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Adrian Peterson has been indicted

gtexan02 said:
I really believe that anyone who is trying to defend Peterson here, given what we know, needs to take a step back and really think why. Who or what are you really defending. Because I can see zero reasons to be behind Peterson in this case.
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I defend him because of how deep and wide the cultural norm is for what he did. He honestly and truly didn't think he did anything wrong. The sheer number of people who defend these "whoopings" explains why.

He needs corrective action, not punitive action.
 
TD said:
I defend him because of how deep and wide the cultural norm is for what he did. He honestly and truly didn't think he did anything wrong. The sheer number of people who defend these "whoopings" explains why.

He needs corrective action, not punitive action.
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So then you will also defend those who see blacks and Mexicans and Asians and arabs and Indians and everyone who isn't white as less than them, correct? Because the cultural norm to think that way has run deep and wide for hundreds of years. It is learned behavior that is passed down from parents, just like Peterson says to justify his child abuse. Our white ancestors beat and killed people because of skin color, it was wide and far reaching. I'm assuming it's defensible now because it was the cultural norm, correct? I can find plenty of people in this country who will defend that behavior too.
 
TD said:
I defend him because of how deep and wide the cultural norm is for what he did. He honestly and truly didn't think he did anything wrong. The sheer number of people who defend these "whoopings" explains why.

He needs corrective action, not punitive action.
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Societal norms > sub-cultural norms, especially when it pertains to violence against children.

I find it a bit odd that you would say such a thing considering your perspective on a child holding up a sign publicly admitting their wrong.

Using your above stated logic, isn't it just a modern version of a public stockade, something our European culture widely used for a long time?

stockade-211x300.png
 
Pollardized said:
So then you will also defend those who see blacks and Mexicans and Asians and arabs and Indians and everyone who isn't white as less than them, correct? Because the cultural norm to think that way has run deep and wide for hundreds of years. It is learned behavior that is passed down from parents, just like Peterson says to justify his child abuse.
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I defend the right of a bigot to be a bigot yes. And, again, I think education is key to correcting the problem. I have seen first hand how effective that is in the military.

Our white ancestors beat and killed people because of skin color, it was wide and far reaching. I'm assuming it's defensible now because it was the cultural norm, correct? I can find plenty of people in this country who will defend that behavior too.
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Apples and oranges.
 
Double Barrel said:
Societal norms > sub-cultural norms, especially when it pertains to violence against children.

I find it a bit odd that you would say such a thing considering your perspective on a child holding up a sign publicly admitting their wrong.

Using your above stated logic, isn't it just a modern version of a public stockade, something our European culture widely used for a long time
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Why is it odd? Did I say that these parents should be punished for humiliating their child? The point I was trying to make is that one person's abuse is another person's reasonable punishment. I don't like to see knee-jerk responses based on our own point of reference. Adrian gave an extreme spanking that is abuse, BUT the severe spanking is common and it was a spanking....he wasn't punching, burning, etc.... where he clearly would of known he was wrong.

Bottom line is I would like parents educated in both instances.
 
TD said:
Why is it odd? Did I say that these parents should be punished for humiliating their child? The point I was trying to make is that one person's abuse is another person's reasonable punishment. I don't like to see knee-jerk responses based on our own point of reference. Adrian gave an extreme spanking that is abuse, BUT the severe spanking is common and it was a spanking....he wasn't punching, burning, etc.... where he clearly would of known he was wrong.

Bottom line is I would like parents educated in both instances.
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Odd because you specifically stated that you are defending Peterson's actions because of "cultural norms", while simultaneously possessing a perspective that a child holding a shame sign is "parents below abuse their children worse than AP did".

So, let me get this straight: holding a sign in public is worse abuse than beating a 4 year old child with a stick and leaving bruises on the back, open wounds on the legs, and cuts to the scrotum? There's a disconnect in those perspectives that I am unable to reconcile.

I just find it odd to defend one for cultural norms but not the other, which could be defended with a cultural norms argument, as well. Btw, both of your pictures had black children in them, so what if that sign shame punishment is cultural, too? Does that make it relative?
 
Double Barrel said:
Odd because you specifically stated that you are defending Peterson's actions because of "cultural norms", while simultaneously possessing a perspective that a child holding a shame sign is "parents below abuse their children worse than AP did".

So, let me get this straight: holding a sign in public is worse abuse than beating a 4 year old child with a stick and leaving bruises on the back, open wounds on the legs, and cuts to the scrotum? There's a disconnect in those perspectives that I am unable to reconcile.

I just find it odd to defend one for cultural norms but not the other, which could be defended with a cultural norms argument, as well. Btw, both of your pictures had black children in them, so what if that sign shame punishment is cultural, too? Does that make it relative?
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I don't think you get it, so I will try one more time. If you still don't get it, not much I can do.

IMO Adrian abused his son BUT because the manner of his actions is considered normal by a LOT of people (as is evidenced by the large amount of support for it), I would not punish him, but rather educate him.

