Tell us how you feel about Marvin Lewis as a HC and Mike Brown as an owner. I mean Mike Brown makes McNair look like a successful owner.
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Andy Dalton contract extension
- Thread starter BigBull17
- Start date
Tell us how you feel about Marvin Lewis as a HC and Mike Brown as an owner. I mean Mike Brown makes McNair look like a successful owner.
Exascor
Veteran
My only gripe is that some people are associating the Bengals current success with the QB. That QB has a pedestrian 80s QB rating. His teams have had top talent on offense and top defenses each year. His playoff performances have...sucked.
-How great would those Bengals teams been with a really good QB?
-How much better would any team with lesser talent have been with Dalton on it?
-How many wins did Dalton really impact?
Dalton may end up being great but hasn't shown signs of that yet. He is currently no better than middle of the pack. The contract seems fair value but I wouldn't be thrilled as a Bengals fan. This is like the Texans extending Schaub to me. Mediocrity will most likely be the new norm unless the stars align for the Bengals. Better than the old cellar dwelling norm I suppose.
-How great would those Bengals teams been with a really good QB?
-How much better would any team with lesser talent have been with Dalton on it?
-How many wins did Dalton really impact?
Dalton may end up being great but hasn't shown signs of that yet. He is currently no better than middle of the pack. The contract seems fair value but I wouldn't be thrilled as a Bengals fan. This is like the Texans extending Schaub to me. Mediocrity will most likely be the new norm unless the stars align for the Bengals. Better than the old cellar dwelling norm I suppose.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
I've seen very few (bordering on zero) people associating the Bengals current success with Dalton, beyond the fact that he's competent enough not to torpedo it (at least in the regular season). If anything those expressing a differing opinion have him as a weak link that shouldn't have been extended, and should be replaced if possible.
Well, the year before they drafted him they went 4-12 with the same coach and Carlson Palmer at QB. They went 9-7 his rookie year and have improved their record every season since he got there.
And you're saying he had nothing to do with it??
ArmyBengal
Retired Army Medical NCO
To start, Mike Brown has been one of the worst owners in the NFL forever. However, about 4 seasons ago, he started relinquishing some control with drafting, contracts, and the general management of the team to others. Most thought that since most of those people are family members, it would be much of the same, but it hasn't. The Bengals have been one of the more successful teams when it comes to the draft and 3 straight trips to the playoffs (regardless of outcome) would quantify that thought.
Marvin Lewis has to be the luckiest guy on the face of the coaching earth. No where else in the league would a guy with such an overall record and postseason record still have a job. That being said, I think he would make a great GM and some of those duties, while hardly mentioned, have been given to him. I would have liked to have seen him move into an official GM role and been able to keep Zimmer (took over as Vikings HC) as our own head coach. Such is life.
In regards to Dalton, you can't simply dismiss him. That's just being silly. Again, look at what he has accomplished to this point. If he's simply thowing it to Green and letting him make plays or handing it off and let them run, how come Detroit can't get to the playoffs with Megatron and their running game. The Bengals running game has been one of the worst the past few years, so that's not an argument. That same "stacked" team has had crazy letdowns in the postseason and I think it's just easy to blame it all on the QB.
How great would any team be if it had a better QB ?? Wouldn't Adrian Peterson just love to have a competent QB to take some pressure off him ?? Would either Joe Flacco or Ben Roethlisberger had the early success they did if they didn't walk into a QB starting spot with the two top defenses in the league ?? Ben sports one of the worst (if not THE worst) QB rating from a Super Bowl winning QB in history.
Dalton has shown plenty of signs of being great and if you think otherwise, you simply aren't watching. What he has shown plenty of as well is inconsistency. THAT and decision making are his biggest issues. So again, i'm not in awe of him, but i'm not going to simply say that since he's 0-3 in the playoffs that he "can't" do it. That's a poor argument. So was Peyton Manning and Matt Ryan before they won one.
What I am thrilled about as a Bengals fan is that Dalton's concerns aren't as bad as some want to portray, they have an above average roster, and if he can't find postseason success, they can walk away without concern. Oh, and the contract doesn't handcuff them from resigning guys like Green and Burfict sooner rather than later.
