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Clowney, then what?

IDEXAN said:
I too am a big Sammy W. fan, and yea he's very talented, but I wouldn't compare him to Calvin J. or even our Johnson because he just doesn't have the size and length of those kinds of receivers. But to me there's only two non-QB positions you'd consider for the #1 overall and that's OLT and an edge-rusher, be it a standup 3-4 guy or a hand-in-the-dirt 4-3 DE.
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Watkins isn't physically the same sort of CJ/AJ receiver, but I think he's going to be as much of a game-changer as they are. I think he's going to be EXTREMELY productive and have the ability to put up the same sorts of stats as CJ/AJ, even if not in exactly the same ways.

Duane Brown has probably got 5 years left to his career which means if we'd draft Robinson (or another OT), he's not playing LT until we'd get to his second contract, and that's just too much, too long for a long-term RT.
And I hope you are right about Quess, but I don't think we saw enough of him before he went IR to judge him our answer as one of our OLine starters. But hope I'm mistaken, I mean maybe he's our RT, maybe huh ?
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We don't know what's going to happen to DB. He might get 5-10 years. He might not. Robinson provides a security blanket in case anything does happen. And if he out-performs DB, he can take over the LT spot and we'll see what happens.

When I saw the tape of Quess at the Senior Bowl and in the Senior Bowl practices, I saw a guy who could fill that RT spot. But he's position flexible. If we have Robinson, Quess could slide in and at least have a shot of filling that LG spot. I think that would be a great line.
 
thunderkyss said:
Not necessarily, he may be better than Duane Brown from day 1... doubt it, but it's possible. He may be the better choice for LT next season.

If we keep trying to improve the bottom of the roster, we'll continue to have problems with depth. If instead we improve the top of the roster, we'll always have depth.
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The KC Chiefs drafted LT Fischer #1 overall and played him at RT during 2013, knowing they would lose their starting LT after the 20132 season, which they have, and now it's Fischer job. But we signed Duane to a new, 6-year contract in 2012, so he's got 4 years left on it and he's in his prime as he'll still be under 30 after the completion of the upcoming season. So we are set at LT and have higher priorities elsewhere, like finding a stud edge rusher to help JJ put some real pressure on Luck and the rest of the competition.
 
IDEXAN said:
The KC Chiefs drafted LT Fischer #1 overall and played him at RT during 2013, knowing they would lose their starting LT after the 20132 season, which they have, and now it's Fischer job. But we signed Duane to a new, 6-year contract in 2012, so he's got 4 years left on it and he's in his prime as he'll still be under 30 after the completion of the upcoming season. So we are set at LT and have higher priorities elsewhere, like finding a stud edge rusher to help JJ put some real pressure on Luck and the rest of the competition.
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Once you start thinking that, it's the beginning of the end. NFL.... not for long. Everytime Duane gets a boo-boo, my sphincter tightens up. If you thought we looked bad, imagine a season where Duane has to miss seven or more games.

& I don't believe we have any priority higher than OL. Fix the OL, you fix the running game & the passing game. Pick up 3rd & short, pick up 4th & 1, you help the defense as well.
 
I don't believe we have any priority higher than OL. Fix the OL, you fix the running game & the passing game. Pick up 3rd & short, pick up 4th & 1, you help the defense as well.
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Our pass defense was putrid with a capital PU. We were at the bottom of the leagues in sacks last year and we've lost Smith. I think pass rush and DL is every bit as important at the OL. IMHO, I'd rank needs as pass rush, OL and QB. The only reason I have QB this low is I don't see a sure upgrade available and we can't fix everything.
 
thunderkyss said:
Once you start thinking that, it's the beginning of the end. NFL.... not for long. Everytime Duane gets a boo-boo, my sphincter tightens up. If you thought we looked bad, imagine a season where Duane has to miss seven or more games.

& I don't believe we have any priority higher than OL. Fix the OL, you fix the running game & the passing game. Pick up 3rd & short, pick up 4th & 1, you help the defense as well.
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This. Before each of the last two seasons I was pleading for us to get a quality RT because I saw that as our biggest weakness. Now I would say our subpar RT play is the biggest reasons for our recent troubles.

