Manziel

[Playoffs]

So Cliffs Notes is that he looked good but the same concerns remain and we basically learned nothing?

Two things I didn't know beforehand...

-- Bill Polian said Manziel has the best arm “by a significant margin” of the three quarterbacks often mentioned as Top 5 possibilities, the others being Teddy Bridgewater of Louisville and Blake Bortles of Central Florida.

-- the circus is bigger than we knew before today.

 

[Nawzer]

It would certainly be interesting if Manziel was drafted by the Texans. It would make the team interesting for sure and I think he's the kind of guy players will rally around. This team desperately needs an infusion of excitement and Manziel would provide that. It would be nice if the Texans gambled instead of taking the conservative route. With that said, today's workout was obviously designed to make him look great, but to his credit he went out and did it.

 

[AngryNateFTW]

If a GM takes into consideration the type of music a prospect plays at his pro day to not take him, they need to stop being a GM...


If he can play and make the throws and reads, take him. If he can't pass on him and hope he doesn't burn you in the long run..

Agreed. Knocking a player for listening to rap is a joke. You listen to whatever gets you in the zone whether it be rap or opera music.

 

[kiwitexansfan]

Two things I didn't know beforehand...

-- Bill Polian said Manziel has the best arm “by a significant margin” of the three quarterbacks often mentioned as Top 5 possibilities, the others being Teddy Bridgewater of Louisville and Blake Bortles of Central Florida.

-- the circus is bigger than we knew before today.

That GIF on that deep ball is impressive. That throw however makes up a tiny fraction of what a QB is required to do. Money is made in the short yardage throws, which I believe stats say isn't Manziel's strength.

OB seems to be far more concerned with the top two inches not the 60 yard bomb.

Not sure OB likes it when the circus comes to town. If he does, I get the feeling he likes the guy shoveling elephant crap not the headliners.

It would make the team interesting for sure and I think he's the kind of guy players will rally around.

I'm not sold on this.

Yes I am in the fictional Teddy camp but I am open to Manziel, just wanted to comment on these issues.

 

[chicagotexan2]

Agreed. Knocking a player for listening to rap is a joke. You listen to whatever gets you in the zone whether it be rap or opera music.

mark Sanchez said he'd listen to Barry manilow before big games to keep him calm. To me drake is probably the worst musician but I think I'd rather have the guy that's gets hyped instead one that listens to copa cabana before game time.

 

[beerlover]

The music is a negative, because of the audience (owners, GM's & coaches); the pads are a positive because you play in pads.

not so fast, the passion, entertainment, connection with teammates becomes infectious even with grumpy old men without rhythm

 

[Number19]

If the reports I've heard are correct, even Manziel's "people" realized they had made a mistake. They started off with the R rated version of the music and somewhere about the third or forth song, plugged in a "clean" Canadian version.

This is not about knocking someone's personal preference for music.

Some have likened this pro day to a job interview. Do you go into an interview wearing a suit or your street clothes? This music was part of the "circus" atmosphere. The emphasis should not be on the fans, the public, the media or the general audience. Coaches, GM's and owners, who are deciding whether this guy is the one to pay millions of dollars, are no nonsense people who are there for just one reason, and it's not to be entertained.

If you are a Manziel fan and would like to see him in a Texans uniform, do you think this music had a net positive, or a net negative, impression on Bob McNair, Rick Williams and Bill O'Brien?

 

[Corrosion]

If the reports I've heard are correct, even Manziel's "people" realized they had made a mistake. They started off with the R rated version of the music and somewhere about the third or forth song, plugged in a "clean" Canadian version.

This is not about knocking someone's personal preference for music.

Some have likened this pro day to a job interview. Do you go into an interview wearing a suit or your street cloths? This music was part of the "circus" atmosphere. The emphasis should not be on the fans, the public or the general audience. Coaches, GM's and owners, who are deciding whether this guy is the one to pay millions of dollars, are no nonsense people who are there for just that one reason.

This whole thing is all about the fans , without the fans there are no billion dollar franchises , billion dollar stadiums , multi-billion dollars in revenue , no millions to pay players with.
Its all about the fans! All the time!

