I Luv The Guy, But Andre Is Done

[amazing80]

Go back and re-read some of your earlier postings in this thread, and you'll see for yourself how disingenuous that sounded.

What if he doesn't agree to take a pay cut?

No it isn't you guys are just choosing what you want to see. I said from the start he is not worth his current salary. I do think he has top 10 TALENT in this league. He is still a great route runner, great pass catcher (although the last few games is making me question that), great body control and shields defenders well. He has lost a step, but he is still above average in speed. This total package IMO puts him in the 8-10 ranking of overall wrs. He is on the decline though which should reflect in his salary.

 

[BullNation4Life]

No it isn't you guys are just choosing what you want to see. I said from the start he is not worth his current salary. I do think he has top 10 TALENT in this league. He is still a great route runner, great pass catcher (although the last few games is making me question that), great body control and shields defenders well. He has lost a step, but he is still above average in speed. This total package IMO puts him in the 8-10 ranking of overall wrs. He is on the decline though which should reflect in his salary.

He is in the same boat as Fitzgerald in Arizona. Everything you just said about Johnson, is true about Fitzgerald and they both have hefty salaries next season...

 

[thunderkyss]

Can we have a quick show of hands here? How many people are in both of these groups:

1) During preseason when it appeared Dre wanted out, you were adamant he was under contract to the Texans and should take their millions or retire. Cutting/trading him was unacceptable for the team.

2) At this point in the season you think Dre should be cut or take a serious salary reduction to stay with the Texans next year. Keeping him as is is unacceptable to the team.

I don't believe we should ever take a cap hit over $12M or so for anyone other than a QB with the numbers & record to back up an "elite" career.

I don't know that I'll call it a salary reduction... I like "converting a portion of his salary into a signing bonus"

But I'm not too worried about it right now. I think it'll play itself out & I think our future is better with Andre Johnson than without.

 

[Norg]

its going to go down like this

ANdre we love U and want u to retire here and be here 4 life but for us to have success u have to take a pay cut or at least work with Us ...Yes or NO ..?????

depending on his answer ...is how things go down

if he says no he will prob be traded to some Crap NFC team that will overpay for him


if he says yes then its all roses

 

[dc_txtech]

Can we have a quick show of hands here? How many people are in both of these groups:

1) During preseason when it appeared Dre wanted out, you were adamant he was under contract to the Texans and should take their millions or retire. Cutting/trading him was unacceptable for the team.

2) At this point in the season you think Dre should be cut or take a serious salary reduction to stay with the Texans next year. Keeping him as is is unacceptable to the team.

If so, what has changed? If it is just performance, I think it was reasonable to assume during preseason that age would continue to take its toll and he might not have the same killer attitude he had brought to previous seasons. I'm other words, I think the Texans have the exact Andre Johnson many fans were hell bent on keeping when he expressed a desire to move on.

This season we would have had 12 million in dead cap if we cut him vs paying him 15.5 to suit up for the season. We would have been stupid to cut AJ instead of paying him 3.5 million to play this season.

Next season its 7.3 million in dead money vs paying him 16 to play. So it then becomes a question of how much he is worth.

I don't want to get into whether he's worth it or not. From a pure number standpoint it made no sense to release AJ before this season but I could see debating next year.

 

[Texecutioner]

I don't understand what you're deal is. No one is arguing whether he should make that much money. We all agree he is over paid. The difference is some of us feel we can lower his salary and keep him because an 80% AJ is still really good.

You haven't expressed what you just wrote above once in this thread. You came in here waiving your hand and denouncing anyone who even thought of AJ's skills declining. I think now that you probably went and did some research finally, you are realizing that those posts were likely out of line at this point and that there is a lot more relevance to what several of us have been saying. I think everyone in this thread would like to see AJ stay here and have his deal restructured. He is going to have to do that to stay on this team.

I don't know what you're talking about him at 80% or whatever. If it is regarding the references to AJ not caring or giving his full effort, well I'll never accept that from any player on this team on a brand new regime that is trying to improve. I can't believe that I heard so many so called fans in here acting okay with that for a player that is paid around 10 mill this year. If AJ's heart isn't into it, then he can retire and stop wasting the team's money. I never have believed that for one second though. I think AJ has given his full effort all year, and I'm not disappointed in his play. I just realize he is older now.