Robinson or Matthews could play RT for as long, as D. Brown is performing at a high level. Spending a #1 pick for a RT might seem costly, but I think it would be a great fundamental piece that sets up our offense for 10 years to come. As insurance, as LT in the future and as RT for the next couple of years.
 
Former South Carolina defensive standout Jadeveon Clowney was at Monday night’s game in Charlotte.

Following the Rockets’ win over the Bobcats, he visited the Rockets locker room. Center Dwight Howard took a microphone and did an impromptu interview with Clowney for an upcoming episode of The Dwight Howard Show on CSN.

In the interview, Howard told Clowney that he would love to see him in a Texans uniform next season. Clowney responded that he, too, hoped he would be headed Houston.
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http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterocke...ney-visits-with-rockets-players-in-charlotte/
 
On Clowney's effort...

"I've studied him pretty closely, and not to make an excuse for anyone, but in college there's 85-90 plays a game. He plays all the time, and I think if you look at any player in college, especially at the defensive line spot, playing in a league were most of the teams are in the shotgun, throwing the ball and you're rushing the passer, I dare you to find a guy who plays 90 snaps like his life's on the line every game. But when the game's on the line, Jadeveon plays hard."

"He's an explosive player, he's a productive player, he's an instinctive player. So I think that's kind of blown out of proportion.''

-- Bill O'Brien

Ryan Lownes ‏@ryanlownes
The only college defender I can remember having a similar psychological impact on QBs was Ndamukong Suh.

South Carolina could have given QBs and offensive coordinators fits if they'd been willing to move Clowney all over the formation.

Watching QBs vs. South Carolina from an endzone angle doesn't get old. Amazing how much Jadaveon Clowney gets in their heads. #Scared
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Browns' Pettine wouldn't be 'upset' to draft Jadeveon Clowney
While he didn't let on that the Browns would consider trading up to get a player, Pettine made it clear he would be more than happy if a player like Jadeveon Clowney fell into his lap.

"Freakish athlete," Pettine told cleveland.com. "I think he could take over a game. I think he could change a game. He's proven that. I had good interaction with him (at the NFL Scouting Combine) in Indianapolis. As a defensive head coach, I don't know if I'd be all that upset to turn the card in on Clowney with the fourth pick."

It would probably take a small miracle for the Texans, Rams and Jaguars to all pass on Clowney, but stranger things have happened at Radio City Music Hall...
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It would probably take a small miracle for the Texans, Rams and Jaguars to all pass on Clowney, but stranger things have happened at Radio City Music Hall...
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With Long & Quinn, the Rams will probably take an OT which means if we pass on Clowney, we will have to play Clowney twice a year every year for years and years because I'm sure the Jags won't pass on him.
 
IDEXAN said:
It would probably take a small miracle for the Texans, Rams and Jaguars to all pass on Clowney, but stranger things have happened at Radio City Music Hall...
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With Long & Quinn, the Rams will probably take an OT which means if we pass on Clowney, we will have to play Clowney twice a year every year for years and years because I'm sure the Jags won't pass on him.
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Im not too concerned about playing Clowney in a Jax uniform , that's about the worst scenario for Clowney.

His success much like those QB's will be determined by the coaching he gets .... Jax is a train wreck of epic proportions. He'll go there and be a busted part of that train wreck.
 
Corrosion said:
Im not too concerned about playing Clowney in a Jax uniform , that's about the worst scenario for Clowney.

His success much like those QB's will be determined by the coaching he gets .... Jax is a train wreck of epic proportions. He'll go there and be a busted part of that train wreck.
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I thought they swept us last year ?
 
Per Jason La CanFora Twitter:
"Make of it what you will, but Texans owner, coach GM are meeting and dining w/Clowney night before South Carolina pro day a week from today"
 
Corrosion said:
Im not too concerned about playing Clowney in a Jax uniform , that's about the worst scenario for Clowney.

