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Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

thunderkyss said:
Schaub, in his worst season ever, won two games. He took 21 sacks for 162 yards.

As a first time starter, Schaub only took 16 sacks for 126 yards, finished with an 87.2 passer rating, & he punished teams for blitzing him.
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If Shaub can run backwards as fast as Case could I'm sure those sack loss would be much higher.
 
Im all for Case, but reality is he did struggle vs the blitz and never really seemed to improve. Seeing a hot read and making the throw in an all out blitz is vital in the nfl and he never seemed to be able to do it. We will see what happens under BOB. Good luck to all the qbs, we need someone to step up!
 
thunderkyss said:
Let me try to explain my "grading system"

Andrew Luck was sacked 32 times in 16 games. Nobody cares because the team he led won 11 games.

Case Keenum was sacked 19 times in 8 games. Nobody cares because his team won 0 games.

It's a team sport & all that, but the QB is the leader. Not that it's his fault that we lost 8 games, but they're sure as heck blaming him for not winning 1. Especially when so many of them were so close.

Yeah, Bullock missed that field goal which would have propped Keenum up to Tom Brady status. It sux, but that's the way it goes.
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I'm sure all the guys like Bradshaw, Tarkenton, Elway, Fouts, Eli, et al are glad that their coaches didn't have the same grading system you do, TK.
 
amazing80 said:
Im all for Case, but reality is he did struggle vs the blitz and never really seemed to improve. Seeing a hot read and making the throw in an all out blitz is vital in the nfl and he never seemed to be able to do it. We will see what happens under BOB. Good luck to all the qbs, we need someone to step up!
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Was he even allowed to make hot reads and adjustments?
 
I will give credit to UH and Case Keenum fans, y'all have a lot of capacity for hope.

If he is the guy to lead us, then I wish him all the luck in the world. If he's not... eh. Nothing lost for me.
 
amazing80 said:
Im all for Case, but reality is he did struggle vs the blitz and never really seemed to improve. Seeing a hot read and making the throw in an all out blitz is vital in the nfl and he never seemed to be able to do it. We will see what happens under BOB. Good luck to all the qbs, we need someone to step up!
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All young QBs starting for the first time in the NFL need some work in certain aspects of their game.

Think of the 18 INTs Luck threw his rookie year.
And I've mentioned I noted at least five should have been INTS and 5 near misses or so in his gist six games (I didn't watch the rest of his games in detail so I don't know whether there were other drops and/or near-misses.)

Wilson, on the other hand, needed to make plays often with his feet. Some of those occasions were because he didn't make the correct reads in order to get the ball out on time.

Even veterans miss their reads at times.
Schaub for example, missed some CB blitzes that resulted in sacks.
If I remember correctly, he got hurt on one of those occasions.
 
htownfan32 said:
I will give credit to UH and Case Keenum fans, y'all have a lot of capacity for hope.

If he is the guy to lead us, then I wish him all the luck in the world. If he's not... eh. Nothing lost for me.
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Hey, I also said pre-draft that I have no problem taking JFF in the third.
If not for off - the field question mark, I would have taken him in the second.
Then, I was even willing to take him at 2.1

I like him as a QB; however his style of play has a good percentage of getting him hurt and he might not be able to adjust to play within the pocket with as great proficiency as he did in college.

Those are the risks I would rather not take in the first round.

If I was a coach and/or GM, I would hope that either Keenum or Savage can play up to a certain level of proficiency so I can use a future first round on an offensive weapon or to build the O-line.

There are many ways to skin a cat.
 
So, who's all for waiting for training camp and pre-season to sort all this out? Anyone?

Then again, what's the fun in that?
 
Thorn said:
So, who's all for waiting for training camp and pre-season to sort all this out? Anyone?

Then again, what's the fun in that?
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I'm all about letting training camp and preseason sorting this out. I'm still going to "discuss" it ad nauseam.
:fans:
 
76Texan said:
All young QBs starting for the first time in the NFL need some work in certain aspects of their game.

Think of the 18 INTs Luck threw his rookie year.
And I've mentioned I noted at least five should have been INTS and 5 near misses or so in his gist six games (I didn't watch the rest of his games in detail so I don't know whether there were other drops and/or near-misses.)

Wilson, on the other hand, needed to make plays often with his feet. Some of those occasions were because he didn't make the correct reads in order to get the ball out on time.