Fans make me laugh when I hear them make a flip comment like, "He sucks and needs to be replaced". Really ?? That's sounds really easy, but in fact that might one of the more difficult things for a team to do. You all know the reality of that as you are talking about Fitzpatrick as a starter and possibly looking at a Mallett trade. Mallett ?? Just what you need, a big strong armed dolt. I'd be rooting for Savage.
You need not look any further than what Dalton inherited and what he has done since then to understand why the team felt strongly enough to keep him around for at least a couple more seasons. I understand why people say those things though. They simply aren't as informed as some others closer to the situation.
I can't really account for how I think Clowney is going to do because I don't know much about the Texans schemes and so forth. Knowing players is barely scratching the surface.
Many think Dalton will fail this year because Gruden left as the OC. The same Jay Gruden who had Dalton throwing the ball 50+ times a game. When does that work ?? The same Jay Gruden who abandoned the running game because and I quote, "I figured the defense would figure out what we were doing". The same Jay Gruden who gameplanned an entire first half of a playoff game against you guys, but totally ignoring AJ Green and letting Jermaine Gresham shoulder the load.
There's simply more to it than people know. I say that with the firm understanding that Dalton still has much to improve on. Should he actually do that, what would a fan think the upside is ?? Many teams would rather be in that situation than trying to find a QB or ANY QB for that matter.
Trent Dilfer was a Super Bowl winning QB.
Marvin Lewis has to be the luckiest guy on the face of the coaching earth. No where else in the league would a guy with such an overall record and postseason record still have a job. That being said, I think he would make a great GM and some of those duties, while hardly mentioned, have been given to him. I would have liked to have seen him move into an official GM role and been able to keep Zimmer (took over as Vikings HC) as our own head coach. Such is life.
In regards to Dalton, you can't simply dismiss him. That's just being silly. Again, look at what he has accomplished to this point. If he's simply thowing it to Green and letting him make plays or handing it off and let them run, how come Detroit can't get to the playoffs with Megatron and their running game. The Bengals running game has been one of the worst the past few years, so that's not an argument. That same "stacked" team has had crazy letdowns in the postseason and I think it's just easy to blame it all on the QB.
How great would any team be if it had a better QB ?? Wouldn't Adrian Peterson just love to have a competent QB to take some pressure off him ?? Would either Joe Flacco or Ben Roethlisberger had the early success they did if they didn't walk into a QB starting spot with the two top defenses in the league ?? Ben sports one of the worst (if not THE worst) QB rating from a Super Bowl winning QB in history.
Dalton has shown plenty of signs of being great and if you think otherwise, you simply aren't watching. What he has shown plenty of as well is inconsistency. THAT and decision making are his biggest issues. So again, i'm not in awe of him, but i'm not going to simply say that since he's 0-3 in the playoffs that he "can't" do it. That's a poor argument. So was Peyton Manning and Matt Ryan before they won one.
What I am thrilled about as a Bengals fan is that Dalton's concerns aren't as bad as some want to portray, they have an above average roster, and if he can't find postseason success, they can walk away without concern. Oh, and the contract doesn't handcuff them from resigning guys like Green and Burfict sooner rather than later.
Fans make me laugh when I hear them make a flip comment like, "He sucks and needs to be replaced". Really ?? That's sounds really easy, but in fact that might one of the more difficult things for a team to do. You all know the reality of that as you are talking about Fitzpatrick as a starter and possibly looking at a Mallett trade. Mallett ?? Just what you need, a big strong armed dolt. I'd be rooting for Savage.
You need not look any further than what Dalton inherited and what he has done since then to understand why the team felt strongly enough to keep him around for at least a couple more seasons. I understand why people say those things though. They simply aren't as informed as some others closer to the situation.
I can't really account for how I think Clowney is going to do because I don't know much about the Texans schemes and so forth. Knowing players is barely scratching the surface.
