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Manziel

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Stemp said:
Not to mention that Texas fans were talking crap all year about Manziel doing the "Cashing out" sign but now it's fair game and a "Drake" thing because Strong did it.
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Mack Brown has really made them a whiny group. I thought it was hilarious when Strong did it and hilarious that Manziel responded to it. Its all in fun and part of the rivalry. They're on 247 with their panties in a bunch over it. Soft as a baby's bottom.
 
Manziel+Strong+Instagram.jpg
 
Also, any of you that have commented in this thread owe it to yourselves to at least watch Gruden's QB Camp with Johnny Manziel. If you keep the same opinions of Manziel after seeing it, fine. But at least attempt some objectivity and watch his session with Gruden. Pretty much the icing on the cake for me as far as the Texans needing to draft him.
 
Say Watt said:
Also, any of you that have commented in this thread owe it to yourselves to at least watch Gruden's QB Camp with Johnny Manziel. If you keep the same opinions of Manziel after seeing it, fine. But at least attempt some objectivity and watch his session with Gruden. Pretty much the icing on the cake for me as far as the Texans needing to draft him.
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I saw and and like the fact he owned up to his mistakes. Didn't shy away from, didn't make excuses, said he did too much and knows he should have done things differently...

I look at like this, if the kid can play, he can play and draft him. If they feel any doubt, trade back, take the player(s) you need and move on...

Either way, gonna be an interesting year....
 
Mr. White said:
I don't know about society, but as a Horn fan I could give a rat's ass.
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It was a damn joke....... Anyone whether they're a Longhorn fan, Aggie Fan, or whatever should be able to laugh at this. If not they need to take the stick out of their ass. My advice to them: Get a twelve pack, grab some weed, and go get laid. You're taking life way too seriously if this bothers anyone.
 
Say Watt said:
Also, any of you that have commented in this thread owe it to yourselves to at least watch Gruden's QB Camp with Johnny Manziel. If you keep the same opinions of Manziel after seeing it, fine. But at least attempt some objectivity and watch his session with Gruden. Pretty much the icing on the cake for me as far as the Texans needing to draft him.
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I watched it and was impressed with Johnny's performance on it....wasn't too crazy about his outfit but he definitely said all the right things.

I actually feel the same way about Maziel that I felt about Vince back in the day. Without a doubt, he seems to have the highest ceiling out of all the prospects in the draft. From an emotional standpoint, I want the Texans to draft him and all the questions and concerns I've got will prove to be a bunch of BS....but all that's based on is emotion.

From a rational standpoint, I don't see it happening. I think the Fitz signing eliminates the possibility of drafting a QB at 1st overall. I think we'll look to trade down and take Clowney if we're not able to do it.
 
Say Watt said:
Also, any of you that have commented in this thread owe it to yourselves to at least watch Gruden's QB Camp with Johnny Manziel. If you keep the same opinions of Manziel after seeing it, fine. But at least attempt some objectivity and watch his session with Gruden. Pretty much the icing on the cake for me as far as the Texans needing to draft him.
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I agree , that was a very informative interview .... it helped answer some of the mental questions along with his talking about learning things he wasn't responsible for at A&M (specifically protection schemes) being a professional and perfecting his craft.

Mr. White said:
From a rational standpoint, I don't see it happening. I think the Fitz signing eliminates the possibility of drafting a QB at 1st overall. I think we'll look to trade down and take Clowney if we're not able to do it.
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What does signing a journeyman QB have to do with drafting one ? He's not the long term answer .... I cant see Fitz being anything more than a placeholder for the guy they do draft early. He buys that rookie some time to get his sh!t together.
 
BullNation4Life said:
I saw and and like the fact he owned up to his mistakes. Didn't shy away from, didn't make excuses, said he did too much and knows he should have done things differently...

I look at like this, if the kid can play, he can play and draft him. If they feel any doubt, trade back, take the player(s) you need and move on...

Either way, gonna be an interesting year....
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I can't take anything said in these things particularly seriously. They all have been coached out the wazoo on what to say to make the right impression.

If it's not football specific talk about scheme etc then its all spin. Even the football specific stuff you know its been drilled into them a million times and might not stand up in game action.

That is not a JFF specific comment just a skeptical buyer beware thing.
 
If only he was just a little bigger. I have warmed to the possibility of drafting this kid, but he is at his best when he improvises right? Im not sure how many hits by an NFL linebacker he is going to be able to take.

I really liked how he took every snap at his pro day from under center. Kinda like a "suck on this" to all the analysts.

Drama is building.
 
