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Report: Texans and Raiders in Serious Trade Talk for Matt Schaub
- Thread starter Texans Pride
- Start date
Are you talking about Brennan Williams?
The injury that prevented him from lifting at the combine & his pro-day had nothing to do with why we put him on IR. His knee was repaired prior to the season, he played seven games, then participated in the running drills & a physical at the combine...
He was recovering from a bum shoulder when we drafted him.
This board has a stellar reputation. And considering that you will apparently stick around, I guess you like it, too. Still, I'm skeptical regarding how much you will post here since Schaub and Kubiak are no longer with us. Your favorite topics at TT have been Schaub, Kubiak, and your virtual persecution. Not necessarily in that order.
Well, at least you'll always have the latter.
Go Texans!
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
There is a legitimate question on what the Texans did know or should have known on Williams. By his own statements he had been having knee problems for two years. The nature of the micro-fracture surgery was a flag for CnD because it meant this was a long time problem and one with a very high risk of never fully recovering. Now some do overstate it and assume the Texans did know or should have known but the question is legitimately there on what was their knowledge and thought process. Maybe he hid the problems. Maybe they fully explored them and the consensus was an ordinary surgery would suffice which was later proven wrong. Maybe they decided his upside was worth the risk. We don't know.
SteelbTexan said he hopes we learned our lesson about drafting injured players with high draft picks, which is what I was referring to. If we're going to say we shouldn't draft guys with a shoulder injury who might develop a knee injury months later in camp, we might as well say we shouldn't draft anyone who might suffer a knee injury in the future.
But that's probably going to thin the list quite a bit.
Should the Texans do more due diligence on anyone with any injury history? Sure, why not.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I knew what you were referring to and even referenced steelb myself with the "now some" sentence. You on the other hand are being too dismissive of this as a "might develop" injury. It was an existing injury. Williams has said so himself.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
That would remove Clowney from contention because he's going to have foot surgery after the draft.
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
[IMGwidthsize=200]http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/32769_700b.jpg[/IMG]
Wow... impressive
This board has a stellar reputation. And considering that you will apparently stick around, I guess you like it, too. Still, I'm skeptical regarding how much you will post here since Schaub and Kubiak are no longer with us. Your favorite topics at TT have been Schaub, Kubiak, and your virtual persecution. Not necessarily in that order.
Well, at least you'll always have the latter.
Go Texans!
So I am only supposed to delve into topics you like, or you want? I am only supposed think like you think, or I am thick headed as another put it? Give me a break. And your final comment just exposes how insecure you are.
I mean why would I care if you or anyone else does, or does not persecute me on this message board? You think I am losing sleep or thinking about what you said about me 5 minutes after I leave this board? You have obviously convinced yourself of your own self importance, and that because of that, others are torn apart by your rapier wit and superior post count.
I don't live on this board, you do.
Wow... impressive
So I am only supposed to delve into topics you like, or you want? I am only supposed think like you think, or I am thick headed as another put it? Give me a break. And your final comment just exposes how insecure you are.
I mean why would I care if you or anyone else does, or does not persecute me on this message board? You think I am losing sleep or thinking about what you said about me 5 minutes after I leave this board? You have obviously convinced yourself of your own self importance, and that because of that, others are torn apart by your rapier wit and superior post count.
I don't live on this board, you do.
Just curious, do you ever post about the Texans or only attack other posters?
"Go Texans!"? I thought it was positive and uplifting?
"All Aboard the O'Brien, Fitzpatrick Train", indeed.
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
"I hate it when people attack my opinions, waaah!"
Dude, grow a set and take some criticism. When you have a contrary viewpoint, and you're vocal about it, you better be able to defend it before falling into your martyr complex and acting all persecuted. Welcome to TT. If you don't like it, find another message board. No one is forcing you to post here.
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
Oh crap!, you mean this isn't attackotherposters.com?
This is the kind of crap I am talking about. What does this members post have to do with the topic of this thread? Why is this thread still in the main forum? Matt Schaub has been traded in case you didn't hear.
Oh well, if you can't beat em', join em'
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Enough - get back on topic.
Matt Schaub's future can be discussed in the thread in the NFL forum.
His trade can be discussed here. Appreciation for him in that thread.
Matt Schaub's future can be discussed in the thread in the NFL forum.