Many think Dalton will fail this year because Gruden left as the OC. The same Jay Gruden who had Dalton throwing the ball 50+ times a game. When does that work ?? The same Jay Gruden who abandoned the running game because and I quote, "I figured the defense would figure out what we were doing". The same Jay Gruden who gameplanned an entire first half of a playoff game against you guys, but totally ignoring AJ Green and letting Jermaine Gresham shoulder the load.
There's simply more to it than people know. I say that with the firm understanding that Dalton still has much to improve on. Should he actually do that, what would a fan think the upside is ?? Many teams would rather be in that situation than trying to find a QB or ANY QB for that matter.
Trent Dilfer was a Super Bowl winning QB.
Exascor
Veteran
First...Dalton had no special qualities. He's just average at everything. I don't think he'll ever become one of the best because all the best have something they excel at. Even Roethlisberger & Flacco (who I don't think are great) have things they are as good or better than everyone in the league. Dalton has nothing special.
Being great usually means consistency and good decision making. Lots of guys can throw the ball.
Not really knocking the decision. Bengals didn't have a choice IMO and both got a fair deal. But...unless Dalton shows greatness soon, the team will slowly decline when the cap gap closes and good players aren't able to be re-signed around him.
As for Dalton on the Vikings...that would mean as many championships as Schaub on the Vikings. Sorry but Dalton just isn't special.
Good luck though. I am a Bengals fan in the AFCN. Hate the Steelers (cocky fans). Now hate the Ravens (Texans North). Now hate the Browns (too much JF). Heck...unless the Texans make the playoffs (lol), I'll probably cheer the Bengals to go all the way.
ArmyBengal
Retired Army Medical NCO
I'm simply saying that any of those team currently in need of a QB would gladly take the Bengals situation at QB for themselves. ANY.
It's much better having a QB that can get you to the playoffs and attempt to improve the situation by building around him then to not have a QB capable of even getting you there.
Fans also want to say, "well they have to build a team around him". EVERY team has to build a team around their QB. You can't name on one hand how many QB's in the history of the game simply make all the other players better by simply stepping on the field. They all need someone to make plays.
Even the QB's that have multiple "special qualities" don't get to the playoffs in 3 straight seasons. Eli Manning has 2 Super Bowl rings. Is he great, elite, or whatever someone would like to label QB's these days ?? Nope, they built a team around him and if not for a lucky, on top of the helmet catch, he'd be a 1-1 QB in the Super Bowl. When was the last time he took them back ??
Again, neither a Dalton lover or basher. Simply a fan that can objectively look at a situation and realize it's as good as it can be. For me, the "as good as it can be" is far better than other team currently find themselves.
It's much better having a QB that can get you to the playoffs and attempt to improve the situation by building around him then to not have a QB capable of even getting you there.
Fans also want to say, "well they have to build a team around him". EVERY team has to build a team around their QB. You can't name on one hand how many QB's in the history of the game simply make all the other players better by simply stepping on the field. They all need someone to make plays.
Even the QB's that have multiple "special qualities" don't get to the playoffs in 3 straight seasons. Eli Manning has 2 Super Bowl rings. Is he great, elite, or whatever someone would like to label QB's these days ?? Nope, they built a team around him and if not for a lucky, on top of the helmet catch, he'd be a 1-1 QB in the Super Bowl. When was the last time he took them back ??
Again, neither a Dalton lover or basher. Simply a fan that can objectively look at a situation and realize it's as good as it can be. For me, the "as good as it can be" is far better than other team currently find themselves.
I'd rather have Fitz & Campbell for $3M/yr & draft a 1st/2nd round QB next season than roll with Dalton at $17M/yr
They may be mid level tender for a starting QB nowadays & that's fine if your goal is to be a mid level team. Paying Dalton $17M/yr or whatever it is, you're taking 1st/2nd/3rd round QB off the board for the next two years.
ArmyBengal
Retired Army Medical NCO
See it how you may, but if the rest of the team is carrying Dalton, then they would carry any QB and see the team drafting late in all rounds and take them out of the running for a top QB prospect.
Then again, maybe I forget how easy it is to find the next Tom Brady.
Good luck with Fitzpatrick. That's my point. You know how the season is going to end with him before it begins. At least Dalton gives the Bengals a chance to win and will get them to the playoffs. You'd rather not go at all ??
