Doppelganer Returns to DoppelMock: Version 2.0

[Doppelganger]

It's been about a month and its just right at that time for another Doppelmock! Break out your Holiday Doppelbocks and enjoy the Doppelmock!

1. Garrett Grayson, QB, Colorado State, 6’2, 220lbs, 4.70.
I think when its all said and done he gets into the first round. While Mariotta and Winston will surely be first rounders, there aren’t a lot of other names who could go there. Hundley is physically very talented but has been wildly inconsistent. Connor Cook is leaning towards going back to school and competing to be #1 in 2016. Dak Prescott has looked underwhelming against good solid defensive play. Mannion, Hogan, and Petty all have significant flaws. That leaves Grayson and Carden as two QBs who could sneak up into the mid to late first/early 2nd round. I like Grayson. He has completed 65% of his passes for 3,024 yards, 26 tds, and five ints. I have begun to go back to the 26-27-60 rules created by John Lopez. A QB with a Wunderlich of 26, started 27 games in college, and has completed at least 60% of his passes is worth drafting. While we don’t yet know his Wunderlich, he has more than 27 games started and has completed more than 60% of his pass attempts.

2. Dorial Green-Beckham, WR, Oklahoma, 6’6, 220lbs, 4.55
The Texans have struggled with second round picks. In the Rick Smith era, here are the selections: 2006: Demeco Ryans: success, 2007/2008: trade for Schaub, 2009: Connor Barwin: success, 2010: Ben Tate: fail, 2011: Brooks Reed: pick em, Brandon Harris: Fail, 2012: DeVier Posey: Fail, 2013: DJ Sweringer: Success. That is not a good rate of success. I say, swing for the fences. Go get a potential playmaker in DGB. Yes, he has some character issues, but a coach like bOB should be able to harness his ability. If you are going to miss, at least miss on a highly talented guy rather than some lesser talented choir boy.

3. Sean Hickey, OT, Syracuse, 6’5, 300lbs, 5.20
Hickey did a good job in the LT spot taking over for Justin Pugh when he graduated to the NFL. Pugh would be a great RT for the Texans. He has very good technique and is strong in his run blocking and pass protection fundamentals. His knock is his size and the questions in regards to whether he can play at the LT spot. That’s fine with me as I would love to grab him and have him compete for the RT spot. Newton seems to give up at least one hold or false start per game. Part of that is lack of discipline, fundamentals, and technique. Hickey could be an upgrade.

4. Henry Anderson, 3-4DE, Stanford, 6’6, 287lbs, 5.05
In my mind he would be an excellent compliment to the defensive line. Strong tough run defender with some pass rush ability. He has had some great games and some others where he has simply disappeared. As part of a rotation, I think he would help shore up the edge and provide some pass rush ability.

5. Terry Williams, NT, East Carolina, 6’1, 353lbs, 5.21.
I was watching East Carolina in order to scout Cardin and walked away even more impressed with Williams. A HUGE mammoth of a man who looked like he was steamrolling OLs. He was virtually unblockable in the big East Carolina upset of Virginia Tech. If you can go watch that film. Sure, he will have conditioning issues, but as part of a rotation with Nix and Pickett I think he could be great. Having him could make some really strong super tough DLs. For example, lets say its 4th and 1.5 and the offense decides to go for it. Crennel could send out a DL of Watt, Williams, Pickett, and Anderson. Best of luck getting 1.5 yards against that group!

6. Silverberry Mouhon, 3-4LB, Cincinnati, 6’4, 248lbs, 4.73
Gotta love the name. Can play in the middle or on the edge. Has good passrushing skills and is big enough to play inside if needed. Can always use LBs in the 3-4 system.

7. Derek Watt, FB, Wisconsin, 6’1, 231lbs, 4.66
I think that Jay Prosch is a fine FB. This move is not about Prosch, its about Watt, JJ, not Derek. I want JJ to feel happy in Htown, comfortable, and thrilled to be here. Sure he just signed his big contract, but I want him to be happy to be here for the remainder of his career. Bringing in his brother may help with that. Besides that, Little Watt could help out on special teams, a short yardage back, or possibly even outplay JP.

 

[infantrycak]

DeMeco was not during the Smith era.

I would not call Tate a failed pick.

 

[bah007]

We're on the same page on Grayson. I think he is similar to Bridgewater in the sense that he isn't the most physically talented QB in this class, but he is the one that I would feel most comfortable handing the keys to my offense.

There is no denying that DGB is a physical freak. I wouldn't cry about us taking him here, although his inability to stay out of trouble could be a potential headache.

I think Hickey is a great choice in the 3rd. He would instantly compete for the starting job at RT.

I'm not super high on Anderson. I certainly don't think he is a 4th round caliber player. But I do think that he will hold down a roster spot on any team that runs a 34 defense.

I was unfamiliar with Williams last month but I've been studying up on him and I really like what I see. He actually came to ECU as a MLB but just kept getting bigger. Personally, I'd flip him and Anderson. This guy can play.

No problem with this take in the 6th. I don't really think he can play in the middle in the pros. He's not a leverage player and his height will really hinder him in there. I think he will be a depth player as an edge rusher. Still like the pick, just don't think he's an ILB.

I understand what you're saying about the 7th rounder but I'm just not into that idea. Keep Watt here by building a winner, not bribing him with his family. I don't think Watt is a upgrade over Prosch or anywhere else on our roster. Personally, I'd look in another direction here.

 

[Doppelganger]

DeMeco was not during the Smith era.

I would not call Tate a failed pick.

You are correct. Demeco was the last pick of the Casserly era.

I would say Tate was a failed pick becuase he was injured too frequently. The only reason Foster got a chance was because of Tate's injuries. In the time he spent here, he had only one season where he was relatively injury free.

 

[Playoffs]

Is Grayson going to become a mid 1st rounder?