IMO the humiliating parents have abused their child BUT because their actions are considered normal by a LOT of people (as is evidenced by the large amount of support for it on social media), I would not punish them, but rather educate them.

In neither case am I supporting the actions, but rather NOT supporting throwing the parents under the bus. Child abuse in both instances is subjective whether you want to admit that or not and in both instances I think the parents are doing what they honestly feel is right.

I think what keep missing in nearly every post I make is that Adrian needs corrective action. If I supported what he did, I wouldn't think he needs it.
 
I got spanked as a kid , everyone I knew got a spanking as a kid . We also so got into fights at school to settle things . You can't do that anymore , you'll get suspended . Football practice was brutal and things that went on at practice would get coaches fired today . We got jobs that had hazards and were physical , it was all part of life .

I didn't spank my 4 year old but there comes a time when yours kids ( unless you are lucky ) buck up to their mom or you and you realize they'll be doing this to others if you don't come to an understanding .
 
TD said:
I don't think you get it, so I will try one more time. If you still don't get it, not much I can do.
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We appear to be coming from two completely different perspectives, so perhaps not much more to say than a final respectfully agree to disagree.

TD said:
Child abuse in both instances is subjective whether you want to admit that or not and in both instances I think the parents are doing what they honestly feel is right.
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No, it is subjective for one case. The other is clear with regards to most public sentiment and the law. Just because some sub-culture justifies it means nothing to me. The overwhelming majority of citizens in this country have no moral ambiguities in recognizing it for what it is: child abuse.

I would think the bloody wounds and injured scrotum would make that clear to you, but you seem dead set on embracing the moral relativist mindset with this one.

What next, Shia Law is a "cultural norm" so you defend that dark ages nonsense, as well?

When judges are sentencing people to public shaming, and not sentencing people with Singapore-style lashings, you have entered a gray area for one and a black and white issue for the other.

Not much I can do about that, so we'll just leave it at that. I doubt there is much more either of us could elaborate that would penetrate the thick skull of the other on this one. I mean that in a good way.
 
infantrycak said:
Other than a resignation what did you want to hear?
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Just listening to the various reactions on radio during lunch, and that's the same question that I was thinking about.

People are slamming his delivery. Really? Does presentation account for actual substance?

And not sure what anyone expected from it other than what was said. :spin:
 
Double Barrel said:
When judges are sentencing people to public shaming, and not sentencing people with Singapore-style lashings, you have entered a gray area for one and a black and white issue for the other.
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Judges sentence people to die. We can pussyfoot around but it doesn't get more violent than that. :spin:

I do hope that as a society we come to realize emotional scars can be much worse physical ones....sadly we still have some evolving to do.
 
TD said:
Judges sentence people to die. We can pussyfoot around but it doesn't get more violent than that. .
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Completely irrelevant non sequitur. :rolleyes:

TD said:
I do hope that as a society we come to realize emotional scars can be much worse physical ones....sadly we still have some evolving to do.
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Having experienced a childhood scarred by various forms of abuse, physical abuse/scars come with emotional/psychological scars. They are inseparable. It's not like being beaten with a belt and thrown across a room and getting a concussion doesn't leave something effed up in you mentally.

You think my dad being nice to me the day after he beat me down somehow doesn't leave an emotional scar? I would have taken a public shaming EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK over the living hell I endured as a kid. I do not recall most of my childhood because I never looked back. But I sure remember the abusive parts of it. I'm a better father IN SPITE of it, not because of it. It's a cop out to say it made me a better man, because it would mean that I learned nothing and justify repeating the cycle of abuse.

This stuff is not something I talk about much, and certainly never in a public forum. Let's just say some stories bring memories back. I hate people that abuse kids. HATE. No other word for it. That's the kind of stuff that offends me, not mere words.
 
TD said:
I do hope that as a society we come to realize emotional scars can be much worse physical ones....sadly we still have some evolving to do.
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I'm not sure I agree with you on the specifics of having kids hold a sign for their misconduct but I get where you are coming from. I was switched and belt whipped as a kid and it meant nothing to me but my parents disparagement was far more hurtful. Luckily they took it too far one day and I realized the absurdity of it all.

But having said that, I get DB's point too. The fact is the physical abuse is both emotionally and physically scarring.
 
What's pretty clear is how arrogant the NFL is. There was NOTHING said in this presser that came even close to what Adam Silver did with Sterling and for good reason.

No sponsors are running away (Raddison was maybe the only one to actually pull back a notch)
TV networks are doing whatever they can to help the NFL (CBS, ESPN)
Players aren't threatening a boycott

Silver had an easy decision because of the consequences he was facing if they didn't make a strong move on Sterling...

So they will spin and go around in circles and "make sure they get it right"

That's it, the rest of this is all noise, and a lot of it.
 
toronto said:
What's pretty clear is how arrogant the NFL is. There was NOTHING said in this presser that came even close to what Adam Silver did with Sterling and for good reason.