 

[Texecutioner]

Even more foolish is reading passionate posts that act like any of us have even the slightest say in the matter.

"Make a case" yada yada yada means jack squat. We all watch without even a microscopic ripple of influence on any of it.

Some folks appear unable to respectfully agree to disagree.



yep. Some people seem to ignore the clear message sent by the big guy that signs the checks and sort of owns the team.

It's not a hard concept, but hard heads seem unable to comprehend simple statements.

And what are they going to do about any of it? Boycott the team?

You know you could go back and read the first few pages of the thread and realize how many people called this thread ridiculous and basically acted like it should be okay for one of the highest paid players on the team to dog it when they're supposed to be rooting for the team. You come into a thread with that kind of stuff, then you should be prepared to bring some substance to the argument. This is a forum last time I checked, and drive by posts without any facts tend to get disregarded as just that.

 

[amazing80]

You haven't expressed what you just wrote above once in this thread. You came in here waiving your hand and denouncing anyone who even thought of AJ's skills declining. I think now that you probably went and did some research finally, you are realizing that those posts were likely out of line at this point and that there is a lot more relevance to what several of us have been saying. I think everyone in this thread would like to see AJ stay here and have his deal restructured. He is going to have to do that to stay on this team.

I don't know what you're talking about him at 80% or whatever. If it is regarding the references to AJ not caring or giving his full effort, well I'll never accept that from any player on this team on a brand new regime that is trying to improve. I can't believe that I heard so many so called fans in here acting okay with that for a player that is paid around 10 mill this year. If AJ's heart isn't into it, then he can retire and stop wasting the team's money. I never have believed that for one second though. I think AJ has given his full effort all year, and I'm not disappointed in his play. I just realize he is older now.

Again, you are picking and choosing what you THINK I am saying. Here are some posts from this thread by me (all on page 3, which is where I entered the conversation)

Last I checked Andre has about 18 yards less than Hopkins but over 100 more yac. Don't say he is washed up because it's pathetic and incorrect. Has he lost a step, sure. Is he the Andre of old, no. But he is still a top 10 wide out in this league and is playing with one of the worst starters this season. Regardless of what you mindless baboons think, losing your entire career and playing with garbage qbs takes a toll and can make a person depressed on the field. It's literally the same crap but a different season. Calm the f down on all this Andre is washed up bs and worry about the real problem. Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Never said he would. But he is still a top 3 player on this roster. And top 10 wr in the league. To say we need to move on because he is washed up is dumb

I already said in the smith thread that the AJ contract was a mistake. Mainly because we pushed the dead money to the end of his deal limiting our options with him. His contract had to do more with his accomplishments imo than his value was going to be worth in 2015 and 2016.

Ajs play isn't justified by stats this season especially because his QB is limiting his abilities. The guy still has amazing talent and you see it every now and then when fitz makes a decent play. But fitz isn't consistent enough for Dre to be consistent. I don't know how to instill enough common sense for you to understand it anymore.

So to recap my (not-so) obvious posts, Aj is a top 10 wr IMO still. He is a very valuable player on this team, BUT his contract is too high especially for 2015 and 2016. How that isn't exactly what I posted in this thread you quoted is beyond me. Again, you are complaining and beating your drum for no reason.

 

[thunderkyss]

It sounds silly, but one of the reasons I shied away from Mettenberger in the draft was because I thought he was going to wear the number 8.

 

[Texan_Bill]

It sounds silly, but one of the reasons I shied away from Mettenberger in the draft was because I thought he was going to wear the number 8.

I was more worried about him taking selfies before a game... Just sayin'!

 

[badboy]

AJ's future is in his own hands rest of season. If we need cap room, Watt's 2015 roster bonus due in March of $10 million can be converted to signing bonus to free up cap.

 

[Dan B.]

Who replaces AJ if we trade him? To me WR just became a glaring hole without Andre. Not that he's elite, but we have NOTHING to sub in instead. I guess maybe Watt could play wideout?

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Who replaces AJ if we trade him? To me WR just became a glaring hole without Andre. Not that he's elite, but we have NOTHING to sub in instead. I guess maybe Watt could play wideout?

Free Devier Posey!!!!

 

[Norg]

if we lose AJ next year they will prob draft a WR just in case how high who knows

we prob should of drafted Watkins Number #1 and have that Watkins and Hopkins combo for years 2 come

but ehhhh its whatever clowney was also a cant miss player

 

[Uncle Rico]

Lord almighty go on vacation and come back to the zombie thread that wont die.