 

[Doppelganger]

We're on the same page on Grayson. I think he is similar to Bridgewater in the sense that he isn't the most physically talented QB in this class, but he is the one that I would feel most comfortable handing the keys to my offense.

There is no denying that DGB is a physical freak. I wouldn't cry about us taking him here, although his inability to stay out of trouble could be a potential headache.

I think Hickey is a great choice in the 3rd. He would instantly compete for the starting job at RT.

I'm not super high on Anderson. I certainly don't think he is a 4th round caliber player. But I do think that he will hold down a roster spot on any team that runs a 34 defense.

I was unfamiliar with Williams last month but I've been studying up on him and I really like what I see. He actually came to ECU as a MLB but just kept getting bigger. Personally, I'd flip him and Anderson. This guy can play.

No problem with this take in the 6th. I don't really think he can play in the middle in the pros. He's not a leverage player and his height will really hinder him in there. I think he will be a depth player as an edge rusher. Still like the pick, just don't think he's an ILB.

I understand what you're saying about the 7th rounder but I'm just not into that idea. Keep Watt here by building a winner, not bribing him with his family. I don't think Watt is a upgrade over Prosch or anywhere else on our roster. Personally, I'd look in another direction here.

1. Agreed on Grayson.

2. DGB has some issues, but from what I have been reading has been a near model citizen in his short time at Oklahoma.

3. Hickey seems like the guy who could really help clean up the fundamental and technique issues the OL seem to fall into.

4. I know some are not as high on Anderson. In my mind, if he can contribute, stick around on a roster, and at least be average, he is worth a 4th round selection.

5. Yeah, he ate is way into the NT slot!

6. I get that. I think he could certainly find a role on the team.

7. You are probably right. Probably not the best idea. But, who knows. If he has JJ's heart and a 10th of his ability, maybe there is a spot for a guy like this on the team.

 

[Doppelganger]

Is Grayson going to become a mid 1st rounder?

I am projecting Texans to finish with a 9-7 record. As such they likely will pick in the high teens low 20s. I am projecting Grayson to go somewhere around there, kinda like JFF did last year.

 

[thunderkyss]

It's been about a month and its just right at that time for another Doppelmock! Break out your Holiday Doppelbocks and enjoy the Doppelmock!

1. Garrett Grayson, QB, Colorado State, 6’2, 220lbs, 4.70.

I like what I've seen & heard of Grayson so far. I wouldn't have a problem with that at all.

 

[bah007]

Is Grayson going to become a mid 1st rounder?

In all honesty, probably not. But I would take him there no problem.

He doesn't have the physical tools that wow you. But his tools are good enough to check all the necessary boxes. The mental part of his game is what draws me to him.

I think he falls in the Flacco category. I wouldn't call Flacco elite, but he's good enough to win you a championship if you build a good team around him.

He won't be a top 8 QB in the league but he'd be solidly above the game manager types who will never win anything.

 

[Texian]

I like what I've seen & heard of Grayson so far. I wouldn't have a problem with that at all.

Apparently you didn't watch his bowl game.

 

[Scooter]

It's been about a month and its just right at that time for another Doppelmock! Break out your Holiday Doppelbocks and enjoy the Doppelmock!

7. Derek Watt, FB, Wisconsin, 6’1, 231lbs, 4.66
I think that Jay Prosch is a fine FB. This move is not about Prosch, its about Watt, JJ, not Derek. I want JJ to feel happy in Htown, comfortable, and thrilled to be here. Sure he just signed his big contract, but I want him to be happy to be here for the remainder of his career. Bringing in his brother may help with that. Besides that, Little Watt could help out on special teams, a short yardage back, or possibly even outplay JP.

i think that's a fantastic idea, though i'd obviously run it by JJ first. i've honestly been a bit disappointed in prosch. i'm not sure if that's his own doing or o'brien's, but i havent seen much to say that prosch can lead and open gaps that are worth running through. he's also been a non factor on special teams. little watt's measurements look more like a james casey type than vonte leach, would that be accurate? if so, i'd certainly give him a look - i'd love to have casey back (or a player like him) because you can never go wrong with a swiss army knife or few on the roster.

 

[thunderkyss]

i think that's a fantastic idea...

I wonder if he'd be open to switching sides..... LB, safety maybe. A project for sure, but there's just not a lot of use for FBs nowadays. "Smallish" ones at that.

 

[Scooter]

I wonder if he'd be open to switching sides..... LB, safety maybe. A project for sure, but there's just not a lot of use for FBs nowadays. "Smallish" ones at that.

definitely something to consider as well.

 

[infantrycak]

You are correct. Demeco was the last pick of the Casserly era.

I would say Tate was a failed pick becuase he was injured too frequently. The only reason Foster got a chance was because of Tate's injuries. In the time he spent here, he had only one season where he was relatively injury free.

I don't consider draft picks to be failures/unwise due to subsequent injuries.

 

[badboy]

It's been about a month and its just right at that time for another Doppelmock! Break out your Holiday Doppelbocks and enjoy the Doppelmock!

1. Garrett Grayson, QB, Colorado State, 6’2, 220lbs, 4.70.
I think when its all said and done he gets into the first round. While Mariotta and Winston will surely be first rounders, there aren’t a lot of other names who could go there. Hundley is physically very talented but has been wildly inconsistent. Connor Cook is leaning towards going back to school and competing to be #1 in 2016. Dak Prescott has looked underwhelming against good solid defensive play. Mannion, Hogan, and Petty all have significant flaws. That leaves Grayson and Carden as two QBs who could sneak up into the mid to late first/early 2nd round. I like Grayson. He has completed 65% of his passes for 3,024 yards, 26 tds, and five ints. I have begun to go back to the 26-27-60 rules created by John Lopez. A QB with a Wunderlich of 26, started 27 games in college, and has completed at least 60% of his passes is worth drafting. While we don’t yet know his Wunderlich, he has more than 27 games started and has completed more than 60% of his pass attempts.