If you are a Manziel fan and would like to see him in a Texans uniform, do think this music had a net positive, or a net negative, impression on Bob McNair, Rick Williams and Bill O'Brien?

They aren't picking him to be a DJ , they are picking him to sling footballs around the stadium. I cant stand rap but I don't care what the hell he played. Hell , he may not have picked it ?!

Complaining about the choice of music is absolutely comical , nitpicking.

They let rapists , murderers & wife beaters play in this league .... if they have star talent , and people want to knock a guy for some music ?!

Some like the guy , others don't. He's damn near as polarizing as .... Obama.

 

[thunderkyss]

If you are a Manziel fan and would like to see him in a Texans uniform, do you think this music had a net positive, or a net negative, impression on Bob McNair, Rick Williams and Bill O'Brien?

I think it's net positive.

I didn't expect to see Johnny on the turntables, so I'm not going to knock him for whatever version they put on.

I also didn't expect to see the production A&M planned for this. I'd be curious to know if these people were getting paid for running sound & all the other things that went into the production of the event, or if they did it because they love Johnny. If it's the latter... can't really get a better endorsement than that.

 

[AngryNateFTW]

So Cliffs Notes is that he looked good but the same concerns remain and we basically learned nothing?

Actual Cliff Notes..

- Those who liked him before the Pro Day, LOVE HIM.
- Those who were on the fence about him before the Pro Day, like him.
- Those who didn't like him before the Pro Day are throwing out more reasons/excuses to why he can't make it in the NFL.

 

[Stemp]

Actual Cliff Notes..

- Those who liked him before the Pro Day, LOVE HIM.
- Those who were on the fence about him before the Pro Day, like him.
- Those who didn't like him before the Pro Day are throwing out more reasons/excuses to why he can't make it in the NFL.

Spot on.

 

[Corrosion]

So Cliffs Notes is that he looked good but the same concerns remain and we basically learned nothing?

To be honest , I think we learned quite a bit.


You consider the gimmicky offense he ran at A&M and the ability he showed today with his footwork from under center. (He already had the best footwork of the group)

With the improvement of the above , in such a short amount of time , he's showed that he's very coachable and dedicated to his craft. He showed he's capable of doing things that he wasn't asked to do @ A&M.

He has a better arm than either Bortles or Bridgewater , he makes plays that they just cant ... add all of that together , I think he separated himself from the others significantly.

 

[LikeMike]

Actual Cliff Notes..

- Those who liked him before the Pro Day, LOVE HIM.
- Those who were on the fence about him before the Pro Day, like him.
- Those who didn't like him before the Pro Day are throwing out more reasons/excuses to why he can't make it in the NFL.

I think some people have been overly critical of him before the proday - and I believe there are several questions about him that a pro day can`t answer.

The first is injuries. His style of play tends to get you injured, as you could see with RG3. NFL guys are bigger and faster, he will get some big hits and he doesn`t have the body to absorb too many of them.

The second is his patience in going through reads. In college he often improvised when his first option wasn`t open. In the NFL it is great if you have the ability to improvise, but you only should do it, when you need to. And again, this could lead to some big hits.

The third is the question of how he can do the "normal" things in games, so the 5-15 yards passes. He tends to go for the big play too often - and those risks can backfire. In the NFL, take what the defense gives you, and those are usually those underneath throws.

That being said I would be thrilled if we take him. He would add some major excitement to our team and he definetly has the IT-factor. He plays his best when the brightest lights are on, he can do that nobody else does and he has the arm to do all the plays. But I would also be scared as hell because of the questions I just wrote. Biggest boom or bust pick - but I like going for the boom.

 

[AngryNateFTW]

I think some people have been overly critical of him before the proday - and I believe there are several questions about him that a pro day can`t answer.

The first is injuries. His style of play tends to get you injured, as you could see with RG3. NFL guys are bigger and faster, he will get some big hits and he doesn`t have the body to absorb too many of them.

The second is his patience in going through reads. In college he often improvised when his first option wasn`t open. In the NFL it is great if you have the ability to improvise, but you only should do it, when you need to. And again, this could lead to some big hits.

The third is the question of how he can do the "normal" things in games, so the 5-15 yards passes. He tends to go for the big play too often - and those risks can backfire. In the NFL, take what the defense gives you, and those are usually those underneath throws.