His success much like those QB's will be determined by the coaching he gets .... Jax is a train wreck of epic proportions. He'll go there and be a busted part of that train wreck.
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That is exactly where I hope he does go. He doesn't deserve a good situation after dogging it in his senior season. Plus, I would like To see the Jags struggle to keep him motivated.
 
bOODRO87 said:
JJ & JD. It will happen.
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I'm starting to believe this more and more.

Also, I wouldn't mind if the Texans took AJ McCarron in the 3rd. Usually players with chip on their shoulders tend to work harder to prove that they belong in the next level. (Foster, Brady, Rodgers come to mind)
 
infantrycak said:
They have had 1 winning season in the last 8 years and that was 7 years ago. Sweeping us in a bad year doesn't make them any less of a train wreck.
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2013 Season: Texans 2-14, Jags 4-12
Bill Parcells: "You are what your record says you are."
 
The Pencil Neck said:
And so they're NOT a train-wreck? Just because we happen to be worse?

I think you're looking at 2 train wrecks there.
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Can't argue with that, but I wonder if they aren't headed in the right direction quicker than us ? They've landed a couple descent vets in FA while we've done nothing, and Henne is better than our addition at QB IMO.
 
IDEXAN said:
Can't argue with that, but I wonder if they aren't headed in the right direction quicker than us ? They've landed a couple descent vets in FA while we've done nothing, and Henne is better than our addition at QB IMO.
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I think we have a better base to work from.
 
IDEXAN said:
2013 Season: Texans 2-14, Jags 4-12
Bill Parcells: "You are what your record says you are."
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The Pencil Neck said:
And so they're NOT a train-wreck? Just because we happen to be worse?

I think you're looking at 2 train wrecks there.
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IDEXAN said:
Can't argue with that, but I wonder if they aren't headed in the right direction quicker than us ? They've landed a couple descent vets in FA while we've done nothing, and Henne is better than our addition at QB IMO.
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The Pencil Neck said:
I think we have a better base to work from.
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Honoring Earl 34 said:
They are the trainwreck from " The Fugitive " and we are the one from that John Wayne movie where Dean Martin blew up the bridge .
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thunderkyss said:
Our season was a trainwreck. Jacksonville is a trainwreck... see the difference?
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In this last year I have become a BIG fan of Gus Bradley. He could become one of the better Head Coaches in the NFL. That is all!
 
Texian said:
In this last year I have become a BIG fan of Gus Bradley. He could become one of the better Head Coaches in the NFL. That is all!
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I've come to respect Pagano as a head-coach. I already like Whisenhunt, wanted him here. I liked Gus Bradley as well... I think he's paid his dues & it's time to see if he's ready.

I've got nothing against OB... He was on my short list of "coaches to hire"

But yeah, the coaching in the AFC South just got a whole lot better. I hope we can keep up.
 
ObsiWan said:
NFL.com stuck this at the bottom of this article

:wadepalm:
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Nine is a long way back , they'd have to give me the moon and the stars to make that jump. I think there are about six (6) premium players at the top and would be hard pressed to move back beyond the point that I guarantee myself one of them.
 
Corrosion said:
Nine is a long way back , they'd have to give me the moon and the stars to make that jump. I think there are about six (6) premium players at the top and would be hard pressed to move back beyond the point that I guarantee myself one of them.
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You do a real good Bob McNair impersonation there Corrosion because he also thinks we are close to returning the POs, too bad you don't have a billion, huh ?But what we really need is a handful of solid upgrades to our starting lineup more than one star to jump the moon. Don't get me wrong. I'm all about the Clowney if we have to use that 1.1 ourselves, but more than just a single elite talent we need improvement at quite a few places.
 
Corrosion said:
Nine is a long way back , they'd have to give me the moon and the stars to make that jump. I think there are about six (6) premium players at the top and would be hard pressed to move back beyond the point that I guarantee myself one of them.
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I'd do 1.1 for this year's 1st, 2nd and 3rd & next year's 1st and 2nd - if you get them to throw in this year's 4th so much the better.

