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I Luv The Guy, But Andre Is Done

amazing80 said:
Never said he would. But he is still a top 3 player on this roster. And top 10 wr in the league. To say we need to move on because he is washed up is dumb.
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Again, address his contract figures before you come in here all cocky and waiving your hands in the air about how he is this and that. Please explain how a guy who has 1 TD with 563 yards in 9 games. He is currently 14th in yards and with 1 TD, he is pretty much null and void as far as the end zone goes. You explain to me how that is top 10 right now? And don't' just whine about Fitzpatrick, because we will have either a rookie next season or another journeyman veteran that is slightly better than Fitzpatrick while AJ will be a year older.

Feel free to make your case for why he is a top 10 receiver right now, but your hands are going to be full. Either way, his contract is to high to continue to honor it after this season for the team.
 
Texecutioner said:
He is top 10? Why because you say so? As a fan? Either make a legitimate case that he is with numbers and accomplishments this season over the rest of the league, or just stop already. No one said he was washed up completely, but he isn't a top level WR anymore, and I haven't seen you or any other guy in this thread address his contract for what his production is able to be considering the situation. Address the cap space that his contract takes up, because THAT IS THE ISSUE. Don't just throw out rhetoric about people being baboons and making false claims about what a player is without making some sort of case for why a 33/34 year old receiver is still worth close to 10 mill a season.
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I already said in the smith thread that the AJ contract was a mistake. Mainly because we pushed the dead money to the end of his deal limiting our options with him. His contract had to do more with his accomplishments imo than his value was going to be worth in 2015 and 2016.

Ajs play isn't justified by stats this season especially because his QB is limiting his abilities. The guy still has amazing talent and you see it every now and then when fitz makes a decent play. But fitz isn't consistent enough for Dre to be consistent. I don't know how to instill enough common sense for you to understand it anymore.
 
EllisUnit said:
40% completion, If a blind man throws enough rocks at a bucket he will make a few.

Hopkins was targeted 11 times only caught 6, AJ was targeted 7 times only caught 2.

And there is not doubt AJ is on the downside of his career, BUT O'brien is NOW the play caller, and sucks at it.

AJ had 1400 yards last season, and quite a few long TDs. I would point a finger at the new guy calling plays, and the one throwing the ball before i question our 12 year future HOF WR.
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Especially if one of those buckets is younger, more explosive, and has been working with that blind man since day one, unlike the other bucket.

I am thoroughly appreciative of having had Andre to watch and root for for so long, but I won't let that cloud my judgement that he isn't the same weapon he once was. It's quite simple.

Adding factor after factor to the equation simply to allow your fandom to sleep better at night is all well and good, but a clear evaluation of the issue, it ain't. It's in the footage, Andre isn't running away from guys, he isn't leaping out of the building anymore, and the fact that he's burned out completely of playing for a mediocre team is, while not necessarily his fault, clearly evident.

I don't think anyone is calling for him to be put out to pasture, but he's today much closer to putting on a yellow jacket than he is striking the same kind of fear into DC's than he used to.
 
mussop said:
When he was asking for just that not to long ago weren't you saying just the opposite.
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AJ was a complete moron for how he tried to force the team to trade him. He left the team with no leverage at one of the worst times to attempt to make a trade for him. He should have pushed that issue months before the draft when free agency first opened up and teams were dealing players and making moves. AJ waited to where the team couldn't trade an aging receiver for anything worth it, and no team was going to take on that contract any way. It was a dead deal from the start due to AJ's timing of saying he didn't want to be here anymore. I love the guy, and I didn't criticize him for not wanting to be here anymore, but it was his fault for why the team couldn't deal him. It said that then, and I'll say it now. He is still being paid top dollar though, so I don't want to hear jack about how it's okay for him to dog it like these other fans are okay with. They're walking contradictions any way.
 
EllisUnit said:
Yeah of course it couldn't be our QB who has been hitting just barely above 40% on his passes in the last 3 games.

I don't see how so many of you can be so down on AJ when it is clearly our QB who is failing this team, not AJ. Sure he has lost a step and not as fast as he once was, but he is still one of the top 10 WRs in the NFL.