That being said I would be thrilled if we take him. He would add some major excitement to our team and he definetly has the IT-factor. He plays his best when the brightest lights are on, he can do that nobody else does and he has the arm to do all the plays. But I would also be scared as hell because of the questions I just wrote. Biggest boom or bust pick - but I like going for the boom.

All legitimate concerns, indeed.

 

[Corrosion]

I think some people have been overly critical of him before the proday - and I believe there are several questions about him that a pro day can`t answer.

The first is injuries. His style of play tends to get you injured, as you could see with RG3. NFL guys are bigger and faster, he will get some big hits and he doesn`t have the body to absorb too many of them.

He spoke about this at the espn or was it NFL network interview at the conclusion of the pro day , saying he has to avoid hits , don't be so prideful , take what you can get and get down.

The second is his patience in going through reads. In college he often improvised when his first option wasn`t open. In the NFL it is great if you have the ability to improvise, but you only should do it, when you need to. And again, this could lead to some big hits.

You have to wonder what he was asked to do as far as reads are concerned. We really don't know and likely have no way of finding out what's fact or fiction. That will come out in the interview process , teams will grill him on reads , progressions , protections & all the other little details. I's love to be a fly on the wall in those interviews.

 

[thunderkyss]

The second is his patience in going through reads. In college he often improvised when his first option wasn`t open. In the NFL it is great if you have the ability to improvise, but you only should do it, when you need to. And again, this could lead to some big hits.

The absolute other end of that spectrum is a guy like Aaron Brooks. He had the athleticism to give him options & work outside the pocket. He had a prett good head, and was fairly accurate outside the pocket, on the move. He had play-makers at WR (Mighty Joe Horn), TE (Billy Miller), & RB (Ricky Williams) but he was dead set on being "known" as a pocket passer.

Other guys, like McNabb & Roethlisberger put winning before "what kind of quarterback will I be" & won enough games that they could develop into that deadly from the pocket QB.

Whether it's Bortles, Bridgewater, or Manziel, they're all going to have to learn when to stick it out & when to make something happen. Some guys do it too much, some guys not enough... The Great ones find the right balance.

At worst, I think Manziel's floor is Tony Romo... ish.

 

[HOU-TEX]

I really don't have a horse in the QB race (want Clowney), but his height plus what looks to be a 3/4 throwing motion would concern the heck out of me. I re-watched the PD last night and whenever the camera behind him was on it seemed like his throwing motion rarely got to the height of the top of his helmet. Especially on the shorter routes. The blocking dummies came close to blocking a couple and they don't compare to the Watt's of the NFL.

I think any team that drafts him will need to create more passing lanes than for a normal QB.

All that said, I think he has a spunky type confidence and I can dig that. I never knee-jerk with draft picks, so I wouldn't be upset at picking Johnny or Bortles. But to me, anyone who relies on having a throwing glove raises a huge flag for me,

 

[Number19]

This whole thing is all about the fans ...Its all about the fans! All the time!

This past week Bill O'Brien said something to the effect of: If I listen to the fans, I'll be out of a job.

...Complaining about the choice of music is absolutely comical , nitpicking...

Questioning the Manziel Circus is not "nitpicking" and the music was part of the circus. Is this something O'Brien is willing to go along with? The sit-down personal interviews will be/are very relevant to the Texans decision making.

I'm neither a Manziel supporter, or a "hater". Since early on I've advocated for a defensive draft. But with each step of the evaluation process, I've moved more into Manziel's corner. If the Texans were to take a QB with 1-1, I would want it to be this kid.

 

[WolverineFan]

At worst, I think Manziel's floor is Tony Romo... ish.

That's a pretty big statement. Romo is a top 10 QB in the league.

IMO, Manziel's ceiling is top 5 QB. But his floor is out of the league in 4 years.

 

[djohn2oo8]

No reason to take Manziel if you're going to keep Keenum.

 

[Dread-Head]

Yep, all these guys are A&M alums...

Johnny Manziel will be a star in the NFL. I can't wait to watch him play!!!!

