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Trevone Boykin

He should definitely go back to school and hopefully he knows that. He's having a great year but he is nothing close to a NFL QB prospect right now.

IMO, the only ways he is similar to Wilson are that he is black and he is athletic.
 
He should definitely go back to school and hopefully he knows that. He's having a great year but he is nothing close to a NFL QB prospect right now.

IMO, the only ways he is similar to Wilson are that he is black and he is athletic.

Your opinion differs with that of Gil Brandt.
 
Fine by me.

I respect his opinions but I disagree with him a lot these days. There was a time when Brandt was the best. IMO, the game has passed him by.

I think he's only gotten better. There are still many who seek out his advice.
 
I think he's only gotten better. There are still many who seek out his advice.

Fair enough. Just because people still seek him out doesn't mean he is always right though.

We can agree to disagree here. I have nothing but respect for Brandt. But I don't agree with him here.
 
I like Boykin

Think he would be better served returning to school but he's been making big strides this year
 
Define reason to leave school early? Does he already have degree? Is he concerned that he would jeopardize his future pro career because of injury? He needs the money to support his family or is it because he is NFL ready now?

I agree w/JB & bah he Would be more prepared & polished if he stayed another year. Could be right about where Mariota was last year this time, & how's that working for him? If it's one of the other reasons listed above then I could certainly understand decision.
 
Define reason to leave school early? Does he already have degree? Is he concerned that he would jeopardize his future pro career because of injury? He needs the money to support his family or is it because he is NFL ready now?

I agree w/JB & bah he Would be more prepared & polished if he stayed another year. Could be right about where Mariota was last year this time, & how's that working for him? If it's one of the other reasons listed above then I could certainly understand decision.

Who's running TCU now? Is it the same group that produced Dalton? If so, I can see the value of returning another season & further development of his craft. If it's a different bunch all together that will continue to benefit off his athleticism... I don't think he's going to learn any more than he knows now.

Not saying that I think he should come out early, I just don't see further development value from what I've seen of his highlights & what little bit I saw of today's game.

He also looked like he had smallish hands.
 
Who's running TCU now? Is it the same group that produced Dalton? If so, I can see the value of returning another season & further development of his craft. If it's a different bunch all together that will continue to benefit off his athleticism... I don't think he's going to learn any more than he knows now.

Not saying that I think he should come out early, I just don't see further development value from what I've seen of his highlights & what little bit I saw of today's game.

He also looked like he had smallish hands.

Dalton's OC/QB coach is the HC at Memphis now.

Boykin is basically playing in a version of the Mike Leach offense with some added wrinkles to take advantage of his athleticism, so he is not going to improve mentally as a pro prospect by returning. But I think the game experience would benefit him.

I also think that he is very far from a slam dunk as a NFL QB prospect so I would like to see him return so he can have another great year playing in college.
 
Who's running TCU now? Is it the same group that produced Dalton? If so, I can see the value of returning another season & further development of his craft. If it's a different bunch all together that will continue to benefit off his athleticism... I don't think he's going to learn any more than he knows now.

Not saying that I think he should come out early, I just don't see further development value from what I've seen of his highlights & what little bit I saw of today's game.

He also looked like he had smallish hands.

TCU has new OC and some of the coaches
 
TCU has new OC and some of the coaches

TCU is more explosive offense since Dalton was there. Patterson still runs the D. FTR I too would like to see Boykin return and get his comp % up over 60%. I believe he will because next year TCU will be

L_L_O_O_O_A_A_A_D_D_D_E_E_E_D_D_D

and this year he's a likely Day 3 pick. With a BIG year next year he could be a Day 1 pick.
 
I respect his opinions but I disagree with him a lot these days. There was a time when Brandt was the best. IMO, the game has passed him by.

Yeah, Gil gets too close to prospects and becomes a bit of a cheerleader for some.