The usual good ol' boys sitting around the campfire hocking tobacco loogeys into the spitoon.

Hey on a bright note now that the team has found the future HOF QB we can use the first round pick on a WR Right?! Woo Hoo!

 

[thunderkyss]

Free Devier Posey!!!!

Remember when we couldn't figure out why Ben Tate was in the dog house?

 

[dalemurphy]

Let me say, first, that I don't begrudge a player making as much money as he possibly can. The only interest I have in player salaries is their effect on the team's salary cap. So, when I discuss "worth", I am not asserting a player does or doesn't deserve the money. Instead, I am focused on the best way to budget and allocate the cap dollars to build the strongest team possible.

Consider this question of value and the salary cap:

Which player's average yearly cap hit is higher on their remaining contracts?

Andre Johnson
or
JJ Watt

Answer: it is very close! JJ Watt's average cap hit over the next six years will equal $16.3 million each year. Andre Johnson's cap hit over his final two years will equal $15.5 million... When you adjust/forecast for salary cap inflation in Watt's final 4 years of his contract, it is almost certain that Watt's average cap hit, by percentage, will be significantly less than AJ's will be in 2015 and 2016 (barring a restructure or pay cut).

This is a fair comparison to illustrate cap value. Watt is widely considered the best non-QB in the entire NFL. The Texans, in negotiations with Watt's agent, certainly heard from the agent that Watt is the best player in the NFL, that he is entering his prime years (25 years old) and deserves a contract that reflects those things... Watt's contract (6yrs - $100mil) reflects those things in today's market. When that contract expires after 2020, Watt will be two years younger than Andre Johnson is right now.

So, given the various needs the Texans will have this off-season and the limitations of the salary cap, it would be incredibly short-sighted and foolish if the Texans simply refused to consider off-season scenarios where AJ is cut, traded, and restructures out of loyalty. I don't know what conclusion would be reached, and I am not certain that it would be a good move (particularly since we don't know what the free agent market will be right now).

Regardless, though, if Watt's deal is anywhere in the ballpark of market value, then, without question, it is also true that Andre's cap hit in '15 and '16 is a hefty premium. That, at least, we can agree on. Right?

 

[badboy]

To my knowledge, there is no super star, can't miss FA available next off season that we need cap space for. Allegedly Texans will have $12 m under cap and can move $10 m of Watt's March roster bonus to signing and will then have $22m without any other movement. I'm thinking I'd rather get AJ out of way next season and then go forward.

 

[JB]

To my knowledge, there is no super star, can't miss FA available next off season that we need cap space for. Allegedly Texans will have $12 m under cap and can move $10 m of Watt's March roster bonus to signing and will then have $22m without any other movement. I'm thinking I'd rather get AJ out of way next season and then go forward.

gotta sign KJ, and who else? Newton?

 

[Texecutioner]

Again, you are picking and choosing what you THINK I am saying. Here are some posts from this thread by me (all on page 3, which is where I entered the conversation)







So to recap my (not-so) obvious posts, Aj is a top 10 wr IMO still. He is a very valuable player on this team, BUT his contract is too high especially for 2015 and 2016. How that isn't exactly what I posted in this thread you quoted is beyond me. Again, you are complaining and beating your drum for no reason.

You called people mindless baboons for and cried on and on about the thread even just a few pages ago all because you couldn't fathom the idea that AJ isn't what he used to be. That is what you did. I'm still waiting for this top 10 argument and this argument that he has been one of the best WR's in the league when he hasn't even recorded a 100 yard game or more than one TD. You continue to ignore the request just to use some top 10 claim. I don't have to beat a drum. I've actually used statistical analysis to back up what I'm saying which is that the team can't afford to pay him what his contract demands at this point.

 

[Texecutioner]

gotta sign KJ, and who else? Newton?

We need other players to build this team. OB only has had one off season to get his guys and to get guys that fit in his system.

 

[Texan_Bill]

You know you could go back and read the first few pages of the thread and realize how many people called this thread ridiculous and basically acted like it should be okay for one of the highest paid players on the team to dog it when they're supposed to be rooting for the team. You come into a thread with that kind of stuff, then you should be prepared to bring some substance to the argument. This is a forum last time I checked, and drive by posts without any facts tend to get disregarded as just that.

