edwardc5637
Waterboy
Should have kept Shaub.
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Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?
- Thread starter 76Texan
- Start date
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
Will the hyperbole never end?
silvrhand
All Pro
Good points. Hell, just look at the 1st few games Steve Young started for SF. They were UGLY!
I would think you would have better resources, and more of them, at the NFL level to learn your position. Not to mention more time since you don't have classes.
IMO, the game slows down seperately for each player. For some, it never does. I don't think it's something you can teach.
Under the new CBA, is it even possible to see how much of an issue CK has in this area in OTA's and TC, or will it be in preseason going against scrubs?
michaelm
vox nihili
It's all a chess game. If a defense focuses on keeping a QB in the pocket, there's a way to exploit that. I feel like O'Brien is the guy to figure out how to exploit it.
Kubiak seemed more of a checkers guy than chess master last season.
Kubiak seemed more of a checkers guy than chess master last season.
Sad, but high degree of truth.
It's no secret that the opponents stay home more often now on our play action roll-out.
When you have Foster on the shelf and Tate with 4 cracked ribs, defenses just don't respect your running game.
It makes the play action that much harder to execute.
Then on regular plays, the pass-pro was lacking, the secondary can afford to cheat up more often.
If you pay attention to the receivers from both teams, you should notice that theirs were more open than ours, and it's not just because they were able to create more separarion.
It's a chain of effect that keeps snowballing, making it hard to watch.
Dang, we made Mcgloin looks like an All - pro, one has to wonder why OB didn't trade a 4th for him instead of drafting Savage.
Perhaps, the Raiders wanted AJ instead, LOL!
If you pay attention to the receivers from both teams, you should notice that theirs were more open than ours, and it's not just because they were able to create more separarion.
It's a chain of effect that keeps snowballing, making it hard to watch.
Dang, we made Mcgloin looks like an All - pro, one has to wonder why OB didn't trade a 4th for him instead of drafting Savage.
Perhaps, the Raiders wanted AJ instead, LOL!
That's really all they had to do with 75% of Kubiak's offense. Stay at home and see which side executed better. Not to mention his incredibley stubborn insistence on being glaringly obvious on 90% of his play calling.
With what BO'B is saying, I'm not so sure that will be as big a deal. The short passing game will become his running game. IF the OL plays better.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
exactly there is a way to beat defenses that do that and keep them honest and then they can not always key in on keeping QB in the pocket. Problem was Kubiak was not open minded enough to go away from what he knew.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Amazing the "best GM in the NFL" got it so wrong about Kubiak, huh?
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
I'm just going off of what i saw here which was an inability to adjust to players strengths, an inability to adapt to defenses who could stop his original game plan. Not to mention his success was very limited as far as wins and the play offs until we hired Wade. He may be a better O.C than a head coach. Maybe it was just to much for him and made him worse as an OC.
Texans vs. Jags week 14.
I didn't have time to re-evaluate the plays of all 3 QBs; it has been awhile since I rewatched other portions of the games besides the time that Keenum was ln there.
I took a quick glance and noticed that Henne might have gotten more pressures than Keenum, while Schaub was pressured a little less.
But I cannot ascertain this as facts at this time.
What I can be sure of is that Henne was supported by a stronger running game, and more penalties from the Texans, bailing out the Jags O at times. His ST was also a hair better.
His numbers are somewhat equivalent to Case and Schaub, however.
Schaub was pressured a little less, and the receivers got open a bit more with fewer drops.
There was no real winner at the QB position for me until I can dig in more details.
It is true that Keenum can play better, but the same can also be said about the other two QBs on the field that day.
I didn't have time to re-evaluate the plays of all 3 QBs; it has been awhile since I rewatched other portions of the games besides the time that Keenum was ln there.
I took a quick glance and noticed that Henne might have gotten more pressures than Keenum, while Schaub was pressured a little less.
But I cannot ascertain this as facts at this time.
What I can be sure of is that Henne was supported by a stronger running game, and more penalties from the Texans, bailing out the Jags O at times. His ST was also a hair better.
His numbers are somewhat equivalent to Case and Schaub, however.
Schaub was pressured a little less, and the receivers got open a bit more with fewer drops.
There was no real winner at the QB position for me until I can dig in more details.