- Mike Vick (@MikeVick) March 27, 2014

Then he walked away with his pitt bull. Isn't Dog-boy still lookin' for work?

Just finished watching my bro @JManziel2 pro day!! Don't take him if u want 2. He's a flat out STAR! Accuracy on point! #StriveForGreatness

- LeBron James (@KingJames) March 27, 2014

Well if a guy who went to the NBA straight out of High school who travels more than a flight attendant and leads the league in uncalled fouls and charges endorses him what more do I need?

John Gruden compared Manziel to Steve Young after his pro day.

Did Tony Dungee say it first?

Fran Tarkenton is dying for the Vikings to draft him. Chris Mortensen said he "aced" his pro day. Aaron Rodgers said two of the three commentators that kept harping on Manziel dropping his shoulder didn't know what they were talking about. The list goes on.

To quote a pretty Canadian girl with a perfect butt "That don't impress me much...". I recall when the same was said about:

Doug Flutie

Cordelle Stewart

Demarcus Russell

Vince Young

Matt Leinart

&

Tim Tebow

Many of the aforementioned people you cited have FORGOTTEN more about the great game of football than I'll ever know, but much like them I have hunches too, and you're forgetting I've been a certified Playa-hater since 1987.

 

[FirstTexansFan]

Dread Dread Dread.... smdh.... Well I'm still your #1 fan in spite of your hatred for my pick of the three QB's everyone is discussing I'm all in for Johnny Manziel now.... Charlie Casserly hates him as well, that cinched it for me

 

[Dread-Head]

I've not been JM's biggest fan - in terms of the Texans drafting him. GREAT college QB, but the dumpster at the back of the NFL's hotel is littered with the remains of great college QB's that did squat in the NFL. Vince Young to Ryan Leaf and a million in between.

.

OMG! I forgot about the LEGENDARY Ryan Leaf!

 

[_King_]

I think Manziel is like a less physically talented Michael Vick. I just watched a bunch of film on Manziel, TB and no question in my mind who the better NFL prospect is. The things that you need to be able to do as an NFL QB, TB has it. I was wavering back and forth between the two since Manziel's pro day...But I'm back to TB.

This does not mean that I think Manziel can't be a good QB. I don't think he's as good as Russell Wilson though. And I don't think he's as physically gifted as Colin Kaepernick. But I think if you get Manziel in the right system and have some great play calling he can be a good QB and occasionally make the exciting play. But I would not take him over TB.

TB did not have that great of talent playing with him. But he spread that ball around. He made that Louisville offense go. He made so many NFL type plays. He had some adversity as all QB's do. He threw some bad balls. But he came back and delivered.

It bothers me a little bit that he had the bad pro day without the gloves. But the positives far outweigh the negatives in my mind. I would be excited with all the hoopla and excitement that came with drafting Manziel, but I will be equally as happy as just getting the football guy, Teddy Bridgewater.

 

[Dread-Head]

I doubt you'll meet any of those guys while you're in Texas. You're either an A&M fan or a UT fan....

but they're jocking him in New York, LA, Chicago..... that's why ESPN was at his Pro Day. I normally don't listen to ESPN during the day, because most of it is not local... but guess what they were talking about all day.

So I should kneel at the alter of the people who give a paycheck to Skip Bayless & Stephen A. Smith?

 

[Dread-Head]

Dread Dread Dread.... smdh.... Well I'm still your #1 fan in spite of your hatred for my pick of the three QB's everyone is discussing I'm all in for Johnny Manziel now.... Charlie Casserly hates him as well, that cinched it for me

Nah. Don't "hate" the guy. Just don't think he's the answer to the Texans offensive issues. They're about to revamp their offense and I'm not sure an untested rookie is the way to go especially if they haven't done anything to shore up the O-line.

 

[Porky]

If we don't take him, I think Gus Bradley is likely too. Y'all want to be facing JM twice a year with a chip on his shoulder?

Hell to the no!

 

[djohn2oo8]

If we don't take him, I think Gus Bradley is likely too. Y'all want to be facing JM twice a year with a chip on his shoulder?

Hell to the no!

Successful teams and fanbases wouldn't worry about this kind of stuff.