His trade can be discussed here. Appreciation for him in that thread.
After he started seven games as a senior, ran the battery of medical exams at the combine, & participated in all the agility drills at his pro-day.
I know what Brennan said about the issue with his knee, something he'd been dealing with before his senior season. But I can't find anything saying he had surgery to address it, or anything to suggest it should have been an issue of concern.
The fact that he underwent microfracture surgery to repair his knee was, I believe, the first sign that he was dealing with a chronic issue.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
That does not refute anything I said. I used the word chronic, because I know what it means. Go back & read everything you can about Brennan Williams, find something that mentions a knee issue. Then you'll have a point to support your claim.
Until then, saying we should have learned our lesson about drafting injured players because a chronic condition was discovered after the draft doesn't really jive when he was recovering from a shoulder injury at the time of the draft.
Which is why I would pick Robinson at 1-1 over Clowney. Even though C-N-D has said he doesn't think there's cause for concern of Clowney's previous injury history.
Should the Texans Dr.'s have messed up Boselli/DDW's diagnosis. Shouldn't the Texans DR.'s said something to the front office about maybe not signing Schaub to that long term contract coming off of his foot injury? The Texans medical staff have more than the avg amount of screw ups on their resume and because of this if there's any doubt between 2 players they should always take the healthier of the 2 at the top of the draft.
These injured or talent but troubled picks should be made in rds 5-7 where there is less risk. (Example OT Matt Patchan is as talented as any OL in this draft but has a lengthy injury history, Crowell/Dyer have had legal troubles et....) These guys can play and are worth the risk.) Want a late rd TE with talent Lyerla/A.C.Leonard are guys that meet this criteria. S Give me Vinny Sunseri.
The only things that needs to happen for the Texans to become competitive again is.
1. Find a QB
2. Develop better draft philosophy, look at how the Pats/Denver/49ers/Seahawks draft and follow their patterns. (I've got very little faith in the Texans Org doing this)
3. Learn how to manage the cap better. Not giving big contract extentions to players coming off of major injuries.)
So I hear Oakland is interested in trading for Schaub.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
That's just mean spirited.
BTW, A wise man once told me that the Texans were never going to be built the way I want them. (Thanks Texan Bill) What remains to be seen is if the Texans can build a winner the way McNair wants HIS team to be built. (If he even cares about winning) The results have been poor at best to date. IMHO
PapaL
Loose Screw
You'll survive...or cry yourself to sleep.
I can think of 5 teams that would have loved to have been us over the last 6 years.
Bills, Oakland, Rams, Cleveland, Jacksonville, Miami.... that's 6, off the top of my head.
Allstar
Bona fide
Welcome to the internet.
I am so glad Schaub is traded... Now I can finally stop having nightmares every time I dream Texans. No more passing it short on 3rd and long, no more marching out crap ST coaches, no more ghost sacks, no more dead play on x and short because our one legged QB can't scramble for crap, no more guaranteed pick 6's each game he plays.
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
Good guy Matt Schaub.
Had this posted on my facebook wall by a friend.
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
You're right of course. I'll survive with a good hearty laugh from reading your post.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I always substitute, "Not that there's anything RIGHT with that." every time I see those clips. Tolerance of evil is NOT a virtue.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
You must be new here.
chicagotexan2
Easterby = Little Finger/Cal = Fredo Corleone
Thorn is many things. New is not one of them.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Just my perception but I think Ric Smith blew this trade. Probably sounds silly but imo the value of something resides more in what the buyer values it. In this scenario, Oakland recently said Schaub can start for 3-4 more seasons. They got a starter (in their opinion) for a 6th as we did for Myers. I think the decision of Texans was just to move MS for whatever & go forward. For the record, I have been in favor of moving MS for years but don't like the feeling of getting taken. While I want every pick I can get, I probably would have cut him June 1st rather than take a 6th.
I think that Cleveland not taking a more publicly vocal role indicates they want Manziel. Of course I want then to want Manziel enough to trade for 1-1 so...
I think that Cleveland not taking a more publicly vocal role indicates they want Manziel. Of course I want then to want Manziel enough to trade for 1-1 so...
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I don't follow the logic here at all.
You've got two choices: you can have a pick in the 6th or you can have nothing.