It is true that Keenum can play better, but the same can also be said about the other two QBs on the field that day.
Texans vs Jags week 14
1st drive at 8:43
Tate gained 4 before Keenum hit Hopkins for 16 despite being pressured.
Myers got beat right off to the bat to his right on play action off 21 personnel (2 backs, 1 TE.)
This also caused Brooks to lost it to the twist.
Keenum had to scramble to his left right after the 2-sec mark.
(Note that on play action, the pass is always slower to develop since the QB has to execute a fake hand-off first.
This is supposed to delay the pass rush at least a fraction of a second.)
On first down, W. Smith got beat, but Keenum was able to step up the pocket to fire a pass to AJ.
(The DT would have gotten to Case within 3 secs if he didn't ger rid of the ball.)
Case threw the ball correctly to the outside with the CB playing to the inside.
The ball went through AJ's hands, however.
People who wants to find fault might say that Keenum was not pin-point accurate.
IMHO, that ball needed to be caught.
On second down, Case hit Graham for 4 on a play action bootleg to his left.
The back side CB recognized the ball fake and stayed on task.
On third down, the Jags sent a six-man blitz.
The Texans had six to block.
There was no hot receiver open.
On the right side, despite having 5 to block 4 (3 actually, as the 4th rusher never engaged),
the Line got pushed back.
Case couldn't step up nor set up so he had to throw the ball off-balance while retreating with the 5th rusher being free.
The ball fell just short of Hopkins.
Should Case take a chance and throw the ball a hair earlier?
May be, but if only there was an open receiver in that split second.
But all four were tightly covered (the back stayed back to block the 6th rusher.)
In order to get the ball out earlier, Case would have to roll the dice and threw the ball before the receiver make his break.
But the DBs knew how to play their man within the 5-yd rule; they wouldn't let the two underneath guys get off the jam.
The chance for a completion is low (since the receivers weren't ready) and the chance for an INT is there.
It would have been nice if Graham can dominate the SS like Gronk or Hernandez or that KMart can get some separation.
As it was, it was basically a throw away like TK wanted.
1st drive at 8:43
Tate gained 4 before Keenum hit Hopkins for 16 despite being pressured.
Myers got beat right off to the bat to his right on play action off 21 personnel (2 backs, 1 TE.)
This also caused Brooks to lost it to the twist.
Keenum had to scramble to his left right after the 2-sec mark.
(Note that on play action, the pass is always slower to develop since the QB has to execute a fake hand-off first.
This is supposed to delay the pass rush at least a fraction of a second.)
On first down, W. Smith got beat, but Keenum was able to step up the pocket to fire a pass to AJ.
(The DT would have gotten to Case within 3 secs if he didn't ger rid of the ball.)
Case threw the ball correctly to the outside with the CB playing to the inside.
The ball went through AJ's hands, however.
People who wants to find fault might say that Keenum was not pin-point accurate.
IMHO, that ball needed to be caught.
On second down, Case hit Graham for 4 on a play action bootleg to his left.
The back side CB recognized the ball fake and stayed on task.
On third down, the Jags sent a six-man blitz.
The Texans had six to block.
There was no hot receiver open.
On the right side, despite having 5 to block 4 (3 actually, as the 4th rusher never engaged),
the Line got pushed back.
Case couldn't step up nor set up so he had to throw the ball off-balance while retreating with the 5th rusher being free.
The ball fell just short of Hopkins.
Should Case take a chance and throw the ball a hair earlier?
May be, but if only there was an open receiver in that split second.
But all four were tightly covered (the back stayed back to block the 6th rusher.)
In order to get the ball out earlier, Case would have to roll the dice and threw the ball before the receiver make his break.
But the DBs knew how to play their man within the 5-yd rule; they wouldn't let the two underneath guys get off the jam.
The chance for a completion is low (since the receivers weren't ready) and the chance for an INT is there.
It would have been nice if Graham can dominate the SS like Gronk or Hernandez or that KMart can get some separation.
As it was, it was basically a throw away like TK wanted.
2nd drive at 4:34
Tate ran the ball 3 times for 12 yards and a first down.
DJ then gained 6 before Case hook up with AJ for 6 on a receiver screen.