Even veterans miss their reads at times.
Schaub for example, missed some CB blitzes that resulted in sacks.
If I remember correctly, he got hurt on one of those occasions.
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Trying to compare luck to keenum is not a good look. Even though luclk has been middle of the road stat wise, he makes game winning plays. Indy has really nothing specialmin terms of talent. Avg run game and stopping the run. Avg o-line and d-line,but luck makes plays. Keenan, if he had something, he shouldve been able to win a game despitebwhats going on. 1 game,thats it. Case couldnt even do that. I dont see these kinda threads for yates and he beat cincy on the road .He took the team downfield in a 2 minute drill and got it done.
 
76Texan said:
All young QBs starting for the first time in the NFL need some work in certain aspects of their game.
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leebigeztx said:
Trying to compare luck to keenum is not a good look. Even though luclk has been middle of the road stat wise, he makes game winning plays.
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So what are we really saying?

I think 76Texan has a point. All young QBs struggle in one way or another. I can see a coach looking at Case & thinking, "I can win with that."

At the same time I agree with leebigeztx... there were moments when the ball was in Case's hands & he simply did not make the plays needed to win the game. We lost several games by 3 or less, a few more by 7 or less.

Maybe there was one where Case made the plays, only to be let down by the fat Hobbit.

Then again, if Arian can come back & be that closer he was... or if Prosch & Blue can close out games... maybe Case can be "enough" for now. (Maybe Tj can)
 
leebigeztx said:
Trying to compare luck to keenum is not a good look. Even though luclk has been middle of the road stat wise, he makes game winning plays. Indy has really nothing specialmin terms of talent. Avg run game and stopping the run. Avg o-line and d-line,but luck makes plays. Keenan, if he had something, he shouldve been able to win a game despitebwhats going on. 1 game,thats it. Case couldnt even do that. I dont see these kinda threads for yates and he beat cincy on the road .He took the team downfield in a 2 minute drill and got it done.
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Think of all the talent Yates had to work with, that was easily the most talented team the texans have ever had. In Keenums first start we had 0 running backs, we had greg jones playing running back, we had one TE.

We all know how much defenses respect Foster, and how much pressure he took off Schaub. Keenum didn't have that luxury, and you can say that we still had tate but teams didnt fear tate like they did Foster and rightfully so.

And stat wise in first year luck and keenum were very similar

Luck - 54.1 comp% - 6.98 avg - QBR 65.2 - RAT 76.5
Keenum - 54.2 comp% - 6.96 avg - QBR 34.5 - RAT 78.2

And dont say that all that matters is wins and losses, last season was lost way before Case was given a shot. Give him a shot with a healthy team and where there is not a coach breathing down his neck ready to pull him first chance he gets.
 
leebigeztx said:
Trying to compare luck to keenum is not a good look. Even though luclk has been middle of the road stat wise, he makes game winning plays. Indy has really nothing specialmin terms of talent. Avg run game and stopping the run. Avg o-line and d-line,but luck makes plays. Keenan, if he had something, he shouldve been able to win a game despitebwhats going on. 1 game,thats it. Case couldnt even do that. I dont see these kinda threads for yates and he beat cincy on the road .He took the team downfield in a 2 minute drill and got it done.
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1. Comparison is one thing; conclusion is another.
Do not forget that even before Luck plays a single down in the NFL, I already projected him as a starting QB at the next level.
I just thought that it was premature to automatically put him as a shoe-in to join the elite guys like Peyton, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers.
On the other hand, I said that with his limited stature, Keenum needs to learn to play smart like Brees to be an NFL QB. So far, he has yet to that ability.
But it's still a little early to come to a conclusion, so I give him an I.
 
2. Indy defense gave up 387 points while the Texans D allowed 428 points.
And I have determined some time ago that Schaub was less burdened by this (by a smidgen.)
Overall, Luck had about a 3 - point advantage over Keenum from his defense.

The Colts D also forced a few more turnovers (about 4 or 5).

The ST gave Luck a little better field position (about 4-5 yards. )

I don't have the numbers for Pass-Pro, even though I did an estimate on this before; the Colts line gave Luck a little better protection.

The Colts receivers did not have a case of dropsies like the Texans'.
We all heard how Wayne found a fountain of youth while Hilton and Allen were steals.
Even Avery had a better year than his norm (independent of QB play.)

Keenum faced 5 winning teams in the 8 games he played.
Luck faced 5 the whole year.

I mean, the list goes on.
 
