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I Luv The Guy, But Andre Is Done

thunderkyss said:
I don't know, we thought the same thing last year before they put in the kid who threw the ball over the top. Give me a QB who'll put the ball in front of Aj & if he looks slow... then I'll say, "He used to... "
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When was the last time you saw AJ getting that type of separation from any defender?

Yes, of course, it's absolute sacrilege to piss into someone's Kool-aid bucket and objectively evaluate someone's favorite" player. Knock off the "look what he did in the past" attitude.
 
Marcus said:
When was the last time you saw AJ getting that type of separation from any defender?
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There have been several times this year. But if you want a classic fans say **** that isn't real example then last game of last season when the "fan analysis can't throw over 20 yards" Schaub threw the ball 63 yds in the air and overthrew an open AJ.
 
It's interesting that this thread garners so much attention. It should be obvious to everyone that AJ is on the downside of his career, and is understandably less motivated than in the past, but he's far from the biggest issue the team has to deal with right now.

We have no quarterback.

We have the worst defence in the NFL in terms of yards allowed.

'Dre is fine.
 
Marcus said:
When was the last time you saw AJ getting that type of separation from any defender?

Yes, of course, it's absolute sacrilege to piss into someone's Kool-aid bucket and objectively evaluate someone's favorite" player. Knock off the "look what he did in the past" attitude.
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I didn't see him getting wild separation last game, but at the Indy game & the Washington game (the only other two I've been to this year) he got enough separation, still beating guys. Just not getting the ball thrown to him.

Not saying that was the issue yesterday, & I agree he needs to catch the balls that are thrown to him. But we've called him out before & have been wrong every time.

Get someone who will throw the ball over his head & we'll see what's what.
 
markn said:
It's interesting that this thread garners so much attention. It should be obvious to everyone that AJ is on the downside of his career, and is understandably less motivated than in the past, but he's far from the biggest issue the team has to deal with right now.

We have no quarterback.

We have the worst defence in the NFL in terms of yards allowed.

'Dre is fine.
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It is interesting. Especially so since Kubiak was so stoutly defended mediocre season after mediocre season by some of Dre's harshest critics in this thread. Apparently from great to something less than great is worse than a never was.
 
Andre isn't done. The problem is that he's not creating separation as consistently as he used to and we don't have a QB that can consistently get him the ball when he does.

He can still have great value to this franchise as an Anquan Boldin type slot WR and underneath outlet. We just need to find a QB who can get him the ball and an OL that can protect said QB.
 
HOU-TEX said:
We've got a QB that will avoid initial pressure, run around another 3 seconds only to end up taking the sack anyway when he's out of the pocket. Carr-esque

I'm not going to say AJ's done or not, but this offense is a friggin joke. The TE position is obsolete. Foster and now a bit of D-Hop are almost the only source of yardage.

I'm still waiting for someone to question OB about this "game planning" offense.
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According to O'Brien (week after week), they are trying to figure it out. Coaches need to coach better, players need to play better, and he just needs to figure out what's wrong and fix it. Lather, rinse, repeat after every loss.

infantrycak said:
There have been several times this year. But if you want a classic fans say **** that isn't real example then last game of last season when the "fan analysis can't throw over 20 yards" Schaub threw the ball 63 yds in the air and overthrew an open AJ.
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I think fans - especially those that watch on tv - put too much emphasis on "separation".

I challenge all of them to go watch passing highlights of all teams and see how close defenders and receivers are to each other on many completed passes.

Accuracy is HUGE with QBs, simply because there is not as much consistent separation in the NFL.

I honestly perceive folks that use the "separation" mantra to judge playes to be a little dimwitted about professional football. Defenders are too good in the NFL to expect WRs to always be wide freakin' open. There is a reason why good, consistent QBs are coveted in the league more than any other position.

As far as "Andre Is Done", this whole freakin' team is done. They are a .500 team this year with Fitzpatrick under center. I've said that since spring, yet for whatever reason(s), some fans continue to drink the koolaide and have high expectations. AJ saw the writing on the wall, and dude is not a prophet.
 
Double Barrel said:
I think fans - especially those that watch on tv - put too much emphasis on "separation".

I challenge all of them to go watch passing highlights of all teams and see how close defenders and receivers are to each other on many completed passes.

Accuracy is HUGE with QBs, simply because there is not as much consistent separation in the NFL.

I honestly perceive folks that use the "separation" mantra to judge playes to be a little dimwitted about professional football. Defenders are too good in the NFL to expect WRs to always be wide freakin' open. There is a reason why good, consistent QBs are coveted in the league more than any other position.
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100% agreed.
 
Double Barrel said:
I think fans - especially those that watch on tv - put too much emphasis on "separation".

I challenge all of them to go watch passing highlights of all teams and see how close defenders and receivers are to each other on many completed passes.