I have been a big fan of Manzel at A&M but have been worried about him as a pro. A lot of my concerns are still there but the guy is really something special and he handles the spotlight really well and lives to be in it. His drive and determination to win is really rare and contageous. I am now onboard with drafting him #1 or however OB can get him. He blew up his pro day and handled the media attention like he was just hanging out with friends.

I have been pulling for OT Robinson and would still be very happy with him. Clowney and Mack too. It is just that Johnny Football has something that those guys don't. It. He has "It". That can't be coached or taught. You have to be born with it. Rare indeed.
 
bckey said:
I have been pulling for OT Robinson and would still be very happy with him. Clowney and Mack too. It is just that Johnny Football has something that those guys don't. It. He has "It". That can't be coached or taught. You have to be born with it. Rare indeed.
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Yep, haven't seen a prospect with as much "it" value since Tim teebow
 
markn said:
Yep, haven't seen a prospect with as much "it" value since Tim teebow
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Tebow as a competitor is one of the best you'll ever see play the game. He did have the "it" factor, but his problem is he lacked the main fundamental skill you need to play QB. HE COULDN'T PASS! Manziel is one of the most accurate QBs in this draft if not the most accurate. Big difference between the two.

I like Tebow as a person and wish the league could find somewhere for him to play for I believe his career is finished. He won a playoff game though which is more than a lot of QBs can say.
 
Say Watt said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you anti-Manziel early in the thread? Good post though. The Texans can either keep doing things the "Texan way" and keeping floundering in mediocrity, or they can take a chance, get the boom or bust pick, and shoot for the Super Bowl. Personally, I'm tired of the "Texan way" and am ready to start enjoying the winning way.
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I don't want any of the QB's at 1-1.

With that said taking Manziel would be taking a huge chance, something the Texans org is not known for.
 
markn said:
Yep, haven't seen a prospect with as much "it" value since Tim teebow
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That really isn't a fair comparison because it was pretty much a consensus across the board that Tebow was not going to be able to make it in the nfl as a qb. There was just way too much to change about his "mechanics". Manziels questions are only because of his size and his off the field antics. He has the tools to play qb in the nfl.
 
bckey said:
That really isn't a fair comparison because it was pretty much a consensus across the board that Tebow was not going to be able to make it in the nfl as a qb. There was just way too much to change about his "mechanics". Manziels questions are only because of his size and his off the field antics. He has the tools to play qb in the nfl.
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My questions are about his football IQ, ability to make reads and adjustments at the line of scrimage.

The buzz is all about his instincts and his improv, what matters in the NFL is the ability to beat your opponent at chess at the LOS and in that 2 seconds after the snap.
 
bckey said:
That really isn't a fair comparison because it was pretty much a consensus across the board that Tebow was not going to be able to make it in the nfl as a qb. There was just way too much to change about his "mechanics". Manziels questions are only because of his size and his off the field antics. He has the tools to play qb in the nfl.
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Well... no. There are more questions than just his size and his off-the-field stuff.

There are also questions about:

1) His ability to read defenses
2) His tendency to leave the framework of the offense before he needs to
3) His skittishness in the pocket and feel for the rush
4) His durability
5) Whether he'll be able to do in the pros what he did in college
 
bckey said:
That really isn't a fair comparison because it was pretty much a consensus across the board that Tebow was not going to be able to make it in the nfl as a qb. There was just way too much to change about his "mechanics". Manziels questions are only because of his size and his off the field antics. He has the tools to play qb in the nfl.
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I wasn't comparing, I was teasing. You aggies are as sensitive as those horns are over vy!

In my honest view, the intangible strengths you cite for JM are probably all true, but they're the things that make a good pro QB great. To even be a good QB at NFL level you need a whole lot more, and no one knows if JM, TB or BB have those things (TB is closest imvho) . There's no clear can't miss qb in this draft, and all the tebow-esque willing-your-team-to-win-ingness in the world isn't going to close the gap if you don't have the basic pro-athletic ability.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
My questions are about his football IQ, ability to make reads and adjustments at the line of scrimage.

The buzz is all about his instincts and his improv, what matters in the NFL is the ability to beat your opponent at chess at the LOS and in that 2 seconds after the snap.
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Bingo. This is my concern. Might've dazzled in college, but his hightlight reels make me nervous. Too many times throwing across his body and into traffic to get bailed out by a WR like Evans.

He's at his best improvising and scrambling for yardage. Questions are: when teams like LSU took away running lanes can he operate in the pocket effectively? When he does scramble can he hold up physically to hits? Can he operate under center?
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Well... no. There are more questions than just his size and his off-the-field stuff.

There are also questions about:

1) His ability to read defenses
2) His tendency to leave the framework of the offense before he needs to
3) His skittishness in the pocket and feel for the rush
4) His durability
5) Whether he'll be able to do in the pros what he did in college
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Pretty accurate summary.

