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Veteran
I highly doubt greenbay or new england are going to volunteer, and I don't think playoff teams can be forced to do it
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Hard knocks baby!!!
- Thread starter wolf123
- Start date
I highly doubt greenbay or new england are going to volunteer, and I don't think playoff teams can be forced to do it
yeah, and that's why I was wondering what the NFL would do if a team assigned to this show said "no" to it all.
Fine 'em? McNair's got deep pockets. Maybe lose a draft pick?
McNair aint giving up a dime.
LOL, that you think this could be possible. Billionaires don't get that way doing things like this.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
They don't get there by being cheapskates who never take risks and don't care about winning either but that doesn't stop your storyline.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
The idea of "compelling" a team to do this was voted on and approved by the owners, so with Al Davis gone, the idea of any of them straight up saying no is likely pretty remote.
Essentially, it came about when they had to use the Bengals for a second time in 2013 because they (whoever "they" are) couldn't get anyone else to agree to do it.
There are three categories of exemption:
- Any team that has made the playoffs in the previous two seasons (So if we're forced this season, we can blame it on Cleveland)
- Any team with a first year head coach
- Any team appearing on Hard Knocks in the previous 10 seasons
what everyone wants but only one knows how to get
Malloy
Hall of Fame
They could name it The Cleveland Sho... wait a minute... ?
TejasTom
All Pro
We already lose a draft pick or two or three with this GM. Usually a third and fourth rounder.
markn
All Pro
As others have mentioned it looks like the two biggest attractions are JJ Watt and Manziel. Based on the viewing habits of the US television audience I think train-wreck wins over professionalism.
For that reason I predict it will be Cleveland.
On a selfish level, I'd like to see us featured, but I doubt it's good for the team.
For that reason I predict it will be Cleveland.
On a selfish level, I'd like to see us featured, but I doubt it's good for the team.
McNair can spend money when he wants to. He fired a head coach with a year left on his contract, so it's not like the bottom line is the only factor in his decisions (I know, contrary to your oft-stated assumptions).
I could see McNair being on board with the show. It's another great marketing opportunity.
I just don't see O'Brien being on board with it. It is too disruptive to football operations and has the potential of revealing things that he does not want to be revealed.
I side with the head coach. Football first.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
And I think the evidence is McNair does too. He has both opposed and favored the Texans being on Hard Knocks in the past. Good guess would be based on what the coach thought.
Yep, I agree. Which is why I asked the initial question with regards to how far would McNair go to honor his head coach's thoughts on it.
I personally think McNair always wants what is best for his franchise, first in terms of football operations and then in terms of positive media. Contrary to the bitterman perspective, I do not think profit is what drives him. He is already wealthy beyond imagination, and almost all teams make a profit regardless of seasonal outcome.
michaelm
vox nihili
Honest question. Do we really know how disruptive it is to football operations? I mean, that's the overriding sentiment, but how pervasive is it, overall?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I think one thing fans don't understand is a lot of the stuff they think is for increased profits don't having anything or very little to do with increased profits. For example, jersey sales. With a few exceptions, most things are pooled in the NFL. The individual stadium ticket sales and concessions are not but the Texans have sold out every game.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Don't buy it. That's something we actually have control over. Beer sales go down 25% and you'll see the price come down.
Unless I can watch Bavarian gnomes massaging the hops, I'm not buying an $8 beer.
Kubiak was fired because there was no way McNair could sell a 2-14 HC to the fanbase. Along with Kubiak directly defying McNair's order to play Keenum the rest of the season. (Bad for business)
Smith having 2 yrs on his contract and the 4-6 mil buyout of BOB's Penial St. contract probably has a lot to do with why Smith got retained as GM. Not that I blame McNair I would have done the same thing if I were in his shoes. Nrg is going to be sold out regardless of the Texans record. So the McNair's did the right thing business wise and basically pocketed the cash they would've had to spend on a new GM. (Good for business) I mean that would be the only reason they would keep a GM as incompetent as Smith?
I also agree with whatever direction BOB wants to go. It should be his choice. Will it be?
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
OB being a dick to the media because that is what Belichick does. Hard Knocks usually makes soft-spoken coaches look incompetent, so I guess it would make OB look good in comparison to Mike Smith or the Dolphins coach.
