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Should the Redskins change their name?

Should the Washington Redskins change their name?

  • Yes

    Votes: 34 29.1%
  • No

    Votes: 83 70.9%

  • Total voters
    117
Haven't read all 18 pages so if this has been addressed earlier, sorry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma

The state's name is derived from the Choctaw words okla and humma, meaning "red people".

Are we renaming Oklahoma, if so I have some choice suggestions.


Big picture: I don't have strong feelings either way, I would probably change the name if I owned the team but I think it is BS when the government gets involved.
 
Well while we are being politically correct, shouldn't we change the name of the Apache Helicopter, or Tomahawk missiles? I mean isn't that stereotyping the Natives as War Like savages? Aren't these also slurs?
 
All ready been taken. Back in the '20s, there was already a Washington Senators NFL team. Wasn't a name that had a disgusting connotation then.........but would definitely be one now.

Huh. Learn something new every day... I think in case of name change a government/patriotic theme is the best way to go.
 
I'm not a big western fan guy, but I'll take your word for it and I'll say for the third time that I just have never heard it used like that. I don't think that's all that unusual either. Just keep in mind that I don't have a history of making sheet up so you'll have to just take my word for it as well. I'm not pimping the name and not taking sides, but it seems one side of this debate sure is trying hard to make the Redskins name sound mean-spirited all of a sudden. I've been posting here for a decade and this is the first time I've seen this come up as an issue with some of you guys...so why so pantiesinawaddy now? Is this just a way to say fu to Dan Snyder or have you guys just kept a hat on it since you were too emotional (I bet Dick Vermeil had a breakdown expressing his thoughts on this) to comment about it before the story 'came out of the closet' so to speak?

That explains it right there. No biggie.
And it wasn't that I didn't believe you, I was just providing someplace you could research if you were so inclined.

As far as the term "redskin" is concerned it's never really been complimentary, no more than Jap or Chink or Kraut has been. Its not exactly cussin' but those are terms good manners (as PC used to be known) dictated one didn't use in polite conversation.
 
You know, westerns are probably the only place most Americans might hear Redskin used in a negative way. I imagine most Americans don't live in close proximity to Native American reservations so for most of us "The Washington Redskins" is probably the only use of the word we're familiar with.

Even in an old western I can watch that and not connect with it because I understand the era being portrayed and I know that that's over a hundred years ago. How people speak in period films doesn't really mean much to me.

I can find examples of people using "******", "spic", "******", and "chink" (for example) in an abusive manner (in fact for all but the first one I have a hard time finding anyone using them for anything other than in an abusive manner) but it's not easy to find examples of anyone using Redskin in an abusive manner. I find plenty of Native Americans (now) saying that it's offensive but examples of people being called "Redskin" are rare.

I think it's much ado about nothing but if it makes somebody somewhere feel better then by all means the Washington franchise should make the change, sell all new gear to their fans, and put it behind them while drinking Champagne and counting all the new money they're going to make.

Interesting that "The N word" along with a common word used to describe homosexuals, "The F word" are both blocked but apparently "spic" and "chink" are fair game.
 
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/130696/inside-slant-presumed-redskins-bonanza
Why would a capitalist such as Washington Redskins owner Dan Snyder oppose changing his team's name when he could make a ton of money from merchandise sales adorned with the new brand?

The quick answer: Because he probably can't, at least not in the short term. A poke through the NFL's labyrinth of financial rules and interviews with experts revealed two important factors. First, a chunk of that revenue would be shared with 30 other teams. Second, the immediate costs connected with a rebrand could extend into "the millions," according to one analyst.

Let's consider each issue separately...
 
You know, I'd be surprised if the league couldn't chip in to offset the expense of changing the name. That's particularly true if the league itself wanted it changed. Since the expectation is that they'll all share any surge in sales brought on by a name/colors change it's only fair that they all kick in a little bit for the upfront expenses that would involve.
 