 

[Dread-Head]

Gentlmen (and ladies) I would like to make an announcement on behalf of those of my ilk.



(ahem) Haters...gotta hate. Thank you.

 

[_King_]

If we don't take him, I think Gus Bradley is likely too. Y'all want to be facing JM twice a year with a chip on his shoulder?

Hell to the no!

I don't care about him having a chip on his shoulder.

VY had a chip on his shoulder to show the Texans they should have kept him. Michael Vick could zip the ball all over the field and run like the wind. He's a better overall athlete than Manziel. Andre Johnson said Keenum has an "aura about him".

I don't care about any of that.

I surely hope the Texans are thinking more level headed and not falling in love with the flare and are instead looking at the substance.

 

[chicagotexan2]

If we don't take him, I think Gus Bradley is likely too. Y'all want to be facing JM twice a year with a chip on his shoulder?

Hell to the no!

Vince Young came in here with a chip on his shoulder. Now he's out of the NFL and can't afford a bag of chips. In fact if he has children he might have to put them on CHIP medicaid. I like Manziel but I also have serious reservations. The Native Texan and Aggie story line is great, but the team is better off drafting the player they feel the most confident about. Vine Young would was a great story line, but thankfully the Texans went with the player they felt best about. Having said that I really really really hope they aren't as confident about Bortles than I fear they are.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

If we don't take him, I think Gus Bradley is likely too. Y'all want to be facing JM twice a year with a chip on his shoulder?

Hell to the no!

Wow ... is this the WWF ?

 

[PapaL]

Manziel at #1 seems ridiculous to me. I don't care if he played football in my driveway. There are better options both on the board and at QB for the 1-1 slot.

 

[Number19]

No reason to take Manziel if you're going to keep Keenum.

Keenum would make the perfect backup to Manziel.

 

[PapaL]

Keenum would make the perfect backup to Manziel.

That would address QB2 and QB3. We'd still need a starter.

 

[Dutchrudder]

You have to wonder what he was asked to do as far as reads are concerned. We really don't know and likely have no way of finding out what's fact or fiction. That will come out in the interview process , teams will grill him on reads , progressions , protections & all the other little details. I's love to be a fly on the wall in those interviews.

I think he was asked to do the same things Sumlin asked Case Keenum to do at U of H. I don't think that is a leap of logic. Keenum was excellent at going through multiple reads, it was one of the things that made him such a prolific QB in college. Manziel doesn't go through reads consistently, but I think a lot of that had to do with his tendency to bail from the pocket, or focus on avoiding the pass rush sometimes. I recall an analyst a while back saying Manziel is like a bucking bronco, and that whoever gets him will need to tame him. I think this is one area that will take a lot of work from the coaches.

 

[Double Barrel]

All I know is that the next defensive end that rushes with a broom, Johnny Manziel has that **** covered. No problemo!

What a circus. It's kind of bizarre that all the talking heads play down pro days as just part of the process but then go full mancrush and turn NFLN into a infomercial for each QB that has a good pro day.

 

[Number19]

That would address QB2 and QB3. We'd still need a starter.

That would be Fitzpatrick.

 

[thunderkyss]

Then he walked away with his pitt bull. Isn't Dog-boy still lookin' for work?

Signed with the Jets the day after they kicked buttfumble to the curb

VY had a chip on his shoulder to show the Texans they should have kept him.

& Vince Young kicked our butt every chance he got. He called Reliant his house & if you saw the VY Jerseys... you really couldn't argue the point.

He'd still be kicking our butts today if he didn't get caught in the middle of the Reese/Fisher thing. He wasn't a very good QB, I'm not saying different, but he still kicked our butt.

 

[Allstar]

Word is the Texans met with him for 2 hours yesterday.

 

[djohn2oo8]

Word is the Texans met with him for 2 hours yesterday.

And cyberx of clutchfans, who is confirmed as legit, says the Texans are concerned with the attention he brings.

 

[htownfan32]

No reason to take Manziel if you're going to keep Keenum.

 

[thunderkyss]

And cyberx of clutchfans, who is confirmed as legit, says the Texans are concerned with the attention he brings.

I think it sends mixed signals to the team if on one hand you say you're "concerned about the attention he brings" & on the other, you say, "We need to get mentally tougher."