And who do you see coming out of college, in the next two years, that's any better?
The thing is, from Cincy's viewpoint, they've got a guy who, despite his flaws, is still winning. Why not continue to ride with him for a couple of years? And there's nothing stopping them from drafting a promising prospect - especially in the 2015 draft - and developing the guy that might allow you to cut Dalton.
According to OvertheCap-dot-com, the Bengals are on the hook for $107Mil for the 2015 season. The salary cap will likely be around$140-145 mil next season. That's 33-38 mil in cap space. Doesn't look like they'd be hindered by that contract in any way to me.
You could have had Bridgewater at 32, Carr at 36, & Garoppolo at 62.
If the Ravens & the Steelers play their best games, Andy Dalton isn't getting you to the play offs any more than Fitzpatrick is going to get us to the play offs. But you're out of the market for the next batch of good young QBs.
That's irrelevant. I don't think they'd be any worse off with Campbell or McCarron. & if they are, they're in position to get whoever.
I don't have a problem with riding with Datlon, I just wouldn't have spent so much money, because I don't believe in him like they obviously do. A back up QB should get around $3M in this league. A guy like Dalton, a good/decent game manager should get between $6 & $9M. Flacco, Ryan, Stafford... guys who are actually bigger parts of their teams success (my opinion of course, if the Bengals believe Dalton is a big part of their success, then that explains a lot) $10M~$14M... making that kind of money, someone should have asked, "Is Andy Dalton elite?"
Which I've never heard that question asked.
"Hey look, the Cowboys, Falcons, & Ravens are overpaying their QBs, let's overpay ours." Sorry, can't do it.
What you're neglecting is Learning Curve. Dalton has been in the system for three years. The discount you're after isn't a real discount when you factor in the losses you'll accumulate while the new boys come up to speed. And this league is about winning. Fan bases have little patience to suffer through losing seasons while the coaching staff grooms the new QB. If Marvin Lewis gambles on a new boy and the team back slides from three straight winning seasons - not to mention a division title - he'll be out on the street. Marvin and the GM that was too cheap to pay the playoff QB both. God help you if Dalton pops up in Cleveland, because you refuse to pay him, and they start winning.
That's not quite true; at least as it pertains to this thread. The visiting Bengal fan, ArmyBengal, has said, indirectly I'll admit, that Dalton is not elite.
That's him saying Dalton is not elite.
But in today's "modern-day NFL" what they paid Dalton is not elite money.
It's solid starter money. That $6-9 mil number you're quoting is "you're a decent placeholder but not the future" money.
TK you gotta recalibrate. This isn't our daddy's NFL. Like it or not, it's a QB-driven league now days.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I'm sure there was an earmark put in there by congressmen where those poor franchises are in something like the "We Love Women and Children Bill".
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
He might be the veteran backup at some point in the future if he gets lucky.
Marvin Lewis has already overstayed his welcome in Cincinnati. & I'm not discounting anything. I don't believe Dalton gives them an advantage.
Imagine that Andy Dalton was released by the Bengals & we signed him to a six year $96~ $115M deal.
We paid Ftizpatrick $3M to be our placeholder.
If the Bengals were going to dump Lewis they should have done it after they finished 4-12 (in 2010) for the second time since they hired him in 2003. They didn't and were rewarded (if that's the right word) with a division title and three straight playoff appearances. Lewis earned his reprieve.
And if the deal was structured the same way Dalton's is where any "cap pain" dissipates at the end of next season such that we can dump him in two years with little dead money, I might be on board with that. I'd feel better about signing a young QB who has a 30-18 career record than the 7th round back up (27-49-1) we just signed.
First, we signed Fitzy for 7.25 mil ($4 mil guaranteed); that's pedestrian backup QB money. And I fear we'll get just what we paid for too.... pedestrian backup QB performance. And let that record comparison sink in for a sec... Dalton has won more games in 3 yrs than Fitz has won in nine.