Arian being a dick to the media because of the whole love child thing
Don't see it happening, since the only draw for HBO will be Watt.
Arian being a dick to the media because of the whole love child thing
Don't see it happening, since the only draw for HBO will be Watt.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Someone needs a continuity checker.
Hiring OB is proof all your cheap talk is wrong. There were plenty of candidates who were free to hire and McNair paid millions to get the one he liked best.
I figure there has to be a general idea behind a majority of teams wanting to avoid this circus. The logical explanation is that it could be disruptive to have film crews all over the place, and then the added burden of having to explain what happens on the show weeks after events happened in real life.
Plus, I'd think some coaches just want a driving focus on nothing but football during that crucial pre-season period.
Just my guess, though, mainly based on so many teams seemingly trying to avoid it.
No doubt about it. The NFL has historically done a fantastic job of revenue sharing and making sure that all teams are competing on a somewhat even economic playing field.
Forbes reports that McNair is worth $2.4 Billion, so all the assumptions about his alleged greed is nothing more than uneducated tripe with origins in envy and desire to hate the guy at the top. It tends to be a sort of class warfare spite of pointing at and blaming the rich guy.
Keeping Rick Smith is what's best for the football operations side of the org? We will have to disagree, Profit is what drives most billionaires, maybe McNair is different. But I don't see anything that provides evidence to the contrary.
The continuity of me talking about how incompetent Rick Smith is? If the McNair's aren't being frugal then they are the most incompetent owners when it comes to the on the field product imaginable. (Cleveland/Tampa bad)
BTW, it's possible to like the guy (McNair) hate the way he goes about running his business.
No envy what so ever, just want the best people possible running the football operations side of things.
McCarragan (SP?) is a holdover from the Casserly era. That could explain the abysmal draft history of the Texans. Yet he will still have a job next yr if Casserly can bamboozile Woody into hiring him for the Jets GM job. Woody is an idiot so there is hope.
McCarragan (SP?) is a holdover from the Casserly era. That could explain the abysmal draft history of the Texans. Yet he will still have a job next yr if Casserly can bamboozile Woody into hiring him for the Jets GM job. Woody is an idiot so there is hope.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
The continuity of the two quotes right before the continuity comment. It's not that hard.
Yeah because anyone who disagrees with you is incompetent.
Playing that card. LOL
My opinion is just as valid as yours. Only difference is one side has 12 yrs of evidence on its side.
Tell me how those quotes lacked continuity?
Why such a small list of teams, why are the patriots not on the list, they have never been on the show. How did they get out of it?
I would like for the patriots to be on it for the sole reason of bill belichick, he would absolutely hate cameras on his field. Even though he is used to watching other teams practice
I would like for the patriots to be on it for the sole reason of bill belichick, he would absolutely hate cameras on his field. Even though he is used to watching other teams practice
markn
All Pro
Teams that have made the playoffs in the last two years, teams with new coaches, and teams that have been on Hard Knocks within the last decade are exempt.
Because God'ell can tell you how Kraft's a** tastes.
MistaRed
Rookie
The patriots are always in the playoffs so they can't be forced to do it.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
I saw one instance all season where OB was a dick to media -- and it was to a Texas Monthly guy with pointy shoes and greased-back hair who kept prodding him with the same dumb questions who was in to write a hatchet piece.
Not that it won't happen, it surely will, but I watched every single presser since his hire and he was fine. He makes fun of them. Had a few times where he raised his voice -- like when Tania asked about a silver lining to a loss -- but those were regarding "failure is unacceptable" responses.
What ticks the media off is OB holds close things that fall into competitive advantage as he defines it. But way more times than not, O'Brien was standing at the podium waiting for the next questions and the media didn't have any. He's like, "Really? Okay." And then he goes on with his 10-14 hour work day. Steph was not around much for the pressers due to other obligations, but the other locals just aren't very prepared week-in/week-out to write out-of-the-box, off-schedule pieces.
Belichick is crusty with media, but he did do "A Football Life" which let us see a lot of the who and how. Hard Knocks will get us eventually. Hopefully next year after we've had two offseason cycles to fully structure and fine tune the process.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
What card? You like ascribing evil intentions or incompetence to anyone on the team you disagree with or want gone. It's never good enough for you to just say they did something poorly or you'd prefer someone else. It's they don't want to win, they're cheap, etc.