2. Dorial Green-Beckham, WR, Oklahoma, 6’6, 220lbs, 4.55
The Texans have struggled with second round picks. In the Rick Smith era, here are the selections: 2006: Demeco Ryans: success, 2007/2008: trade for Schaub, 2009: Connor Barwin: success, 2010: Ben Tate: fail, 2011: Brooks Reed: pick em, Brandon Harris: Fail, 2012: DeVier Posey: Fail, 2013: DJ Sweringer: Success. That is not a good rate of success. I say, swing for the fences. Go get a potential playmaker in DGB. Yes, he has some character issues, but a coach like bOB should be able to harness his ability. If you are going to miss, at least miss on a highly talented guy rather than some lesser talented choir boy.

3. Sean Hickey, OT, Syracuse, 6’5, 300lbs, 5.20
Hickey did a good job in the LT spot taking over for Justin Pugh when he graduated to the NFL. Pugh would be a great RT for the Texans. He has very good technique and is strong in his run blocking and pass protection fundamentals. His knock is his size and the questions in regards to whether he can play at the LT spot. That’s fine with me as I would love to grab him and have him compete for the RT spot. Newton seems to give up at least one hold or false start per game. Part of that is lack of discipline, fundamentals, and technique. Hickey could be an upgrade.

4. Henry Anderson, 3-4DE, Stanford, 6’6, 287lbs, 5.05
In my mind he would be an excellent compliment to the defensive line. Strong tough run defender with some pass rush ability. He has had some great games and some others where he has simply disappeared. As part of a rotation, I think he would help shore up the edge and provide some pass rush ability.

5. Terry Williams, NT, East Carolina, 6’1, 353lbs, 5.21.
I was watching East Carolina in order to scout Cardin and walked away even more impressed with Williams. A HUGE mammoth of a man who looked like he was steamrolling OLs. He was virtually unblockable in the big East Carolina upset of Virginia Tech. If you can go watch that film. Sure, he will have conditioning issues, but as part of a rotation with Nix and Pickett I think he could be great. Having him could make some really strong super tough DLs. For example, lets say its 4th and 1.5 and the offense decides to go for it. Crennel could send out a DL of Watt, Williams, Pickett, and Anderson. Best of luck getting 1.5 yards against that group!

6. Silverberry Mouhon, 3-4LB, Cincinnati, 6’4, 248lbs, 4.73
Gotta love the name. Can play in the middle or on the edge. Has good passrushing skills and is big enough to play inside if needed. Can always use LBs in the 3-4 system.

7. Derek Watt, FB, Wisconsin, 6’1, 231lbs, 4.66
I think that Jay Prosch is a fine FB. This move is not about Prosch, its about Watt, JJ, not Derek. I want JJ to feel happy in Htown, comfortable, and thrilled to be here. Sure he just signed his big contract, but I want him to be happy to be here for the remainder of his career. Bringing in his brother may help with that. Besides that, Little Watt could help out on special teams, a short yardage back, or possibly even outplay JP.

1. I've only watched Grayson twice as I recall and he did nothing for me. I think we have our future QBs on roster today so will not waste a pick this early.
2. DG-B I'm a fan but would not risk 2nd on him as we have to hit big this draft. No way McNair allows him.
3. We can get Hickey's equivalent later in draft and on my soon to be posted mock, I do just that.

5. Now ya talking but I'd rather resign Powe and Pickett to go with Nix & save that pick but Williams shocked me also as I watched Carden. This boulder moves with a relentless motor and did not seem to tire. Reminds me of when I watched Baylor's Drango in that up tempo offense.

 

[TexansFTW]

Apparently you didn't watch his bowl game.

This is kind of how I feel too. In college you only have so many big games to prove yourself, and those big games are what can change you a whole round and sometimes more IMO if you're playing in a mediocre conference like this guy.

He was pretty decent in his 2013 bowl game against a mediocre .500 record Mike Leech defense, but yeah, not sold. I respect everyone's opinion on this guy, and I can definitely be wrong, but I don't think he is anything more than a 3rd round pick and I don't see a long term starting NFL QB in him.

I know Rick Smith has been a garbage GM when it comes to anything outside of the first round and our 3rd rounders haven't had success, but IMO good playoff teams are the teams that get either day 1 starters to fill a need in the 3rd round, or guys that are gonna take some contract year guy's job. Obviously the Texans have a lot of holes, so we need a day 1 starter with our 3rd round pick, so I honestly want nothing to do with this guy. Give me a potentially elite QB or give me nothing.

Once Andre and Foster leave we will be picking at the top for the foreseeable future, then we can go after the QB we want and need.

 

[WolverineFan]

I'm not going to grade Grayson too harshly on his bowl game as it was his first game without his Head Coach / Offensive Coordinator. Tough spot for him against a pretty good Utah defense. He played decently against a really tough Boston College defense earlier this year and was solid against Alabama last year.

I like him, but his hype is starting to get out of control on here. He's not a 1st round talent and I expect he won't get drafted until the 3rd round at the earliest. The thing on his side is that this is such a weak QB class that, if he can establish himself as the top guy behind Winston/Mariota, someone might reach for him and take him pretty early. I'm pretty confident that 3rd guy will be Hundley though.

 

[steelbtexan]

I'm not going to grade Grayson too harshly on his bowl game as it was his first game without his Head Coach / Offensive Coordinator. Tough spot for him against a pretty good Utah defense. He played decently against a really tough Boston College defense earlier this year and was solid against Alabama last year.

I like him, but his hype is starting to get out of control on here. He's not a 1st round talent and I expect he won't get drafted until the 3rd round at the earliest. The thing on his side is that this is such a weak QB class that, if he can establish himself as the top guy behind Winston/Mariota, someone might reach for him and take him pretty early. I'm pretty confident that 3rd guy will be Hundley though.