Accuracy is HUGE with QBs, simply because there is not as much consistent separation in the NFL.

I honestly perceive folks that use the "separation" mantra to judge playes to be a little dimwitted about professional football. Defenders are too good in the NFL to expect WRs to always be wide freakin' open. There is a reason why good, consistent QBs are coveted in the league more than any other position.

As far as "Andre Is Done", this whole freakin' team is done. They are a .500 team this year with Fitzpatrick under center. I've said that since spring, yet for whatever reason(s), some fans continue to drink the koolaide and have high expectations. AJ saw the writing on the wall, and dude is not a prophet.
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This.

Talk of a receivers lack of separation is really something that just kind of goes in one ear and out of the other.
 
Double Barrel said:
According to O'Brien (week after week), they are trying to figure it out. Coaches need to coach better, players need to play better, and he just needs to figure out what's wrong and fix it. Lather, rinse, repeat after every loss.



I think fans - especially those that watch on tv - put too much emphasis on "separation".

I challenge all of them to go watch passing highlights of all teams and see how close defenders and receivers are to each other on many completed passes.

Accuracy is HUGE with QBs, simply because there is not as much consistent separation in the NFL.

I honestly perceive folks that use the "separation" mantra to judge playes to be a little dimwitted about professional football. Defenders are too good in the NFL to expect WRs to always be wide freakin' open. There is a reason why good, consistent QBs are coveted in the league more than any other position.

As far as "Andre Is Done", this whole freakin' team is done. They are a .500 team this year with Fitzpatrick under center. I've said that since spring, yet for whatever reason(s), some fans continue to drink the koolaide and have high expectations. AJ saw the writing on the wall, and dude is not a prophet.
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Defenders are so good that Jeremy Maclin has them beat by 5 yards on a deep ball? That Torrey Smith has Brice McCain beat by 8 yards on a wheel route? Separation has merit. That's why people covet speed in WR's or size to be able to go up and win contested passes when you can't outrun people.

You are dead on about consistent separation. You can't expect guys to be open on every play or you're just being unrealistic. However, there is a reason why guys like Antonio Brown, TY Hilton, Golden Tate, and Jeremy Maclin are at the top of the league in receiving yardage...they get open.

You are also right about accuracy. It is huge for QB's because only your best WR's are going to be able to get themselves open. For the other guys you are going to be making contested passes and need to put the ball in a place where your guy can get it. Just look at Matthew Stafford. Tate gets open all the time and Johnson can win any jump ball. When he's throwing to anyone else he is average because his accuracy isn't helping them win his battles.
 
edwardc5637 said:
Dre is fine we need someone to get him the ball.
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AJ has dropped balls that old AJ caught over and over again. He used to get separation sometimes, but even when he didn't get separation he won the ball. We act like he was always wide open but he wasn't. He attacked the ball and came down with it no matter how many people were around him. That AJ is showing up this year. I don't know if it is mental or physical but I can think of several passes over the year that he just didn't look like the same player. Whether it is the fumble or the drops or not winning the ball AJ is not the same player he was even a year ago.

Mike
 
Texanmike02 said:
AJ has dropped balls that old AJ caught over and over again. He used to get separation sometimes, but even when he didn't get separation he won the ball. We act like he was always wide open but he wasn't. He attacked the ball and came down with it no matter how many people were around him. That AJ is not showing up this year. I don't know if it is mental or physical but I can think of several passes over the year that he just didn't look like the same player. Whether it is the fumble or the drops or not winning the ball AJ is not the same player he was even a year ago.

Mike
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I can agree with this more than the "Andre is done" crap.
 
WolverineFan said:
Defenders are so good that Jeremy Maclin has them beat by 5 yards on a deep ball? That Torrey Smith has Brice McCain beat by 8 yards on a wheel route? Separation has merit. That's why people covet speed in WR's or size to be able to go up and win contested passes when you can't outrun people.

You are dead on about consistent separation. You can't expect guys to be open on every play or you're just being unrealistic. However, there is a reason why guys like Antonio Brown, TY Hilton, Golden Tate, and Jeremy Maclin are at the top of the league in receiving yardage...they get open.

You are also right about accuracy. It is huge for QB's because only your best WR's are going to be able to get themselves open. For the other guys you are going to be making contested passes and need to put the ball in a place where your guy can get it. Just look at Matthew Stafford. Tate gets open all the time and Johnson can win any jump ball. When he's throwing to anyone else he is average because his accuracy isn't helping them win his battles.
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I agree with you. And thank you for noticing my very specifically stated "consistent separation", because there will always be situations where a defense just blew the coverage.
 