Watch some old 40s/50s/60s era westerns; Redskin in a western had the same nasty, negative connotation and vibe that Jap or Kraut (sp?) did in WWI/WWII movies. Heard it ALL the time in those flicks.

The WORD was not nasty, the people were nasty AND our enemies at that time! You will notice that most of the offensive words are just contractions of the longer scientific names. Is it nasty and offensive to say hot dog instead of frankfurter? No! it's just a convenience. Any nastiness comes from intentionally directing UNTRUE characteristics on the group, rather than focusing on the nastiness of individuals in that group.

But the team names were a counterpoint to those generalizations and I challenge anybody to find a team who intentionally chooses something they despise for a team name.
 
The WORD was not nasty, the people were nasty AND our enemies at that time!

I challenge anybody to find a team who intentionally chooses something they despise for a team name.

Yes, no one ever despises their "nasty" enemies.

Just like those "nasty" enemy Redskins, Pirates and Buccaneers were never despised and were looked up to by everyone for being such honorable men. I am sure the people in the Carolinas also love and look forward to hurricanes so much that they named their NHL team after that enjoyable weather phenomenon.

Also I am quite sure no one in New Jersey despises the Devil since he is such an honorable creature. Now technically the team was named after the legendary "New Jersey Devil" who supposedly terrorized the residents of New Jersey in the 1800's however must have won the affection of the citizens there since they named their NHL team after him.

:wadepalm:
 
Fugitive Agrees to Be Photographed for Newspaper’s Redskins Article, Gets Caught

close.jpg

Bloomsburg University student Jacob (“Jake”) Close, 25, gave his opinion about the Redskins name controversy to the Bloomsburg (PA) Press Enterprise on June 30. (“I think they should keep the same name, but change the mascot to a potato,” he said.) Close agreed to be photographed for the paper’s feature, which I’m guessing he now regrets.

The Mass Comm student was wanted by Ithaca police for bail jumping in a years-old drug/DUI-related case. “Campus police had been looking for Close for more than a month after being notified by Ithaca City Police in late May,” the Press Enterprise reports. A campus cop saw Close’s picture in the “Your Opinion” column last Monday and staked out the student’s blue Honda. The officer got his man on Sunday afternoon.

I was thinking it was Diane or Dale. :kitten:
 
Yes, no one ever despises their "nasty" enemies.

Just like those "nasty" enemy Redskins, Pirates and Buccaneers were never despised and were looked up to by everyone for being such honorable men. I am sure the people in the Carolinas also love and look forward to hurricanes so much that they named their NHL team after that enjoyable weather phenomenon.

Also I am quite sure no one in New Jersey despises the Devil since he is such an honorable creature. Now technically the team was named after the legendary "New Jersey Devil" who supposedly terrorized the residents of New Jersey in the 1800's however must have won the affection of the citizens there since they named their NHL team after him.

:wadepalm:

Did anyone name a team "Pirates" or "Buccaneers" when those two groups were making the high seas a dangerous place? Now lets just leave the current Somali Pirates situation out of this and talk about the Pirates and Buccaneers that are the actual focus of those names. Those names were used long after anyone with first hand knowledge of Pirates and Buccaneers had ceased to draw breath and named after a romanticized idea of what they were like. That can almost be said about the Redskins. The name is what it is but the symbolism associated with the Washington Redskins clearly is not disparaging or negative. Misguided perhaps but there is no drunken "injun" on the side of the helmet and they don't reenact raids with pretend settlers being killed at halftime. They're trying to work the whole "Noble Indian" angle. Like I said maybe misguided in this day and age but certainly not disparaging in intent or practice.

They should just change it anyway to put an end to all the "sand-in-the-vagina crybaby caterwauling". That or change the mascot to a red potato. I'd give anything to see that. Put a big red potato on the side of the helmet with a press release telling everyone protesting to now STFU.
 
I like his mascot idea. Keep calling them the Redskins but change their mascot to a red potato? That's the kind of outside the box thinking that's needed here. Lets see somebody get upset about the Washington Redskins name when it's clearly meant to describe a root vegetable.