On first down, Keenum missed a wide-open Tate as he threw the ball behind Tate on a quick out without any pressure and a clear throwing lane.
Could it be that Keenum wanted to lead Tate to the inside since the Jags were in a standard 52 zone.
With Tate running toward the side line, he was running right toward the LCB.
If Tate turned around sooner (cutting his route short,) he would have room and time to square up to run over the defender or to make him miss.
At any rate, just chalk this up as an innacurate throw by Case.
Tate ran for 2 on second down.
On third down and 8, Case got sacked for -6 when both Newton and Smith got walked back and then allowed penetration to the inside.\
(Myers and Keenum were in a double-team.)
Jags rushed four.
Case stepped up and was throwing the ball, but it was batted down by Babin.
Babin hit the ball and Case's hand right before the 3-sec mark.
It was very close, but the ruling was that Babin hit Case's hand right before "forward" movement so they called it a sack.
Case saw AJ open 18 yards down field in a 52 zone, and was trying to go there.
AJ was the only receiver about to turn his head on the break
The other 4 routes were slow developing routes.
This, to me, is part of the problems.
You have an Oline that cannot sustain a four-man pass rush, why call all five slow developing routes?
...
Tate ran the ball 3 times for 12 yards and a first down.
DJ then gained 6 before Case hook up with AJ for 6 on a receiver screen.
On first down, Keenum missed a wide-open Tate as he threw the ball behind Tate on a quick out without any pressure and a clear throwing lane.
Could it be that Keenum wanted to lead Tate to the inside since the Jags were in a standard 52 zone.
With Tate running toward the side line, he was running right toward the LCB.
If Tate turned around sooner (cutting his route short,) he would have room and time to square up to run over the defender or to make him miss.
At any rate, just chalk this up as an innacurate throw by Case.
Tate ran for 2 on second down.
On third down and 8, Case got sacked for -6 when both Newton and Smith got walked back and then allowed penetration to the inside.\
(Myers and Keenum were in a double-team.)
Jags rushed four.
Case stepped up and was throwing the ball, but it was batted down by Babin.
Babin hit the ball and Case's hand right before the 3-sec mark.
It was very close, but the ruling was that Babin hit Case's hand right before "forward" movement so they called it a sack.
Case saw AJ open 18 yards down field in a 52 zone, and was trying to go there.
AJ was the only receiver about to turn his head on the break
The other 4 routes were slow developing routes.
This, to me, is part of the problems.
You have an Oline that cannot sustain a four-man pass rush, why call all five slow developing routes?
...
Third drive starting at 13:41 in the second quarter, Jags leading by 14.
On first down, Case just missed Griffin on a deep route that would have gained some thirty yards.
Griffin was held slightly (you can see the jersey being pulled just enough to slow down Griffin a hair.)
The ball left Keenum's at the 2-1/2 sec mark when both Myers and Brooks were pushed into him.
This is after Case performed a faked hand off to the RB.
Also, he had no room to step into his throw. He was throwing from right where he barely finished taking his dropback.
Myers was stepping on his toes right after the release.
Tate loss 2 on a called screen pass when the Jags played it really well.
The two LBs read W. Smith's release correctly and reacted very fast.
Tate had no chance as Smith couldn't get his block down.
On third down, the Jags rushed four.
With a single deep safety, they had two guys double-teaming AJ right off the bat while the other 4 defenders were tight on the rest of the Texans' weapons.
Keenum recongnized it and took off for 13 yards.
Tate gained 5 on first down, but can only mustard 1 on second down.
Hopkins was called for unecessary roughness as he punched the CB in the face mask.
Myers then was flagged for false start resulting in 3rd and 24.
Jags rushed four.
With six guys blocking, the Texans somehow managed to make life hard for the QB.
Both Brown and Smith were pushed way back.
The snap was on the left hash marks.
That's where Brown was 9-10 yards in the backfield at the 2-1/2 sec mark, while Smith was in the middle of the field.
If Case was to remain in place, he would have been meeting these two and then engulfed by the RDE.
Talk about ineptitude.
Scrambling out of the pocket, Case tried a last gap dump off to Tate, but the RB was caught in the back of Myers and fell down.
Texans might as well call a draw play to Tate on 3rd and 24 here, LOL!
On first down, Case just missed Griffin on a deep route that would have gained some thirty yards.