"Dog it"? Who the eff are you to suggest "someone" is dogging it? Where is your substance with regards to that statement?

Quit being a frieakin' hypocrite. Quit trying to call people out whenever your posts have no substance. Can you call out one instance where AJ "jaked it"? In fact, quit trying to call out AJ whenever it was the Texans organization that extended him and left him with Shitzpatrick as a QB. This after HWSNBM and Schaub.

Then again, I guess if I had I SHitzpatrick (or Carr) throwing to me and they SUCK, It may or may not look like I was "dogging it", myself.


Pretty much one of the dumbest posts ever..... Well at least in my top 100.

Dude, you take yourself way too seriously AND everyone knows it. BTW, how is your Resume and Application to an NFL General Managers position going.... IIRC, you're equally qualified in the NBA. How are those opportunities going?

Substance: (pay particular importance to 2a & 2b):

2
a : ultimate reality that underlies all outward manifestations and change
b : practical importance : meaning, usefulness <the…bill—which will be without substance in the sense that it will authorize nothing more than a set of ideas — Richard Reeves>

Perhaps you should remind yourself of these definitions.....

I'm pretty sure........... Nay, I know DB knows everything about substance.

 

[Texecutioner]

"Dog it"? Who the eff are you to suggest "someone" is dogging it? Where is your substance with regards to that statement?

Why don't you put your glasses on and read for a freaking change. I never once said that AJ was dogging it or not playing hard. I said the opposite several times.

Quit being a frieakin' hypocrite. Quit trying to call people out whenever your posts have no substance. Can you call out one instance where AJ "jaked it"? In fact, quit trying to call out AJ whenever it was the Texans organization that extended him and left him with Shitzpatrick as a QB. This after HWSNBM and Schaub.

Then again, I guess if I had I SHitzpatrick (or Carr) throwing to me and they SUCK, It may or may not look like I was "dogging it", myself.


Pretty much one of the dumbest posts ever..... Well at least in my top 100.

Dude, you take yourself way too seriously AND everyone knows it. BTW, how is your Resume and Application to an NFL General Managers position going.... IIRC, you're equally qualified in the NBA. How are those opportunities going?

Substance: (pay particular importance to 2a & 2b):




Perhaps you should remind yourself of these definitions.....

I'm pretty sure........... Nay, I know DB knows everything about substance.

Lol!

Why don't you put your glasses on and read for a freaking change. I never once said that AJ was dogging it or not playing hard. I said the opposite several times. Good lord, do you ever read anything before spouting off drunk nonsense Bill? It was a ton of others in here who implied that and then excused it. I argued that he wasn't dogging it, and that he doesn't get the same separation that he used to. So before you come attacking me, get your facts straight and get some reading comprehension. Get off the bottle dude.

 

[badboy]

gotta sign KJ, and who else? Newton?

Reed is gone IMO, Mallett, Jamison peanuts if he's here, I think maybe Powe unless Nix is gonna be here, Pickett for certain but all are cheap.

Mallett, Newton, Lewis, KJ, ? Does not look too expensive unless KJ and Mallett go Hollywood.

 

[Texan_Bill]

Lol!

Why don't you put your glasses on and read for a freaking change. I never once said that AJ was dogging it or not playing hard. I said the opposite several times. Good lord, do you ever read anything before spouting off drunk nonsense Bill? It was a ton of others in here who implied that and then excused it. I argued that he wasn't dogging it, and that he doesn't get the same separation that he used to. So before you come attacking me, get your facts straight and get some reading comprehension. Get off the bottle dude.

Get off your own high horse, soap box or tampon....

You are clever, I'll admit that. You are a snake oil salesman (Bud Adams is jealous - even from his grave). Re-read your own bullshyte.. You're such a bad debater that attorneys roll their eyes.

BTW, how weak of a debater are you that you have to "cement" your weak ass argument with such nonsensical arguments as:

A)

spouting off drunk nonsense Bill?

Do you know me? Yes, you have met me. You were wearing your pretty boy jacket, trying to name-drop Rockets personnel that you knew, etc. Impressive. Really..
B)

So before you come attacking me, get your facts straight and get some reading comprehension

My comprehension is just fine. I just see a hypocrite, crawfishing snake whenever I see it...
C)

Get off the bottle dude

Fair enough, but you don't know me from Adam and until you do, get over your sense of self importance, ego and generally douchebaggery. People that actually know me, know my character, know what my drinking habits may or may not entail... I call those people friends. You are not a friend so don't be stupid enough to put yourself in a position to be wrong about me... Then again, you are usually wrong.