Problem solved.
Or maybe a Reddish (oops, I meant Radash).
 
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 1m
Washington Post Editorial Board announced today it will not use the word "Redskins" in its editorials anymore.
 
Mike Carey said no to Redskins

A former NFL referee told The Washington Post that he requested not to work home or away games for the Washington Redskins due to the team's controversial nickname.

Mike Carey, who retired after the 2013 season following 24 years in the league, says he requested off Washington's games beginning with the 2006 season because it became clear to him that "something disrespectful" was happening and being on the field "probably (was) not the best thing for me."

"Human beings take social stances," Carey, the first African-American referee to work a Super Bowl, told the newspaper. "And if you're respectful of all human beings, you have to decide what you're going to do and why you're going to do it.

"In America we've learned that respect is the most important thing that you have. I learned it from my parents, my schools, from my faith. And when you learn there's something that might not be as respectful as you like, when you come to terms with it, you have to do something about it."

"I know that if a team had a derogatory name for African-Americans, I would help those who helped extinguish that name. I have quite a few friends who are Native Americans. And even if I didn't have Native American friends, the name of the team is disrespectful."

Full story

nfl_g_carey_b1_600x400.jpg
 
What in the world does that have to do with Yvette's comment or this topic in general?[/QUOTE

She said "I'm Native American. Call me a skin to my face and its on." I expanded on that to identify as a Native Texan with my loyalty to my STATE and a desire to return to National Sovereignty! Seemed like a natural expansion of her post to me. But I did digress from the PC nature of the thread. We all HAVE TO HATE Redskins as a name to be PC. But nobody ever confused me with being PC.
 
She said she was a native American. I expanded on that to identify as a Native Texan with my loyalty to my STATE and a desire to return to National Sovereignty! Seemed like a natural expansion of her post to me.

Her point was is that she is NA and don't call her redskin to her face because it's offensive to her.

Now if you would have said, I am a Native Texan so don't call me dumbass redneck Texan because that would be offensive ... that would go with this discussion.
 
My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw a Native American at 31 Flavors last night. Does that make me Indian?

I had a direct ancestor who married an Indian Woman from a civilized Chickasaw tribe in 1725. Unfortunately, I don't have a name for my 13th great grandmother who makes me 1/2064th Native American.
 
What in the world does that have to do with Yvette's comment or this topic in general?[/QUOTE

She said "I'm Native American. Call me a skin to my face and its on." I expanded on that to identify as a Native Texan with my loyalty to my STATE and a desire to return to National Sovereignty! Seemed like a natural expansion of her post to me. But I did digress from the PC nature of the thread. We all HAVE TO HATE Redskins as a name to be PC. But nobody ever confused me with being PC.

Just curious - does your family history go back to Texas independence or nationhood?
 
I had a direct ancestor who married an Indian Woman from a civilized Chickasaw tribe in 1725. Unfortunately, I don't have a name for my 13th great grandmother who makes me 1/2064th Native American.

I am a Native Texan also, my ancestors migrated to Texas in 1840. My great grandfather was a cattle rancher in central Texas and married a Cherokee woman who was my great grandmother. I think I even posted pictures of them in this thread somewhere. Regardless, that has little to do with this topic.

I remember being offended in the mid 90's when the Confederate flag became offensive and it started being demonized. I grew up being proud of being a decedent of Texas Confederate veterans and was always fascinated with that war. I was even a re-enactor for a few years and had the Confederate flag on many things like my car, etc. The thought that it was offensive to black people never crossed my mind. Anyway, come to find out many black people see that flag and think of the Klan, etc. I had to learn to respect that back then.

Times change. My grandmother just passed away a few months ago at the age of 92. To the day she died she called black people "niggras". That word at one time was acceptable with her generation. There is no denying that our generation shouldn't be using that word today.