76Texan said:
2. Indy defense gave up 387 points while the Texans D allowed 428 points.
And I have determined some time ago that Schaub was less burdened by this (by a smidgen.)
Overall, Luck had about a 3 - point advantage over Keenum from his defense.

The Colts D also forced a few more turnovers (about 4 or 5).

The ST gave Luck a little better field position (about 4-5 yards. )

I don't have the numbers for Pass-Pro, even though I did an estimate on this before; the Colts line gave Luck a little better protection.

The Colts receivers did not have a case of dropsies like the Texans'.
We all heard how Wayne found a fountain of youth while Hilton and Allen were steals.
Even Avery had a better year than his norm (independent of QB play.)

Keenum faced 5 winning teams in the 8 games he played.
Luck faced 5 the whole year.

I mean, the list goes on.
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Keenum's days as a Texan are not long .
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
Keenum's days as a Texan are not long .
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Sure.

If Keenum doesn't improve in TC while Yates does, I can see Keenum getting cut.
I don't think that's going to happen though.

There's also a chance that Keenum gets hurt; which is something I don't wish for.

The Texans might be able to swing a deal for a QB that OB really likes and the guy somehow fell off favor with his team.

There's also a tiny chance that somehow the light bulb goes off in Savage's head and he impresses the heck out of everybody such that OB is comfortable enough to carry just two QBS on the roster.

Anything can happen.
 
Why are we comparing him to Luck? Because Luck didn´t have that great numbers his first season and yet no one is questioning him? Luck had major problems his first season, but (and that`s a big but) he has:

1. Prototypical size, arm and brain
2. Still led several game winning drives

Other QBs had great first years, like Newton or RG3. All that has nothing to do with Keenum. Like I said, I like Keenum. I think he deserved his shot and I think he did better than all the NFL expected. And he should get a chance in camp to prove he is starter material to OB. But so far he hasn`t earned himself anything.

If he wants the starting job he needs to go at camp like Russell Wilson did. He wasn`t supposed to start, his team just traded for a QB. But he played great in camp and in preseason and earned his starting job. That`s what Keenum needs to do. And frankly, it has never been easier. Yates is Yates, probably never more than a backup QB if he can stay in the league at all. Fitzpatrick is a journeyman in the NFL, a QB that noone believes can be our future and a guy that is new to the team. And Savage is a 4th rounder with major question marks that hasn`t played football for a thousand days in between seasons in college.

So, if Keenum is as good as a lot of people here think (and I hope), he should go out there and win the job. If he can`t beat out Fitzpatrick, Yates and Savage after 2 years in the league and starting 8 games, he doesn`t deserve the job.
 
LikeMike said:
Why are we comparing him to Luck? Because Luck didn´t have that great numbers his first season and yet no one is questioning him? Luck had major problems his first season, but (and that`s a big but) he has:

1. Prototypical size, arm and brain
2. Still led several game winning drives

Other QBs had great first years, like Newton or RG3. All that has nothing to do with Keenum. Like I said, I like Keenum. I think he deserved his shot and I think he did better than all the NFL expected. And he should get a chance in camp to prove he is starter material to OB. But so far he hasn`t earned himself anything.

If he wants the starting job he needs to go at camp like Russell Wilson did. He wasn`t supposed to start, his team just traded for a QB. But he played great in camp and in preseason and earned his starting job. That`s what Keenum needs to do. And frankly, it has never been easier. Yates is Yates, probably never more than a backup QB if he can stay in the league at all. Fitzpatrick is a journeyman in the NFL, a QB that noone believes can be our future and a guy that is new to the team. And Savage is a 4th rounder with major question marks that hasn`t played football for a thousand days in between seasons in college.

So, if Keenum is as good as a lot of people here think (and I hope), he should go out there and win the job. If he can`t beat out Fitzpatrick, Yates and Savage after 2 years in the league and starting 8 games, he doesn`t deserve the job.
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Exactly.
 
BTW, TK, it was Nick Foles that I wanted to mention, not Fales.

Fales was on the radar, but he fell off quickly with more tapes against pressure.

On Foles, I had responded to a poster who asked me at the time.
I responded that I like Foles when I scouted the other guys that we now have on the team.
He just held on to the ball a little too long.
That is a concern, having reservation about Kolb some years earlier.
Otherwise, Foles was a solid prospect in the mid-round.