I have know idea why I just wasted the last 2 minutes typing the above to "the Dumpster"...


PS. I hope HOU-TEX sees this.

*EDIT*

WOW, that was some pretty lucid, well organized thoughts for someone "who needs to get off the bottle", no?

Jackass!

 

[dc_txtech]

Andre good.

 

[JB]

Reed is gone IMO, Mallett, Jamison peanuts if he's here, I think maybe Powe unless Nix is gonna be here, Pickett for certain but all are cheap.

Mallett, Newton, Lewis, KJ, ? Does not look too expensive unless KJ and Mallett go Hollywood.

what I was thinking

 

[badboy]

what I was thinking

seems to make the "AJ cap hit a huge problem 2015" not so important if he produces.

 

[JB]

seems to make the "AJ cap hit a huge problem 2015" not so important if he produces.

yeah the question is what does the production need to be? Seems most want a 2010 AJ and will never be appeased

 

[Texecutioner]

Get off your own high horse, soap box or tampon....

You are clever, I'll admit that. You are a snake oil salesman (Bud Adams is jealous - even from his grave). Re-read your own bullshyte.. You're such a bad debater that attorneys roll their eyes.

BTW, how weak of a debater are you that you have to "cement" your weak ass argument with such nonsensical arguments as:

A) Do you know me? Yes, you have met me. You were wearing your pretty boy jacket, trying to name-drop Rockets personnel that you knew, etc. Impressive. Really..
B) My comprehension is just fine. I just see a hypocrite, crawfishing snake whenever I see it...
C) Fair enough, but you don't know me from Adam and until you do, get over your sense of self importance, ego and generally douchebaggery. People that actually know me, know my character, know what my drinking habits may or may not entail... I call those people friends. You are not a friend so don't be stupid enough to put yourself in a position to be wrong about me... Then again, you are usually wrong.

I have know idea why I just wasted the last 2 minutes typing the above to "the Dumpster"...


PS. I hope HOU-TEX sees this.

*EDIT*

WOW, that was some pretty lucid, well organized thoughts for someone "who needs to get off the bottle", no?

Jackass!

You have totally wasted not one but two long winded posts of total nonsense about things I've never said once in this thread. Lol!

Here, I'll help you out and do this for you and show you just who has suggested and implied that Bill. :wadepalm:

I think he is jaded and I completely understand with OB and shitzpatrick at the helm. He needs to go to Seattle or Denver or somewhere he can play all out and win a SB then retire.

I feel that he has no love for the game anymore.

Andre Johnson is done giving his all for this piece of crap organization that doesn't give a F about the qb position.

I would lose heart too if the team I played for knocked me out of the Hall of Fame with two years of Case Keenum and Ryan Fitzpatrick.

There were a few plays where he was walking on the field while play was going on. Just not a whole lot of effort.

Wasted AJ's career and currently wasting Foster's and Watt's too. Very nice.

Andre probably realized that his career is about to end without a championship. So he doesn't give a crap anymore. Just cashing checks now. IMO.

.......


He's done alright. Done with this situation he's in.

Until you can find any posts where I suggested or claimed that AJ was ever dogging it, then you can come question me about criticizing AJ for quitting on the team.

Let the folks who can read do the debating Bill. It has always been something you aren't capable of. You are known for drive by one liner posts generally and stories about your escapades in Treasures. Leave the debating for folks who follow the NFL and aren't wasted at the tailgate every week to understand what is going on.

Go find Hou-Tex or something dude and get lost.

 

[badboy]

Can you two take your feud to the PM and let us get back to football rather than be nasty? No reason for any of us to get personal..it's a message board not a court room.

 

[Texecutioner]

Can you two take your feud to the PM and let us get back to football rather than be nasty? No reason for any of us to get personal..it's a message board not a court room.

I've kept to the subject of this thread the entire time. Honestly I don't mind being attacked, but at least attack what I've actually written and argued. Hell, I got attacked by stuff a ton of other people implied and wrote. I think I'm entitled to set the record straight. I can't control what others do in a rampage because they are to lazy to read the posts in the thread and write out a rebuttal to what I did in fact imply or argue in my posts. Hell, I even took the time and did his work for him.