* Yes, I know it is 300 pts short on the chart without the 4th. 5 picks in the 1st 3 rounds, at the top of each of the rounds, would be huge for rebuilding, reloading, rewinning.

Let's remember we pulled JJ Watt at 11.
Folks taken from 9-15 in recent drafts:

2013 - Warmack, Fluker, Lotulelei
2012 - Kuechly, Poe, Brockers
2011 - Tyron Smith, Watt, Quinn
2010 - Anthony Davis, Earl Thomas, Pierre-Paul

We're talking serious talent available in a deep rather than top end draft with 3 QBs possibly pushing talent down.
 
infantrycak said:
I'd do 1.1 for this year's 1st, 2nd and 3rd & next year's 1st and 2nd - if you get them to throw in this year's 4th so much the better.



We're talking serious talent available in a deep rather than top end draft with 3 QBs possibly pushing talent down.
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Infantrycak you just don't get it with the point chart do you ? It is only applicable when there's a real value at the head of the Board, and that's not the case this year which means the Texans are gonna have to wheel and deal if they are going to be successful in unloading their 1.1 and if they want to outbid the competition like the Rams and the Jags. In other words, forget about the point conversion for the 1.1 vs the 1.9 in 2014.
If we can get the Bills first 3 picks for our 1.1, do it ASAP.
 
IDEXAN said:
Infantrycak you just don't get it with the point chart do you ? It is only applicable when there's a real value at the head of the Board, and that's not the case this year which means the Texans are gonna have to wheel and deal if they are going to be successful in unloading their 1.1 and if they want to outbid the competition like the Rams and the Jags. In other words, forget about the point conversion for the 1.1 vs the 1.9 in 2014.
If we can get the Bills first 3 picks for our 1.1, do it ASAP.
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He's saying he wants that trade, even at a 300 point deficit. Pretty much saying the same thing, screw the value chart.
 
thunderkyss said:
He's saying he wants that trade, even at a 300 point deficit. Pretty much saying the same thing, screw the value chart.
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Exactly. And...

IDEXAN said:
Infantrycak you just don't get it with the point chart do you ? It is only applicable when there's a real value at the head of the Board, and that's not the case this year which means the Texans are gonna have to wheel and deal if they are going to be successful in unloading their 1.1 and if they want to outbid the competition like the Rams and the Jags. In other words, forget about the point conversion for the 1.1 vs the 1.9 in 2014.
If we can get the Bills first 3 picks for our 1.1, do it ASAP.
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... you're just talking out your ass. There is speculation about the chart. That's it. If Clowney is deemed the prospect of the decade as some less than stellar analysts do then even your rationale for mockery doesn't apply.

Remind me who you want at 1.1 again?
 
If any team in the first round would give us their 1, 2, 3 and next years 1st I would consider taking it.

This is a deep draft and we have some GAPING holes.
 
IDEXAN said:
Infantrycak you just don't get it with the point chart do you ? It is only applicable when there's a real value at the head of the Board, and that's not the case this year which means the Texans are gonna have to wheel and deal if they are going to be successful in unloading their 1.1 and if they want to outbid the competition like the Rams and the Jags. In other words, forget about the point conversion for the 1.1 vs the 1.9 in 2014.
If we can get the Bills first 3 picks for our 1.1, do it ASAP.
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I suppose my question is there someone at the top of this draft worth four or five early picks. Is there really someone Buffalo is willing to give up five picks for?

And to look at it from our viewpoint, assuming they would not offer next year's picks, is there someone so awesome at the top of this draft that we'd pass up three early picks in order to draft? Because that guy represents three other holes that could have been addressed. Is there one guy worth that?
 
For Crennel's defense to be effective it must have quality talent at the OLB positions; and the two highest rated and talented prospects at this position is Clowney and Mack.

Before, I was looking to trade down because I thought Mack would be there at 5 or 6, but now it looks like both Atlanta and Jacksonville may be looking to pass on a QB at the top of the draft, and each take one or the other, and Atlanta may be willing to move up to secure their pick. The possibility that both these players may be gone in the top three picks is too much for me to risk.