He had Manziel as the #1 prospect in the draft and Tom Savage as #41st best prospect and McCarron as 52nd. He spoke to Manziel several times a week.
 
Yeah, Gil gets too close to prospects and becomes a bit of a cheerleader for some.

He had Manziel as the #1 prospect in the draft and Tom Savage as #41st best prospect and McCarron as 52nd. He spoke to Manziel several times a week.

Weird. I heard him on radio trashing Manziel as not understanding the system and not making reads.
 
Give Gil a break... he's old

Yeah, he's forgotten more football than this board knows collectively. Everybody knows that a bunch of 20 & 30 somethings know a lot more than someone who has been doing it for over 50 years.
 
Yeah, he's forgotten more football than this board knows collectively. Everybody knows that a bunch of 20 & 30 somethings know a lot more than someone who has been doing it for over 50 years.

Thank you for taking up for me. :tiphat: :kitten:
 
If Boykin does return to school as I suspect, he will be my #1 QB going into the 2015 season.
 
Your opinion differs with that of Gil Brandt.

Well obviously even Gil Brandt isn't infallible seeing as he reported last night that Michigan offered Duke HC David Cutcliffe their head coaching position and he turned it down. That has since been refuted by Michigan, Duke, David Cutcliffe, and ESPN's Chris Mortensen.

He did get a lot of clicks though and the story got picked up and carried by pretty much everyone before being proven false so if that's what he was going for then well done.
 
Well obviously even Gil Brandt isn't infallible seeing as he reported last night that Michigan offered Duke HC David Cutcliffe their head coaching position and he turned it down. That has since been refuted by Michigan, Duke, David Cutcliffe, and ESPN's Chris Mortensen.

He did get a lot of clicks though and the story got picked up and carried by pretty much everyone before being proven false so if that's what he was going for then well done.

I don't think Gil just made it up.
 
Well obviously even Gil Brandt isn't infallible seeing as he reported last night that Michigan offered Duke HC David Cutcliffe their head coaching position and he turned it down. That has since been refuted by Michigan, Duke, David Cutcliffe, and ESPN's Chris Mortensen.
.

I take it to mean there's mutual interest.
 
TCU Football ‏@TCUFootball 5m5 minutes ago

Congrats to Paul Dawson and Trevone Boykin on being named to the 2014 @AP All-America Team!
 
TCU Football ‏@TCUFootball 5m5 minutes ago

Congrats to Paul Dawson and Trevone Boykin on being named to the 2014 @AP All-America Team!

Good for them! Thinking Boykin will have a big year next year
 
Boykin starts Peach Bowl playing extremely well. Has great command of the offense. Very Russell Wilsonesque.
 
I'm sorry Texian but I just don't see anything close to Russell Wilson. I mean, they're both black, below average height, and have excellent athleticism to go with a strong arm.

But play style is nowhere close to the same. Wilson is a surgeon who doesn't take risks with the ball. Boykin just throws it up for grabs. To his credit, his WRs usually go get it. But this is a guy who needs a ton of grooming.

He would be an absolute turnover machine in the NFL right now. Geno Smith with a better arm. You just can't get away with these types of throws. I'm really hoping he does stay in school another year. He obviously grew by leaps and bounds this offseason. If he does the same next year he could really be a solid prospect. The potential is obviously there.
 
I'm sorry Texian but I just don't see anything close to Russell Wilson. I mean, they're both black, below average height, and have excellent athleticism to go with a strong arm.

But play style is nowhere close to the same. Wilson is a surgeon who doesn't take risks with the ball. Boykin just throws it up for grabs. To his credit, his WRs usually go get it. But this is a guy who needs a ton of grooming.

He would be an absolute turnover machine in the NFL right now. Geno Smith with a better arm. You just can't get away with these types of throws. I'm really hoping he does stay in school another year. He obviously grew by leaps and bounds this offseason. If he does the same next year he could really be a solid prospect. The potential is obviously there.