I think this is easier to fix than the ability to perform under pressure.
What I mean is that Foles didn't crumble under pressure; he just had a propensity to hold on to the ball a bit longer than I like.
Whether the guys can fix these habits, nobody can tell.
But it did not look to me like he was slow in his read progression (as compared to the number of prospects over the year.)

Bortles is different.
I like him too.
But I did mention to you once that I don't like his mechanics.
It's a bad habit (more than one) that fails him when the pressure is on.
He was able to do well with fewer pressure in college.
Can he correct his mechanics to become a good NFL QB?
That is another million - dollar question I'd rather not have with a first round pick, especially high in the order.
 
leebigeztx said:
Trying to compare luck to keenum is not a good look. Even though luclk has been middle of the road stat wise, he makes game winning plays. Indy has really nothing specialmin terms of talent. Avg run game and stopping the run. Avg o-line and d-line,but luck makes plays. Keenan, if he had something, he shouldve been able to win a game despitebwhats going on. 1 game,thats it. Case couldnt even do that. I dont see these kinda threads for yates and he beat cincy on the road .He took the team downfield in a 2 minute drill and got it done.
Click to expand...


Look at how many "gimme" games Luck "lucked" into playing in a horrid division playing horrid teams. When you figure his wins and then look at how many of those came out of the 6 games in which he played the Jags, Tack, and Texans each year, it puts Luck's performance in more accurate perspective.
 
Luck has the most come from behind wins and 4th quarter heroics of any young QB I can recall, he may even hold some kind of record for game winning drives as a rookie, trying to discredit him in any way is really not doing the game any justice.

Keenum is on this team because he's cheap. simple as that.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Luck has the most come from behind wins and 4th quarter heroics of any young QB I can recall, he may even hold some kind of record for game winning drives as a rookie, trying to discredit him in any way is really not doing the game any justice.

Keenum is on this team because he's cheap. simple as that.
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Stating the obvious is easy.
 
EllisUnit said:
Luck - 54.1 comp% - 6.98 avg - QBR 65.2 - RAT 76.5
Keenum - 54.2 comp% - 6.96 avg - QBR 34.5 - RAT 78.2
Click to expand...

Ever hear that saying, "Stats don't lie"?

Or the one, "Stats don't tell the whole story"?


EsPN's QBR is supposed to bridge the gap between those two statements.

While the agregate stats do look similar, comp%, ypa, passer rating... The QBR says that Luck's play helped his team win "way" more than Case's did (if it's a linear scale, then nearly twice as much).
 
thunderkyss said:
Ever hear that saying, "Stats don't lie"?

Or the one, "Stats don't tell the whole story"?


EsPN's QBR is supposed to bridge the gap between those two statements.

While the agregate stats do look similar, comp%, ypa, passer rating... The QBR says that Luck's play helped his team win "way" more than Case's did (if it's a linear scale, then nearly twice as much).
Click to expand...

Yeah i agree but his QBR was really good his first 4 starts, it went to crap after that. Well once he started trying to stay in the pocket anyways.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Look at how many "gimme" games Luck "lucked" into playing in a horrid division playing horrid teams. When you figure his wins and then look at how many of those came out of the 6 games in which he played the Jags, Tack, and Texans each year, it puts Luck's performance in more accurate perspective.
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Luck also beat seattle,sf,and denver. Those same gimme games, case had also. Case played jax twice,titans,raiders, Case also played vs colts,kc and couldn't win a single game. Playing qb is very difficult,moreso than we make it on this board. Playing qb also calls for the guy to perform despite the environment. Luck lost reggie wayne,the couldn't run the ball and he still guided the colts to 11 wins.

In the last 10 yrs, which is a lifetime in the nfl,how many udfa qbs have been solid starters? The only guy I can come up with is Romo. Not to mention,we're not talking about a elite or top shelf who was hidden at some naia school. If say a guy like savage went undrafted because of something,his golf bag is full of clubs. I could see a team trying to develop his traits. That's why,right or wrong ,logan thomas was drafted higher than most thought. Kellen moore,case keenum types are really worthy of upside discussions imo. Not a lot of talented college qbs goes undrafted.
 
leebigeztx said:
Luck also beat seattle,sf,and denver. Those same gimme games, case had also. Case played jax twice,titans,raiders, Case also played vs colts,kc and couldn't win a single game. Playing qb is very difficult,moreso than we make it on this board. Playing qb also calls for the guy to perform despite the environment. Luck lost reggie wayne,the couldn't run the ball and he still guided the colts to 11 wins.