Griffin was held slightly (you can see the jersey being pulled just enough to slow down Griffin a hair.)
The ball left Keenum's at the 2-1/2 sec mark when both Myers and Brooks were pushed into him.
This is after Case performed a faked hand off to the RB.
Also, he had no room to step into his throw. He was throwing from right where he barely finished taking his dropback.
Myers was stepping on his toes right after the release.
Tate loss 2 on a called screen pass when the Jags played it really well.
The two LBs read W. Smith's release correctly and reacted very fast.
Tate had no chance as Smith couldn't get his block down.
On third down, the Jags rushed four.
With a single deep safety, they had two guys double-teaming AJ right off the bat while the other 4 defenders were tight on the rest of the Texans' weapons.
Keenum recongnized it and took off for 13 yards.
Tate gained 5 on first down, but can only mustard 1 on second down.
Hopkins was called for unecessary roughness as he punched the CB in the face mask.
Myers then was flagged for false start resulting in 3rd and 24.
Jags rushed four.
With six guys blocking, the Texans somehow managed to make life hard for the QB.
Both Brown and Smith were pushed way back.
The snap was on the left hash marks.
That's where Brown was 9-10 yards in the backfield at the 2-1/2 sec mark, while Smith was in the middle of the field.
If Case was to remain in place, he would have been meeting these two and then engulfed by the RDE.
Talk about ineptitude.
Scrambling out of the pocket, Case tried a last gap dump off to Tate, but the RB was caught in the back of Myers and fell down.
Texans might as well call a draw play to Tate on 3rd and 24 here, LOL!
Fourth drive at 1:20
Keenum quickly found Graham for 9 on first down.
On the next play, the Jags rushed 4, but the Oline allowed a DT to enter the middle.
Case rolled left and found AJ wide open. He would have at least get a reception at the Jags 35-37 with an easy pass over the top.
For some reason, Case short armed the throw right to Allan Ball underneath.
It's not like the Jags figure Keenum out or anything; it was just a terrible throw, and a simple one at that. A decent high school QB can make that throw.
With 54 sec left, the Jags moved the ball for 39 yards before settling for a FG.
...
Keenum quickly found Graham for 9 on first down.
On the next play, the Jags rushed 4, but the Oline allowed a DT to enter the middle.
Case rolled left and found AJ wide open. He would have at least get a reception at the Jags 35-37 with an easy pass over the top.
For some reason, Case short armed the throw right to Allan Ball underneath.
It's not like the Jags figure Keenum out or anything; it was just a terrible throw, and a simple one at that. A decent high school QB can make that throw.
With 54 sec left, the Jags moved the ball for 39 yards before settling for a FG.
...
Second half
Fifth drive at 14:39
After Tate gained 1, Case found him for 5 on second down.
Case released the ball around just before the 2-1/2 sec mark.
Brown lunged and was thrown to the ground; Newton also got beat off the edge.
The two DEs sandwiched Keenum and took him to the ground.
That's two QB hits on one play.
Keenum got up and calmly found AJ who had beaten the LCB's jam on the quick slant for 14.
Jags rushed 5, but Case let the ball go quickly.
It sure helps when your receiver can beat the defender.
After a 3-yd run by DJ, the Texans tried drop back play action.
Greg Jones missed the block and another defender was running around Myers.
With two defenders on either side of him and no time to spare, Keenum sent a pass to the far left corner.
As the single deep safety was there, he couldn't afford to throw the ball down the seam.
I don't think the LB had a finger on the ball; it looks like the ball just sail a little on Case.
It would have been easier if he had a little more room to properly step into the throw.
It was an inacurate pass, but a safe pass.
I'm not sure I like this 2-receiver pass pattern.
They had Hopkins on the right, running an in-and-out pattern to the right.
AJ was on the left, running some type of a seam route.
This allowed the deep safety to concentrate on double-teaming AJ.
If Hopkins was to run a post route, it would force the deep safety to stay home a little longer, giving the QB more space downfield to aim his throw.
Just my thinking.
On third and seven, the Jags sent a 5-man blitz.
Keenum read the free blitzing LB off the edge and properly went to KMart on the hot route.
He threw the ball before Martin made the break.
The ball went to the spot of a curl route while Martin made the break on a quick in route.