Having nothing because you think you should have gotten more is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Just take what you can get and get out.
In this case, that happened to be a 6th.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Yeah I know but as I stated, I would have held MS for longer & ended negotiations with Oakland; put the pressure on them. There was a third choice of waiting. We accomplished nothing significant as most 6ths don't make final roster. To me it should have been obvious that they really wanted him. Let's not forget they could have signed Fitz if they thought he was better than Matt.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Hasn't been the Texans' MO:
1 2013 6 176 David Quessenberry OL
2 2013 6 195 Alan Bonner WR
3 2013 6 198 Chris Jones DT
4 2013 6 201 Ryan Griffin TE
5 2012 6 195 Nick Mondek OL
6 2010 6 187 Shelley Smith G
7 2010 6 197 Trindon Holliday WR
8 2009 6 188 Brice McCain DB
9 2008 6 173 Dominique Barber DB
10 2007 6 183 Kasey Studdard G
11 2006 6 170 Wali Lundy RB
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Who's to say they didn't hold out and maxed out their return with Oakland.. Nobody knows how the negotiations went down. And most 6th round picks make the final roster.. How many 6th round picks have we drafted that didn't make the final roster? With all the holes we have I can guarantee you this 6th round pick will make the cut.. if this pick is used on a player and isn't packaged in a deal to move up.
The Texans were lucky to get anything for Schaub.. everybody knew he was going to be cut.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Thanks for strengthening my comment though I should have said not been of much value rather than making roster. I was thinking of the percentile of each pick dropping with each round. While I was optimistic with all of the above only Studdard & McCain played much of a role and I think Studdard's role with Kubiak helped him immensely. I am ok with a 6th rather than nothing just believe Smith caved way too soon.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Pressure should have been on Oakland unless Cleveland informed them they were not interested. True we don't know if they held out for maximum return but we don't know they did either. I can easily be wrong just seemed they wanted to move MS. Overall, I am more a fan than detractor of Smith but I think he blew this one.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
When the entire league knows you aren't going to pay a QB 10+ million dollars for a guy who you don't plan to start and who they know you'll cut anyways you don't have much bargaining power to begin with.. Smith was lucky to even get a 6th round pick, so I can't really say he blew this one.. I'd say he made chicken salad out of chicken poo regarding this situation and the position he was in.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I'd say (a) it blew your comment up and (b) you've been playing armchair GM far too much.
Can you provide a list of bloated contract marginal aging starters who have been traded for substantially more?
badboy
Hall of Fame
lol on first.
My premise was Oakland evaluated MS as a starter and we did not utilize that. Just my opinion.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Yes they saw him as a starter... which is why they actually traded a pick for him and not just waited for us to inevitably cut him. You're severely overrating Matt Schaub's trade value here. It's rare teams trade for players that they know will be cut if a trade agreement isn't reached, especially a player who has the type of cap hit Schaub had. If I was the Raiders and if Rick Smith tried to "hold out further or tried to pressure me" I would've laughed in his face and hung up the phone.
Sounds like Oakland didn't want us to cut Schaub. There's no guarantee they can get him if he hit the market, at the very least, they would have had to overpay to get him... which is the nature of FA.
By trading with us, they guarantee they get their guy at a price they're comfortable paying (though they did renegotiate his contract).
Not that I agree with badboy, just saying he's got a point. The Raiders wanted Schaub & they didn't want to wait for him to hit the market.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
Was there a bidding war for Schaub that I missed? The only way this could even possibly be a scenario is if you have somebody else who is willing to give up compensation for Schaub. Trying to strong-arm a team into giving you more picks because you suspect he will be the starter will end up with the Texans holding onto Schaub throughout the draft and then getting nothing for him because you were going to cut him by June 1st anyway (Something which the rest of the league already knew).
I agree on this. Unless McKenzie is just blowing some major smoke (& he may be) he sounds like he believes Schaub is going help his team contend for the division. He's already compared Schaub to Rivers, Manning... even Brees.
Everything else they've done signals "win now" mode.
At the same time, they negotiated an even less expensive cap number for
Schaub. So... there's that.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
According to spotrac they moved things around but their cap hit this year is still $11.7 mil.
The Raiders were bidding against the possibility of not being Schaub's 1st choice if he hit the open market. That's it.