 

[theNumber80]

Well I don't believe this year's stats tell us anything. The offense we've been playing with... run on first, run on second, throw on third & long... Show me the last thousand yard receiver who had Fitz chucking him the ball for 9 games?

& while Hop may have better yards than Andre, he's still on the field with Andre & if you can't see Aj getting the lion's share of the coverage, I don't know what to tell you.

But... I didn't think Ty Hilton was going to do crap without Reggie Wayne last year either, so what do I know.

Even if Andre was as good as I think he is, I still don't think he's worth a $16M cap hit, so we agree there. But I bet he'll double his numbers from here on out. he'll finish the season with 110 catches & 1260 yards, & 2 TDs. That'll tell me the guy ain't done.

So much this. AJ isn't the AJ of old but it's still clear as day how much attention he gathers. He's seeing the opposition's #1 corner the majority of the time and rarely gets a free release like Hopkins does. You think defensive coordinators would let Andre run freely on an underneath route 3 times in a game like they did Hopkins? Hopkins benefits from the coverage AJ draws which is what makes AJ still so important to this offense. I'd like to think that a guy who has posted up 3000 yards in just the last 2 seasons didn't suddenly just lose every single skill all of a sudden.

 

[infantrycak]

So much this. AJ isn't the AJ of old but it's still clear as day how much attention he gathers. He's seeing the opposition's #1 corner the majority of the time and rarely gets a free release like Hopkins does. You think defensive coordinators would let Andre run freely on an underneath route 3 times in a game like they did Hopkins? Hopkins benefits from the coverage AJ draws which is what makes AJ still so important to this offense. I'd like to think that a guy who has posted up 3000 yards in just the last 2 seasons didn't suddenly just lose every single skill all of a sudden.

Well I suppose you could believe all the DCs are fools.

 

[Texan_Bill]

Can you two take your feud to the PM and let us get back to football rather than be nasty? No reason for any of us to get personal..it's a message board not a court room.

Hey badboy, I'll get back to the feud later, and yessir, the personal stuff is ridiculous....

Yessir, irrespective of that BS, let's get back to football. More importantly, "Dre"...

I love it.

Andre is NOT DONE!! He will be rejuvenated with Mallett's ability to throw the long ball coupled with the fact that DeAndre "NUK" Hopkins is a deep threat as well.

Dre will have a decent season with what I suspect an even better one next year, thusly retiring a Houston Texan (hopefully with another couple after that).

 

[Texan_Bill]

I see "Shaft" lurking..... Why y'all so quiet down at your end???

 

[dalemurphy]

So much this. AJ isn't the AJ of old but it's still clear as day how much attention he gathers. He's seeing the opposition's #1 corner the majority of the time and rarely gets a free release like Hopkins does. You think defensive coordinators would let Andre run freely on an underneath route 3 times in a game like they did Hopkins? Hopkins benefits from the coverage AJ draws which is what makes AJ still so important to this offense. I'd like to think that a guy who has posted up 3000 yards in just the last 2 seasons didn't suddenly just lose every single skill all of a sudden.

If I was an NFL scout, this would be my report on Andre Johnson in 2014:

He is a big target and a physical receiver who expects to win the ball in traffic. He inspires confidence from his teammates because he has made so many plays in his career and is universally respected throughout the NFL. Because of his experience and how crucial he was to the teams success in the past, no situation is too big for him. Due to knee and hamstring injuries, he no longer has breakaway speed and is no longer a dangerous open field runner. He is still fearless in traffic and is a very good route runner, though he no longer explodes out of breaks. He is an above average run blocker for a wide receiver but has never exhibited the attitude or aggressiveness of Hines Ward, Boldin, or even former teammate, Kevin Walter, to be a difference-maker in the running game.


What do you disagree with?

 

[ObsiWan]

If I was an NFL scout, this would be my report on Andre Johnson in 2014:

He is a big target and a physical receiver who expects to win the ball in traffic. He inspires confidence from his teammates because he has made so many plays in his career and is universally respected throughout the NFL. Because of his experience and how crucial he was to the teams success in the past, no situation is too big for him. Due to knee and hamstring injuries, he no longer has breakaway speed and is no longer a dangerous open field runner. He is still fearless in traffic and is a very good route runner, though he no longer explodes out of breaks. He is an above average run blocker for a wide receiver but has never exhibited the attitude or aggressiveness of Hines Ward, Boldin, or even former teammate, Kevin Walter, to be a difference-maker in the running game.