My preference is Mack, this hasn't changed. But now I'm less willing to trade down at all and more inclined to stay at 1-1 to secure one of the two players I want.
 
ObsiWan said:
And to look at it from our viewpoint, assuming they would not offer next year's picks, is there someone so awesome at the top of this draft that we'd pass up three early picks in order to draft? Because that guy represents three other holes that could have been addressed. Is there one guy worth that?
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Number19 said:
Before, I was looking to trade down because I thought Mack would be there at 5 or 6, but now it looks like both Atlanta and Jacksonville may be looking to pass on a QB at the top of the draft, and each take one or the other, and Atlanta may be willing to move up to secure their pick. The possibility that both these players may be gone in the top three picks is too much for me to risk.
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Exactly ObsiWan. To put a more real world picture to it. From our mock draft.

Clowney or Mack

v. one of each of the following groups:

09(09) Buffalo Bills (Blake) Jake Matthews - OT - Texas A&M
10(10) Detroit Lions (steelbtexan) Dequeze Dennard - CB - Michigan State
11(11) Tennessee Titans (The Pencil Neck) Justin Gilbert - CB - Oklahoma State
12(12) New York Giants (mussop) Taylor Lewan - OT - Michigan
13(13) St. Louis Rams (RT22) Johnny Manziel - QB - Texas A&M

09(41) Buffalo Bills (Blake) Kelvin Benjamin - WR - Florida State
10(42) Tennessee Titans (The Pencil Neck) Tre Mason - RB - Auburn
11(43) New York Giants (mussop) Troy Niklas - TE - Notre Dame
12(44) St. Louis Rams (RT22) Jace Amaro - TE - Texas Tech
13(45) Detroit Lions (steelbtexan) Austin Seferian-Jenkins - TE - Washington

09(73) Buffalo Bills (Blake) Cyril Richardson - OG - Baylor
10(74) New York Giants (mussop) Ka'Deem Carey - RB - Arizona
11(75) St. Louis Rams (RT22) Carl Bradford - OLB - Arizona State
12(76) Detroit Lions (steelbtexan) Paul Richardson - WR - Colorado
13(77) San Francisco 49ers (WolverineFan) Deone Bucannon - SS - Washington State

Plus whatever picks next year if you can get them.

So hypothetically: Clowney v. Matthews, Seferian-Jenkins & Richardson. I'm going option B.
 
infantrycak said:
... you're just talking out your ass. There is speculation about the chart. That's it. If Clowney is deemed the prospect of the decade as some less than stellar analysts do then even your rationale for mockery doesn't apply.

Remind me who you want at 1.1 again?
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Yea I definitely want Clowney if we can't peddle the pick, but if we could I'd trade it to say ATL for their 1.6 and 2.6, and I would do that deal in a Manhatten minute and be totally happy about it and the Texans would do the same if they know what's good for them.
See here's the deal by comparison to the RGIII trade of 2012: the Rams were able to get those picks (1.6 & 2.6) from the Redskins plus their top picks for both 2013 and 2014. And they had the #2 overall which is by "point value" over 10% less valuable than our #1. In other words, not Clowney or any of the QBs in this Draft has the value of an RGIII.
 
Clowney best attribute is vs the run. People keep talking pass rush,but he's not a natural pass rusher. Barr,don't even put him in the convo either as a pass rusher. I haven't seen enough of mack,but I did like his attributes. If I had to pick a pass rusher, it would be Dee Ford.
 
leebigeztx said:
Clowney best attribute is vs the run. People keep talking pass rush,but he's not a natural pass rusher. Barr,don't even put him in the convo either as a pass rusher. I haven't seen enough of mack,but I did like his attributes. If I had to pick a pass rusher, it would be Dee Ford.
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I beg to differ, Clowney is in the opinion of many the quintessential natural pass-rusher. But yes indeed, his skills against the run are very much underrated.
 
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