Yvette is telling you as a Native American that the word redskin is a slur and shouldn't be used. Just learn to respect that, the way I had to learn to respect that many black people don't like the Confederate flag. I could have insisted that black people shouldn't be offended by the Confederate flag however that wouldn't change the fact that it still offends them.
 
Just curious - does your family history go back to Texas independence or nationhood?

Yes. I have ties to the Republic of Texas as well as the founding of the United States. My earliest "immigrant" arrived in 1630, had a child born in Swansea in 1635, and was killed by "Peaceful" Indians in Delaware bay in 1644. My last "Immigrant" arrived in 1830 from Ireland.
 
Yes. I have ties to the Republic of Texas as well as the founding of the United States. My earliest "immigrant" arrived in 1630, had a child born in Swansea in 1635, and was killed by "Peaceful" Indians in Delaware bay in 1644. My last "Immigrant" arrived in 1830 from Ireland.

I asked about Texas not the US but ok. Part of that question was I knew Hookem and I (and I believe double barrel) have ties back that far actually pre-republic.

What's with the quotation mark immigrants?
 
Just curious - does your family history go back to Texas independence or nationhood?

They migrated to Texas in 1840, so during nationhood. They missed the war by 4 years. They came from Overton County, TN.

They were not in Texas for the War of Independence however many of them were horse soldiers with the Williamson County Grays during the Civil War. I also have a great great uncle that was a Colonel in the 5th Texas. He is on the Texas Gettysburg Monument at the Round Tops.

As I mentioned in the post above, it's why I grew up such a big Civil War buff. I always hated the fact that Texas in general today has really distanced itself from that war mainly due to PC stuff. The Texas Brigade had a lot of heroic moments during that war. They were Lee's favorite brigade. He called them the "Son's of the Alamo" and always bragged how the Texans would never run.

Edit: Sorry, thought that question was for me ;)
 
I am more interested in how folks treat me not what they call me. I don't know of anyone when speaking of the Washington Redskins are being disrespectful. They are identifying a team or player. Yes racism exists and there are incidents/occurances (sp) or whatever but we all need to lighten up just a bit.
 
They migrated to Texas in 1840, so during nationhood. They missed the war by 4 years. They came from Overton County, TN.

They were not in Texas for the War of Independence however many of them were horse soldiers with the Williamson County Grays during the Civil War. I also have a great great uncle that was a Colonel in the 5th Texas. He is on the Texas Gettysburg Monument at the Round Tops.

As I mentioned in the post above, it's why I grew up such a big Civil War buff. I always hated the fact that Texas in general today has really distanced itself from that war mainly due to PC stuff. The Texas Brigade had a lot of heroic moments during that war. They were Lee's favorite brigade. He called them the "Son's of the Alamo" and always bragged how the Texans would never run.

Edit: Sorry, thought that question was for me ;)

Very cool. Love your knowledge of the details of the Texas Civil War units. Lee sure did appreciate them.

Thanks for clarifying even if the question wasn't directed to you. My family got here about 10 years prior to yours.

Lots of native Texans out there. In HS a teacher explored how fat back families went. There were only 2 of us with families past grandparents here. Kind of gives more meaning to the native part. (Which is not to take away from any Texan. We all got here as soon as we could. )
 
Very cool. Love your knowledge of the details of the Texas Civil War units. Lee sure did appreciate them.

Thanks for clarifying even if the question wasn't directed to you. My family got here about 10 years prior to yours.

Lots of native Texans out there. In HS a teacher explored how fat back families went. There were only 2 of us with families past grandparents here. Kind of gives more meaning to the native part. (Which is not to take away from any Texan. We all got here as soon as we could. )
not sure when my family came to US or Texas but we sure ate plenty of fatback but we called it salt pork.
 
I asked about Texas not the US but ok. Part of that question was I knew Hookem and I (and I believe double barrel) have ties back that far actually pre-republic.

What's with the quotation mark immigrants?

Just a way to distinguish the immigrants to America from the native born ancestors. I admit using the quotation marks is a bit redundant, but I included them for emphasis, not to insert uncertainty.