In the last 10 yrs, which is a lifetime in the nfl,how many udfa qbs have been solid starters? The only guy I can come up with is Romo. Not to mention,we're not talking about a elite or top shelf who was hidden at some naia school. If say a guy like savage went undrafted because of something,his golf bag is full of clubs. I could see a team trying to develop his traits. That's why,right or wrong ,logan thomas was drafted higher than most thought. Kellen moore,case keenum types are really worthy of upside discussions imo. Not a lot of talented college qbs goes undrafted.
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LB, you're going in circle, man.
Let me restate this for you.
In the respective year they first started, Keenum played against five winning teams with several main pieces around him on the shelves while Luck played 5 winning teams the whole year with a full deck.

Don't lump one year with the next.
 
EllisUnit said:
Yeah i agree but his QBR was really good his first 4 starts, it went to crap after that. Well once he started trying to stay in the pocket anyways.
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Once opposing defenses focused on keeping him inside the pocket... That is an important distinction. Keenum has some physical limitations that give defenses an advantage. That is an objective truth. Perhaps he can overcome them. His physical skill set simply reduces his margin for error and requires him to compensate in other areas. I am rooting for him. What I saw last year, though, is an excellent college QB and leader play his best football early. Then, as defenses scouted him, they forced him to do the things he can't do consistently- like throw intermediate passes from the pocket. Unless he can figure out how to do that consistently, he can not succeed in the NFL.
 
dalemurphy said:
Once opposing defenses focused on keeping him inside the pocket... That is an important distinction. Keenum has some physical limitations that give defenses an advantage. That is an objective truth. Perhaps he can overcome them. His physical skill set simply reduces his margin for error and requires him to compensate in other areas. I am rooting for him. What I saw last year, though, is an excellent college QB and leader play his best football early. Then, as defenses scouted him, they forced him to do the things he can't do consistently- like throw intermediate passes from the pocket. Unless he can figure out how to do that consistently, he can not succeed in the NFL.
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I keep disagreeing with the part about teams figuring out Keenum.

The Texans got beat on Pass-Pro in non - blitzing situations a whole more than they should.
If they can just be average, it would give Keenum a hair more time (like a quarter of a second to half a second) on three or four plays per game.

If they were as good as the year that had them ranked in the top ten in pass-pro, it would have made a huge difference.

Sure, Keenum made some mistakes, but that is expected from a first time starter.

Missing OD, Foster, and Tate didn't help either.
Not only the run game suffered, but blitz pickup was poor by the other RBs.

The pass catchers were dropping more balls than ever.

And the defense didn't help put pressure on the opponents by bailing them out too often as compared to their best year.

I'm quite optimistic this year.
 
Also, my thinking is that Kubiak wanted Case to stay in the pocket more.

I think that's the right way to develop a QB.

You don't want them to make a habit of pulling up too often.


Remember how Kubiak said in one of the preaser; that he wants Keenum to trust his protection more?

Alas, his protection wasn't up to snub.


Why did you think Kubiak drafted Quiz, B Williams and Griffin?

Why do you think the Texans let go of W Smith, draft a LG, a blocking TE, a big FB, a big back, and sign another big back to replace Tate?
 
76Texan said:
Also, my thinking is that Kubiak wanted Case to stay in the pocket more.

I think that's the right way to develop a QB.

You don't want them to make a habit of pulling up too often.


Remember how Kubiak said in one of the preaser; that he wants Keenum to trust his protection more?

Alas, his protection wasn't up to snub.


Why did you think Kubiak drafted Quiz, B Williams and Griffin?

Why do you think the Texans let go of W Smith, draft a LG, a blocking TE, a big FB, a big back, and sign another big back to replace Tate?
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Idk, Gary should have let Case play more to his strengths. Andy Reid tried to make Vick more of a pocket passer, but Vick made his money running around
 
76Texan said:
I keep disagreeing with the part about teams figuring out Keenum.

The Texans got beat on Pass-Pro in non - blitzing situations a whole more than they should.
If they can just be average, it would give Keenum a hair more time (like a quarter of a second to half a second) on three or four plays per game.

If they were as good as the year that had them ranked in the top ten in pass-pro, it would have made a huge difference.

Sure, Keenum made some mistakes, but that is expected from a first time starter.

Missing OD, Foster, and Tate didn't help either.
Not only the run game suffered, but blitz pickup was poor by the other RBs.

