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Blake Bortles

Lucky said:
And look at the 2 teams that passed on Ryan for "safer" linemen. The Dolphins are 44-50 since, and their #1 pick Jake Long now plays in St. Louis. The Rams took Chris Long and have a 26-64 record since 2008. Both of the Longs are good to very good players. But, they're not QBs and those teams needed QBs. Both teams have since drafted QBs in the 1st round.

You can't say that either the Dolphins or the Rams made a bust pick. Both were very solid contributors. But not the difference maker that a QB can be. LTs and DEs have very important roles. Protecting and attacking the QB. But, they're not the QB. That's why you have to find one if you need one.

Now if the Texans look at all of the scoutng reports and come to the conclusion there is not a QB in the draft that can help them win, fine. Take the best player they can find. But, they're probably wrong. Because there is usually at least one franchise QB in any draft.
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Good point. Matt Ryan has his faults - his biggest is his record in the playoffs. But he is a very solid player and one that should be able to help you win. Peyton couldn`t win in the biggest games of the playoffs for much of his career and still "only" one ring. I bet both these teams would trade their picks that year plus the QB they have taken since for Matt Ryan. They tried to do the smart thing and it backfired.

Of course it always comes down to "do I believe in that player" - if the answer is yes, you should take him. Even if you believe other players are more worthy of the number 1 pick. Trade down if you are confident you can still get them later. But don`t assume, you should be getting a more talented guy that skill is worth the number 1 pick. If there is a QB you like, you take him. If you are wrong, your team will suck and you will get to try again pretty soon. If you hit, you can turn your franchise around.
 
Lucky said:
And look at the 2 teams that passed on Ryan for "safer" linemen. The Dolphins are 44-50 since, and their #1 pick Jake Long now plays in St. Louis. The Rams took Chris Long and have a 26-64 record since 2008. Both of the Longs are good to very good players. But, they're not QBs and those teams needed QBs. Both teams have since drafted QBs in the 1st round.

You can't say that either the Dolphins or the Rams made a bust pick. Both were very solid contributors. But not the difference maker that a QB can be. LTs and DEs have very important roles. Protecting and attacking the QB. But, they're not the QB. That's why you have to find one if you need one.

Now if the Texans look at all of the scoutng reports and come to the conclusion there is not a QB in the draft that can help them win, fine. Take the best player they can find. But, they're probably wrong. Because there is usually at least one franchise QB in any draft.
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Can't disagree with anything here bud.


And that's why I say that this is a very tough draft for O'Brien. This pick could make or break his future here when you think about it. All 3 QB's are good in certain ways. I'd probably take one of them and my pick would most likely be Bortles.
 
matts290 said:
...You can't win in the league consistently without at least an above average QB. We have nobody on the roster that fits that description, and there is nobody in FA that does either. Matt Cassel is not a good QB, I couldn't care less if him and O'Brien were telepathically connected, signing him to be our starter in 2014 is not a formula for winning...
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Matt Flynn is on the market and has a career QB rating of 88.3
 
Lucky said:
And look at the 2 teams that passed on Ryan for "safer" linemen. The Dolphins are 44-50 since, and their #1 pick Jake Long now plays in St. Louis. The Rams took Chris Long and have a 26-64 record since 2008. Both of the Longs are good to very good players. But, they're not QBs and those teams needed QBs. Both teams have since drafted QBs in the 1st round.

You can't say that either the Dolphins or the Rams made a bust pick. Both were very solid contributors.
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How many coaches & regime changes have the Dolphins & Rams been through since then? The Rams have one a first round QB & has since 2010. The Dolphins took theirs in 2012 & neither QB has helped them improve their "status"

If Mike Smith had gone to the Rams in 2008, that club would be much farther along than had they drafted Matt Ryan in 2008.

They probably would have drafted Ryan, but that's not the point.
 
infantrycak said:
A "safe" list would have to include Mosley IMO ...
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There are injury concerns with Mosley. Don't know more than just that, but it came up at the Combine. Quick Google shows he had a dislocated hip in 2012, but I don't know of any other injuries he may/may not have had.
 
Number19 said:
Matt Flynn is on the market and has a career QB rating of 88.3
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But he's only really been successful in the Green Bay system.

I'm not going to get too down on him for not being able to keep Russell Wilson off the field but to not be able to dominate the Oakland Raider QB situation and set himself up as a starter there is really an indictment against him. He's not someone I'm going to be in a rush to acquire.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
But he's only really been successful in the Green Bay system.

