again and again until they seem insurmountable, while a long list of positives are minimized.

Since the odds are against the QBs, it is safest to claim "this guy isn't the one". However, if the evaluation process always ends up with a determination that there are no good quarterbacks in a draft, the process is broken. The team will never find their franchise quarterback, because it is impossible for their process to identify one (except possibly through luck on a late rounder who has much larger odds stacked against him).

While teams can make it to the playoffs with mediocre quarterbacks, consistent Super Bowl contenders usually have a franchise guy. So if a team wants to be a real contender, at some point they have to take the risk and find a quarterback.
 
kingtexan said:
He is over-rated. Give the money to Lynch and the D.
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You can go far with a great defense and run game on offense. The Seahawks likely would have won back-to-back Super Bowls if they had a healthy defense. Their "Legion of Boom" secondary was banged up against the Patriots. Or if they merely handed Lynch the ball at the end with the game on the line. They put the game in Russell Wilson's hand and it backfired with that game-losing interception. So they felt the need to go out and get him Jimmy Graham so he could have that insurance over the middle of the field.
 
austins23 said:
He doesn't have a Gronk or a Jimmy Graham either.
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Now he does. LOL.

But going back to the Seahawks lack of receiving options last year, I admit I couldn't name one wide receiver on their roster. That was until the Super Bowl. A couple of their guys really stepped up and dominated at times.

Chris Matthews had 4 receptions for 109 yards, 1 TD (27.2 YPC).
Ricardo Lockette had 3 receptions for 59 yards (19.7 YPC).

That's not exactly bad. That's pretty good actually. He got great wide receiver play in the Super Bowl. Several big plays to say the least. But with the game on the line, at the one yard line no less, he failed to throw a perfect strike into the end zone over the middle of the field. It was a bad play call I admit but still...
 
Are Russell Wilson, Seahawks '10s of millions' apart?
The contract for Seattle Seahawks quarterback Russell Wilson will eventually get done. Not many young players who have been to a pair of Super Bowls are allowed to walk after the conclusion of their rookie deal.

But according to ESPN 710's Danny O'Neil, neither side is close to agreeing on a rumored extension worth $120 million with half of the money guaranteed.

They are apparently "10s of millions" apart.

"In fact, the Seahawks haven't put $100 million on the table right now," O'Neil said, citing various league sources familiar with negotiations. "The offer of a four-year extension is believed to be worth closer to $80 million."

Basically, Seattle wants to pay Wilson like a better Andy Dalton or Colin Kaepernick, which makes a ton of sense.

They do not want his numbers to creep into the neighborhood of say Aaron Rodgers or Ben Roethlisberger.

Like we've said in the past, there is a number that Wilson is likely to accept, but he just hasn't done it yet. There's also probably a number the Seahawks are willing to go to, but they just haven't.

The problem with this deal is that it's rather unprecedented. Wilson made the Super Bowl twice in his first three seasons and won once. He has more wins than any other quarterback in his first three seasons.

So is that the product of a heady quarterback, or a solid quarterback who has benefited from an excellent team around him? Remember, Seattle has had tons of flexibility because of Wilson's third-round pick salary.

All these questions need to be answered before training camp, unless the Seahawks want to risk letting this become more of a story than it already is.
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Pay the man. Dude is a winner.

Yeah, he plays on a great team, but what other Super Bowl champion is not a great team? Wilson has been clutch, and that is far more important than stats.
 
I can't see paying Wilson more than the 4 year/$80 mil mentioned in the article. Wilson is good, but not elite. He was 15th in the NFL in passing yards and 16th in passing TD's last season. Derek Carr and Ryan Tannehill threw more TD passes last season than Wilson did. Seattle's defense and Marshawn Lynch are the first things I think of when I think of the Seahawks.
 
texan279 said:
I can't see paying Wilson more than the 4 year/$80 mil mentioned in the article. Wilson is good, but not elite. He was 15th in the NFL in passing yards and 16th in passing TD's last season. Derek Carr and Ryan Tannehill threw more TD passes last season than Wilson did. Seattle's defense and Marshawn Lynch are the first things I think of when I think of the Seahawks.
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I disagree. We've got a great RB and defense, how far has it got us?
 
JB said:
I disagree. We've got a great RB and defense, how far has it got us?
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yep. I think those that under-value Wilson do not watch him play very much.

If Joe Flacco can be a $100 million dollar man, I do not get how Russell Wilson is not worth the same.

He needs to hold out for his worth. I have no doubt that many teams would drop that kind of money on him in a heartbeat.
 
JB said:
I disagree. We've got a great RB and defense, how far has it got us?
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Seattle's defense was #1 in the NFL in yards allowed per game last season. Houston ranked 16th, and the difference in yards per game allowed was 80 yards per game. Seattle was ranked #1 in passing defense last season, Houston ranked #21. Houston's defense should not even be included in the same conversation as Seattle's defense, apples and oranges. Besides Watt, there is nothing "great" about our defense.
 
texan279 said:
I can't see paying Wilson more than the 4 year/$80 mil mentioned in the article. Wilson is good, but not elite. He was 15th in the NFL in passing yards and 16th in passing TD's last season. Derek Carr and Ryan Tannehill threw more TD passes last season than Wilson did. Seattle's defense and Marshawn Lynch are the first things I think of when I think of the Seahawks.
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1. Derek Carr
2. Ryan Tannehill
3. Russell Wilson

That's the way you see it?
 
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