No sponsors are running away (Raddison was maybe the only one to actually pull back a notch)
TV networks are doing whatever they can to help the NFL (CBS, ESPN)
Players aren't threatening a boycott

Silver had an easy decision because of the consequences he was facing if they didn't make a strong move on Sterling...

So they will spin and go around in circles and "make sure they get it right"

That's it, the rest of this is all noise, and a lot of it.
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So basically you didn't get this:

simpsons-villagers-pitchfork-torches.jpg
 
toronto said:
Want to know why the Ravens had an emergency meeting today? Or why Goodell called this presser?

This is why

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...l-unfolded-baltimore-ravens-roger-goodell-nfl
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:vincepalm:

...Sanders quickly relayed the damning video's play-by-play to team executives in Baltimore..

After the Feb. 15 incident in the casino elevator, Ravens executives -- in particular owner Steve Bisciotti, president Dick Cass and general manager Ozzie Newsome -- began extensive public and private campaigns pushing for leniency for Rice on several fronts: from the judicial system in Atlantic County, where Rice faced assault charges, to commissioner Goodell, who ultimately would decide the number of games Rice would be suspended from this fall, to within their own building, where some were arguing immediately after the incident that Rice should be released.
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They knew. I didn't want to believe it. It's disgusting. They deserve all the crap their getting from this & more.
 
thunderkyss said:
:vincepalm:



They knew. I didn't want to believe it. It's disgusting. They deserve all the crap their getting from this & more.
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Before it's all over, in every one of these disgusting cases, we're going to find out that everybody knew everything about everything that they said they knew nothing about.:cheese:
 
We know more than our parents and our grand parents. We know that yes, we were born and survived, some of us, with mothers who smoked and drank while they were pregnant. We now know they were playing Russian roulette with our bodies. We now know, or should, whipping children, babies really, is at the very least emotionally straining on a child.

I watched the Goodell presser and it was so lacking in responsibility. It was comical. The guy "cracking" during the presser screaming "please don't put me in an elevator" was a direct shot at the shotty behavior in how the NFL has completely follied their was through this. That moment was the only brilliance in the media press conference. Other than "that guy", the acting fell flat.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Before it's all over, in every one of these disgusting cases, we're going to find out that everybody knew everything about everything that they said they knew nothing about.:cheese:
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Yeah, like it used to be back in the day when the press knew what everyone's "heroes" were up to but kept their mouths shut about it and just reported on the stuff on the field.

...the more things change...
 
Peterson will plead no contest to misdemeanor
Peterson will plead no contest to one count of misdemeanor reckless assault. The plea will not include reference to family violence or violence against a minor.

If the agreement is accepted by Judge Kelly Case, Peterson will pay a $2,000 fine, be placed on probation, and perform 80 hours of community service. Technically, the adjudication of the case will be deferred for two years.

The next question becomes whether the NFL will impose a suspension on Peterson above and beyond the eight games he already has missed with pay...
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kingtexan said:
Being able to "cop a plea" after a crime involving a child is a gaping hole in our corrupt system.
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Not sure where there is any hole. There's always furthest stretch of what could be charged in tension with what can be proven and the risk someone gets off scott free instead if you swing for the fence. What's your proposal for eliminating prosecutorial discretion in a practical fashion?
 
So that whole pot in his system violation was swept under the rug, as well? :um:

Man, it's good to be a rich pro athlete.
 
silvrhand said:
Pot smoking is pretty much going the way of alcohol beating that with a stick isn't going to win you votes..
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Overall, yeah.

But in a Montgomery County court? Progress has not permeated that place, yet. My niece just went through a lengthy process after being busted with less than a joint, and she certainly went through a heck of a lot more than Peterson.

Then again, she didn't have Rusty Hardin has her lawyer.
 
The1ApplePie said:
Yeah, but it is still screwing up your bail, which should get you tossed in the slammer.
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yep. That was what I was thinking about. I don't have a problem with pot smoking, but Peterson violated his bail and I was curious how that turned out.
 
Brian Murphy ‏@murphPPress
Adrian Peterson's sealed case file has vanished from Montgomery County court clerk site. Goodell's gonna have to do some due, due diligence
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Now that's how good attorneys work. #behindthescenes
 
infantrycak said:
Not sure where there is any hole. There's always furthest stretch of what could be charged in tension with what can be proven and the risk someone gets off scott free instead if you swing for the fence. What's your proposal for eliminating prosecutorial discretion in a practical fashion?
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No proposal as it relates to children.

You are guilty or you are innocent.
 
...
Adam SchefterVerified account
‏@AdamSchefter Adrian Peterson was notified today that he has been suspended without pay for at least the remainder of the 2014 NFL season.

5:43 AM - 18 Nov 2014
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I know the extent of his "disciplining" was a bit over the top. The thing that has irked me as much since this crap began was the amount of kids with different mothers he has. It's ridiculous! You think he's going to act as the father to all of them? Doubtful. Kids growing up without fathers because the father's an asshat pisses me off.

Sorry for the rant. Wear a friggin helmet or quit dickin every chick you see
 
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