What do you disagree with?

You left out "still formidable in single coverage and will win most one-on-one battles with even the best of CBs"

if you cut A.J., who else on the roster can you say that about. Hopkins...? ...Maybe. No one else is close. So when we finally get around to having two very solid WRs on this team - something we've been b!tching about for years - now you want to cut one of them without a viable replacement on the roster.

 

[Norg]

gotta sign KJ, and who else? Newton?

No we don't have to sign Newton LOL

KJ u could make a case 4 tho

 

[Norg]

Reed is gone IMO, Mallett, Jamison peanuts if he's here, I think maybe Powe unless Nix is gonna be here, Pickett for certain but all are cheap.

Mallett, Newton, Lewis, KJ, ? Does not look too expensive unless KJ and Mallett go Hollywood.

I think we might have two new CB next year KJ and J joe will both go Hollywood

but BOB will prob want to trade J joe anyway since hes getting payed 2 much and really isn't that good anymore LOL

 

[sandman]

You left out "still formidable in single coverage and will win most one-on-one battles with even the best of CBs"

if you cut A.J., who else on the roster can you say that about. Hopkins...? ...Maybe. No one else is close. So when we finally get around to having two very solid WRs on this team - something we've been b!tching about for years - now you want to cut one of them without a viable replacement on the roster.

I'm originally from SA and a Spurs fan, so I'll readily admit my loyalty bias in my opinion. But sometimes, when you are talking about a player who's career is a body of work that less than 10 players in the history of the game can claim, you give up a little more on the backend than what current market value may give them someplace else. Not in a new deal or an extension, but you honor your agreement out of respect for everything that has been done.

And then when you consider that AJ on the decline at 33 in his 12th season is still putting up 90/1000 numbers that would be the career years for the majority of WR's in the league today, you realize that he is still very productive. Regardless of decline from peak years and regardless of the size of his contract. Not everything boils down to "what have you done for me right this second based on the size of your contract". My opinion of course.

 

[Scooter]

andre's not done.

he'd be a number 1 receiver anywhere but detroit or arizona.

he'll be paid as such.

 

[dalemurphy]

I think we might have two new CB next year KJ and J joe will both go Hollywood

but BOB will prob want to trade J joe anyway since hes getting payed 2 much and really isn't that good anymore LOL

I definitely think JJo is a potential cap casualty... However, he is more likely to be extended/restructured than AJ for two reasons: he is younger, and he didn't recently holdout expressing discontentment about his contract.

 

[infantrycak]

You left out "still formidable in single coverage and will win most one-on-one battles with even the best of CBs"

I think this could have been broadened to include is still pulling lots of coverage and being productive doing so.

I'm originally from SA and a Spurs fan, so I'll readily admit my loyalty bias in my opinion. But sometimes, when you are talking about a player who's career is a body of work that less than 10 players in the history of the game can claim, you give up a little more on the backend than what current market value may give them someplace else. Not in a new deal or an extension, but you honor your agreement out of respect for everything that has been done.

I think this is a valid reason to pay team legacy players somewhat above market (not an open book but something more). The other is for its effect on the team's free agent marketing and player contracting - that players know they won't be cut the instant they start to decline and that signing a contract extension at the team's request isn't going to be their fault a couple years later.

I definitely think JJo is a potential cap casualty... However, he is more likely to be extended/restructured than AJ for two reasons: he is younger, and he didn't recently holdout expressing discontentment about his contract.

The bold leaves out a huge factor in what happened (actually it misstates even the 1st half, but)..."and received the owner's guarantee he wasn't about to be cut." All the wanna be toughest internet GM around talk doesn't eliminate that. I think the odds are higher on a contract extension than AJ not playing on the 2015 Texans.

 

[thunderkyss]

Most people like the flame topped Les Pauls. I like the understated character of the plain tops, especially when you can see the seams of the multiple pieces of wood.

 

[Double Barrel]

You know you could go back and read the first few pages of the thread and realize how many people called this thread ridiculous and basically acted like it should be okay for one of the highest paid players on the team to dog it when they're supposed to be rooting for the team. You come into a thread with that kind of stuff, then you should be prepared to bring some substance to the argument. This is a forum last time I checked, and drive by posts without any facts tend to get disregarded as just that.