We disagree. Boykin is an avg NFL size 6'2". Everyone thinks a QB must be 6'4"-6'5" but there are really 6'2" good and great ones. Boykin does remind me a lot of Wilson at NC St and Wisconsin. I think if you try tp compare Seahawk Wilson you lose some perspective. Come 2015 I believe the comparison will be a lot more evident. I even go out on a limb and say Boykin wins the Heisman and the 1st QB drafted in 2016. Boykin throws the jump ball because that's the way the play is designed. You can't blame him for that. For a Jump Ball he throws a pretty damn good one.
 
We disagree. Boykin is an avg NFL size 6'2". Everyone thinks a QB must be 6'4"-6'5" but there are really 6'2" good and great ones. Boykin does remind me a lot of Wilson at NC St and Wisconsin. I think if you try tp compare Seahawk Wilson you lose some perspective. Come 2015 I believe the comparison will be a lot more evident. I even go out on a limb and say Boykin wins the Heisman and the 1st QB drafted in 2016. Boykin throws the jump ball because that's the way the play is designed. You can't blame him for that. For a Jump Ball he throws a pretty damn good one.

He wasnt saying that a QB needs to be 6'4" to be good or great. He was jokingly saying that they only thing those 2 players have in common is being below average QB height and black.

Boykin reminds me more of Manziel than he does Wilson. One read. Rush when containment is broken, and if all else fails chuck it up to Mike Evans, I mean Josh Doctson.
 
Everyone thinks a QB must be 6'4"-6'5" but there are really 6'2" good and great ones.

No one thinks a QB "must be 6'4"-6'5" Everyone thinks it's a benefit to be 6'4"-6'5" it's a detriment to be less than 6'5"

The good NFL QBs who are less than 6'5" (& like you say, there are several) have to compensate one way or the other.
 
No one thinks a QB "must be 6'4"-6'5" Everyone thinks it's a benefit to be 6'4"-6'5" it's a detriment to be less than 6'5"

The good NFL QBs who are less than 6'5" (& like you say, there are several) have to compensate one way or the other.

Please tell me how Rogers, Montana, Bradshaw, Staubach, Starr, Unitas all compensated and exactly what was their detriment?
 
If Boykin does return to school as I suspect, he will be my #1 QB going into the 2015 season.

FTR - After watching TCU/Boykin last night I retract my statement of Boykin starting out as my #1 QB starting the college season. In fact after watching Boykin working strictly from the spread I did not see him make 1 NFL throw all evening. BOYKIN is an NFL project and therefore not part of my 2016 QB draft class. Russell Wilson he is not.

I now agree with bah007 on Boykin's evaluation.
 
I have a question for Texian, but essentially anyone else who wants to discuss can feel free to contribute.

Bill Connelly of Football Outsiders recently wrote an article called "VN: Fun with QB Radars." The goal of the exercise is to illustrate two things: what kind of player are you and how good are you at being that kind of player. As a rough draft version of the exercise, he compiled a radar graph for seven quarterbacks. You can read the entire article to get a better idea of the method (which I highly recommend!), but in short the more area occupied, the better a quarterback is.

Radar-Boykin.0.png

Radar-Goff.0.png

Radar-Hackenberg.0.png

Radar-Cook.0.png

Radar-Barrett.0.png

Radar-Dobbs.0.png


Credit to Bill Connelly and Football Outsiders for the above images.

I don't follow much college football, but I've been intrigued by Boykin for quite sometime now. Many of the scouts are saying that Boykin can't make it in the NFL, but the numbers seem to indicate otherwise. Compared to the other quarterbacks charted, Boykin seems to exceed them in nearly all categories. The only concern I see is the INT Avoidance isn't as high as I'd like, but I would assume that can be coached up.

So my question to Texian is how can someone be that efficient and still be considered a late round project? What are you seeing in the games that still doesn't make scouts trust him as anything more than a late round project?