I didn't see the bowl game. How did Sambraillo look against that talented Utah DL?

 

[WolverineFan]

I didn't see the bowl game. How did Sambraillo look against that talented Utah DL?

He acquitted himself when matched up on other players, but Orchard won that battle hands down.

I don't see long term LT potential here. He reminds me a bit of Mitchell Schwartz (OT from Cal drafted by Browns). Should play RT or move inside.

 

[steelbtexan]

He acquitted himself when matched up on other players, but Orchard won that battle hands down.

I don't see long term LT potential here. He reminds me a bit of Mitchell Schwartz (OT from Cal drafted by Browns). Should play RT or move inside.

2nd/3rd rd right tackle for the Texans?

I love the way he competes and think all he's lacking is functional strength. He was my sleeper for the Texans this yr.

Your thoughts

 

[WolverineFan]

2nd/3rd rd right tackle for the Texans?

I love the way he competes and think all he's lacking is functional strength. He was my sleeper for the Texans this yr.

Your thoughts

I have him in 3rd round. He has a good skill set that should be able to translate, but he doesn't really excel in any one area. He hits check marks across the board but doesn't wow you with anything which is why I compare him to Schwartz as I thought the same of him when he came out.

 

[bah007]

If somebody says they have watched Grayson multiple times and they just don't see a good pro prospect, that's fine. We can agree to disagree, but at least you've done your homework enough to back up your opinion.

But I would suggest caution before knocking down a guy based on one game that you saw (or just looked up the box score), especially when he was the closest thing to a bright spot for his team in that game.

This was by far Grayson's worst performance of the year. But I'd look at it with a little context. His HC/OC had just left, and this was the team's first game without him. Not only that, but they were playing a significantly better team who's strength was their defense, which is littered with potential NFL guys.

Colorado St's line got destroyed the entire game. They couldn't protect the QB and they paved the way for only 12 rushing yards on 19 attempts. Their Biletnikoff finalist at WR dropped three passes, one of which was a sure TD early in the game when things were still close. Their defense gave up 29 first downs and 548 yards, 359 of which were on the ground at 7.5 a carry.

Colorado St was totally outclassed from start to finish. Some of that does ultimately fall on the QB, and as someone who likes Grayson as a prospect I was certainly hoping that he would have performed better.

 

[badboy]

If somebody says they have watched Grayson multiple times and they just don't see a good pro prospect, that's fine. We can agree to disagree, but at least you've done your homework enough to back up your opinion.

But I would suggest caution before knocking down a guy based on one game that you saw (or just looked up the box score), especially when he was the closest thing to a bright spot for his team in that game.

This was by far Grayson's worst performance of the year. But I'd look at it with a little context. His HC/OC had just left, and this was the team's first game without him. Not only that, but they were playing a significantly better team who's strength was their defense, which is littered with potential NFL guys.

Colorado St's line got destroyed the entire game. They couldn't protect the QB and they paved the way for only 12 rushing yards on 19 attempts. Their Biletnikoff finalist at WR dropped three passes, one of which was a sure TD early in the game when things were still close. Their defense gave up 29 first downs and 548 yards, 359 of which were on the ground at 7.5 a carry.

Colorado St was totally outclassed from start to finish. Some of that does ultimately fall on the QB, and as someone who likes Grayson as a prospect I was certainly hoping that he would have performed better.

If you are going to use a first on a QB would you not want one that did better at overcoming the odds you mention?

 

[Playoffs]

If somebody says they have watched Grayson multiple times and they just don't see a good pro prospect, that's fine. We can agree to disagree, but at least you've done your homework enough to back up your opinion.....

Honestly, from the limited views I've had, and without some equal footing to compare, I do like the overall look of Grayson... close but maybe not over Conner Cook.

I do have some concerns about processing speed as there was the odd instance where I'm yelling at him to turn it loose. His mechanics look pretty good to me most of the time... might adjust the hips a bit... he does sometimes have this odd elongated layback of the arm when throwing flat screens. But it looked like he can put some mustard on it. I would have liked to compare those two side by side.

On the bowl game, my concern is about production... especially against a better team. #82 helped him out with some nice grabs. ( Cook I thought did okay vs. Ohio State.) I wondered if Grayson was actually going through a progression or just throwing in an obligatory lookoff? Seemed to lock on first guy a lot. First thing I'd add to his repertoire is that subtle Farve/Romo shoulder twitch.

My concern is it seems like since Cook is returning -- wonder what grade he was given? -- people are just replacing him in the draft order with Grayson, so I was questioning that thinking. If he's a 2nd round prospect, why does he jump a round because another QB dropped out? That was all. I'm waiting for coach's cutups to start hitting my inbox.

 

[bah007]

If you are going to use a first on a QB would you not want one that did better at overcoming the odds you mention?

The point is noted, trust me. But I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that most of you guys have caught a maximum of one Colorado St game.

Are we taking Andrew Luck off the draft board when he came out? Because he had an extremely similar performance against Oregon his final year. Sounds like he's a 3rd round prospect because he couldn't overcome the odds that day.

Overreaction to one single performance is how a guy like Bridgewater falls to the end of the first round because he didn't look good throwing in shorts one time.

I've been studying Grayson for two years now. This game will have an impact on how I view him as a prospect, but judging him by this single game seems like a very misguided notion.

 

[bah007]

Honestly, from the limited views I've had, and without some equal footing to compare, I do like the overall look of Grayson... close but maybe not over Conner Cook.

I do have some concerns about processing speed as there was the odd instance where I'm yelling at him to turn it loose. His mechanics look pretty good to me most of the time... might adjust the hips a bit... he does sometimes have this odd elongated layback of the arm when throwing flat screens. But it looked like he can put some mustard on it. I would have liked to compare those two side by side.