If that was supposed to be a quick in then it was a terrible throw by Case.
If that was a curl route then it was on the money.
Yes, there was a free blitzer, but Case got the ball out in "plenty" of time.
I don't think the blitzer had any influence on the precision of the throw.
Punt.
...
Fifth drive at 14:39
After Tate gained 1, Case found him for 5 on second down.
Case released the ball around just before the 2-1/2 sec mark.
Brown lunged and was thrown to the ground; Newton also got beat off the edge.
The two DEs sandwiched Keenum and took him to the ground.
That's two QB hits on one play.
Keenum got up and calmly found AJ who had beaten the LCB's jam on the quick slant for 14.
Jags rushed 5, but Case let the ball go quickly.
It sure helps when your receiver can beat the defender.
After a 3-yd run by DJ, the Texans tried drop back play action.
Greg Jones missed the block and another defender was running around Myers.
With two defenders on either side of him and no time to spare, Keenum sent a pass to the far left corner.
As the single deep safety was there, he couldn't afford to throw the ball down the seam.
I don't think the LB had a finger on the ball; it looks like the ball just sail a little on Case.
It would have been easier if he had a little more room to properly step into the throw.
It was an inacurate pass, but a safe pass.
I'm not sure I like this 2-receiver pass pattern.
They had Hopkins on the right, running an in-and-out pattern to the right.
AJ was on the left, running some type of a seam route.
This allowed the deep safety to concentrate on double-teaming AJ.
If Hopkins was to run a post route, it would force the deep safety to stay home a little longer, giving the QB more space downfield to aim his throw.
Just my thinking.
On third and seven, the Jags sent a 5-man blitz.
Keenum read the free blitzing LB off the edge and properly went to KMart on the hot route.
He threw the ball before Martin made the break.
The ball went to the spot of a curl route while Martin made the break on a quick in route.
If that was supposed to be a quick in then it was a terrible throw by Case.
If that was a curl route then it was on the money.
Yes, there was a free blitzer, but Case got the ball out in "plenty" of time.
I don't think the blitzer had any influence on the precision of the throw.
Punt.
...
Sixth drive at 9:49
Case read cover 4 and properly sent the ball to AJ on a 10-yd curl.
AJ gained more YAC for a total of 27 to the Jags 19.
On first down, Case threw the ball accurately to AJ on a 5yd stop route, but he dropped the ball.
On second down, Tate gained 3 to set up third and 7.
The Texans tried a quick fade to Hopkins in the left corner.
The pass was right there (about 1-2 yards inbound,) but Hopkins landed out of bound.
Whether one wants a more perfect pass by Case or a better job by Hopkins, the Jags did not beat the pass play.
The Texans just didn't connect.
...
Case read cover 4 and properly sent the ball to AJ on a 10-yd curl.
AJ gained more YAC for a total of 27 to the Jags 19.
On first down, Case threw the ball accurately to AJ on a 5yd stop route, but he dropped the ball.
On second down, Tate gained 3 to set up third and 7.
The Texans tried a quick fade to Hopkins in the left corner.
The pass was right there (about 1-2 yards inbound,) but Hopkins landed out of bound.
Whether one wants a more perfect pass by Case or a better job by Hopkins, the Jags did not beat the pass play.
The Texans just didn't connect.
...
Seventh drive at 6:12 trailing by 14 now.
Jags rushed 4.
On first down, the Texans got beat by the twist again.
(This is a glaring weakness of the Oline all year long.)
Whether it was on Brooks or Harris, Case got hit before the 2-sec mark.
His ball went off target toward Griffin.
On second down, the spot of the snap was in the middle of the field.
Harris was pushed 8 yards into the backfield to the middle before the 2-sec mark.
Of the 5 targets, none was open; some weren't even ready for the ball.
Case bought some time with his feet and delivered the ball accurately to Graham near the first down marker.
He dropped the ball.
On third and ten, the Jags sent a 5-man blitz.
Case correctly went to the hot receiver AJ on the right; the only one open and ready on the quick slant.
I can't see whether it was KMart or Hopkins in the slot with AJ on the outside.
The Jags played an odd 5-1 zone.
The nickel back certainly did not respect our slot receiver's speed.