O'brien said he was going to use AJ in a lot of different ways, so far all i see is uncreative route running, little to no play action double moves allowing for long plays/separation, and a whole lot of predictable screens.

How about we look among all the other crap around him before we call for his head.
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The bold is what really irritates me when folks throw out "facts" that are not facts or true. An easy search shows Fitz vs Eagles 48.2%, vs Tenn 54.3 and Pitts 65.6% or 56 % avg. The six before he avg 65.5%. 56 ain't great but be factual.

I keep defending the guy whom I did not want from beginning but this is beginning to look like politics and mudslinging. Don't like the guy so just say anything and many will accept.

AJ is actually ranked #18 in yards and avg and only 12 yards from #19. Today he had 2 catches for 12 yards. Some is on QB but some is on Johnson.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYards
 
amazing80 said:
I already said in the smith thread that the AJ contract was a mistake. Mainly because we pushed the dead money to the end of his deal limiting our options with him. His contract had to do more with his accomplishments imo than his value was going to be worth in 2015 and 2016.

Ajs play isn't justified by stats this season especially because his QB is limiting his abilities. The guy still has amazing talent and you see it every now and then when fitz makes a decent play. But fitz isn't consistent enough for Dre to be consistent. I don't know how to instill enough common sense for you to understand it anymore.
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The problem is that you aren't making any sense. You keep claiming he is still a top 10 receiver, but you refuse to even attempt to make that case with statistics that can indicate that. You keep whining about the QB and blaming it all on him, but are to bull headed to understand that we'll have the same QB situation next season most likely. It just won't be Fitzpatrick. It will be some rookie or some other average veteran journeyman more than likely. So how in the hell does that justify this organization paying AJ all of that money to sulk and to not want to play with his heart as you put it??? Do you really want the team to be able to rebuild and get stronger or are you more concerned with AJ being overpaid in the future?
 
speedfreek said:
There's no point in debating with you. Your lips are still
steel blue with B.O. koolaid.
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I didn't think you were capable of anything other than blather, but I figured you could try. You don't have to debate with me, but if you knew we were rebuilding, then why are you bitching about a rebuild season where we are 4-5? What did you predict us to be before the season? All I remember you saying was how this team would be doomed forever since they took O.B.
 
I love AJ and will give him more time before I feel like he is done. You have to factor in many things to come to that conclusion. Just because he had a drop or two in the last few games doesn't mean he's done. Maybe done here but not necessarily done as a player.

All I heard when we hired OB is how creative he is on offense. Still waiting for that. Is OB overrated? Is the system overrated and really all Brady? Is it not being run correctly? Is Fitz not capable of getting the max out of it?

What I am saying is that Andre isn't having an Andre year but surely it can be said that there are other factors other than just, he is done! He has more catches and yards than Jimmy Graham, Larry Fitzgjerald, Vincent Jackson and Reggie Wayne who everyone is saying is so important to the Colts. Are all of them done?

Andre might not be the Andre of old but he is still very important to this team. He is still productive and for proof of that look at the stats. I hate stats but they are absolute evidence in proving production.

He has six more catches than the next receiver on this team. That's six more than the guy who after a GOOD game today is being pumped up as our new BEST WR!!!!!!

So my conclusion is that....No Andre is not done. This is just a case of Typical Texans fans knee jerking after a loss. :peek:


If you guys want something real to worry about you should be freaking out about J Joseph's lack of closing speed. He's been getting beat like a drum this year. And he's supposed to be our #1 CB. He has had a way more disappointing year than Andre. And is at a position that really impacts the team more negatively when not played well. :fingergun:
 
He is a great receiver who never even had an above average QB to throw to him.

So I guess the poor guy was done before he started ...
 
He's lost a step, but i think it's more about how the gameplan doesn't feature him as much as it used to and he's not really engaged enough throughout the game. Then when we do go to him, he's out of sync. It's like a shutdown corner. Qb's don't throw at you alot so you have to find ways to stay focused in the game b/c you're mostly out there just going through the motions.
 