His foot work may have improved last year, but he still had significant mechanical foot work problems last year. He continued to show many throws off of his back foot. He routinely swung his back leg up and around like a baseball pitcher in order to put more force into throws (something that negatively affects accuracy)......keeping his body wide open......a perfect setup to get killed the D in the NFL. With a significant rush (or perceived rush, he tended to fall to his side as he released the ball......which means he had his weight on his back foot and didn't re-set his feet before making the throw......a perfect setup to get killed by the D in the NFL.

Being projected "NFL-ready" going from college to the NFL is far different from being "NFL-ready" when you finally play in the NFL. Even being "NFL-ready" coming out of college is not a label that can be attached with any confidence at this point to Manziel.
 
I don't understand the whole high risk/high reward statement about Manziel. If all the QBs reach their potential, what is it about Manziel that would be more rewarding? Is it his elusiveness that sets him apart with a higher reward than a Bridgewater or a Bortles? I ask honestly because this keeps coming up and it's confusing me.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Scout: Mike Evans made Johnny Manziel, not other way around
From NFL.com
By Dan Parr
Published: March 30, 2014 at 12:48 p.m.
Updated: March 30, 2014 at 01:28 p.m
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Link doesn't work but saying either one of them "made" another is wrong. They made each other better, plain and simple...thats how it works in football. With two great players like Johnny and Evans, neither one of them would have been as great without the other, but neither one would have failed either.

For anyone that actually watched Texas A&M play, you know that Evans was not constantly bailing Manziel out like most of his detractors try and suggest. In fact in the second half of last year, Evans was often nowhere to be found and really struggled when DBs played physical with him. He was often getting very upset and complaining when he didn't get PI calls his way.

Manziel's two best games passing last year (statistically) were games where Evans was held under 100 yards.

So this theory is complete and utter bull**** and very weak journalism.
 
TheMatrix31 said:
The entire franchise STARTED with taking a risk----Tony Boselli. That guy doesn't know what the **** he's talking about.
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You have to understand that taking Boselli was a package deal for the Jaq's to leave other players exposed , specifically Gary Walker and Seth Payne.

The two teams had an agreement in place that the Texans absorbed Boselli's $6.8m in salary and the Jaq's left those other players available.
 
Corrosion said:
You have to understand that taking Boselli was a package deal for the Jaq's to leave other players exposed , specifically Gary Walker and Seth Payne.

The two teams had an agreement in place that the Texans absorbed Boselli's $6.8m in salary and the Jaq's left those other players available.
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LINK?

If true that is fascinating.

I'd never heard that before.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
Weird, never heard that angle before.

Why is their any Boselli Bitterness if he was the tax to pay for getting Walker and Payne?
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not everyone knows it was a package deal. Jag and Texans both knew he may never play a down because of his shoulder, Texans wanted Payne and Walker for Caper's defense.

If Boselli played, great but if not, they at least got 2 good defensive players.
 
matts290 said:
Link doesn't work but saying either one of them "made" another is wrong. They made each other better, plain and simple...thats how it works in football. With two great players like Johnny and Evans, neither one of them would have been as great without the other, but neither one would have failed either.

So this theory is complete and utter bull**** and very weak journalism.
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I agree. That statement could be argued through out the history of football...


rice made Montana great...
Rice made Young great...
Irvin made Aikman great...
etc made etc great...

great players make each other great...
 
kiwitexansfan said:
Weird, never heard that angle before.

Why is their any Boselli Bitterness if he was the tax to pay for getting Walker and Payne?
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The Jaguars and expansion Houston Texans have more important matters to deal with today than their twice-annual matchups in the NFL's new AFC South Division.

Simply put: The Jaguars have a $27.7 million salary-cap problem, while the Texans are in need of quality players.

On tap

What: NFL expansion draft.

TV: 3 p.m., ESPN.

The plan: Houston is expected to select between 12 and 18 of the 155 available players in the draft. They'll use 38 percent of the $71.7 million salary cap and spend the rest on the college draft in April and free agency.

What's unusual about this scenario is that both soon-to-be division counterparts are ready and willing to help out the other in this afternoon's expansion draft at the George R. Brown Convention Center.

Rivalry? What rivalry?

"Our focus right now is more on trying to acquire good football players than worrying about how it's going to impact our opponents," said Texans coach Dom Capers, a former Jaguars defensive coordinator.

Fortunately for the Jaguars' cap situation, three of those roughly 12-18 players the Texans select today will likely be from Jacksonville. Jaguars offensive tackle Tony Boselli and defensive tackles Gary Walker and Seth Payne were flown to Houston yesterday to appear at the draft, all with the assurance they will be chosen by the Texans.
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Link

The Jags could have pulled back Walker or Payne after the Boselli pick was made. The rumored deal, and how it worked out, is they did not but they would have pulled either DT if the other was selected before Boselli.