He gambled and took a quick step forward and jumped on the slant, limiting it to just 4.
Also, it was too bad that Case's progression was from left to right.
IMO, he felt like he didn't have time to wait any longer for the 5th read on a blitz.
Also, if he trusted the line a little more on this particular play, he might have had a TD in the far right corner.
But, it's far from easy to get to your 5th read on a blitz.
...
Kubiak decided to go with Schaub for the rest of the game.
Jags rushed 4.
On first down, the Texans got beat by the twist again.
(This is a glaring weakness of the Oline all year long.)
Whether it was on Brooks or Harris, Case got hit before the 2-sec mark.
His ball went off target toward Griffin.
On second down, the spot of the snap was in the middle of the field.
Harris was pushed 8 yards into the backfield to the middle before the 2-sec mark.
Of the 5 targets, none was open; some weren't even ready for the ball.
Case bought some time with his feet and delivered the ball accurately to Graham near the first down marker.
He dropped the ball.
On third and ten, the Jags sent a 5-man blitz.
Case correctly went to the hot receiver AJ on the right; the only one open and ready on the quick slant.
I can't see whether it was KMart or Hopkins in the slot with AJ on the outside.
The Jags played an odd 5-1 zone.
The nickel back certainly did not respect our slot receiver's speed.
He gambled and took a quick step forward and jumped on the slant, limiting it to just 4.
Also, it was too bad that Case's progression was from left to right.
IMO, he felt like he didn't have time to wait any longer for the 5th read on a blitz.
Also, if he trusted the line a little more on this particular play, he might have had a TD in the far right corner.
But, it's far from easy to get to your 5th read on a blitz.
...
Kubiak decided to go with Schaub for the rest of the game.
Are we talking about Schaub's imagined strengths?
You're either very good at typing, or you have no job and no life. It would take me a while to type all that out. I am not good at typing and I work 10+ hrs a day.
You're either very good at typing, or you have no job and no life. It would take me a while to type all that out. I am not good at typing and I work 10+ hrs a day.
I'm fairly good at typing, I type by touch.
I took a few years off work, and currently only work about 30 hours a week.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
At the end of the day 76, you're basically making excuses for Case and you're saying the same thing for Keenum that everyone says was Schaub's achilles heel; He needs everything around him to be solid or great for him to be good. Short of that, there will always be a reason why he didn't play up to his potential.
We need to get away from that. We need a qb that makes those around him good and can still function at a high level even when he doesn't have perfect circumstances. Why we're beating the drum for a guy who couldn't even win a game for us is beyond me.
We need to get away from that. We need a qb that makes those around him good and can still function at a high level even when he doesn't have perfect circumstances. Why we're beating the drum for a guy who couldn't even win a game for us is beyond me.
And where do you find that guy?
corytx8
Rookie
I think what 76 is trying to point out is the rookie mistakes Case were making. He is only trying to build a case for the man because everyone is quick to abandoned ship and want a rookie to play at a elite QB level out of the gate.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.
eriadoc
Texan-American
You don't judge a QB after 8 games the same as one who has started 40+ games.
Give that man a cigar!!!!
The problem with that, is that guy is hard to find.
Matt Ryan... that's not him. They gave up a whole draft to get him another playmaker opposite Roddy White, in addition to Tony Gonzales & Steven Jackson (& Michael the burner turner before him) & they've been working on their defense ever since they drafted Ryan.
Joe Flacco... that's not him. They had the best defense for the last decade & the offense still couldn't score enough points to win (until recently).
Matthew Stafford... I don't think that's him, but it's hard to tell in Detroit.
Sam Bradford... we know he can't do it without help. He can't get to a winning season without help.
Cam Newton... I love watching this kid play, but it ain't him.
Tom Brady... well, everybody missed on that guy.
The QB is important. But we're better off (everyone is) focusing on building a solid team, with depth so in the event we do find that guy, he can do his thing. David Carr might have been that guy, but not on this team. Had we passed on him & he somehow made his way to the Miami Dolphins... who knows?
[
& I think that is a big misconception. Just about everyone was giving Keenum a pass for at least the first 5 games he played. When Schaub was put in the game, it shocked everyone. Even me.
There are rookie mistakes that "everyone" makes even the guys who eventually go on to be "great" QBs. Then there are the ones Case makes. Then it didn't appear that he learned from those mistakes in 8 games.