I like Cook a lot. I think at this time next year he will be a better prospect than Grayson is right now. But at this moment in time, I like Grayson a little bit more.

I think Grayson is more prepared pre snap. He's consistently accurate whereas Cook can occasionally get sloppy. And I think both have small mechanical problems, but Grayson's is an easier fix.

On the bowl game, my concern is about production... especially against a better team. #82 helped him out with some nice grabs. ( Cook I thought did okay vs. Ohio State.) I wondered if Grayson was actually going through a progression or just throwing in an obligatory lookoff? Seemed to lock on first guy a lot. First thing I'd add to his repertoire is that subtle Farve/Romo shoulder twitch.

Colorado St started the game with their normal offense, but they were getting crushed on the line. They tried to counter by making everything quick. It looked like they did take some of the progressions out and set up a lot of horizontal plays to back Utah off, but their guys just couldn't make plays in space. He was locking on a lot as the game went on, but based on play design I would say it had more to do with pre snap hot reads than an inability to move to the next guy.

I think adding a slight, easy pump fake to his toolbox would be a great idea.

My concern is it seems like since Cook is returning -- wonder what grade he was given? -- people are just replacing him in the draft order with Grayson, so I was questioning that thinking. If he's a 2nd round prospect, why does he jump a round because another QB dropped out? That was all. I'm waiting for coach's cutups to start hitting my inbox.

Cook just may be one of those guys who enjoys playing in college. Luck went back to school when everybody already knew he was guaranteed to be the #1 pick. Some guys just want to maximize what they get out of that experience. I think he'd be drafted in the first round if he came out this year.

I think some people are moving Grayson up because Cook is going back to school. I've also seen some rumors that Winston may return, but I'll believe that when I see it.

I have Grayson as my #2 QB whether those guys declare or not, so I'd use a first on him regardless.

I'm not really sure what is out there online in mocks and such. I try not to look if I can help it because I'd like to go by what my own eyes see as much as possible.

 

[beerlover]

Happy Holidays & Merry Christmas Doppelmockster

At least this way Texans would ensure they get their man instead of waiting until they pick again in 2nd rd. only to see another team trade up in front of them. Lol. Fully support this selection. Go with rotation of Keenum/Savage/Grayson (question if Texans will be able to sign Mallet to a much bigger free agent contract & Fitz coming off injury).

Big body weapon addition to receiving arsenal. I like it. Also feel he could be way better next level in more of a pro style system.

Think I was on Hickey last year before he decided to return to school. Would be great addition to this line of over achievers.

Depth @ DE is always welcome in a 3-4. Been a little disappointed with recent Stanford defensive studs draft stock declining but given time prove they get it right as pros worthy of original draft grades. Well coached, smart with coveted size for position. You know a couple years ago Texans brought in an undrafted kid out of Oregon who was just a mountain of a man but lacked similar speed, so it was thought & released without signing after try out. He know plays key role for Philadelphia Eagles interior defense line. Brandon Bair, 6'6 290.

Williams is a run stuffer no doubt & another very smart pick to address talent inside & make DL deeper.

Silverberry Mouhon is a great name for a football player. Adding to a very defense heavy front 7 you have targeted. Also tells me expect movement with current roster as Crennel builds, tweeks his defense.

Say Watt? like selection & see him as a better offensive weapon than Prosch. More carries, receptions & red zone targets plus excellent special teams player.

Hit skill positions early & fortify line then go defensive depth heavy! Like to add another young corner but get it with excellent play seen from AJ Bouye, Andre Hall, Darryl Morris & Jumal Rolle. Just one question, do you think Texans are able to restructure Jonathan Jospeh contract to resign Kareem Jackson? If so Texans would be set @ position.

Great job & thankful for your latest Doppelmock & putting Grayson out there for discussion!

BL

 

[steelbtexan]

I like Cook a lot. I think at this time next year he will be a better prospect than Grayson is right now. But at this moment in time, I like Grayson a little bit more.

I think Grayson is more prepared pre snap. He's consistently accurate whereas Cook can occasionally get sloppy. And I think both have small mechanical problems, but Grayson's is an easier fix.



Colorado St started the game with their normal offense, but they were getting crushed on the line. They tried to counter by making everything quick. It looked like they did take some of the progressions out and set up a lot of horizontal plays to back Utah off, but their guys just couldn't make plays in space. He was locking on a lot as the game went on, but based on play design I would say it had more to do with pre snap hot reads than an inability to move to the next guy.

I think adding a slight, easy pump fake to his toolbox would be a great idea.



Cook just may be one of those guys who enjoys playing in college. Luck went back to school when everybody already knew he was guaranteed to be the #1 pick. Some guys just want to maximize what they get out of that experience. I think he'd be drafted in the first round if he came out this year.

I think some people are moving Grayson up because Cook is going back to school. I've also seen some rumors that Winston may return, but I'll believe that when I see it.

I have Grayson as my #2 QB whether those guys declare or not, so I'd use a first on him regardless.

I'm not really sure what is out there online in mocks and such. I try not to look if I can help it because I'd like to go by what my own eyes see as much as possible.

I've seen a couple of Grayson's games. (Both losses) He looks like a good, not great QB prospect to me. Avg arm strength at best. I wonder what type of QB he will be in the NFL Alex Smith, Bridgewater, Dalton? Or is he along the lines of Orton,McCown, Sanchez, Hoyer.

Grayson has the tools to become a starter in the NFL, the level of starter is my concern. You have Grayson over Mariota/Winston?

 

[thunderkyss]

I've seen a couple of Grayson's games. (Both losses) He looks like a good, not great QB prospect to me. Avg arm strength at best. I wonder what type of QB he will be in the NFL Alex Smith, Bridgewater, Dalton? Or is he along the lines of Orton,McCown, Sanchez, Hoyer.

Grayson has the tools to become a starter in the NFL, the level of starter is my concern. You have Grayson over Mariota/Winston?