I think he is jaded and I completely understand with OB and shitzpatrick at the helm. He needs to go to Seattle or Denver or somewhere he can play all out and win a SB then retire.
 
AJ is not done.

Not the same AJ as before but still better than 85% of all other receivers out there.

Shitztastic needs to be done.
 
I don't know if AJ is done or not but I know that he doesn't look the same playing the game. I don't think his heart is in it though. He doesn't have the same look on his face.

He doesn't win the same fights he used to. I don't know if that is physical limitations or less internal fire but he isn't the same player we know in love.

Mike
 
I feel that he has no love for the game anymore. Plus all the hits he's taken and acrobatic catches he's been forced to make has probably taken a toll on him physically.

I just feel bad that the man never had a solid quarterback. Imagine if he was catching passes from Peyton Manning, Tom Brady or Drew Brees...his stats would be off the charts. Sad thing is the only QB he had that made things happen was Schaub (regardless of what transpired last year).
 
I don't think AJ is done physically, but I think he is feeling really discouraged, and it is affecting his play. Basically Andre's worst nightmare is coming true this season. The Texans are fading out of the playoff picture, and he is stuck with a coach and QB who cannot get him the ball. This is exactly what AJ was worried about in the offseason when he wanted out, he ended up staying, and it's all blowing up in his face now.
 
I don't know about you guys but I refuse to believe a guy who's posted 3000 yards in just the last 2 seasons is done. I refuse to believe a guy who is just 2 years removed from a 1600 yard season is done. Is he the old Andre that was legendary between the 20s? No. He has the same athleticism that he's had the past 2 years and he did fine but then the worst QB in the league comes along and his production drops significantly. Coincidence? I think not.

Schaub and Andre flourished with those 7-10 yard hitch/curl routes and now Andre doesn't even get those throws. You're telling me a quick slant or hitch route to our 6'3 230 lb receiver who literally dwarfs every corner in the league wouldn't work? The plays called for him are just beyond retarded. And all this separation talk is stupid as well. He barely got separation the past 2 years, when you're 6'3 230 you're always open.

And by the way he's clearly not done if defenses are still keying on him as opposed to Hopkins. You think defenses would let Andre be wide open TWICE on drag routes? Even the announcers acknowledged it.
 
There are a lot of people wearing rose colored glasses in this thread.

For whatever reason you can't deny:

- Andre isn't getting separation anymore.
- Andre isn't catching the same balls he used to his drops have been bad this year.
- Andre's demeanor just isn't there you can see it in everything he does.

If he's just playing the year to get released so be it he didn't have leverage and they held him to his contract. Wouldn't be the first player to stink it up just to get traded.
 
Andre Johnson is done giving his all for this piece of crap organization that doesn't give a F about the qb position.
 
cstyle42 said:
Andre Johnson is done giving his all for this piece of crap organization that doesn't give a F about the qb position.
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Then retire AND LET SOMEBODY ELSE PLAY...if this team had someone even close to DeAndre lining up on the other side and the o-line gave Fitz more than a second and a half to throw, this offense could be very potent. Seeing receivers smother covered every play is getting old. Even when the ball is put in AJ's hands, a defender usually knocks it away, and that is when he doesn't flat out drop or fumble it.
 
silvrhand said:
There are a lot of people wearing rose colored glasses in this thread.

For whatever reason you can't deny:

- Andre isn't getting separation anymore.
- Andre isn't catching the same balls he used to his drops have been bad this year.
- Andre's demeanor just isn't there you can see it in everything he does.

If he's just playing the year to get released so be it he didn't have leverage and they held him to his contract. Wouldn't be the first player to stink it up just to get traded.
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Also look at the change in play calling, In kubes system play action was used a lot and was effective. In O'briens scheme it is rarely used and no one bites on Fitzs horrible fakes.
 
cstyle42 said:
Andre Johnson is done giving his all for this piece of crap organization that doesn't give a F about the qb position.
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Also, this team has been in every game, where one or two big plays could have won those games. After Johnson literally fumbled the Colt game away,and you have the nerve to suggest that he has mailed it in, a guy who is being payed millions of dollars to play a game. Do you not see that DeAndre is on a 1500 yard, 10+ TD season. Arian Foster is also producing big in the pass game. Yet it is the QB's fault, the same guy who is making plays to those other guys every game. Great argument.
 