I'm not going to get too down on him for not being able to keep Russell Wilson off the field but to not be able to dominate the Oakland Raider QB situation and set himself up as a starter there is really an indictment against him. He's not someone I'm going to be in a rush to acquire.
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But what I'm describing is not necessarily a permanent "fix" at QB. What this scenario is aiming for is a veteran QB which has at least average - maybe a tad higher - skills that can quarterback the team to 8 or 9 wins next season, giving OB the opportunity to elevate the overall talent through the draft this season. This is why we should only be looking at a two year contract. If Keenum or (edit) Yates do not pan out as either starter or backup, then we still have Flynn as backup for one more year as we groom a quarterback prospect we take in next years draft.

The question I'm directly answering is that there is no FA this year which has even "average" talent. A veteran QB who has a career rating of 88.3 (edit: or even 80) certainly has "average" skills, if not the skill level you'd want for your "franchise" QB.

(edit) As I expressed in another thread, I'm willing to take one particular "veteran" QB who has a QB rating of "zero". This is Ryan Mallet, but I wouldn't give up #33. I'd give up #65. What changed my mind was the John Harris interview where he explained, "...The biggest thing as it pertains to a QB is the time it’ll take to pick up the new offensive system. Bill O’Brien absolutely without question does not want to wait for a QB to “get” his system...".

Mallet knows the system.
 
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Number19 said:
If Keenum or Tate do not pan out as either starter or backup, then we still have Flynn as backup for one more year as we groom a quarterback prospect we take in next years draft.
.
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Tate May think he is a franchise RB but I think you're the only one who thinks he can be a decent QB.
 
ESPN Draft Day preview of Blake Bortles' segment, Jordan Palmer and other team Bortles advisers are captured saying, "You stand right next to Johnny as muuuch as you can."

Then one says "5 1 1, man that's the worst thing, man." ... :

I've got people telling me 'you're crazy, he's 6'1"'... I'm telling people he's five eleven," Palmer.

:lol:
 
Scariest thing about Bortles is that every single assessment of him starts with his size. The first thing you should think of with a 1st round prospect is his skills. Size should be a bonus.
 
bah007 said:
Scariest thing about Bortles is that every single assessment of him starts with his size. The first thing you should think of with a 1st round prospect is his skills. Size should be a bonus.
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this. if both Manziel and Teddy were 6'5, what would be Bortles' claim to be the #1 pick instead of the other two?
 
matts290 said:
Yeah Manziel never had any of those :rolleyes:
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I never said he didn't. In fact, I have said next to Bortles, Manziel has had similar performances, just not as many as Bortles. Manziel & The Peach Bowl was an amazing performance. The difference is Manziel was exposed twice by the LSU Defense and once by Mizzou.
 
Texian said:
I never said he didn't. In fact, I have said next to Bortles, Manziel has had similar performances. The Peach Bowl was an amazing performance. The difference is Manziel was exposed twice by the LSU Defense and once by Mizzou.
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And Bortles was "exposed" by Memphis.
 
Trap_Star said:
this. if both Manziel and Teddy were 6'5, what would be Bortles' claim to be the #1 pick instead of the other two?
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But Manziel isn't. And Manziel's arm isn't the typical prolific arm you see in a top flight NFL passer either. Sure, he wrapped up a ton of stats in college, but he flings it around and doesn't have great mechanics either. I love watching the guy and wouldn't be ticked if we took Manziel. He is so exciting in every game. I just don't think he'll stay upright with his style of play. He doesn't like to stay in the pocket and make his reads. He likes to roll out and get out of the pocket when he doesn't always need to and that's not a great habit either. He can improve and get better in his pocket presence I'm sure though. That is a problem Vick has had his entire career though and Vick still hasn't gotten over that. Like Vick, Manziel has that same habit and he loves to throw on the run. Throwing on the run is a great skill, but he needs to get better as a pocket passer that steps into his throw in an over hand motion instead of that little fling pass he likes to do. And with Manziel always scrambling to the outside he makes himself vulnerable for getting his from the blind side. That is why Vick is always getting hurt and compiling tons of fumbles every year.
 
Trap_Star said:
this. if both Manziel and Teddy were 6'5, what would be Bortles' claim to be the #1 pick instead of the other two?
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PapaL said:
That he single handily beat beat BOb's PSU team and BOb saw him first hand hahaha
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That makes me worry more about O'Brien than it does to impress me about Bortles.
But then O'Brien isn't running our defense.... so there's that.
:fingergun:
 
stingray said:
Just saw Bortles tape against Ohio State in 2012... He was pretty bad.
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It was his 2nd College start and it was in Columbus OH. I'm not sure what you were expecting? He did seem to learn from his experience and made rapid improvements. Imagine how good Bortles would be if had been a 3 year starter this year like Teddy.