They speak for themselves.
What's worse is your contradiction is in pursuit of the same stupid demonization. Can't give McNair credit for getting rid of Kubiak because it was best for the team - have to sell that as "he had to" or he'd lose the fan base. Then turn around and paint keeping Smith as another cheap move he can get away with because he can't lose the fan base. It's absurd.
And that has nothing to do with the individuals involved. Other folks manage to talk about owners, coaches, players without demonizing everyone they would like to see gone.
Since we truly do not know the scope of Smith's duties, we cannot really have an educated opinion on the reason(s) why McNair continues to employ him.
There is much speculation that Smith is not a traditional GM (i.e. a conduit between the owner and head coach). Even O'Brien said that him and Smith are equals in the organizational structure. That is not a traditional power structure.
I honestly think that Charlie Casserly turned McNair off to a powerful GM that controls everything with his franchise. After the Casserly experience, I think McNair was looking for a GM that would operate more like a corporate board room, something McNair is comfortable and familiar with based on his history as a businessman.
Even Smith admitted to coaches having a lot of power when they fired Kubiak. It is easy to put all the blame on one man, but Smith is not the one coaching the players and calling the plays. Heck, he might not even be the one picking the players.
Dude makes a profit regardless of what happens on the field. They could go 0-16 for two seasons and still make a profit.
Do you want to know what would make him even MORE profit? Winning a championship.
Kinda' weird how it works out that way, yeah?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Not sure how that keeps getting overlooked.
One team every year. The only one that does it consistently is Belichek
Vinnie
with an I E
I have, or at least I've cut way back. I'm down to buying the two Bud Lights for $5 before walking in, and then maybe one of the $8 cans if that. I hate Bud Light but Miller doesn't have that deal. I used to buy at least two or three cans in the stadium when it was around $6.50 which wasn't all that long ago.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
It has always been a good idea to leave a bit early and eat on the way to the stadium instead of at the stadium. It is true from HS to the NFL. But Peewee concessions are usually reasonable.
As for drinking? Just don't be the sucker that's born every minute.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
The Power structure is not unusual in business. There is an operations hierarchy and staff positions. I suspect Rick Smith is simply in a Staff Position with the Texans rather than the operations hierarchy.
I'd ask the question differently:
Has appearance on this show been demonstrated to be, in any way, beneficial to a team's win column? If not, if I'm head coach, I don't have time for it.
michaelm
vox nihili
I agree with that, and it's relevant as long as a franchise has a choice in the matter, but that might not be the case this year.
Yeah, time's are changing. The old school structure was owner > GM > HC.
These days, we are seeing variations, from the above mentioned structure, to ones where head coaches are acting as GMs, to some teams with more of a board room setup.
I was curious so did a little Googling, and found an interesting article with some details on how the Texans are set up with O'Brien:
Browns, Texans among five teams with new power structures
Something from the article that I did not know: "Likewise, offseason coaching hires Bill O'Brien (Texans) and Lovie Smith (Buccaneers) inherited ultimate authority over the 53-man roster."
I did not realize that O'Brien was granted that much power.
More on the Texans from that article:
Based on the above, blaming Rick Smith for everything is not just a little myopic, but also basically misinformed.
Always has been but this board doesn't let facts or truth get in the way...
Same as the old McNair is cheap argument
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I don't see a single person whining. Some don't like the idea.
I would say most don't like the idea. And I can't recall a single team that had a decent season after being on hard knocks
TexansFight
Veteran
You add nothing to this board.. You are a bully and need to be stripped of moderator title
moderators can't have opinions too?
He points out the fallacy of many posts, don't make him a bully
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I hope we get it. The Texans have won two playoff games in their existence. Earned number 1 overall twice. As a fan I want something else to get excited about. Ted Johnson made an interesting point which was that cameras are there all the time and when hard knocks came last season (even though the attention wasn't on us per se) it was just a few more cameras.
I know that would be magnified if it was us on the show. On field, film room, off field stuff...
But I don't care. If hard knocks distracts them to keep them from reaching their full potential then we probably aren't real good anyways.
As a fan, I want to see it.
I know that would be magnified if it was us on the show. On field, film room, off field stuff...
But I don't care. If hard knocks distracts them to keep them from reaching their full potential then we probably aren't real good anyways.
As a fan, I want to see it.