I wonder what kind of QB Bridgewater will be in the NFL. Dalton too for that matter, he appears to be changing his stripes.

 

[Marshall]

We're on the same page on Grayson. I think he is similar to Bridgewater in the sense that he isn't the most physically talented QB in this class, but he is the one that I would feel most comfortable handing the keys to my offense.

There is no denying that DGB is a physical freak. I wouldn't cry about us taking him here, although his inability to stay out of trouble could be a potential headache.

I think Hickey is a great choice in the 3rd. He would instantly compete for the starting job at RT.

I'm not super high on Anderson. I certainly don't think he is a 4th round caliber player. But I do think that he will hold down a roster spot on any team that runs a 34 defense.

I was unfamiliar with Williams last month but I've been studying up on him and I really like what I see. He actually came to ECU as a MLB but just kept getting bigger. Personally, I'd flip him and Anderson. This guy can play.

No problem with this take in the 6th. I don't really think he can play in the middle in the pros. He's not a leverage player and his height will really hinder him in there. I think he will be a depth player as an edge rusher. Still like the pick, just don't think he's an ILB.

I understand what you're saying about the 7th rounder but I'm just not into that idea. Keep Watt here by building a winner, not bribing him with his family. I don't think Watt is a upgrade over Prosch or anywhere else on our roster. Personally, I'd look in another direction here.

So a player ranked as a fifth rounder is worth using your first round pick because he's a QB? I'm sorry. That is a ridiculous reach. Maybe 4/15 or even 3/15 if you really like him. But it sounds a lot like what we already have.

 

[bah007]

I've seen a couple of Grayson's games. (Both losses) He looks like a good, not great QB prospect to me. Avg arm strength at best. I wonder what type of QB he will be in the NFL Alex Smith, Bridgewater, Dalton? Or is he along the lines of Orton,McCown, Sanchez, Hoyer.

Grayson has the tools to become a starter in the NFL, the level of starter is my concern. You have Grayson over Mariota/Winston?

His arm strength is fine. He doesn't throw a good deep ball but he throws ropes on everything else. He looks to me like a guy with Dalton's physical skills but better prepared mentally.

I have Grayson solidly behind Mariota but ahead of Winston. I don't think Winston has the mental makeup to be successful in the NFL. I won't fault anyone who get sucked in by his physical abilities but I'd pass on him. Doesn't matter how big he is or how far he can throw if he doesn't know where to go with the ball.

 

[bah007]

So a player ranked as a fifth rounder is worth using your first round pick because he's a QB? I'm sorry. That is a ridiculous reach. Maybe 4/15 or even 3/15 if you really like him. But it sounds a lot like what we already have.

Ranked as a fifth rounder by whom? Obviously not by me. I couldn't care less where others have him rated, to be quite honest. Not because I don't respect what others have to say, but because I prefer to rank players based on what I see, not what others see. I have a pretty solid track record doing it my way.

If I were the Texans I wouldn't take Grayson, because I think they are already prepared to invest in Mallett for the time being. But there are other teams that need QBs and if I were that team I would give Grayson consideration at some point in the first round.

 

[steelbtexan]

Ranked as a fifth rounder by whom? Obviously not by me. I couldn't care less where others have him rated, to be quite honest. Not because I don't respect what others have to say, but because I prefer to rank players based on what I see, not what others see. I have a pretty solid track record doing it my way.

If I were the Texans I wouldn't take Grayson, because I think they are already prepared to invest in Mallett for the time being. But there are other teams that need QBs and if I were that team I would give Grayson consideration at some point in the first round.

I appreciate you finding a guy and being willing to step up and say this is my guy instead of going along with the crowd. Matt Miller with bleacher report and others at FF see Grayson as a late rd pick. They are wrong, IMHO as long as he has the aptitude to learn a NFL playbook. They question Grayson'sability to do this. This is bunk. Grayson didn't seem to have any trouble learning McElwain's system in a short period of time.

From what I've seen if Grayson is there in the 2nd/3rd rd and I'm a team like the Cardinals he would be my pick. He could sit and learn under Arians for a couple of yrs and step in and start for 10 yrs.

 

[Playoffs]

Matt Miller with bleacher report and others at FF see Grayson as a late rd pick. They are wrong...

Yeah, you've got to differentiate between the group I lump together and call "DraftTwitter" and those who have actually scouted for or played in the NFL or held higher positions with teams.

DraftTwitter is a self-serving industry of unqualified "draft experts" who tweet and tweet and tweet and post on BR and other click-driven site models with the purpose of promoting themselves for profit. They take turns interviewing each other for their podcasts, which spins the self promotion further. Pretty soon some local radio show producer Google's "draft expert" or "mock draft" and old Marty McDraft's name comes up in the first 30 results so he uses the guy for a 12 minute spot he needs to fill.

Pretty soon these DraftTwitter guys have blog bios declaring their expertise, they start getting paid for the little radio spots, they start selling their draft guides online and, bam, they've created a little industry for themselves supported by BR clicks and part-time/casual fans who don't know better. Content is king, if you can spew you'll do, words win... and so on.

These DraftTwitter guys are constantly going back and forth with each other during the draft process and what unwittingly emerges over time is a form of groupthink on prospects. When the real experts -- those being paid to do it in the NFL -- make their selections during the draft DraftTwitter is convinced that the NFL got it wrong when the drafted X player over the guy they had rated much higher.

Mark Schlereth was on some draft show a few years ago with other draft "experts" and one of them was McShay or one of those DraftTwitter guys... As the DT guy was pontificating on a prospect Schlereth interrupted him a few times challenging him on the basis from which he was making his opinions... He started asking him basic football questions like what does "wham" or "jet" mean and what is "press"/"bail"/"rip" or something similar and the guy -- and it seems like it was McShay, but I'm not sure now -- the guy didn't know anything about football. It was quick and dirty and the show continued without further input from the DraftTwitter guy.