The pass catchers were dropping more balls than ever.

And the defense didn't help put pressure on the opponents by bailing them out too often as compared to their best year.

I'm quite optimistic this year.
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Protection was so bad, that on many plays, Keenum had less than 2.5 seconds before the D was on top of him........not enough time (even for the elite QB) to get rid of the ball or even the hot read to develop. Sure, he could have taken a load of sacks, or tried for what more likely would have been an interception than a reception. "Trusting the protection" and staying in the pocket was hardly an effective option. Although running backwards trying to extend plays many times did not pan out very well, it was one of the only options that gave much of a chance to move the ball forward.
 
Someone is going to have to explain how the OL protection went from no excuse at all for Schaub to so bad Keenum cannot be judged at all.

DB and Brooks got better as the season progressed.
Newton and Smith sucked all season long.
Myers was steady all season.

I'm thinking the answer is somewhere in the middle.
 
Schaub had a running game to keep Ds honest. Also, after I went back and watched some of the games, it was pretty evident that by the time Keenum took over, the D was also consistently able to come right up through the middle, a rush that even the most seasoned QB has difficulties with, let alone a neophyte.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Schaub had a running game to keep Ds honest. Also, after I went back and watched some of the games, it was pretty evident that by the time Keenum took over, the D was also consistently able to come right up through the middle, a rush that even the most seasoned QB has difficulties with, let alone a neophyte.
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While having a running game plays a role in pass protection, it is not a free pass for the OL. The Texans led the league in passing with the 30th rushing attack (yards). Last year the Texans averaged 4.2 ypa (20th in yards and 15th in ypa) v. 3.5 ypa (31st on ypa) that season.

The Ds were able to come up the middle and not pay for it with Keenum in the game so they came full bore after it. Schaub reacted better to it as a vet should.

I'm not trying to laud Schaub or say Keenum has nothing more he can show. But I think the psychitzophrenic OL card is being overplayed both against Schaub and for Keenum.
 
infantrycak said:
While having a running game plays a role in pass protection, it is not a free pass for the OL. The Texans led the league in passing with the 30th rushing attack (yards). Last year the Texans averaged 4.2 ypa (20th in yards and 15th in ypa) v. 3.5 ypa (31st on ypa) that season.

The Ds were able to come up the middle and not pay for it with Keenum in the game so they came full bore after it. Schaub reacted better to it as a vet should.

I'm not trying to laud Schaub or say Keenum has nothing more he can show. But I think the psychitzophrenic OL card is being overplayed both against Schaub and for Keenum.
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Yeah but defenses did not have to fear foster either. Keenum only had Foster for what a quarter while he was starting. Teams did not fear nor respect Tate like they did Foster. So they were not worried about getting beat by the running game which in turn affects the pass protection and what defenses throw at you IMO.
 
EllisUnit said:
Yeah but defenses did not have to fear foster either. Keenum only had Foster for what a quarter while he was starting. Teams did not fear nor respect Tate like they did Foster. So they were not worried about getting beat by the running game which in turn affects the pass protection and what defenses throw at you IMO.
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I acknowledged that but that is a factor, not the whole game. As I said, with the 30th/31st ranked rushing attack (if being offensively bad can be considered an attack) with no RBs anyone feared led the league in passing with the sloth footed Schaub at QB. I am not saying pass pro including the running game shouldn't be a factor in evaluating Keenum because it absolutely should but it isn't the free pass some are making it out to be.
 
76Texan said:
Also, my thinking is that Kubiak wanted Case to stay in the pocket more.

I think that's the right way to develop a QB.

You don't want them to make a habit of pulling up too often.


Remember how Kubiak said in one of the preaser; that he wants Keenum to trust his protection more?
Click to expand...

I can understand Kubiak's thinking, & we should constantly work towards getting better, every game, every practice.

But I don't think this is the sort of thing we need to be working on during the season. He screwed up is what it comes down to & I knew it was going to happen.

I like Tj, but I don't think Kubiak bought into him being the future of the Texans. I believe that's what they saw when they looked at Case. But because we were "supposed" to be in the Super Bowl in 2013, he played it safe, kept Tj as the back up leaving Case on the practice Squad.

Case isn't learning the system if he's running the scout team. Who ever, whatever made them decide to go with Case at that point in his career didn't make a whole lot of sense.

76Texan said:
Alas, his protection wasn't up to snub.
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Alas.... it looked worse when Case was in than it did with Schaub or Tj.
 