You post solid analysis so that's why I'm asking for your input specifically. Not looking for arguments, just information. :) But again, anyone is free to contribute. It's an interesting exercise.
 
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That's geared specifically to dual threat college QBs. Tommy Frazier and Tim Tebow would probably blanket that thing.
 
That's geared specifically to dual threat college QBs. Tommy Frazier and Tim Tebow would probably blanket that thing.

It's acknowledged in the article that run frequency would mean many QBs would have one low category, but was still included since the idea is to plot what type of quarterback you are. Obviously Boykin will rush more so he'll have a higher run frequency, but it's essentially everything else that I'm interested in. It seems like he is actually more dangerous throwing the ball than running, perhaps even more than other established pocket passers. That's what I'm intrigued by.
 
I have a question for Texian, but essentially anyone else who wants to discuss can feel free to contribute.

Bill Connelly of Football Outsiders recently wrote an article called "VN: Fun with QB Radars." The goal of the exercise is to illustrate two things: what kind of player are you and how good are you at being that kind of player. As a rough draft version of the exercise, he compiled a radar graph for seven quarterbacks. You can read the entire article to get a better idea of the method (which I highly recommend!), but in short the more area occupied, the better a quarterback is.

Radar-Boykin.0.png

Radar-Goff.0.png

Radar-Hackenberg.0.png

Radar-Cook.0.png

Radar-Barrett.0.png

Radar-Dobbs.0.png


Credit to Bill Connelly and Football Outsiders for the above images.

I don't follow much college football, but I've been intrigued by Boykin for quite sometime now. Many of the scouts are saying that Boykin can't make it in the NFL, but the numbers seem to indicate otherwise. Compared to the other quarterbacks charted, Boykin seems to exceed them in nearly all categories. The only concern I see is the INT Avoidance isn't as high as I'd like, but I would assume that can be coached up.

So my question to Texian is how can someone be that efficient and still be considered a late round project? What are you seeing in the games that still doesn't make scouts trust him as anything more than a late round project?

You post solid analysis so that's why I'm asking for your input specifically. Not looking for arguments, just information. :) But again, anyone is free to contribute. It's an interesting exercise.
Beta I am afraid I am going to disappoint here. I don't think I am smart enough or nerdy enough to fully understand and grasp the full explanation of the Football Ousiders article. Even after reading it three times. My interpretation is the bigger the radar imprint the better overall QB. The author like me offers up some excuses why the radar imprint may be lacking. Therefore if there are exceptions for each radar imprint then it's not really an objective comparison. For instance, take Trevone Boykin, not every QB has a Josh Doctson to throw to, who is a big difference maker and game changer. What would Boykin's radar imprint be if he didn't have Doctson? Take Jared Goff and Sonny Dykes Air Raid offense where much of that particular passing game is really more of an extension of running game. In such a system with a high proportion of bubble screens and underneath crossing routes, the figures for completion percentage and yards after catch can be inflated when compared to a pocket passer like Connor Cook. Based on the parameters and all the variables I don't really find these radar graphs a good indicator for who is the best QB.

As for what am I seeing? Most of Boykin's passes are of the low risk, high degree of success type passes, bubble screens, quick out/slant, underneath crossing variety. These type of passes/offense is not a a main staple of the NFL passing game. The NFL will also take away his legs (where he also has success) and force him to stay in the pocket. That's what turned Michael Vick and Johnny Manziel in to your garden variety NFL QB. And finally, in the NFL he'll get 3 secs to throw a 10 plus yd pass not the 4-5 secs he's getting at TCU.
 
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TCU runs the Air Raid which is basically the offense that Hal Mumme and Mike Leach have made famous the past 15yrs or so. Their OC Doug Meechum was WR coach at Oklahoma St for years and after being passed over twice for the OC job he came to UH in 2013 and was OC here that year. He left right before the bowl game, because after moving to the Big XII the story was Gary Patterson knew they had to do something different on offense to compete with the schools in the conference.
 
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