Having said that, if what you're really arguing is that the whole QB pay scale is badly skewed, I couldn't agree more. Even those guys considered "elite" are way overpaid. There is no way in hell that one guy should eat up roughly one fifth of a team's 53-man salary allotment. That's just insane. But that's what the owners have done to themselves.
& if he slips in the slightest, they'll run him out of town faster than Kubiak.
That's crazy. The strength of the team has more to do with those QBs winning. You're going to pay one a $14M premium just because he's younger & has been on a better team?
There's no scale. If there were a scale Dalton wouldn't have just signed a 6 year $96M ~ $115M contract. All that says, is that Ryan Tannehill can expect a big payday next season & that's insane. Every now & then, these owners have got to stop acting like scared little girls & call a bluff or two.... "He's still under contract, I'll be damned if we sign him to anything more than 6 years $9M."
While we argue this, name the last mega million dollar QB to win a Super Bowl.
Oh no doubt. Such is the way of the "what have you done for me lately" mindset of today.
I've already agreed with that philosophy. No one guy should eat up that much of a teams salary cap. I don't care who he is.
well, my friend, that's what the Peyton and Tom B. and Drew contracts have done to the pay scale. You don't want to call it a "pay scale", fine. That's today's elite QB market price. And if you're not "elite" but fairly competent, then you get 60-80% of that kind of money (depending on where you're perceived to be ranked in the next level of performance) with incentives to make you approach that kind of money if the guy hits all of them.
Easy, Eli just two SB's ago. Flacco got insane money after he won... and I still don't think he's worth it. The year he won it, 2011 season, Eli's cap hit was 14 million. And he isn't even considered truly elite.
After he won.... & that's my point. Paying these guys like this doesn't even improve their chances of ever winning a Super Bowl... it might even hurt their chances.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I find it interesting that most of the mega million club has failed subsequent to getting their big contract.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Really who is on the most side?
What's worse, paying a guy that produced 3 playoff appearances or being cheap and having to start over or drastically reducing your chances of even getting to the Super Bowl by being cheap and going with an unknown quantity at QB.
And again, in this specific instance, even with the new Dalton contract Cincy has ~14-15 mil in cap space and even more next year when the cap goes up. So I'm just not seeing the gloom & doom in this specific contract - the way it's structured - that you seem to see. There's plenty cap room to draft a QB successor even in the first round. After all, with Dalton under center, it's not like they're drafting in the top five. So whoever they draft will be getting mid-twenties draft spot money. Plenty cap space left for that.
Obviously we're not looking at this situation the same way. I believe you either have a franchise QB, or you don't. & if you don't, you should always be looking. Giving Andy Dalton $17M it pretty much takes the Bengals out of that market.
I also do not believe Andy Dalton produced 3 anythings. No more than Tj Yates in the same situation anyway.
And I'm saying signing Andy Dalton, with the cap space they have AND the rookie pay scale in effect, that the Bengals can still find his successor through the draft.
Unless you think that Manning, Brees, Brady or some other elite QB is suddenly going to become available, there's no one out there that will eat up all that cap space.
ArmyBengal
Retired Army Medical NCO
No, Andy Dalton isn't elite. I never have made that comment and have only said that while he has in fact had success, he still has things to improve on. That usually happens when you have a guy that's starting his 4th season.
Bridgewater ?? We had the chance like every other team in the first round and passed. The Vikings moved up to get him, but to think he's going to come in and have the same success is a crap shoot. To think it automatic for him to take the team to the playoffs is just silly.
Carr ?? Garrapolo ?? You obviously view rookies as being able to step in and take a team to the Super Bowl. Agree to disagree.
Matt Ryan has won how many playoff games being the focal point of his team ?? One. Stafford is obviously a better talent and has gotten paid like a bajillion dollars for his services. How many playoff wins there ?? I had the same argument with Bengals fans and the fact of the matter is, starting QB's in this league get paid. When they take the team that was 4-12 from the season before to the playoffs for three straight seasons, it's even more. Don't think it was all on Dalton ?? You are right, but he was in fact the one throwing the ball on the field right ??