Honoring Earl 34 said:
That's before Texian took over .
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Thank You! Thank You very much!
 
I didn't realize Bortles was working with Jordan Palmer. That kind of makes me chuckle a little. I've heard some funny stories spread around within scouting circles about him.
 
Texecutioner said:
But Manziel isn't. And Manziel's arm isn't the typical prolific arm you see in a top flight NFL passer either. Sure, he wrapped up a ton of stats in college, but he flings it around and doesn't have great mechanics either. I love watching the guy and wouldn't be ticked if we took Manziel. He is so exciting in every game. I just don't think he'll stay upright with his style of play. He doesn't like to stay in the pocket and make his reads. He likes to roll out and get out of the pocket when he doesn't always need to and that's not a great habit either. He can improve and get better in his pocket presence I'm sure though. That is a problem Vick has had his entire career though and Vick still hasn't gotten over that. Like Vick, Manziel has that same habit and he loves to throw on the run. Throwing on the run is a great skill, but he needs to get better as a pocket passer that steps into his throw in an over hand motion instead of that little fling pass he likes to do. And with Manziel always scrambling to the outside he makes himself vulnerable for getting his from the blind side. That is why Vick is always getting hurt and compiling tons of fumbles every year.
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Do you know why both JM/Vjck both roll out of the pocket when they sometimes don't have too? To see, because they're both short.
 
steelbtexan said:
Do you know why both JM/Vjck both roll out of the pocket when they sometimes don't have too? To see, because they're both short.
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Its really only a problem on short drops....... On deep drops its a non-issue which is why you see Brees 8-10 yards behind the LOS, and when Vick was his most successful he was throwing darts 8-10 yards behind the LOS. Tall QBs have a huge advantage under the center when it comes to short drops, but otherwise its equalized because you're throwing through passing lanes or throwing deep passes.
 
Trap_Star said:
there goes Texian bringing up Teddy's name again for no reason.


THOU SHALT NOT SPEAK POSITIVELY ABOUT ANY QB BUT BORTLES OR THEY WILL SMITE THEE
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PapaL said:
Piecing these two statement together, does that mean what I think it means?
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Except that positive comments were also made about Johnny Manziel so that makes Trap Star's comments null & void. Teddybots are a little feisty this morning.
 
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ObsiWan said:
Drew Brees seems to make that rollout thing work just fine.
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With a good coach, it can happen. If you draft Manziel (or happen to have a Case Keenum on your roster) you have to make it part of your game plan.
 
Texn4life said:
I didn't realize Bortles was working with Jordan Palmer. That kind of makes me chuckle a little. I've heard some funny stories spread around within scouting circles about him.
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Do tell... ?

Palmer just signed with the Bears, so he'll be doing his own workouts.
 
Texn4life said:
I didn't realize Bortles was working with Jordan Palmer. That kind of makes me chuckle a little. I've heard some funny stories spread around within scouting circles about him.
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I recall someone ridiculing Teddy B. on this board for working with Chris Weinke? Hmm.:thinking:
 
Texian said:
Except that positive comments were also made about Johnny Manziel so that makes Trap Star's comments null & void. Teddybots are a little feisty this morning.
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So because I prefer Clowney at #1 I'm a Teddybot? The Captain Save A Hoe in you runs deep for Bortles huh?

captain_save_a_hoe_shirt-r276a023f73b346fea56e8bbc97f47ba7_804gs_512.jpg


*Now Featuring Texian and Blake Bortles.
 
Playoffs said:
Do tell... ?

Palmer just signed with the Bears, so he'll be doing his own workouts.
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I'm not a Palmer follower, but noticed him working with Bortles on the Sportscenter piece last night prepping for the combine. Its just funny that he's even in the NFL because he was a terrible COLLEGE QB.

stingray said:
I recall someone ridiculing Teddy B. on this board for working with Chris Weinke? Hmm.:thinking:
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I have no clue who that could be, but its not a big deal. Plenty of terrible pro QBs are good teachers/coaches.
 
Texn4life said:
I'm not a Palmer follower, but noticed him working with Bortles on the Sportscenter piece last night prepping for the combine. Its just funny that he's even in the NFL because he was a terrible COLLEGE QB.



I have no clue who that could be, but its not a big deal. Plenty of terrible pro QBs are good teachers/coaches.
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I agree...just pointing out the hypocrisy.
 
matts290 said:
This mentality is just what I don't get....Nope, sorry, doesn't work like that.
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Good stuff bro. Everyone here wants to recreate the Cleveland Browns as if they aren't the most disappointing franchise and fan base of all time.