It was as if they didn't watch the film the next day & say, "Case... y'know you f'kd up right there right? You bobbed, should've weaved. Remember that."
It was like watching groundhog day when the second half started.
I'm hoping this was a case of Kubiak wanting to "perfect" the young'n when clearly it wasn't time for that. Instead of trying to get Case to fit his system (which I feel is what Kubiak was trying to do), he should have said, "Ok, this is what he does well, this is what he doesn't... let's do more of this, & the next time the defense breaks out Case's Kryptonite, we'll hit them with this."
Instead, he was like, "Sink or swim kid... make it happen."
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Do you give an undrafted player the same amount of chances to prove himself as you would a #1 pick? Nope. Let's not be naive here Ericadoc.
Favre came in for GB as a 2nd year qb after Majowkski got injured...& not only won the game, he looked damn good doing it...ended the season with them as a starter on a 4 game win streak. The team he took over was 4-12 the previous year so he didn't have everything in place for him...he got in there & made that team go & never looked back...Same for Kurt Warner although he had more help...that team doesn't ascend to the greatest show on turf with Trent Green.
Guys in Keenum's position have to leave no doubt.& his performances once teams got film on him left plenty of doubt. You guys can duck your head in the sand and blame it all on Kubiak and rookie mistakes all you want but more of what was going on with Keenum had to do with Keenum's overall shortcomings than those other factors.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Every team throws those darts...even with the Andrew Luck's & Peyton Manning's. Some teams are just closer to the dart board than others.
But just b/c you can't go and pick that guy up at Wal-Mart doesn't mean that you settle for something inferior. 8 games was plenty to get a glimpse of what Case could be...He ain't the guy.
Since we don't have that guy, we might as well make the best of what we got in Case Keenum right?
I'm good with that, that's the way I'm looking at it. Keenum most of all because he played at UH (yeah, I said it). But I wouldn't have a problem if they decided to make the best of what they've got with Tj Yates, or Fitzpatrick.
Case also hooked up with Andre a bit more so he's got that going for him as well. It most definitely would have been nice to see Keenum play on that 2011 team.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Obviously, OB does not think as do you or Case would be gone.
Questions are good.
Solutions are better.
At least I suggested Wilson and Glennon as viable candidates.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Aikman:
a true rookie surrounded by a 4-12 team with 0 talent on said team...with a rookie head coach to boot....
Keenum:
2nd year player, with pretty good talent on offense with him, and a team coming off a playoff appearance the year before...and a coach with 8 years of experience under his belt.
see the difference there?
eriadoc
Texan-American
First off, it is my opinion that teams would be better off in many situations if they did. Give a guy time to develop and he can turn out to be something. But I'm not naive enough to think that teams actually do that. However, our team does not have a #1 pick, so I'm not judging Keenum the same as a guy that's started 40+ games. Because there is no clear cut guy ahead of him, he may just develop and surprise some of y'all. Or maybe he won't. Whatever. I don't see the harm in hoping he does well. Hell, I want all our guys to do well, and I've said repeatedly that I want an honest, open competition, and the best man to win. Looks like we might actually get that for the first time in Texans history.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Right....so what does him bringing in Fitzy say about his beliefs then?
I didn't know you can make excuses too.
There are no excuses about the pressure given up.
It is well documented by independent sources like SI and PFF.
The drops by the receivers should be documented somewhere, or you can roll back the tapes to the plays I had described.
The lacking on D, ST, penalties.
They are all there.
Everything is in either black and white or in vivid color.
It is well documented by independent sources like SI and PFF.
The drops by the receivers should be documented somewhere, or you can roll back the tapes to the plays I had described.
The lacking on D, ST, penalties.
They are all there.
Everything is in either black and white or in vivid color.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Wouldn't Miami be better off if they'd stuck with Henne & used that #1 on someone like Luke Kuechly, Stephon Gilmore, or Quinton Coples?
Maybe not, but they wouldn't be much worse off if they had.
Or Jacksonville, should have stuck with Henne instead of forcing Gabbert back into the starting line up.
It says he thinks bringing Fitzmagic in is a better option than drafting Bortles, Bridgewater, or Manziel in the first round.