Texanmike02 said:
AJ has dropped balls that old AJ caught over and over again. He used to get separation sometimes, but even when he didn't get separation he won the ball. We act like he was always wide open but he wasn't. He attacked the ball and came down with it no matter how many people were around him. That AJ is showing up this year. I don't know if it is mental or physical but I can think of several passes over the year that he just didn't look like the same player. Whether it is the fumble or the drops or not winning the ball AJ is not the same player he was even a year ago.
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Agree, and some of these "new" patterns that require more abrupt cutting seem to tax his injured limitations a bit too much. It's been strange to see him running right into two defenders on a lot of his routes. No so much this as prior games, but not used to seeing that.

Not to belabor his point, but Doc said this would be the eventuality when they snipped his hammy -- added to the other issues.
 
Wonder if Mussop can talk to his friend again and get some info?
"A reliable friend just told me A Johnson is considering retiring. Says he just don't have it anymore. I hope this isn't true." May 2014, remember the storm?
 
badboy said:
Wonder if Mussop can talk to his friend again and get some info?
"A reliable friend just told me A Johnson is considering retiring. Says he just don't have it anymore. I hope this isn't true." May 2014, remember the storm?
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Maybe mussop is Jayson Braddocks "source".
 
Maybe McNair instead of telling AJ he would be on roster next season, told him to go play like I pay you and you will be alright.
 
"Done" is too subjective so my opinion wanders along these lines. On the merits of producing as a WR AJ is not done! Declining? Of course he is but it's not all related to physical ability. We all know the offense stinks with the shoddy QB play AND the inconsistent OL so that may contribute to his mentality. But at a $15-16M a year cap hit, AJ should be done (no contradiction). No way do I see him at that worth at this point with this team. Yes, he has given his all to the Texans but he has made TONS of money in this profession that he chose. A Texans release after the season should accomplish: allow to properly plan for replacement, better plan for salary cap implication and saving face with a respected veteran (he received 2014 salary which is in top 10 WR).
 
DBCooper said:
AJ says he needs to go to an island.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ohnson-i-need-to-go-to-an-island-or-something
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Houston's offense has been predictably bland with Ryan Fitzpatrick under center, and Johnson isn't producing at expected levels. The seven-time Pro Bowl selection had just two receptions for 12 yards in Sunday's loss to the Eagles, prompting cornerback Cary Williams to say Johnson "is not the same guy."

"I don't know if he's happy," Williams said, according to Sports Radio 610. "I'm not sure. I know he had some disputes before the season in a couple years now. But I know Andre Johnson. I know what he's done over his career. Just the attitude. It just wasn't the same."

Johnson didn't exactly fire back when asked about Williams' comments.

"I'm trying to help the team win," Johnson said, according to the Houston Chronicle. "But I only can do what I can do. I can't control everything. I only can control what I can. That's it. I can't block. I can't cover guys. I can't throw the ball. All I can do is run routes and try to get open and catch the ball."

Johnson was increasingly passive during his brief interaction with reporters:

Are you getting open and not receiving the ball?

"I don't know. You watched the game."

Is there light at the end of the tunnel?

"I don't know. We'll see."
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.......


He's done alright. Done with this situation he's in.
 
gary said:
Wasted AJ's career and currently wasting Foster's and Watt's too. Very nice.
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Every player has an option to eventually hit free agency and leave. It is THEIR option. I have no pity for players in this regard. NONE.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
.......


He's done alright. Done with this situation he's in.
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Your post confirms what I saw on the field:

Texanmike02 said:
AJ has dropped balls that old AJ caught over and over again. He used to get separation sometimes, but even when he didn't get separation he won the ball. We act like he was always wide open but he wasn't. He attacked the ball and came down with it no matter how many people were around him. That AJ is showing up this year. I don't know if it is mental or physical but I can think of several passes over the year that he just didn't look like the same player. Whether it is the fumble or the drops or not winning the ball AJ is not the same player he was even a year ago.

Mike
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DX-TEX said:
Every player has an option to eventually hit free agency and leave. It is THEIR option. I have no pity for players in this regard. NONE.
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True, but good players do not expect a coach to stay for so long and lose, poor drafting, not addressing needs, and fans should not either. Made the playoffs then let players go and have done much since.
 
"But I only can do what I can do. I can't control everything. I only can control what I can. That's it. I can't block. I can't cover guys. I can't throw the ball. All I can do is run routes and try to get open and catch the ball."
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If O'Brien needs any final evidence that now is the time to change QB's, it is this.
 