LikeMike said:
Of course nobody knows how these QBs will turn out. You could argue to know their floors and ceiling, but even that is not acurate. Bridgewater could be Aaron Rodgers with a slightly less strong arm but better feet. Bortles could be Luck. Manziell could be Wilson with more of an x-factor. At the same time Bridgewater could be Alex Smith, Bortles could be Gabbert and Manziel could be an injury prone Locker.
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You said it great right here. Good stuff. Everyone wants to be a soothsayer and predict failure for all QBs in this draft because that is the popular opinion right now, but it's a wack way of thinking. People got spoiled on Andrew Luck and want to see that every year then bring up Gabbert when they don't.

Although it seems that everyone from that distant time period of 2011 is now dead and gone cause no one remembers that Gabbert was supposed to be the QB of that draft and nearly every board had him higher than Cam, but now looking back everyone acts like Cam had ZERO flaws and was an unquestioned #1.

Cam was rated lower than 2 of the top 3 QBs in this draft and this draft is deeper and stronger (on paper). These QBs MIGHT be terrible, but I'd be willing to bet they aren't and don't be surprised if you see NFL teams betting on it too. But you never know, maybe Andrew Luck will re-enter the 2015 NFL draft and slips to us at #9ish.
 
Number19 said:
At the top of most draft boards, there are maybe 5 players who are considered top notch talent but also "safe" - Clowney, Robinson, Mack, Mathews and Watkins.

You sign a veteran FA quarterback, someone like Kellen Clemens or Matt Flynn, to a 2 year contract, you bring Yates and Keenum into camp, and you draft a QB in the back half of the draft.

Evaluating our OL, we seem to be solid with one exception at RT, which can be addressed in the mid-rounds. Evaluating our receivers, we have a solid core to go into training camp with.

At 1-1 you pick either Clowney or Mack.
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This is a good strategy... to go 7-9 for the next 4 years. (Just my opinion)

Number19 said:
"Safe" in the context of having the talent worthy of the first selection. In this light, I haven't seen Mosley in the top 5 on any of the major big boards or discussed as a potential 1-1 selection. If discussing from the angle of character, you can subtract Clowney. The Texans should take Mack with 1-1, which is my position.
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I disagree. Safe is an arbitrary word used on this board to try to quantify a person's opinion.

You think Clowney is safe, I think he's far from it. I think TB is safe, you might think he doesn't belong in a uniform.

Number19 said:
Mallet knows the system.
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You say this with such conviction. Where has this once been demonstrated? Let's not even focus on the fact that BOB has been away from Ryan the last 2 years...
 
TexansFTW said:
You said it great right here. Good stuff. Everyone wants to be a soothsayer and predict failure for all QBs in this draft because that is the popular opinion right now, but it's a wack way of thinking. People got spoiled on Andrew Luck and want to see that every year then bring up Gabbert when they don't.
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Personally, I don't expect all of these guys to fail. I think there are going to be 3 maybe 4 starters come out of this class... I just don't think it's a sure thing, that it's going to be any one of the top 3.

To me, it's not worth using the #1 overall on. If we were picking out of the top 10, with our current need at QB... I'd take one of the top 3, any one of them & be happy.

TexansFTW said:
Cam was rated lower than 2 of the top 3 QBs in this draft and this draft is deeper and stronger (on paper). These QBs MIGHT be terrible, but I'd be willing to bet they aren't and don't be surprised if you see NFL teams betting on it too. But you never know, maybe Andrew Luck will re-enter the 2015 NFL draft and slips to us at #9ish.
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First, the book isn't closed on Cam. He made the play-offs...... woo-hoo.

2nd, it's not that he's throwing it & working from the pocket better than anyone thought he would.... same with Wilson. It's doing the things they say Manziel won't be able to do that keeps them in the conversation.

Yes, their passing numbers are great... but it's the threat of their legs that opens up the passing game for them. & we all "know" Bridgewater won't be that guy.

I'm looking at 10 players in this draft that I think have better odds to be successful in the NFL than any one of the top 3... then I see 3 or 4 QBs that will be available at 2-1 with just as good a chance to be successful as the top 3.

No way I use that #1 pick on one of these QBs.

Just for reference, how do you rank the top three vs Joe Flacco coming out of college.
 
thunderkyss said:
Personally, I don't expect all of these guys to fail...

No way I use that #1 pick on one of these QBs.

Just for reference, how do you rank the top three vs Joe Flacco coming out of college.
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That's cool. To each their own. We will see come draft day. We disagree, but I respect the line you draw and stand behind it instead of swaying.