Something about leadership starting at the top & all.

 

[_King_]

I think it sends mixed signals to the team if on one hand you say you're "concerned about the attention he brings" & on the other, you say, "We need to get mentally tougher."

Something about leadership starting at the top & all.

One of the first things OB did when he got here was take down all the individual stuff and put up things that signified team.

OB might be concerned that Manziel would defy THAT message.

Being mentally tough has nothing to do with it.

 

[thunderkyss]

One of the first things OB did when he got here was take down all the individual stuff and put up things that signified team.

OB might be concerned that Manziel would defy THAT message.

Being mentally tough has nothing to do with it.

& your whole post has nothing to do with being concerned about the attention Manziel brings.



On another note, I just saw this.

 

[_King_]

& your whole post has nothing to do with being concerned about the attention Manziel brings.

So wanting the team to be a team and taking down all the individual stuff at the facility has nothing to do with the massive amount of attention one player will get?

LOL...ok

 

[infantrycak]

I think it sends mixed signals to the team if on one hand you say you're "concerned about the attention he brings" & on the other, you say, "We need to get mentally tougher."

Something about leadership starting at the top & all.

Horse pucky. That's like saying "toughen up" and "don't jump on hand grenades" sends mixed signals.

 

[El Tejano]

So wanting the team to be a team and taking down all the individual stuff at the facility has nothing to do with the massive amount of attention one player will get?

LOL...ok

Good! Maybe they wont have dumb player announcements at training camp. That cursed our team last season. I really believe that.

 

[Lord Bills]

Its gonna be a sad sad sad scene when the Texans pass up on BOTH Johnny Manziel and Clowney and pick Blake Bortles, the guy with the lowest ceiling and has bust written all over him.

I dont know what else manziel has to do in order prove his talent. Playing in the toughest conference in football wasnt enough. Putting up great numbers in that same conference wasnt enough. Making spectacular play after spectacular play showing off his special vision and running ability wasnt enough. Running well in the combine wasnt enough. Having big hands wasnt enough. Passing well in his workout wasnt enough.

I blame mindless espn for ruining this guy's reputation and the gullible idiots like clockwork bought it.

What has this guy really done off the field too garner such character questions?

Did he kill anybody?
Did he rape anybody?
Did he get busted for drugs?
Did he get busted for dui?
Did steal anything?

What is it? What did this guy do to have been flagged with the questionable character?

The autograph thing? Please, NCAA are scumbag money grubbing opportunist with an infantile view on student athlete morality.

The going to a longhorn frat party? you have got to be kidding me. What did he do there? did he darren sharper a couple ladies? Did he get into a fight? What is it? they kicked him out because he was a popular aggie football player?

What else? ahh the Manning Camp thing.

Seriously, the Manning Camp? WTF is that? Is that part of the combine? Is that part of the nfl interview process? The manning camp? Did they play a game football game in the manning camp that proved or disproved a football player's talent?

psst.,

please.

Manziel is the real deal. Mark my words, he will become a successful and exciting nfl player. Ive seen Merril Hodge's typical shock journalism act on espn bashing Manziel. COMPLETE AND UTTER BOLLOCKS. Manziel is no Tebow. Tebow was a bruising runner who bulldozed tacklers. Manziel is a slick runner who relies on vision, angles, and speed.

Mark my words,

Blake Bortles is Matt Schaub 2.0 while Manziel is cut from the same cloth as Russell Wilson, Kapernick, Newton, and RG3.

I dont even care anymore, i hope the texans pass up on BOTH Manziel and clowney. We had a chance to draft patrick willis, julius peppers, russell wilson but instead chose the safe prototypical picks.

HIGH RISK HIGH REWARD, LOW RISK, LOW REWARD.
FORTUNE FAVORS THE BOLD.
NO GUTS, NO GLORY.

Go ahead make the same prototypical "safe" pick so we can have the same prototypical texan result.


***THREAD SUBCRIBED***

 

[Lord Bills]

and lol and smdh at the attention thing.

attention? the texans front office is afraid of attention? How the hell are we gonna win the superbowl if the texans are afraid of attention?

sigh...... i dont even..... forget it.