NYTexansFan said:
Also, this team has been in every game, where one or two big plays could have won those games. After Johnson literally fumbled the Colt game away,and you have the nerve to suggest that he has mailed it in, a guy who is being payed millions of dollars to play a game. Do you not see that DeAndre is on a 1500 yard, 10+ TD season. Arian Foster is also producing big in the pass game. Yet it is the QB's fault, the same guy who is making plays to those other guys every game. Great argument.
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That was indeed a huge play in the Colts game, and Andre failed himself and the organization when he fumbled that ball. Too much candor for you, well consider this, after JJ Andre is probably the most highly compensated player on the team and he has to be accountable when he gets that kinda money.
I think we are seeing a version of the amazing shrinking man when it comes to the decline of Andre's skills: his abilities/desire just seems to be wasting away before our very eyes in the few months since the end of the 2013 season.
 
NYTexansFan said:
Then retire AND LET SOMEBODY ELSE PLAY...if this team had someone even close to DeAndre lining up on the other side and the o-line gave Fitz more than a second and a half to throw, this offense could be very potent. Seeing receivers smother covered every play is getting old. Even when the ball is put in AJ's hands, a defender usually knocks it away, and that is when he doesn't flat out drop or fumble it.
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Yeah blame Andre after years and years of bs. This guy has busted his butt and has hall of fame numbers to prove it. That's the issue he has been here for over 10 years and if it ain't one thing with this stupid organization it's another. Andre can retire and they can bring 2 more Andre Johnson's to this careless franchise and the same BS will prevail because this owner hasn't proved through his decisions that he actually wants to win super bowls. This is qbs league more than anything, we had a great oline, we had this and that but we never had a good qb... if we get one by that time the rest of the team will be crap that is Houston football.
 
Funny stuff. This off-season there was a lot of tough talk that the Texans shouldn't give in to Andre and cut him. They were adamant he should play here or retire. Now there is a lot of tough sentiment to cut him.

Andre's prime years were wasted with incremental improvement, build the right way bullcrap. Teams can't take six years to rebuild. By that time their best players are frequently on the downside of their careers and a new rebuild (sorry, reload*) has to start.




*I guess the Texans are reloading. Reloading to their franchise standard .500 performance.
 
Probably already been posted in the thread, so fwiw...

http://houston.cbslocal.com/2014/11...on-texans-andre-johnson-hes-not-the-same-guy/

After spending the afternoon shadowing Johnson, who had only two catches on seven targets for 12 yards Sunday, Williams said something looked different.

Not so much Johnson’s ability, but his attitude.
“I don’t know if he’s happy,” Williams said. “I”m not sure. I know he had some disputes before the season in a couple years now.
“But I know Andre Johnson. I know what he’s done over his career. Just the attitude. It just wasn’t the same.

“He’s a great player. I’m not sure if he was happy or anything like that. But I know that was a different Andre than I know.”
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He was factoring in the Mallet variable most likely. It's hard to see that canon of an arm and not get your projected receiving numbers all inflated.

If Andre is "done" though it's more of a "Done here" thing I believe. He looks to me to be more weary than suffering from diminishing abilities. This team just kills hopes and expectations. It does it very well and AJ has been exposed to it longer than anyone else in that locker room. I imagine it gets old running down the field over and over again for years and rarely having a QB you really can expect to get the ball to you.
 