I always liked Flacco, but I understood why we traded away the pick to draft him cause we just inked that loser to a 6 year deal...

But for me to sit here and give you a straight answer on how I felt about him would be me pulling it out of thin air. I didn't pay attention nearly to the level I do now and my opinion of QBs has since changed. Back then I wanted Rocket Arms, 6'5+, and poise in the pocket.

Now I still love height, but I can live without it if you have great feet (not scrambling feet, but pocket manipulating feet like Brees, Rodgers, and Big Ben to an extent). Poise is still the biggest thing to me. You can't get spooked by imaginary pressure cause you got lit up 3 plays before. You gotta stand tall and deliver the pass. More than anything though you gotta get the ball to your play makers. I HATE running QBs, always have.

There is a quote I once heard that I will likely butcher, but it goes something like " There are always a lot of young running quarterbacks that enter the league, but you rarely see any of them grow old in it ".

Bortles isn't the most accurate, but he delivers strong in just about every other category that I've always been down on which is why I would love him to be a Texan (2nd choice obviously though).

BTW, you and Texecutioner are crazy, Mike Smith is a HORRIBLE NFL head coach. Ask any Falcons fan. They've been saying the same things about Mike Smith that we were saying about Kubiak for years, difference is Mike Smith has had more talent to stay his execution date.... so far.
 
Number19 said:
I still think a trade down scenario is ideal, it's just that I've come around to thinking it won't materialize. If the Browns were to trade up, who do you think the new GM and HC would be targeting. What I've heard is that they might take a non-QB at 1-4 and then take Carr at 1-26; or take whatever QB falls to them at 1-4.
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My long term opinion was recently reinforced by ESPN or NFL analyst agreeing that Browns need to make huge steerage change & need a face of the team. A QB that has Manziel's skills + his ability to motivate teammates (who can forget him following Mike Evans on side line and getting in Evan's face?) will not only rally fans but bring tons of PR with national exposure from the minute JM is drafted. Cleveland has drafted with great risk before so not scary for them. I do not see Carr that far down (#26). Do they risk Texans taking TB 1-1 or trading to another team needing a QB? I think for Cleveland, Manziel is the bright shiny lure before the hungry bass. I just hope our fisher know how to dangle the bait, set the hook and patience to reel in the right deal.

Another thought is a deal with Vikings, Jacksonville or Oakland could offer more significant picks that #4 & 26. :smiliedance:
 
badboy said:
I do not see Carr that far down (#26). Do they risk Texans taking TB 1-1 or trading to another team needing a QB? I think for Cleveland, Manziel is the bright shiny lure before the hungry bass. I just hope our fisher know how to dangle the bait, set the hook and patience to reel in the right deal.

Another thought is a deal with Vikings, Jacksonville or Oakland could offer more significant picks that #4 & 26. :smiliedance:
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Just FYI, almost every message board I've looked at wants to trade down. This includes Atlanta at #6. Won't happen.

PapaL said:
That he single handily beat beat BOb's PSU team and BOb saw him first hand hahaha
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Single handily? I'd be willing to bet that he actually used both hands and he had help from his team. I would also be willing to bet this is not the correct word choice...

I'm just teasing, I know what you were saying.
 
TexansFTW said:
Just FYI, almost every message board I've looked at wants to trade down. This includes Atlanta at #6. Won't happen.



Single handily? I'd be willing to bet that he actually used both hands and he had help from his team. I would also be willing to bet this is not the correct word choice...

I'm just teasing, I know what you were saying.
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Sure all teams want to trade down& get more players but few do. I think teams needing QB in top 10 will be interested in trading up. Watkins & Clowney could also receive offers.
 
TexansFTW said:
But for me to sit here and give you a straight answer on how I felt about him would be me pulling it out of thin air. I didn't pay attention nearly to the level I do now and my opinion of QBs has since changed. Back then I wanted Rocket Arms, 6'5+, and poise in the pocket.
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Well... that's Flacco. That's still the guy I prefer, that's still the guy "prototypical" refers to & I believe that's the guy O'Brien is looking for. Neither Bortles or Bridgewater are any closer to that "mold" than Flacco. That's where Ponder/Gabbert/Newton/etc... should have been drafted. Mid 1st. That's where Bridgewater & Bortles should be drafted...

again imo.

Also understand, that I don't like Flacco. I think he fits the mold, but don't think he's been a very good QB outside the play-offs (not taking anything away from him, just saying).

Bridgewater may be more poised than Flacco, but he's lacking in height & arm strength. Bortles may be as poised (as Flacco), but he's lacking arm strength.

Too much talent at the top of this draft to take these QBs in the top 10.
 
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