All of that is not to say the Texans did not expect Boselli to play. They did. But it made the risk more acceptable.

As to why the resentment - the whole thing was a parade of crap. Boselli didn't work out. The Carr turned out to be a Travant. The NFL didn't allow the Texans to have an alternative plan of Willie Roaf due to health risks and he went on to 5 straight pro bowls without missing a game iirc.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I don't understand the whole high risk/high reward statement about Manziel. If all the QBs reach their potential, what is it about Manziel that would be more rewarding? Is it his elusiveness that sets him apart with a higher reward than a Bridgewater or a Bortles? I ask honestly because this keeps coming up and it's confusing me.
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One thing for sure will be his ability to sell play action. I think he would also drastically help the running game, not because he can take off, which he could, but teams won't be able cheat line of scrimmage or sit on slow developing routes. Best thing about Manziel is that his presence alone makes Texans so much less predictable. O'Brian will simplify the offense with Johnny handing off majority of snaps, just mixing in some passes for some balance then braking the defenses back with long ball. IMO
 
beerlover said:
One thing for sure will be his ability to sell play action. I think he would also drastically help the running game, not because he can take off, which he could, but teams won't be able cheat line of scrimmage or sit on slow developing routes. Best thing about Manziel is that his presence alone makes Texans so much less predictable. O'Brian will simplify the offense with Johnny handing off majority of snaps, just mixing in some passes for some balance then braking the defenses back with long ball. IMO
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Nope, that's just not possible for the dim-witted, glory-hound that is Manziel. Heck, he completely lacks any semblance of football knowledge and lacks the ability to inspire anyone around him.
 
beerlover said:
One thing for sure will be his ability to sell play action. I think he would also drastically help the running game, not because he can take off, which he could, but teams won't be able cheat line of scrimmage or sit on slow developing routes. Best thing about Manziel is that his presence alone makes Texans so much less predictable. O'Brian will simplify the offense with Johnny handing off majority of snaps, just mixing in some passes for some balance then braking the defenses back with long ball. IMO
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He did a few snaps of play action at his pro day , it wasn't as good as Schaub's who was very good at it , but the motion was believable.

kiwitexansfan said:
Schaub, I thought was great at that.

Did A&M run a lot of play action?
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The only guy better than Schuab is Peyton Manning.
 
Corrosion said:
He did a few snaps of play action at his pro day , it wasn't as good as Schaub's who was very good at it , but the motion was believable.
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Seeing him do it at his pro-day made me think he wasn't as good as Schaub, and away from the pressure to do it well at his pro-day will he work hard on it in games or just go through the motions before laucning 'Johnny Time'.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
Seeing him do it at his pro-day made me think he wasn't as good as Schaub, and away from the pressure to do it well at his pro-day will he work hard on it in games or just go through the motions before laucning 'Johnny Time'.
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As Corrosion said, Schaub was one of the best at it. Tough standard.

The number of times Schaub fooled the cameramen was hilarious except for missing half the play.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
Seeing him do it at his pro-day made me think he wasn't as good as Schaub, and away from the pressure to do it well at his pro-day will he work hard on it in games or just go through the motions before laucning 'Johnny Time'.
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Yeah , Schaub is a tough standard for play action , Manziel isn't that good at it .... but if he works on it , he can be.


I look at the improvement he's made from the beginning of the season to the end , and again the work he's put in since the start of the offseason. Its impossible to dispute his work ethic , tho that may change when you hand him a few million.

That work he has put in over this offseason , fixing things that were not quite right , learning other responsibilities I think has separated him from the other two. They haven't made the same level of improvement. They also didn't perform particularly well at their pro days when the pressure was on them to do so. One was below average , the other was just ok while Manziel was very good when the lights were on. Those other two had Schaub moments , fading under the pressure of the bright lights. I've had enough of that ....

As for Johnny time , what negatives have we heard from him since "autographgate"? We haven't heard a peep out of him since that half game suspension other than he's working hard. I think many are overplaying this and just don't see what changes he has made since.

Going thru that as a young kid in college may well better prepare him for the pitfalls he faces as a professional. He put it behind him and hasn't made the same mistakes since.
 
Condensed version: use his unpredictability to run a simple offense, like Russell Wilson does in Seattle. He doesn't have to make big plays to be effective but more a product of O'Brian's offense. Big plays will happen for Manziel led offense when defense over commits or gambles not other way around.

We get so tied up in breaking down mechanics, likes or dislikes we fail to see the fit in new Bill O'Brian scheme.
 
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