EllisUnit said:
AJ had 1400 yards last season, O'brien has really limited AJ with his play calling.
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Don't know if I can agree with that. The man is getting targeted, the ball is getting thrown to him. He's just got to catch it. Same reason Schaub stopped throwing it to Keyshawn. Little fkr would get open, just couldn't catch anything.

dalemurphy said:
The issue is that our top three offensive weapons (Foster, AJ, Hopkins) all lack the speed to stretch the defense... AJ PCL injury, age, and the hamstring tear in 2011 robbed him of that part of his game. That is the reason O'Brien continues to create opportunities for D.Johnson... and the reason we will likely see Posey active and involved before the year is over.
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Makes sense, but we've got as much speed on the field as we ever had. When I see our QB consistently overthrowing our WRs, then I'll be looking for an upgrade at WR.

It's like putting Z rated tires on a Prius... That TD to Arian, he had Barwin beat by a mile, yet the ball was severely underthrown to the inside... putting more speed on the field only magnifies the problem we have at QB.
 
Texecutioner said:
Every time Fitz is throwing the ball to AJ past 10 yards he is covered. He just doesn't get separation anymore. I see it every game. My buddy at work has nagged me about it all season long and I denied it as well, but this far into the season now and it is very noticeable. It can't be denied.
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A lot of that is that our QB has no anticipation. He only throws what he sees, then he throws it behind or short. Same thing Andre has had to deal with forever..... if we're not going to use play action, or that naked boot, Andre will rarely get wide open enough for Fitzpatrick to throw him the ball.
 
Luv_ya_blue said:
Probably already been posted in the thread, so fwiw...

http://houston.cbslocal.com/2014/11...on-texans-andre-johnson-hes-not-the-same-guy/
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My speculation (I am talking about what's in someone's head) is that we are seeing what happens when a really good player is not totally focused on being the possible player that he can be. In other words, my guess is that Andre did not work in the off-season like he had before and the result has been an early hamstring injury, a lack of chemistry with the offense, and guy who can't just out athlete dudes without being at the top of his conditioning, etc.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
My speculation (I am talking about what's in someone's head) is that we are seeing what happens when a really good player is not totally focused on being the possible player that he can be. In other words, my guess is that Andre did not work in the off-season like he had before and the result has been an early hamstring injury, a lack of chemistry with the offense, and guy who can't just out athlete dudes without being at the top of his conditioning, etc.
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Agreed.
 
speedfreek said:
That's how I see it.. Your owner says "we are going to reload not
rebuild" then the very first move that B.O. does is scrap everybody.
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We had to reload because the money we already had tied up in players we couldn't cut & the money we already planned to give to players we want to keep.

You're not cutting Arian, Andre, Cushing, & Jjo because you don't have the cap to do it & field a 53 man roster. Anyone thinking that was as delusional as those of us thinking we could win a wild card berth.

The plan was already in motion to extend Watt & I'm sure they're trying to figure out how to sign Kj.

Next year we have about $12M in cap space. The cap should go up ~ $5M because of the Thursday night games. If you cut Aj, Myers, & Jjo that will add $22M, cut Foster & that adds another $4M, Cut Fitzpatrick, that's another $3M, so we could go into the offseason with $46M to work with...

Now you're talking about a rebuild, or close to it. Couldn't come close to that kind of money with what we had to eat for Schaub in 2014 & everything else we've got tied up.
 
We've got a QB that will avoid initial pressure, run around another 3 seconds only to end up taking the sack anyway when he's out of the pocket. Carr-esque

I'm not going to say AJ's done or not, but this offense is a friggin joke. The TE position is obsolete. Foster and now a bit of D-Hop are almost the only source of yardage.

I'm still waiting for someone to question OB about this "game planning" offense.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
My speculation (I am talking about what's in someone's head) is that we are seeing what happens when a really good player is not totally focused on being the possible player that he can be. In other words, my guess is that Andre did not work in the off-season like he had before and the result has been an early hamstring injury, a lack of chemistry with the offense, and guy who can't just out athlete dudes without being at the top of his conditioning, etc.
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If only the Texans had had some sort of indication Dre didn't want to be here. Maybe they could have worked a trade and got some quality in return.
 
Texecutioner said:
Please tell me what other golden QB options they had then?

Schaub?? They traded him to Oakland which was gift from God that even Oakland was dumb enough to take that off of our hands.