I'm not quite sure how your reply connects to what I said...

You and I both know that Mr. McNair adores AJ and will ensure that the man retires a Houston Texan.

Does he "deserve" his paycheck? I suppose that depends on how you define "deserves". On a single year, perhaps not. But based on his history, body of work, importance to this franchise/city, leadership, and yes, even the skills he brings as a veteran receiver, a case can be made that he does deserve it.

Not everything is black and white. Contracts to HoF caliber players are not signed in a vacuum. Without the ability to objectively analyze the big picture and intangibles, there is no common ground for discussion.

This thread was created to say that AJ is "done". What does that even mean? The guy is still a no. 1 receiver. He's still making some amazing catches when given a decent QB that can make the throws. Heck, just that 4th and 3 catch last weekend when he contorted his body backwards was something a lot of WRs would never catch.

And the separation thing is so overrated. Listen to the guys that played the game. Watch highlights week to week. The spectacular and celebrated catches are the ones in traffic. NFL talent is elite, and defenders are not going to give 10 yard separation like college. NFL QBs have very tight windows. We see an occasional blown coverage, but most of the time, the truly mind blowing catches are made with a defender right on the receiver. Just look at that Des Bryant catch against the Texans where J.Jo could not have covered him any better.

Most people like the flame topped Les Pauls. I like the understated character of the plain tops, especially when you can see the seams of the multiple pieces of wood.

Man, that is a beautiful instrument. One day I will save up the funds to buy an LP (Gibson, not the Epiphone ones).

 

[eriadoc]

Man, that is a beautiful instrument. One day I will save up the funds to buy an LP (Gibson, not the Epiphone ones).

Still planning to sell my Gibson LP. Just been too lazy to list it. Not a flame top.

 

[gary]

You have totally wasted not one but two long winded posts of total nonsense about things I've never said once in this thread. Lol!

Here, I'll help you out and do this for you and show you just who has suggested and implied that Bill. :wadepalm:


















Until you can find any posts where I suggested or claimed that AJ was ever dogging it, then you can come question me about criticizing AJ for quitting on the team.

Let the folks who can read do the debating Bill. It has always been something you aren't capable of. You are known for drive by one liner posts generally and stories about your escapades in Treasures. Leave the debating for folks who follow the NFL and aren't wasted at the tailgate every week to understand what is going on.

Go find Hou-Tex or something dude and get lost.

My post was about the Texans wasting AJ's time not AJ dogging it.

 

[dalemurphy]

I think this could have been broadened to include is still pulling lots of coverage and being productive doing so.



I think this is a valid reason to pay team legacy players somewhat above market (not an open book but something more). The other is for its effect on the team's free agent marketing and player contracting - that players know they won't be cut the instant they start to decline and that signing a contract extension at the team's request isn't going to be their fault a couple years later.



The bold leaves out a huge factor in what happened (actually it misstates even the 1st half, but)..."and received the owner's guarantee he wasn't about to be cut." All the wanna be toughest internet GM around talk doesn't eliminate that. I think the odds are higher on a contract extension than AJ not playing on the 2015 Texans.

There is a direct connection between "uncertainty about the future" and discontentment with his contract... His management team knows that he is at risk because he is on the back end of a contract with a high salary to cap hit ratio. He wanted a contract that would guarantee he receive those huge salaries for the next few years. He is right to address it, because his current and future value as a football player does not justify those numbers (which is the reason why he sought a remedy for it). Even Andre knows that he is currently overpaid, based on the market... funny that fans of the team can't see it.

 

[JB]

There is a direct connection between "uncertainty about the future" and discontentment with his contract... His management team knows that he is at risk because he is on the back end of a contract with a high salary to cap hit ratio. He wanted a contract that would guarantee he receive those huge salaries for the next few years. He is right to address it, because his current and future value as a football player does not justify those numbers (which is the reason why he sought a remedy for it). Even Andre knows that he is currently overpaid, based on the market... funny that fans of the team can't see it.

Don't know why you mention the bolded unless it's a need to say you're right and everyone else is wrong. Even his staunchest supporters on here acknowledge he is overpaid this season and next for his performance this season and probably next. Most of the failure of his contract is the Texans own doing