You also can't be so hateful to discount the fact that the Bengals gave themselves an out and regardless of how anyone might feel about the contract, it in NO WAY hamstrings the team. Look at the dead money in Ryan's deal. Yeah, love that Flacco won the Super Bowl, but what happens if last year wasn't a fluke ?? What if they finally realize you brought him in on one of the best defensive teams in history ?? Think they are getting out of that deal ?? IMPOSSIBLE. Seriously, look at his contract.
Marvin Lewis isn't going anywhere regardless of what people think and i'm already on record to say he's the luckiest coach in the history of coaching to still have a job. Mike Brown LOVES him and that is all that needs to be said.
Yeah, you either have a franchise QB or you don't. What were the Texans doing in the draft again ?? I've already told you what you had in Fitzpatrick and what you saw in the preseason game, you are going to see more than not. You mean to tell me you wouldn't take Dalton for two more seasons knowing the team could walk away from him at that point ?? If the answer is no, then you must hate your team and enjoy losing. I'm a Bengals fan, I KNOW about suffering through a decade of losing. It sucks and you can't simply pick the next guy to take you to the Super Bowl in the upcoming draft.
With the cap going up the way it will in the next few years, Dalton's contract will pale in comparison to what some of these guys are going to get. By the way, how much does anyone think Cam Newton is going to get ?? Will he be deserving since he was the #1 overall or because of all of his post season success. Oh wait a minute....
Bridgewater ?? We had the chance like every other team in the first round and passed. The Vikings moved up to get him, but to think he's going to come in and have the same success is a crap shoot. To think it automatic for him to take the team to the playoffs is just silly.
Carr ?? Garrapolo ?? You obviously view rookies as being able to step in and take a team to the Super Bowl. Agree to disagree.
Matt Ryan has won how many playoff games being the focal point of his team ?? One. Stafford is obviously a better talent and has gotten paid like a bajillion dollars for his services. How many playoff wins there ?? I had the same argument with Bengals fans and the fact of the matter is, starting QB's in this league get paid. When they take the team that was 4-12 from the season before to the playoffs for three straight seasons, it's even more. Don't think it was all on Dalton ?? You are right, but he was in fact the one throwing the ball on the field right ??
You also can't be so hateful to discount the fact that the Bengals gave themselves an out and regardless of how anyone might feel about the contract, it in NO WAY hamstrings the team. Look at the dead money in Ryan's deal. Yeah, love that Flacco won the Super Bowl, but what happens if last year wasn't a fluke ?? What if they finally realize you brought him in on one of the best defensive teams in history ?? Think they are getting out of that deal ?? IMPOSSIBLE. Seriously, look at his contract.
Marvin Lewis isn't going anywhere regardless of what people think and i'm already on record to say he's the luckiest coach in the history of coaching to still have a job. Mike Brown LOVES him and that is all that needs to be said.
Yeah, you either have a franchise QB or you don't. What were the Texans doing in the draft again ?? I've already told you what you had in Fitzpatrick and what you saw in the preseason game, you are going to see more than not. You mean to tell me you wouldn't take Dalton for two more seasons knowing the team could walk away from him at that point ?? If the answer is no, then you must hate your team and enjoy losing. I'm a Bengals fan, I KNOW about suffering through a decade of losing. It sucks and you can't simply pick the next guy to take you to the Super Bowl in the upcoming draft.
With the cap going up the way it will in the next few years, Dalton's contract will pale in comparison to what some of these guys are going to get. By the way, how much does anyone think Cam Newton is going to get ?? Will he be deserving since he was the #1 overall or because of all of his post season success. Oh wait a minute....
I like Dalton.
I don't like him enough to give him $16M/yr.
If the Ravens & the Steelers are back to their winning ways, having Andy Dalton on your team will not be the difference between winning the division & not.
ArmyBengal
Retired Army Medical NCO
That 16 million per year is also a little off. It's basically a 25 million 2 year deal that allows the team to walk away if they choose to. If Dalton does make improvement and get the team to the AFC Championship or Super Bowl, then the larger money will kick in.
It forces the player to win if they want to make the big bucks.
25 million over 2 years is hardly big bucks for a starting QB.