Keenum?? The undrafted kid who is still winless.


Yates?? Do I really need to talk about his history?


A ton of other reject free agent QB's on the free agent market? Sure, a few might have been better than Fitz, but who? They're all a crap shoot. If you knew this was a "rebuild" like you say, then why are you crapping all over the organization for rebuilding? What the hell kind of QB did you expect? You claim to realize what is happening, but then complain about it happening.
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It's not a crapshoot when you're talking about Fitzpatrick. Colt McCoy & Mark Sanchez would have been better options. I don't think you realize how bad & how long Fitzpatrick has been bad.

AT the very least, start Mallet. Start him week 2. Fitzpatrick is that bad. We're treating him like a rookie & he's playing like one.
 
thunderkyss said:
It's not a crapshoot when you're talking about Fitzpatrick. Colt McCoy & Mark Sanchez would have been better options. I don't think you realize how bad & how long Fitzpatrick has been bad.

AT the very least, start Mallet. Start him week 2. Fitzpatrick is that bad. We're treating him like a rookie & he's playing like one.
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That's an insult to rookies. Rookies often get better over time - their performance is on an upward slope.

Fitzgerald has been flatlined for years.
 
I would lose heart too if the team I played for knocked me out of the Hall of Fame with two years of Case Keenum and Ryan Fitzpatrick. His shot was small enough as it was, not to mention a logjam ahead of him that includes the Greatest Show on Turf guys, Harrison, Moss, and TO.
 
Luv_ya_blue said:
Probably already been posted in the thread, so fwiw...
Not so much Johnson’s ability, but his attitude.
“I don’t know if he’s happy,” Williams said. “I”m not sure. I know he had some disputes before the season in a couple years now.
“But I know Andre Johnson. I know what he’s done over his career. Just the attitude. It just wasn’t the same.
Click to expand...
http://houston.cbslocal.com/2014/11...on-texans-andre-johnson-hes-not-the-same-guy/
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Did you see him after the DeAndre Hopkins TD? He was on an underneath route, looked like a dig. The Corner is behind him, & the safety is 2~3 yards in front of him. You'd think he could have caught the ball & turned it up for a TD (he was on the one). But the ball goes over his head to Hopkins wide open post.

Andre stops running, but continues to walk off the field. He doesn't turn around to congratulate Hop, he's not happy that we scored a TD (& I believe he used to not care who scored)... but he sulks all the way to our sideline, then when he sees someone there to congratulate him for the play... then he turns around to say good job to the first player he sees.

Without a doubt, I believe Fitzpatrick has better chemistry with Hop.... makes sense, they've been playing/practicing together longer. It's Andre's fault. He should have been in OTAs, he should have been in camp. He should catch the balls that Fitz throws at him.

But he definitely didn't look happy.
 
You know AJ is done when you watch Jeremy Macklin, and wonder out loud, "Damn, AJ could do that once, many years ago!"

I don't really care what the reasons are, whether he's lost a step physically, (which he has), or he doesn't care anymore. He freaking told everyone before the season started that he doesn't want to be here anymore. So why is this so hard to understand?

If there's 5 page thread going on debating if AJ doesn't have it anymore, then nothing else needs to be said, really.

I know it's not a happy day for people wearing the rose colored glasses, but maybe they need to do this :brickwall: so they can see more clearly.
 
Marcus said:
You know AJ is done when you watch Jeremy Macklin, and wonder out loud, "Damn, AJ could do that once, many years ago!"
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I don't know, we thought the same thing last year before they put in the kid who threw the ball over the top. Give me a QB who'll put the ball in front of Aj & if he looks slow... then I'll say, "He used to... "
 
Mr. Texan said:
i talked about this in the game thread. he looks like he doesn't even try anymore. like this attitude of "if i catch it, then i catch it, but if i don't?........fuggit"

on one end i think it's because he knows fitz is trash and knows this team isn't going anywhere.....at least that's why i want to believe to not come to the realization that he might be washed up :(
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There were a few plays where he was walking on the field while play was going on. Just not a whole lot of effort.
 
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