All, these, high price vets should be gone next year and the the franchise will go into rebuilding mode phase 2

Andre trade
Fat ass brown trade maybe we can, get something decent for him
Chris myers trade.... our new franchise rookie qb will be paired with our new rookie center maybe

Newton goodbye
K mart goodbye
Posey goodbye
Griffin goodbye
Foster goodbye
Fitz goodbye
Mallett goodbye

That's what, they should do
 
Norg said:
All, these, high price vets should be gone next year and the the franchise will go into rebuilding mode phase 2

Andre trade
Fat ass brown trade maybe we can, get something decent for him
Chris myers trade.... our new franchise rookie qb will be paired with our new rookie center maybe

Newton goodbye
K mart goodbye
Posey goodbye
Griffin goodbye
Foster goodbye
Fitz goodbye
Mallett goodbye

That's what, they should do
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:thinking: :toropalm:

Sure glad you're not in charge Norg... we'd be looking up at the Oakland Raiders

:worldpeace:
 
gary said:
True, but good players do not expect a coach to stay for so long and lose, poor drafting, not addressing needs, and fans should not either. Made the playoffs then let players go and have done much since.
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True... but he could've been a Lion, a Detroit Lion had they chose to take him & not Charles Rogers. Or if we passed, he could have been a Jet, or a Cowboy.


Winning a Super Bowl isn't as easy as you seem to think, neither is crawling out of the cellar & becoming a perennially good football team.

He could have been "lucky" & fell to the Saints, or not so much & go to the Jags, the Panthers, or the Vikings. That's teams 2 through 9 in that draft. None of them, other than the Saints have won a Super Bowl. None of them can be considered a top tier team. None of them, save the Saints, have done substantially better/worse than the Texans.
 
Andre probably realized that his career is about to end without a championship. So he doesn't give a crap anymore. Just cashing checks now. IMO.
 
JB said:
:thinking: :toropalm:

Sure glad you're not in charge Norg... we'd be looking up at the Oakland Raiders

:worldpeace:
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nope we would be a better team Maybe its the dice u roll really look at indy and St Louis the did major vet turnover and there doing pretty good
 
just heard dre's interview....he's fed up. Probably just upset after that game, but if the team comes out and it's the sos after the bye, he might reach his tipping point.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
just heard dre's interview....he's fed up. Probably just upset after that game, but if the team comes out and it's the sos after the bye, he might reach his tipping point.
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He's like us fans after so many years with this team. We, and AJ, realize that this year's team at 4-5 has a snowball's chance in hell of making the playoffs.

And just like us fans, he's resigned to accept it but is not happy about it.

He probably hates being a Houston Texan like we hate being Texans fans sometimes. It is maddening and depressing. Makes me wish I was still drinking.
 
Double Barrel said:
He's like us fans after so many years with this team. We, and AJ, realize that this year's team at 4-5 has a snowball's chance in hell of making the playoffs.

And just like us fans, he's resigned to accept it but is not happy about it.

He probably hates being a Houston Texan like we hate being Texans fans sometimes. It is maddening and depressing. Makes me wish I was still drinking.
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No worries. I've made up for the drop off in city-wide consumption I promise you.
 
Watching the all 22 film, teams are still rolling coverage to him. He is still drawing doubles so I would have to disagree. Based on those charts of distribution for Fitz, it's more like teams are having it easy only having to cover within 20 yards as most of Fitz passes are 10 yards or less.

If Dre did not care anymore he would not be jawing with defenders or asking the refs for calls. He is still doing both of those. He is probably getting tired of being used so much as a decoy and would like to see the ball more. And less of the stupid WR screens. He is getting beat up on those.
 
He's lost a step for a couple years now but this staff doesn't scheme him open like Kubiak did. If anything, they scheme Hopkins open.

That crossing play that went for really long and the TD are clear examples. In the past, that used to be AJ. Now, he's running more clearing routes that Kevin Walter used to run for him.
 
I have sympathy for the guy, as he will never win a Super Bowl or reach the Hall of Fame.

But also, no one put a gun to his head and forced him to sign those extensions.
 
dtran04 said:
He's lost a step for a couple years now but this staff doesn't scheme him open like Kubiak did. If anything, they scheme Hopkins open.

That crossing play that went for really long and the TD are clear examples. In the past, that used to be AJ. Now, he's running more clearing routes that Kevin Walter used to run for him.
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I want to see another QB before I make these conclusions.
 
The1ApplePie said:
I have sympathy for the guy, as he will never win a Super Bowl or reach the Hall of Fame.

But also, no one put a gun to his head and forced him to sign those extensions.
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This is true. But, also consider that Bob McNair is a great salesman. He has even convinced Houston fans to unconditionally support a team for 13 years that has only had three winning seasons.
 
Double Barrel said:
This is true. But, also consider that Bob McNair is a great salesman. He has even convinced Houston fans to unconditionally support a team for 13 years that has only had three winning seasons.
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We're no better than the Expansion Browns, but he convinces us we are.
:cheese:
 
santo said:
We're no better than the Expansion Browns, but he convinces us we are.
:cheese:
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Yeah, actually we are. They have 2 winning seasons (1 playoff, 0 playoff wins) since 1999 and the remainder losing. We have 3 winning seasons (2 playoffs, 2 playoff wins) since 2002 and another 2 non-losing seasons. It's not huge, but it's better.
 
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