As mentioned, Dalton doesn't have to be the difference. He just needs little improvements here and there. If he makes those, I don't care what the Steelers or Ravens do.
I enjoy this conversation though.
That 16 million per year is also a little off. It's basically a 25 million 2 year deal that allows the team to walk away if they choose to. If Dalton does make improvement and get the team to the AFC Championship or Super Bowl, then the larger money will kick in.
It forces the player to win if they want to make the big bucks.
25 million over 2 years is hardly big bucks for a starting QB.
As mentioned, Dalton doesn't have to be the difference. He just needs little improvements here and there. If he makes those, I don't care what the Steelers or Ravens do.
I enjoy this conversation though.
Fine. I understand your position, I just can't agree. If the Texans had signed Fitzpatrick for two years at $12.5M each, I'd be upset. Noticeably. I'm upset, even at $4M.
If I thought Andy Dalton brought $12.5M to the table, I'd have no problem paying him as much. To me, it doesn't matter what other people are paying their QBs.
To put it in perspective, I did not have a problem paying Matt Schaub $12.5M. At the time, I thought he brought more to the table than I think Andy Dalton does now.
ArmyBengal
Retired Army Medical NCO
Yeah, some people have players they think highly of and others they don't. I understand your position and assuredly you will find that part of Bengal fandom that agrees with you.
I think i'm part of the middle ground and it is not a place many occupy in the argument. Most are either staunch defender of Dalton with nothing more than the stats of what he has accomplished in his first 3 years or they are absolutely hating everything he does with no thought to the situation he came in under.
I still believe Dalton has the ability, love some of the things he has accomplished, but am more than willing to walk away after these next two years if we don't progress further than we have in the last few seasons.
9-7, 10-6, 11-5 and 3 playoffs losses. I like the seasonal record progression, but there is an expectation to win in the post season and anything short needs to be reevaluated. I simply think he brings more than someone like Schaub, who I never thought was worth crap from the minute he went to the Texans. Again, we as fans like some and dislike others. Some people love Matthew Stafford and Tony Romo, while I think they are both useless.
I as well hate what QB's make and think it's ridiculous, but that's the nature of the beast. The owners should really take a stand on how these things are structured and with both Kaepernick and Dalton you are starting to see money going to them with an expectation to win in order to earn the rest. I'm much better with that than seeing them give him a Flacco or Matt Ryan deal.
I think i'm part of the middle ground and it is not a place many occupy in the argument. Most are either staunch defender of Dalton with nothing more than the stats of what he has accomplished in his first 3 years or they are absolutely hating everything he does with no thought to the situation he came in under.
I still believe Dalton has the ability, love some of the things he has accomplished, but am more than willing to walk away after these next two years if we don't progress further than we have in the last few seasons.
9-7, 10-6, 11-5 and 3 playoffs losses. I like the seasonal record progression, but there is an expectation to win in the post season and anything short needs to be reevaluated. I simply think he brings more than someone like Schaub, who I never thought was worth crap from the minute he went to the Texans. Again, we as fans like some and dislike others. Some people love Matthew Stafford and Tony Romo, while I think they are both useless.
I as well hate what QB's make and think it's ridiculous, but that's the nature of the beast. The owners should really take a stand on how these things are structured and with both Kaepernick and Dalton you are starting to see money going to them with an expectation to win in order to earn the rest. I'm much better with that than seeing them give him a Flacco or Matt Ryan deal.
Neither do the Bengals. You keep quoting that incorrect number.
His salary is only guaranteed for two years, during which he'll make $25 mil.
LINK
Dan B.
Hall of Fame
Well, he could make $16 million a year with those incentives. If the Bengals win the Super Bowl. I wonder whether folks here think he would be worth $16 million that year?
If he plays out the contract it will average $16M/yr (6 years $96M). If he hits those incentives he can earn as much as $19M/yr ($115M).
Trent Dilfer won the Super Bowl & I don't think he was worth $10M at any point in his career. I think Dalton is a step above Dilfer & should be getting paid in the $9M range. If they get to the Super Bowl it's going to be because they had one of the better defenses & run games in the league, with an average to slightly better than average passing game.