First time starters have these kinds of issues. I'm not going to make excuses for Keenum because I don't think they're necessary. The only question now is does he come back with a sense of urgency and more information in his head and can he apply that to produce an improved performance for OB.

I don't think he knew how to make defenses pay for what they were doing to him. At least not at this level/speed. If he doesn't learn it then he has no future as an NFL QB because only the ones who can do that last any length of time.
 
EllisUnit said:
Yeah but defenses did not have to fear foster either. Keenum only had Foster for what a quarter while he was starting. Teams did not fear nor respect Tate like they did Foster. So they were not worried about getting beat by the running game which in turn affects the pass protection and what defenses throw at you IMO.
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That argument goes out the window when you see how the Jags treated Schaub when Case got benched.

No Foster for either.

The risk/reward ratio totally flopped when we put a QB back there that knew what he was doing.

Case needs to get better, period. Even if Foster was in the game, they won't respect him if they continue to force negative or net 0 plays.
 
thunderkyss said:
I like Tj, but I don't think Kubiak bought into him being the future of the Texans. I believe that's what they saw when they looked at Case. But because we were "supposed" to be in the Super Bowl in 2013, he played it safe, kept Tj as the back up leaving Case on the practice Squad.

Case isn't learning the system if he's running the scout team. Who ever, whatever made them decide to go with Case at that point in his career didn't make a whole lot of sense.
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Keenum wasn't on the practice squad last season.

I don't buy the not learning the system argument either. Keenum was sitting through all the film breakdown with Schaub. If he isn't learning anything from that, it's on him. (Yes more reps would be better but it isn't all or nothing.)
 
infantrycak said:
Keenum wasn't on the practice squad last season.
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Right I meant running the scout team.

infantrycak said:
I don't buy the not learning the system argument either. Keenum was sitting through all the film breakdown with Schaub. If he isn't learning anything from that, it's on him. (Yes more reps would be better but it isn't all or nothing.)
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Agreed. I kept waiting for it to start clicking for him. For that light to go off in his head, "Ah, now I see" but it never happened.
 
I don't know about being a rookie in the NFL, but I know that in highschool and college, watching film as a young player is different than watching it as an established vet...

As a young player it's harder translate what you learn from watching film to what you see in live action because your head is still spinning. You don't fully understand what's going on.

I would imagine in the NFL it's similar, but muuuuuuuch harder.

You can watch all the film you want...study the whole playbook up and down...But that live action is a different animal...Even going out in practice against your defense or the scout team defense can be a big help...
 
I'll have the 2nd Jags game break down later on, having an off - day.

Sure, Keenum made a few mistakes, but it wasn't like the Jags had him figured out.

How many points did we score on the Pats the previous week?

The O-line had problem with pass-pro all year long.
I didn't really cursed Schaub out, but I definitely can live without the pick sixes.
 
dalemurphy said:
Once opposing defenses focused on keeping him inside the pocket... That is an important distinction. Keenum has some physical limitations that give defenses an advantage. That is an objective truth. Perhaps he can overcome them. His physical skill set simply reduces his margin for error and requires him to compensate in other areas. I am rooting for him. What I saw last year, though, is an excellent college QB and leader play his best football early. Then, as defenses scouted him, they forced him to do the things he can't do consistently- like throw intermediate passes from the pocket. Unless he can figure out how to do that consistently, he can not succeed in the NFL.
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Preach on my brother. Pay attention to Case's highlight reel Cloak posted. just about every throw on that highlight reel was him throwing the ball to a WR well outside of the hashes or just outside of the hashes - well away from the clutter in the middle. When he wasn't throwing those passes he was throwing way deep over the defense......away from the clutter in the middle.

Another thing to note is most times when he was throwing deep he was running around well outside of the pocket and/or he was in shotgun. Some of that is Sumlin's system ingrained in him.... constantly challenging deep & feeling most comfortable in shotgun..... but some of it is his limitations too; It's pretty clear he can't see well inside the pocket to throw those intermediate passes in the middle of the defense...He needs to be in shotgun or away from the bulk of where everyone is to see the field well. That AZ game where he nearly had 3 passes picked off b/c he was forced to throw it more in the middle of the defense also makes it pretty clear that he doesn't have the arm strength to pull off throwing in their a ton.

& sorry to say those seam passes in the middle to the TE's are a staple of OB's offense so Case is facing an uphill battle to even be on the roster this year.
 
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