I actually have a recollection of an ancestor in Orange (Madisonville at the time) in 1840, but I cannot find the documentation. It is possible that my ancestors arrived earlier, but a marriage license dated January 1840 is the oldest DOCUMENTED evidence I have. My relatives were early settlers of Rusk County and unfortunately heavily involved in one of the worst disasters in state history, the New London School explosion of 1937. I have inherited part of the old family farm about 2 miles east of the school.
 
I asked about Texas not the US but ok. Part of that question was I knew Hookem and I (and I believe double barrel) have ties back that far actually pre-republic.

yep. I've got relatives that fought at both the Alamo and San Jacinto. Their names are memorialized at both sites.

My direct lineage is all over the place, as my kin on my father's side appeared to constantly be moving for a few generations. My dad researched and found a great grandfather had arrived in Virginia before the Revolutionary War, and he ended up fighting in the war for the state militia. He missed being massacred by the British when he mustered out of his unit a month before the attack.
 
yep. I've got relatives that fought at both the Alamo and San Jacinto. Their names are memorialized at both sites.

My direct lineage is all over the place, as my kin on my father's side appeared to constantly be moving for a few generations. My dad researched and found a great grandfather had arrived in Virginia before the Revolutionary War, and he ended up fighting in the war for the state militia. He missed being massacred by the British when he mustered out of his unit a month before the attack.

My family came to Tejas in 1832, several fought in San Jacinto. Grandfather fought with Sam Houston under Andrew Jackson in TN. Fours sons at San Jacinto, also memoralized and all have gravestones from State of Texas. Also had a Grandfather who was a Texas Ranger. Sons were first settlers in Lavaca, Caldwell, Hays, Guadalupe and Frio counties. First settlers in Wimberly, built a mill that made all the furniture for first state capitol. I have an Uncle who gave a first hand account of Battle of San Jacinto and the capture of Santa Anna. I'm a 7th Gen Texan (Texian). There are now 10 generations of Texans in Family. Family roots trace back to St James River 1607.

ACCOUNT OF THE BATTLE OF SAN JACINTO

http://books.google.com/books?id=Bh...ington winters recount of san jacinto&f=false
 
No it isn't. The Comanche Nation is on record as to that fact. Further, if you had any cultural roots with the tribe, you'd know better than to speak for them (me) without permission from tribal elders.

pssst yeah right, you are not Comanche....

So self respecting Comanche would EVER be a Tack fan....

nice try...


Oh and I asked the elders, they said it's cool....
 
Bull, I'm inviting you to join me at the Comanche Nation Fair in September. I'd like to introduce you to the Tribal Chairman (my cousin) and the Elders group, so they can introduce you to your heritage and culture :)
 
Bull, I'm inviting you to join me at the Comanche Nation Fair in September. I'd like to introduce you to the Tribal Chairman (my cousin) and the Elders group, so they can introduce you to your heritage and culture :)

I hope he can make it and call them 'redskins' to their faces. Y'know, since he apparently believes that it's not disparaging and it's cool and all.
 
It's sad that people are more worried about the name of a football than the living conditions on some of the reservations. It looks like Native American and everyone else would be more worried about the high alcoholism rates, high drop out rates, & high teen pregnancy rates among Native Americans on reservations. My great grandmother on my dad's side is Blackfoot and my great grandmother on my mother's side is Cherokee and French and I don't recall either of them have a problem with the Washington Redskins' name while they where alive. My grandfather that is half Blackfoot and my grandmother that part Cherokee didn't have a problem with it either. To me the Cleveland Indians mascot and Atalanta Braves mascot or more offensive than the Redskins name, or what about the state name Oklahoma. Oklahoma is based on Choctaw Indian words which translate as red people (okla meaning "people" and humma meaning "red"). Isn't that basically the same thing as redskin? Where's the outrage over that? I can't recall ever hearing anyone use redskin a derogatory term either.
 
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