I re-post pretty much everything here on TexansTalk -- a lot of DraftTwitter content and also content from real NFL scouts and former front office guys. I don't subscribe to most of it or qualify one over the other -- the goal here for me is to generate conversation/thought and let you make up your own mind about it. I post Kiper and McShay. If you follow very closely you can see some laughable twists. Like when Gil Brandt heard about O'Brien's weeks earlier workout of Tom Savage and tweeted about it.... and all of a sudden DraftTwitter started mocking Savage to the Texans or another team in the 2nd round! Did their evals change 4 rounds???

To be clear, none of what I do or have learned makes gives me any scouting credence either. But I do understand this piece of the business, and I do know who knows what they're talking about. There's everybody else, there are the try-hards, and then there are the guys who just know -- the naturals. They can just see it. Like Scot McCloughan. From what I've seen over the last few years, we have a pretty good "natural" here on TexansTalk in bah007. His opinions align with those who influence decisions by teams as much any anyone's I've seen.

Not to say they're always correct, bah007 & pro scouts, but they know of what they speak. I think we're pretty lucky to have him posting on TTalk, and I'll take his opinion over any of 100+ commonly known DraftTwitter guys.

Apologies to DG for the long-windedness. Just had to complete a thought.

 

[ObsiWan]

DeMeco was not during the Smith era.

I would not call Tate a failed pick.

Yeah, DeMeco was a Casserly pick.
And we got some good service out of Tate. He just kept getting hurt. And if you can foresee who will get injured and who will not with any reliable degree of accuracy, any NFL team will pay you a mint.

I'd call Harris a definite fail and Posey and incomplete ...but leaning towards fail.

 

[steelbtexan]

Yeah, you've got to differentiate between the group I lump together and call "DraftTwitter" and those who have actually scouted for or played in the NFL or held higher positions with teams.

DraftTwitter is a self-serving industry of unqualified "draft experts" who tweet and tweet and tweet and post on BR and other click-driven site models with the purpose of promoting themselves for profit. They take turns interviewing each other for their podcasts, which spins the self promotion further. Pretty soon some local radio show producer Google's "draft expert" or "mock draft" and old Marty McDraft's name comes up in the first 30 results so he uses the guy for a 12 minute spot he needs to fill.

Pretty soon these DraftTwitter guys have blog bios declaring their expertise, they start getting paid for the little radio spots, they start selling their draft guides online and, bam, they've created a little industry for themselves supported by BR clicks and part-time/casual fans who don't know better. Content is king, if you can spew you'll do, words win... and so on.

These DraftTwitter guys are constantly going back and forth with each other during the draft process and what unwittingly emerges over time is a form of groupthink on prospects. When the real experts -- those being paid to do it in the NFL -- make their selections during the draft DraftTwitter is convinced that the NFL got it wrong when the drafted X player over the guy they had rated much higher.

Mark Schlereth was on some draft show a few years ago with other draft "experts" and one of them was McShay or one of those DraftTwitter guys... As the DT guy was pontificating on a prospect Schlereth interrupted him a few times challenging him on the basis from which he was making his opinions... He started asking him basic football questions like what does "wham" or "jet" mean and what is "press"/"bail"/"rip" or something similar and the guy -- and it seems like it was McShay, but I'm not sure now -- the guy didn't know anything about football. It was quick and dirty and the show continued without further input from the DraftTwitter guy.

I re-post pretty much everything here on TexansTalk -- a lot of DraftTwitter content and also content from real NFL scouts and former front office guys. I don't subscribe to most of it or qualify one over the other -- the goal here for me is to generate conversation/thought and let you make up your own mind about it. I post Kiper and McShay. If you follow very closely you can see some laughable twists. Like when Gil Brandt heard about O'Brien's weeks earlier workout of Tom Savage and tweeted about it.... and all of a sudden DraftTwitter started mocking Savage to the Texans or another team in the 2nd round! Did their evals change 4 rounds???

To be clear, none of what I do or have learned makes gives me any scouting credence either. But I do understand this piece of the business, and I do know who knows what they're talking about. There's everybody else, there are the try-hards, and then there are the guys who just know -- the naturals. They can just see it. Like Scot McCloughan. From what I've seen over the last few years, we have a pretty good "natural" here on TexansTalk in bah007. His opinions align with those who influence decisions by teams as much any anyone's I've seen.

Not to say they're always correct, bah007 & pro scouts, but they know of what they speak. I think we're pretty lucky to have him posting on TTalk, and I'll take his opinion over any of 100+ commonly known DraftTwitter guys.

Apologies to DG for the long-windedness. Just had to complete a thought.

This post is exactly how I feel.

Most of my posts on prospects are guys I've seen play live and just thoughts on what I see. I'm certainly no expert and look forward to seeing what Bah thinks or how he's got a prospect rated compared to what I've seen. Grayson is a great example of this.

I just want to give thanks to you/Bah/CND etc.... for making this the best NFL MB on the internet. Your contributions are greatly appreciated.

 

[Marshall]

Ranked as a fifth rounder by whom? Obviously not by me. I couldn't care less where others have him rated, to be quite honest. Not because I don't respect what others have to say, but because I prefer to rank players based on what I see, not what others see. I have a pretty solid track record doing it my way.

If I were the Texans I wouldn't take Grayson, because I think they are already prepared to invest in Mallett for the time being. But there are other teams that need QBs and if I were that team I would give Grayson consideration at some point in the first round.

First Pick 128
CBS 130

At least at this time, fifth round starts at 125. If you have him evaluated higher, then fine. I have no basis to disagree. But I would use the other for determining where I would target him. If you wanted him, you could probably get him at 4/16 and if you REALLY wanted him then 3/16. But any earlier is wasting picks.

 

[bah007]

First Pick 128
CBS 130

At least at this time, fifth round starts at 125. If you have him evaluated higher, then fine. I have no basis to disagree. But I would use the other for determining where I would target him. If you wanted him, you could probably get him at 4/16 and if you REALLY wanted him then 3/16. But any earlier is wasting picks.

Understand the point you're trying to make but if he turned into a franchise QB it wouldn't be a waste, regardless of if I could have picked him up later.

Now if he busts, then I look like an idiot.

 

[Marshall]

Understand the point you're trying to make but if he turned into a franchise QB it wouldn't be a waste, regardless of if I could have picked him up later.

Now if he busts, then I look like an idiot.

You would never leave the questions about why you took him so high. Even if he turns out to be the best QB ever and worth the pick, the probability you could have had him AND an exceptional team mate will always linger in the mind.

 

[steelbtexan]

Understand the point you're trying to make but if he turned into a franchise QB it wouldn't be a waste, regardless of if I could have picked him up later.

Now if he busts, then I look like an idiot.

Nah, it's just an educated guess.

If he busts you look like Webster/Speilman/Jags ex GM. (Ponder/Locker/Gabbert)

 

[bah007]

You would never leave the questions about why you took him so high. Even if he turns out to be the best QB ever and worth the pick, the probability you could have had him AND an exceptional team mate will always linger in the mind.

Sure you would. If the guy turns into the best QB ever then obviously you did the right thing by taking him where you did. Because if you wanted him there but passed and someone else got him you would always kick yourself for it.

It is an educated guess, but how much stock can you really put in to where you think other teams will take a guy? If you like him a lot then at least 1/31 other guys is bound to like him as well.

You're weighing risk vs. reward. If you feel that you absolutely have to have him you take him. If you just like him then you slow play it and take him as late as you think you can.

I would have taken Russell Wilson in the first round. Would that have been wrong because he lasted til the third?

Nah, it's just an educated guess.

If he busts you look like Webster/Speilman/Jags ex GM. (Ponder/Locker/Gabbert)

Locker and Gabbert actually weren't considered reaches when they were taken. Pretty sure some people in the media were talking about #1 with Gabbert.

I'd throw Manuel and Tannehill in there. Buffalo and Miami could have waited to take those guys but they really liked them so they took them early and didn't risk letting someone else have them. Like you said, educated guess.

 

[infantrycak]

You would never leave the questions about why you took him so high. Even if he turns out to be the best QB ever and worth the pick, the probability you could have had him AND an exceptional team mate will always linger in the mind.

If he turns into a great QB then the folks who come in and say "yeah but you could have had Travis Johnson and him" will look like snarky people in armchairs.

 

[thunderkyss]

I'd throw Manuel and Tannehill in there. Buffalo and Miami could have waited to take those guys but they really liked them so they took them early and didn't risk letting someone else have them. Like you said, educated guess.

That's all that matters to me. If you can convince yourself that another team was looking to take him, then you can throw that "First Pick" or "CBS" ranking out the window.

It's not like any scout looks at their own internal list & say, "Well, the guy's the 155th player on our list, we can wait."

More than likely they're like, "We just heard St. Louis is looking to trade up, I think they're trying to get their QB. They like so-&-so... we might have to take him here if we want him."

 

[steelbtexan]

If he turns into a great QB then the folks who come in and say "yeah but you could have had Travis Johnson and him" will look like snarky people in armchairs.

Rodgers should've been the pick looking back, I wanted Derrick Johnson at the time.

Facts were at the time HWNSNBM was the face of the franchise and the McNair's had a mancrush on him. Water under the bridge.

 

[dalemurphy]

Rodgers should've been the pick looking back, I wanted Derrick Johnson at the time.

Facts were at the time HWNSNBM was the face of the franchise and the McNair's had a mancrush on him. Water under the bridge.

Aaron Rodgers would never had developed for us. He needed to sit for a couple years-actually spent the time strength training. Also, if you recall, even when he took over for Favre, he often looked like Rob Johnson... Lacking a pocket presence and holding the ball way too long... He wouldn't have survived the Zach Weigart-Seth Wand era, IMO.

 

[mussop]

Aaron Rodgers would never had developed for us. He needed to sit for a couple years-actually spent the time strength training. Also, if you recall, even when he took over for Favre, he often looked like Rob Johnson... Lacking a pocket presence and holding the ball way too long... He wouldn't have survived the Zach Weigart-Seth Wand era, IMO.

With the way college QB's are coached now they all need to sit and learn for a couple years. There just isn't enough pro style offenses being run anymore.

 

[thunderkyss]

With the way college QB's are coached now they all need to sit and learn for a couple years. There just isn't enough pro style offenses being run anymore.

Agreed.

 

[beerlover]

With the way college QB's are coached now they all need to sit and learn for a couple years. There just isn't enough pro style offenses being run anymore.

The game has evolved pro style QB's just don't survive, not going to say they lack toughness (storied fables of old school QB's certainly plentiful) but physics dictate size speed & strength of modern day football players has closed gap with any cerebral advantage that use to exist. Nowadays a QB better know how to extend plays without standing in pocket taking blow after blow!

 

[infantrycak]

The game has evolved pro style QB's just don't survive, not going to say they lack toughness (storied fables of old school QB's certainly plentiful) but physics dictate size speed & strength of modern day football players has closed gap with any cerebral advantage that use to exist. Nowadays a QB better know how to extend plays without standing in pocket taking blow after blow!

Been hearing this my whole life. Ain't happened yet.

 

[ObsiWan]

The game has evolved pro style QB's just don't survive, not going to say they lack toughness (storied fables of old school QB's certainly plentiful) but physics dictate size speed & strength of modern day football players has closed gap with any cerebral advantage that use to exist. Nowadays a QB better know how to extend plays without standing in pocket taking blow after blow!

Seems to me the "running QBs" are the ones taking the punishment.